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[JackFrost2012]

My anger at this blatant clone has brought me back from the dead!!

I posted too:
http://www.frogtoss.com/forums/just-cause-you-say-something-doesnt-mean-its-so-vt33.html

JPG backup in case its deleted:
http://www.yukihime.com/board/frogtoss-post.jpg

He seems to be using the "saying something untrue over and over will make it true" method of debate. What a stupid wanker. I look forward to him being ruined.

EDIT: aaand, I'm banned and the post deleted.

 

[FallenOne666]

sludge
Site Admin


Joined: 08 Sep 2003
Posts: 23
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 5:02 am Post subject: Re: You must be kidding me... Take 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sigh. I'll bite.

Verticube is not a Lumines clone by my definition. Clones are duplicates of the original. If I recreated all the themes, timed the clear bar and added similar modes of play, it would be a duplicate game, as close as any Open Source project has come to cloning anything.

At that point, a Verticube player could walk into a Lumines bar, sit down on a stool and order a drink, and start talking about the games with the other patrons as if they're interchangable without actually needing to know what's different.

In case you think my definition of clone is off the wall, take a look at all the people who claim Linux ISN'T a Unix clone. They cite things such as Posix compliance for reasons why it isn't. One of the original software authors is GNU which stands for "GNU's Not Unix".

At any rate, people who can afford Lumines and/or a PSP probably have no interest in this game. I'm afraid I don't have anything for them at this time. However, my mother doesn't have $300 for a PSP and a copy of Lumines, so but she's happily playing Verticube.

Not a clone, but a similar game which she has enjoyed.

If you can afford Lumines, buy it. I did, and I play it every day. If you can't, you may opt to go with Verticube instead of nothing at all.

Hope that clarifies our position.
_________________
Michael Labbe
Frogtoss Games

His reply to John's post. Why aren't GAFers flooding his board yet?!

 

[john tv]

I don't recommend flooding his board or anything like that. But I do hope that if enough people complain, he might reconsider what he's doing and put a stop to it before he has a dozen or so French lawyers breathing down his neck. He sounds like a guy who knows next-to-nothing about the legality of this sort of thing and is just trying to make a little money off his pet project. He probably just needs a good dose of reality.

 

[Spencerr]

His reply to John's post. Why aren't GAFers flooding his board yet?!

We're too busy playing this highly original and exciting game called Verticube! :lol

 

[golduck342]

Wouldn't it have been easier if he had just let his mother borrow his PSP?

 

[duckroll]

I just played the demo enough to loop both skins and man.... this is a terrible *cough*port*cough*. Seriously, if Lumines was anything like this, I wouldn't pay 5 bucks for it. He can't even capture the feel right and he wants to charge 20 fucking bucks for stealing someone else's idea badly? Someone needs to post this in Mizuguchi's blog.

 

[Flo_Evans]

This guy is going down, and I am going to the store to get lumines^^

I was always going to pick it up eventually, but this 'demo' made me realize I need it now.

EDIT: stupid hands do not type what the brain thinks!

 

[Lord Error]

Haha, tried it and yeah this is such a blatant rip-off, and a pretty crappy one at that. Skins and effects looks downright shitty, music is cheezy, and even block moving and gameplay feels clunky in comparision to the original. Making things like this is fine when they are freeware (I think), but charging money for it is unfair to say the least, if not illegal.

 

[Rahul]

This guy is co-owner/technical lead at ThreeWave Software, which seems to be an outsourcing company that assists on multiplayer aspects of FPS games like Doom III and Jedi Knight II.

On top of that, check out this description from TechVibes:

Frogtoss is an independent gaming studio that builds in-demand, high quality games for the casual market. We recently released our first title, Verticube. It is a Lumines Clone for the PC.

*cough*

Also, this Doom 3 Resurrection of Evil interview:

Another blast from the past comes in the multiplayer options. Threewave Software, the team responsible for the original capture-the-flag game style in Quake, is doing the same for Doom 3. It'll come with four new multiplayer maps, and a raised player limit from 4 to 8, but there will be no cooperative play -- "We're saving it for the Xbox version," Hooper commented.

Oh, and guess what? Threewave and Frogtoss inhabit the same studio! Gee.

 

[carbonbased]

I just wanted to add that using Baghdad Bob in the first post was absoutely perfect. :lol

 

[Tain]

This guy is co-owner/technical lead at ThreeWave Software, which seems to be an outsourcing company that assists on multiplayer aspects of FPS games like Doom III and Jedi Knight II.

...

;_;

Threewave Quake 3 is one of the greatest mods/games to ever grace the planet Earth.

;_;

 

[ZeMMiK]

After installing Verticube do you also have a lot of adware and spyware on your PC?? It seems that my PC is totally infected after I installed it...

 

[Koshiro]

HAH, he changed the name to Illuminati now. Is this some sort of joke?

 

[aoi tsuki]

After installing Verticube do you also have a lot of adware and spyware on your PC?? It seems that my PC is totally infected after I installed it...

http://www.frogtoss.com/forums/verticube-and-avg-reporting-a-trojan-downloaderagent12af-vt24.html

HAH, he changed the name to Illuminati now. Is this some sort of joke?

Wait, i thought that was a different Lumines clone by developer Ninja Software. If the new name becomes Luminrez i'll wet myself from laughter.

 

[Jonnyram]

All these direct links to Frogtoss board posts are just redirecting to the Ninja Software site to me, so it looks like Illuminati was just the old version of Verticube.

 

[john tv]

Haha. I think he couldn't take the heat from TEH POWER OF GAF so he changed some stuff up. But the site is still there, as are the forums (sans my post, of course):

http://www.frogtoss.com/

Post away!

 

[M3wThr33]

Illuminati is crap. The demo ends after 5 minutes and there's no skin changes, just generic techno and a visulization in the background.

 

[demi]

The goal of this software is to provide an alternative for people who can't afford to buy Lumines or would like to give a game on mother's day. If you have a PSP, Buy Lumines.

My mom is epileptic

 

[aoi tsuki]

Frogtoss redirects to Ninja Software now. :lol

http://www.frogtoss.com/forums/index.php

And Illuminati gave me a DOS puzzle game vibe, down to the electronic music MOD soundtrack, and overused special effects. None of it is good or even worth mentioning compared to Lumines, but at least the game is actually playable on my computer, unlike Verticube.

This modernized Tetris-like game boasts its share of positives, but we also must note a few of its downsides. As in Tetris, your goal in Illuminati is to rotate falling bricks to form color combos and remove groups of blocks from the board. However, we could never ascertain how many blocks you need to line up or what formations they must be in to disappear. And since we couldn't find any help files (even on the developer's site) gameplay remains somewhat of a mystery. We also wish the program had a larger feature set; as it stands, you only can choose to play in windowed mode. Illuminati's design is probably its strongest point. The music has obviously been professionally produced, and the colorful, space-age visualizations behind the actual puzzle grid are aesthetically pleasing. Howver, we would appreciate a more generous trial restriction than this one-level, 10-minutes-per-session demo provides. Illuminati certainly shows promise, but we hope the developer hammers out some of the issues we mentioned.

Bah, help files are for people who haven't played Lumines!

Version: 1.0
Very addictive game
08-Feb-2005 09:48:09 AM
Reviewer: blue277
Pros: I like the attention to details, like small sparks, explosions, light effects.. Way ahead of any other PC puzzle game I have seen when it comes to the visuals. And, the game is simply very entertaining, despite it's simplicity..
Cons: Too addictive, I have spent too much time on it...

i can relate; i spent ten minutes too many on it myself. :/

 

[john tv]

Frogtoss redirects to Ninja Software now. :lol

No, it seems only outside links take you to Ninja Software. Try typing in the URL yourself to get to Frogtoss. Seems like they're running scared (and rightfully so).

 

[Koshiro]

No, it seems only outside links take you to Ninja Software. Try typing in the URL yourself to get to Frogtoss. Seems like they're running scared (and rightfully so).

It's true, hahaha, poor guy doesn't know who he's messing with when it comes to GAF.

 

[Mihail]

Holy crap. You guys are worse than the Nintendo narcs that are so proud of calling in those mall vendors. I think piracy is bad for the industry and I certainly don't condone it, but if you honestly think this is going to have an effect on Lumines sales, you're way off. And if you don't, you're just a whiny bitch.

 

[JackFrost2012]

Holy crap. You guys are worse than the Nintendo narcs that are so proud of calling in those mall vendors. I think piracy is bad for the industry and I certainly don't condone it, but if you honestly think this is going to have an effect on Lumines sales, you're way off. And if you don't, you're just a whiny bitch.

GAF has long since taught me that game sales are directly indicative of quality, but this is the first I've ever heard that game sales can resolve legal matters, too.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Holy crap. You guys are worse than the Nintendo narcs that are so proud of calling in those mall vendors. I think piracy is bad for the industry and I certainly don't condone it, but if you honestly think this is going to have an effect on Lumines sales, you're way off. And if you don't, you're just a whiny bitch.

:lol :lol :lol
that reminds me, i wonder if i should call in the vendors in the atlantic terminal mall...

 

[Late Stage Marxist]

I haven't played Lumines, but after playing this I don't see how it's different than any number of other Tetris clones.

 

[Culex]

I don't think I'd have a problem with this if it were feeware, but charging people for a blatent (and terrible) Lumines ripp-off is criminal.

I doubt anything will happen, though...can't see them actually being sued.

 

[Mihail]

GAF has long since taught me that game sales are directly indicative of quality, but this is the first I've ever heard that game sales can resolve legal matters, too.

Legal matters are a matter of technicality, not emotion, as many of you seem to be expressing. This is not a case of legality but a case of who the eich ee double hockey sticks cares?

 

[sprsk]

no one sued the snood people, did they?

 

[JackFrost2012]

Legal matters are a matter of technicality, not emotion, as many of you seem to be expressing. This is not a case of legality but a case of who the eich ee double hockey sticks cares?

In case you didn't know, a number of posters in this thread know Mizuguchi personally.

In any case, there's a thin line between cloning and copying, and this just copies without adding or introducing anything of its own. Except suckiness.

The answer to who cares is: a lot of people in this thread, obviously. You don't; have a cookie.

 

[Koshiro]

GAF has long since taught me that game sales are directly indicative of quality, but this is the first I've ever heard that game sales can resolve legal matters, too.

:lol :lol :lol

If this guy was giving the game away, I doubt anyone would be so bothered on here, but charging for qhat is basically someone else's work is criminal, and is definitely breaking copyright.

 

[Wario64]

you know, i'm happy and sad at the same time about this lumines clone. happy cause mizuguchi has made such an awesome game that someone is actually ripping it off, and sad because someone is trying to make a quick buck off his idea

 

[border]

Is this all Lumines is? It doesn't seem that great.

I'm wondering just how successfully one could litigate this case. Does copyright cover the actual gameplay?

 

[Mister Zimbu]

no one sued the snood people, did they?

Thank you.

I knew that people remaking games and charging for them is something that happens incredibly often in the gaming industry, but couldn't put my finger on any (Non korean/hk) examples.

You guys are blowing this completely out of proportion. If this was based on a different game and not your precious Lumines, you wouldn't be in nearly as big of an uproar.

Hell, wasn't Zoo Keeper regarded as the second coming of christ on this forum?