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[i-Lo]

Absurd happens all the time. I bet on someone making shit, at least a couple times, with these new systems.

But also remember I am not saying its NOT absurd. I agree 100%.

It will be our duty, yours and mine, to destroy them with this occurs

I get your point. However, this was supposed to be a HD gen. And HD categorically starts at 720p. This generation of consoles have achieved visuals that with the respected specs, even in closed box seem nearly miraculous. However, there were obvious and not so obvious trade offs. Resolution drops, say to around, 640p weren't detrimental to sales especially with proper AA. Heck, Halo 3 didn't even that (my eyes felt like they were being cut by serrated knives) and it sold millions of copies. But majority of the developers didn't make it a habit of it. It's the same next gen except with 1080p. There'll be games with variable resolution with 1080p horizontal lines of resolution but different vertical ones. And in the twilight years when things are pushed to max to keep the visuals of consoles relevant, 720p would be looked upon as the last resort but no less given it's the second generation of HD console.

Still, even if there is a 0.0001% probability, negligible as it may in practice, it exists in absolute objectivity. I personally don't see any game dropping below 720p for the entire duration of next gen.

 

[Karak]

Still, even if there is a 0.0001% probability, negligible as it may in practice, it exists in absolute objectivity. I personally don't see any game dropping below 720p for the entire duration of next gen.

That a game won't drop below 720p? True 720p. Ok. I will make that bet with you. Both of us hoping I am wrong

 

[Ashes]

Nice bet.

 

[rdrr gnr]

i-Lo's argument is similar to mine. Maybe not true 720p -- we might get some weirdos like BF3's resolution on current consoles. But those games will in fact be in the .0001%. And, again, dipping below 30fps will be as common as it is today.

 

[systemfehler]

I want to make a bet too. I am going to sleep now - and 8 hours later we still don't know any hardware details for a fact about Orbis nor Durango. Please someone prove me wrong...

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

If I see another 680p or any borked up resolution, I'll be very pissed.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Still, even if there is a 0.0001% probability, negligible as it may in practice, it exists in absolute objectivity. I personally don't see any game dropping below 720p for the entire duration of next gen.

i'm with you, i doubt we're gonna get any game below 1280*720 next-generation. i mean, we already had a lot of those this generation, but with even more powerful hardware i think that 720p as a minimum resolution is a lock.

 

[seattle6418]

I don't know if i should place a bet, but i'm still waiting on the magic special super duper secret sauce that Durango has to exceed Orbis.

Why am i saying this?

Let's pick up the most credible rumors out there that gives us the following specs:

Orbis

4 cores clocked at 3.2ghz
4 GB of RAM at 192mb/s
GPU unit capable of 1.84 TF

Against

8 cores clocked at 1.6ghz
8 GB of RAM at 68m/s
GPU unit capable of 1.30 TF

So all three of those specs clearly favor Orbis, but still, the impression that everyone in the american boards have is that Durango is a bit better than Orbis. I know "both will be good, port buddies, bla bla bla".

I know, but it's clear that everybody in these forums expect Durango to outperform Orbis and i just don't see how.

The hardcore market is there for Sony for their taking. The only chance they miss out on this is if they go nuts on trojan horses and useless things, like 3D and 4K. Unfortunately, it appears that they do, but Microsoft is giving all the clues you can hope for saying that they are going for the living room, which makes me question just how much of a hardcore machine they will make.

Kinect, glasses, Windows 8, streaming services, home automation, it's just too many stuff getting in their way. I don't see them doing all of this AND being the system of choice for hardcore gamers.

The specs we know only make this even more difficult.

I don't know, this is a random rant, but it surprises me the amount of people expecting a stronger system from Microsoft just because they are rich, when all signs point them going for living room owning crap.

Let's wait and see, but in my mind the meltdowns will be if people find out that Durango doesn't stomp Orbis like they once thought.

 

[Lord Error]

So all three of those specs clearly favor Orbis, but still, the impression that everyone in the american boards have is that Durango is a bit better than Orbis. I know "both will be good, port buddies, bla bla bla".

I know, but it's clear that everybody in these forums expect Durango to outperform Orbis and i just don't see how.

Durango is supposed to have some blocks of more or less fixed function hardware that would do specific things really well, apparently. It's a bit of a strange approach in my opinion, but it's an interesting way to differentiate.

 

[i-Lo]

With all that talk in the thread about Xbox GPU and how 1.2TF isn't an accurate measure of performance not only because of the unused theoritical performance of GPUs on PC but also due to certain custom blocks that MS may have implemented to produce results that exceed expectations for the 1.2TF GPU.

Now, in the same vein, while the PS4's GPU is rumoured to have theoretical performance of 1.8TF, will it also be customised with some form "secret sauce" that'll allow to perform beyond what is expected from its theoretical limit?

That a game won't drop below 720p? True 720p. Ok. I will make that bet with you. Both of us hoping I am wrong

Indeed 1280x720.

Fine, I'll bet on this with you. Regardless who wins, I am certain we both want to see the existence of titles with true 720p resolution and above. Pertaining to that, Sony's first parties, some of which are nearly peerless when it comes to producing most beautiful visuals such as GoW3, UC3, TLoU, iirc, didn't go below 720p this gen.

 

[nasos_333]

I dont see how PS4 will have a GPU that barely performs better than xbox 360 one

The A10 rumor is silly at best

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Durango is supposed to have some blocks of more or less fixed function hardware that would do specific things really well, apparently. It's a bit of a strange approach in my opinion, but it's an interesting way to differentiate.

That's a really, really strange approach, especially considering MS and ATi pioneered USA with Xenos. Making the new Xbox Saturn-like in hardware architecture makes no sense at all to me. I'm especially wondering what sort of fixed function hardware they had in mind that can make it on par with PS4 and its GPU which seems to have 50% more raw power.

 

[nasos_333]

Let's pick up the most credible rumors out there that gives us the following specs:

Orbis

4 cores clocked at 3.2ghz
4 GB of RAM at 192mb/s
GPU unit capable of 1.84 TF

Against

8 cores clocked at 1.6ghz
8 GB of RAM at 68m/s
GPU unit capable of 1.30 TF

I have not seen any rumor about the exact power of the systems in TFlops

Do you have the links that state both these numbers ?

As for thinking 720 will outperform PS4, it is because a 8800 GPU is miles ahead of the A10 GPU

8800 is the next top end line of GPUs from AMD, while the A10 has a GPU that barely outperforms Xenos on xbox 360

Also 720 is supposed to have more ram

 

[shadowsdarknes]

With all that talk in the thread about Xbox GPU and how 1.2TF isn't an accurate measure of performance not only because of the unused theoritical performance of GPUs on PC but also due to certain custom blocks that MS may have implemented to produce results that exceed expectations for the 1.2TF GPU.

Now, in the same vein, while the PS4's GPU is rumoured to have theoretical performance of 1.8TF, will it also be customised with some form "secret sauce" that'll allow to perform beyond what is expected from its theoretical limit?



Indeed 1280x720.

Fine, I'll bet on this with you. Regardless who wins, I am certain we both want to see the existence of titles with true 720p resolution and above. Pertaining to that, Sony's first parties, some of which are nearly peerless when it comes to producing most beautiful visuals such as GoW3, UC3, TLoU, iirc, didn't go below 720p this gen.

I'm willing to bet whatever Sony is cooking up is probably a custom chip. What in the world is "secret sauce?" It sounds like something a disappointed fan boy made up.

 

[Karak]

With all that talk in the thread about Xbox GPU and how 1.2TF isn't an accurate measure of performance not only because of the unused theoritical performance of GPUs on PC but also due to certain custom blocks that MS may have implemented to produce results that exceed expectations for the 1.2TF GPU.

Now, in the same vein, while the PS4's GPU is rumoured to have theoretical performance of 1.8TF, will it also be customised with some form "secret sauce" that'll allow to perform beyond what is expected from its theoretical limit?



Indeed 1280x720.

Fine, I'll bet on this with you. Regardless who wins, I am certain we both want to see the existence of titles with true 720p resolution and above. Pertaining to that, Sony's first parties, some of which are nearly peerless when it comes to producing most beautiful visuals such as GoW3, UC3, TLoU, iirc, didn't go below 720p this gen.

We should probably do an end date. So we remember.
Do you want to say maybe 3 years in? 4 years? Or longer?

 

[tipoo]

So all three of those specs clearly favor Orbis, but still, the impression that everyone in the american boards have is that Durango is a bit better than Orbis. I know "both will be good, port buddies, bla bla bla".

I know, but it's clear that everybody in these forums expect Durango to outperform Orbis and i just don't see how.

I don't know what will outperform what, but I can tell you it's not just about hardware specs. It depends on how much Sony has changed this round.
I'll tell you first hand no one rivals Microsofts debugging and coding tools, there is still no official debug tool for the PS3 GPU as far as I know, game developers got fed up and made their own unofficial one actually. PIX on 360 is a godsend.




This developer did a good job explaining it.
http://gamingbolt.com/developer-exp...oping-for-each-console-ps3-being-the-hardest#!

Xbox360: Other than the big-endian thing, it really smells like a PC —until you dug into it. The GPU is great —except that the limited EDRAM means that you have to draw your scene twice to comply with the anti-aliasing requirement? WTF! Holy Crap there are a lot of SIMD registers! 4 floats x 128 registers x 6 registers banks = 12K of registers! You are handed DX9 and everything works out of the box. But, if you dig in, you find better ways to do things. Deeper and deeper. Eventually, your code looks nothing like PC-DX9 and it works soooo much better than it did before! The debugger is awesome! PIX! PIX! I Kiss You!

PS3: A 95 pound box shows up on your desk with a printout of the 24-step instructions for how to turn it on for the first time. Everyone tries, most people fail to turn it on. Eventually, one guy goes around and sets up everyone else’s machine. There’s only one CPU. It seems like it might be able to do everything, but it can’t. The SPUs seem like they should be really awesome, but not for anything you or anyone else is doing. The CPU debugger works pretty OK. There is no SPU debugger. There was nothing like PIX at first. Eventually some Sony 1st-party devs got fed up and made their own PIX-like GPU debugger. The GPU is very, very disappointing… Most people try to stick to working with the CPU, but it can’t handle the workload. A few people dig deep into the SPUs and, Dear God, they are fast! Unfortunately, they eventually figure out that the SPUs need to be devoted almost full time making up for the weaknesses of the GPU.

Now if Sony has the development side all fixed up and up to Microsofts levels and these specs are true, sure it will likely outperform the Nextbox. But that's a lot of things to fix. Debuggers take a long time to make and perfect.

Also you are not counting the eSRAM just fyi, the eDRAM on the 360 made a big difference. Many of the high bandwidth operations can be put there, reducing how much main memory bandwidth you need. Heck, the Wii U does ok with only 12GB/s main memory for the same reason. Plus 8GB of the slower memory vs 4GB on the PS4, both have advantages and disadvantages.

 

[Spongebob]

I don't know if i should place a bet, but i'm still waiting on the magic special super duper secret sauce that Durango has to exceed Orbis.

Why am i saying this?

Let's pick up the most credible rumors out there that gives us the following specs:

Orbis

4 cores clocked at 3.2ghz
4 GB of RAM at 192mb/s
GPU unit capable of 1.84 TF

Against

8 cores clocked at 1.6ghz
8 GB of RAM at 68m/s
GPU unit capable of 1.30 TF

So all three of those specs clearly favor Orbis, but still, the impression that everyone in the american boards have is that Durango is a bit better than Orbis. I know "both will be good, port buddies, bla bla bla".

I know, but it's clear that everybody in these forums expect Durango to outperform Orbis and i just don't see how.

The hardcore market is there for Sony for their taking. The only chance they miss out on this is if they go nuts on trojan horses and useless things, like 3D and 4K. Unfortunately, it appears that they do, but Microsoft is giving all the clues you can hope for saying that they are going for the living room, which makes me question just how much of a hardcore machine they will make.

Kinect, glasses, Windows 8, streaming services, home automation, it's just too many stuff getting in their way. I don't see them doing all of this AND being the system of choice for hardcore gamers.

The specs we know only make this even more difficult.

I don't know, this is a random rant, but it surprises me the amount of people expecting a stronger system from Microsoft just because they are rich, when all signs point them going for living room owning crap.

Let's wait and see, but in my mind the meltdowns will be if people find out that Durango doesn't stomp Orbis like they once thought.

That information is old and comes from the very first dev kit. Sweetvar26 confirmed that Sony switched from steamroller cores to jaguar (MS as well). Unless I'm mistaken jaguar cores really aren't capable of being clocked any higher than 2.2 GHz. So really its 4 jaguar cores @ 2.2 GHz vs 8 jaguar cores @ 1.6 GHz.

 

[Elios83]

I don't know if i should place a bet, but i'm still waiting on the magic special super duper secret sauce that Durango has to exceed Orbis.

Why am i saying this?

Let's pick up the most credible rumors out there that gives us the following specs:

Orbis

4 cores clocked at 3.2ghz
4 GB of RAM at 192mb/s
GPU unit capable of 1.84 TF

Against

8 cores clocked at 1.6ghz
8 GB of RAM at 68m/s
GPU unit capable of 1.30 TF

So all three of those specs clearly favor Orbis, but still, the impression that everyone in the american boards have is that Durango is a bit better than Orbis. I know "both will be good, port buddies, bla bla bla".

I know, but it's clear that everybody in these forums expect Durango to outperform Orbis and i just don't see how.

The hardcore market is there for Sony for their taking. The only chance they miss out on this is if they go nuts on trojan horses and useless things, like 3D and 4K. Unfortunately, it appears that they do, but Microsoft is giving all the clues you can hope for saying that they are going for the living room, which makes me question just how much of a hardcore machine they will make.

Kinect, glasses, Windows 8, streaming services, home automation, it's just too many stuff getting in their way. I don't see them doing all of this AND being the system of choice for hardcore gamers.

The specs we know only make this even more difficult.

I don't know, this is a random rant, but it surprises me the amount of people expecting a stronger system from Microsoft just because they are rich, when all signs point them going for living room owning crap.

Let's wait and see, but in my mind the meltdowns will be if people find out that Durango doesn't stomp Orbis like they once thought.

A few sources are just closer to Microsoft and have more 'faith' in them to deliver as a company. So their comments are conditioned by this but there's nothing concrete to it because a lot of key details are still missing.
Products will be similar, it's obvious considering that they're being targeted for the same release period and similar if not the same launch price.
There isn't a company that can do magic while the other can't and this company certainly wouldn't be Microsoft which isn't even a hardware company.
It's fair to assume that one box will be better than the other at performing specific tasks depeding on the architectural choices made, but both will fall in the same category power wise.

That information is old and comes from the very first dev kit. Sweetvar26 confirmed that Sony switched from steamroller cores to jaguar (MS as well). Unless I'm mistaken jaguar cores really aren't capable of being clocked any higher than 2.2 GHz. So really its 4 jaguar cores @ 2.2 GHz vs 8 jaguar cores @ 1.6 GHz.

And/or they could just have upped the number of their cores as well.
Also we're not at a point to be able to assume anything as 'confirmed' expect for the fact that AMD is working with both MS and Sony.

 

[i-Lo]

We should probably do an end date. So we remember.
Do you want to say maybe 3 years in? 4 years? Or longer?

So the bet is all or nothing *heh, I was going to ask for a margin of error but that'll take away from the danger*.

Now, should we still have our accounts intact and both of us live through this generation, a true result can only be valid after the next generation ends. Yes, it'll be a very long time for me. However, for you, if I am proven wrong, I would assume it'd be well before the end of the upcoming generation.

I hope we can keep ourselves from being banned. In the case of that unfortunate eventuality, may I propose a contingent of sharing each other's email/FB through PM as a mean for remaining in touch.

That information is old and comes from the very first dev kit. Sweetvar26 confirmed that Sony switched from steamroller cores to jaguar (MS as well). Unless I'm mistaken jaguar cores really aren't capable of being clocked any higher than 2.2 GHz. So really its 4 jaguar cores @ 2.2 GHz vs 8 jaguar cores @ 1.6 GHz.

No, the talk is that they are switching back and forth between jag and steamroller atm depending upon which one will be available for production come the appropriate time. This is what may cause PS4's delay.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I don't know what will outperform what, but I can tell you it's not just about hardware specs. It depends on how much Sony has changed this round.
I'll tell you first hand no one rivals Microsofts debugging and coding tools, there is still no official debug tool for the PS3 GPU as far as I know, game developers got fed up and made their own unofficial one actually. PIX on 360 is a godsend.




This developer did a good job explaining it.
http://gamingbolt.com/developer-exp...oping-for-each-console-ps3-being-the-hardest#!




Now if Sony has the development side all fixed up and up to Microsofts levels and these specs are true, sure it will likely outperform the Nextbox. But that's a lot of things to fix. Debuggers take a long time to make and perfect.

Also you are not counting the eSRAM just fyi, the eDRAM on the 360 made a big difference. Many of the high bandwidth operations can be put there, reducing how much main memory bandwidth you need. Heck, the Wii U does ok with only 12GB/s main memory for the same reason.

I swear I have read this exact post somewhere before. The article you link sounds like the dev talking about the PS3 at the beginning and yes it was said to be terrible.

A much more logical way of trying to predict whether they have improved in this area would be to look at their latest device. That is the Vita and I read that it is a big improvement.

 

[Spongebob]

No, the talk is that they are switching back and forth between jag and steamroller atm depending upon which one will be available for production come the appropriate time. This is what may cause PS4's delay.

No, the 4 cores @ 3.2 GHz figure is from the old vgleaks article. Sweetvar26 specifically said that Sony had switched to Jaguar AND that Sony's design was being finalized. It's impossible to completely change the CPU cores in your design less than one year from launch(especially with a gap as big as jaguar>steamroller). Both MS and Sony are going with jaguar, and Orbis's cores won't be clocked higher than 2.2 GHz.

 

[Polo67]

I don't think MS's concerned about being the most most powerful console . There focus is taking over the living room with a all in one set top box. Do we know for sure if the next box will have a BD player or not?

 

[gundamkyoukai]

No, the 4 cores @ 3.2 GHz figure is from the old vgleaks articles. Sweetvar26 specifically said that Sony had switched to Jaguar AND that Sony's design was being finalized. It's impossible to completely change the CPU cores in your design less than one year from design. Both MS and Sony are going with jaguar, and Orbis's cores won't be clocked higher than 2.2 GHz.

Sweetvar26 info was also old in fact i think it was older than the vgleaks article from what i remember .
We also know that Sony has beef up the GPU and added more ram since then .

 

[Elios83]

No, the 4 cores @ 3.2 GHz figure is from the old vgleaks article. Sweetvar26 specifically said that Sony had switched to Jaguar AND that Sony's design was being finalized. It's impossible to completely change the CPU cores in your design less than one year from launch(especially with a gap as big as jaguar>steamroller). Both MS and Sony are going with jaguar, and Orbis's cores won't be clocked higher than 2.2 GHz.

First of all you're assuming things as facts too quickly.
Second thing AMD has a contract, they have to deliver something with the intented performance in the intended time frame.
They can't just say "I'm sorry, we aren't ready, just use our last generation product with half the performance" or they would be in serious contractual problems.
So they have to come up with something equivalent, if the cores are less powerful than expected they have to use more of them and clocked higher.
They have the experience to do so, they're working with Microsoft LOL

 

[Karak]

So the bet is all or nothing *heh, I was going to ask for a margin of error but that'll take away from the danger*.

Now, should we still have our accounts intact and both of us live through this generation, a true result can only be valid after the next generation ends. Yes, it'll be a very long time for me. However, for you, if I am proven wrong, I would assume it'd be well before the end of the upcoming generation.

I hope we can keep ourselves from being banned. In the case of that unfortunate eventuality, may I propose a contingent of sharing each other's email/FB through PM as a mean for remaining in touch.

Sounds great! That is a really good plan. Ya no banning. I wouldn't be able to come here and post about pen and paper roleplaying games

 

[seattle6418]

No, the 4 cores @ 3.2 GHz figure is from the old vgleaks article. Sweetvar26 specifically said that Sony had switched to Jaguar AND that Sony's design was being finalized. It's impossible to completely change the CPU cores in your design less than one year from launch(especially with a gap as big as jaguar>steamroller). Both MS and Sony are going with jaguar, and Orbis's cores won't be clocked higher than 2.2 GHz.

We might be way off on the CPU, but one concrete piece of info is the MS leaked PDF document.

The amount of non gaming stuff is what worries me. It was their vision, their priorities, what they will focus.

I get a feeling that Durango is a PC in a closed box, much more than a console dedicated to games.

The specs were just a way to reinforce my worries that they can't be all casual and all hardcore at the same time, i know some numbers are off.

 

[Glorified G]

Sweetvar26 info was also old in fact i think it was older than the vgleaks article from what i remember .

Yup, he mentioned that some of the info was as old as 2010.

 

[Elios83]

We might be way off on the CPU, but one concrete piece of info is the MS leaked PDF document.

The amount of non gaming stuff is what worries me. It was their vision, their priorities, what they will focus.

I get a feeling that Durango is a PC in a closed box, much more than a console dedicated to games.

The specs were just a way to reinforce my worries that they can't be all casual and all hardcore at the same time, i know some numbers are off.

As long as running Windows 8 and offering TV services doesn't become a priority compared to run games they will be fine.

 

[Can Crusher]

Not wise to start choosing right now which console is doing right by gamers in terms of hardware and games.

How can anybody who effectively has no knowledge of what's coming, already be taking definite conclusions.

 

[Spongebob]

Yup, he mentioned that some of the info was as old as 2010.

The info that was as old as 2010 was the information from documents that he posted. The information about the CPU he gave was newer than the vgleaks article (lherre hinted at this aswell).

Sweetvar26 info was also old in fact i think it was older than the vgleaks article from what i remember .
We also know that Sony has beef up the GPU and added more ram since then .

No, we don't know that you're making up facts now.

Also regarding the RAM figure, only proelite and thuway are mentioning a move to 4GB of GDDR5 and no offence to either of them, but those two are hardly the most beliveable of people.

At the moment 4GB of GDDR5 would amount to 16 chips resulting in increased motherboard complexity and would add a great deal of money to the BOM.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Yup, he mentioned that some of the info was as old as 2010.

When you look at it seems the vgleaks leaks specs were spot on for the most part .
They even had Sony going for 4GB of ram .
Now we need to know how the customize stuff and if clock speeds the same .

No, we don't know that you're making up facts now.

Also regarding the RAM figure, only proelite and thuway are mentioning a move to 4GB of GDDR5 and no offence to either of them, but those two are hardly the most beliveable of people.

At the moment 4GB of GDDR5 would amount to 16 chips resulting in increased motherboard complexity and would add a great deal of money to the BOM.

I am not making fact there are rumors just like everything else they same can be said for Sweetvar26 who info was old and he is not a insider also .
Right now i going with the vgleaks stuff which is just as believable as some post on a Chinese message board .
Also it should be note that higher GDDR5 chips suppose to come this year .

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

That's a really, really strange approach, especially considering MS and ATi pioneered USA with Xenos. Making the new Xbox Saturn-like in hardware architecture makes no sense at all to me. I'm especially wondering what sort of fixed function hardware they had in mind that can make it on par with PS4 and its GPU which seems to have 50% more raw power.

don't worry. AMD has been talking up fixed-function hardware a lot recently and implied we'd see it in both nextgen consoles. i think there's more to the architecture of Orbis than we know.

 

[Spongebob]

I am not making fact there are rumors just like everything else they same can be said for Sweetvar26 who info was old and he is not a insider also .
Right now i going with the vgleaks stuff which is just as believable as some post on a Chinese message board .

1. His friend at AMD is(was?) an insider.

2. Only the information he posted from documents were from 2010, the switch from jaguar to steamroller specifically came from talking with his friend.

3. There hasn't been a single rumor about Sony adding more CUs to their GPU.

 

[i-Lo]

Also regarding the RAM figure, only proelite and thuway are mentioning a move to 4GB of GDDR5 and no offence to either of them, but those two are hardly the most beliveable of people.

At the moment 4GB of GDDR5 would amount to 16 chips resulting in increased motherboard complexity and would add a great deal of money to the BOM.

4Gbit or 512MB GDDR5 chips are supposed to be out Q1 2013. While we're still speculating on mere rumours, the higher density GDDR5 chips (a fact) may have a role to play for future.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

4Gbit or 512MB GDDR5 chips are supposed to be out Q1 2013. While we're still speculating on mere rumours, the higher density GDDR5 chips (a fact) may have a role to play for future.

I think that the memory will turn out to be DDR3/4 stacked with GDDR5 like bandwidth.

 

[Truespeed]

I don't think MS's concerned about being the most most powerful console . There focus is taking over the living room with a all in one set top box. Do we know for sure if the next box will have a BD player or not?

Who cares about the living room anymore - that's so last generation. We're born mobile. Our living room is the world. Boom.

 

[Spongebob]

4Gbit or 512MB GDDR5 chips are supposed to be out Q1 2013. While we're still speculating on mere rumours, the higher density GDDR5 chips (a fact) may have a role to play for future.

I'm pretty sure they're only going to begin sampling them in Q1 of 2013. I doubt there will be enough volume available for a console launch in Q3-Q4 2013.

 

[i-Lo]

I'm pretty sure they're only going to begin sampling them in Q1 of 2013. I doubt there will be enough volume available for a console launch in Q3-Q4 2013.

Since you're so sure of what's what now and what's to come, are you sure you're in the right thread?

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Everything has been rumors so far nobody should be certain of anything .
All we can do is speculate on the info from all over the place .
It's not i saying what people are telling us is fact because i don't expect anyone here to have the full picture .

 

[Spongebob]

Since you're so sure of what's what now and what's to come, are you sure you're in the right thread?

I'm just speculating myself, but at the same time trying to figure out why everyone is so sure 4GB of GDDR5 will be present in Orbis. I mean the information came from thuway....

 

[Tallshortman]

I have not seen any rumor about the exact power of the systems in TFlops

Do you have the links that state both these numbers ?

As for thinking 720 will outperform PS4, it is because a 8800 GPU is miles ahead of the A10 GPU

8800 is the next top end line of GPUs from AMD, while the A10 has a GPU that barely outperforms Xenos on xbox 360

Also 720 is supposed to have more ram

First off, the 8800 isn't the next top end models, that's the 8900 cards. Second, they won't be using an off the shelf A10 because the GPU in that is something around a 7600 GPU. Lastly, faster RAM has been proven to be more desirable than more, slower ram.

 

[i-Lo]

I think that the memory will turn out to be DDR3/4 stacked with GDDR5 like bandwidth.

Yea, after Vita, one would think that Sony won't be wasting the information gathered on stacking. There was a speculation by JeffRigby about how the APU may use its separate pool of stacked DDR3 RAM. One question nags at me, if this rumour about ddr3/4 stacking comes to fruition: Why not match XB3 in that regard then?

I am pretty sure people would still remember the rumour about two dev kits, one featuring 8GB and the other 16GB. It made me wonder then about the possibility of the two dev kits representing two different ram types. And perhaps the devs settled for the faster ram.

Hopefully, something will trickle down around April/May (I am hoping for something during Destination Playstation but it could very well be all about PS3 price drop and PSV).

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I just got confirmation that the PS4 is going to play video games. Suck my dick AMD.

FIGHTTHEPOWER.

Everything has been rumors so far nobody should be certain of anything .
.

I am.

 

[thehypocrite]

I'm just speculating myself, but at the same time trying to figure out why everyone is so sure 4GB of GDDR5 will be present in Orbis. I mean the information came from thuway....

If you're going to discredit rumors, you should give us some sources.

 

[Spongebob]

I stand corrected: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=44775025&postcount=2252

Looks like 4Gb GDDR5 chips will be "quickly implemented" in early 2013. I guess 4GB of RAM may be possible in Orbis, but its still going to be expensive,

 

[BlackJace]

I just got confirmation that the PS4 is going to play video games. Suck my dick AMD.

FIGHTTHEPOWER.


I am.

Yeah fucking right, sources?

 

[rdrr gnr]

If you're going to discredit rumors, you should give us some sources.

thuway has no insider information or sources.

 

[B.O.O.M]

Since we are running low on new information let me ask this question from you guys.

Is there any possible way sony can use the PS4 to make streaming games via Gaikai be smoother?

 

[Allonym]

First off, the 8800 isn't the next top end models, that's the 8900 cards. Second, they won't be using an off the shelf A10 because the GPU in that is something around a 7600 GPU. Lastly, faster RAM has been proven to be more desirable than more, slower ram.

Will PS4 feature a discrete GPU in addition to the APU? I'm really lost when it comes to the technicalities of these things. I thought there was talk of PS4 featuring both something akin to the Trinity APU and a 8xxx series GPU? Or was that all just crap. I want the machine to be beastly while maintaining affordability.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I know, but it's clear that everybody in these forums expect Durango to outperform Orbis and i just don't see how.

If the specs are accurate, I think a lot of the positive excitement about Durango is just because more is known about it in the development world and there's more refined dev kits rather than a claim that Durango is more powerful.

On paper, Orbis looks like a more powerful and simple solution compared to what Microsoft is looking to provide.

But a lot of devs appear to be in the dark about Orbis and there's not a whole lot of information from Sony since they're not as forthcoming. The dev environment probably isn't as far along either.

But, IF the rumored specs are true...even with those supposed 3 extra magic chips, I don't see Durango moving past its shortcomings in comparison to Orbis.

I think Microsoft's unusual design stems from their intended goals for the platform, and a lot of those dedicated hardware resources will be used primarily for the purpose of aiding in certain functions Microsoft wants to support -- Kinect, Windows 8, TV Tuner, etc.

Sony's console looks to be designed mostly to target high-end specs for gaming and won't allocate nearly as many resources to features.

Just my two cents. In the end, they'll be in the same ballpark. Both will be next-gen.