Could be that they don't have any hardware they could send out so they use something that's in the range?
vg247-PS4: new kits shipping now, AMD A10 used as base, final version next summer
- Thread starter Globox_82
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Could be that they don't have any hardware they could send out so they use something that's in the range?
I believe that the 8000 series (the architecture) is going into next gen consoles.
But that slide says nothing about it, it just confirms that AMD Radeon tech is/will be used in multiple consoles (they could be counting in 360 and Wii U as well).
Also 8000 series doesn't necessarily mean mobile and it doesn't mean a standard PC mobile part.
So just chill out
1Teraflops GPUs in next gen systems is not enough especially if they're going with GPGPU.
But that slide says nothing about it, it just confirms that AMD Radeon tech is/will be used in multiple consoles (they could be counting in 360 and Wii U as well).
Also 8000 series doesn't necessarily mean mobile and it doesn't mean a standard PC mobile part.
So just chill out
1Teraflops GPUs in next gen systems is not enough especially if they're going with GPGPU.Graphics Horse
Member
I believe that the 8000 series (the architecture) is going into next gen consoles.
But that slide says nothing about it, it just confirms that AMD Radeon tech is/will be used in multiple consoles (they could be counting in 360 and Wii U as well).
Also 8000 series doesn't necessarily mean mobile and it doesn't mean a standard PC mobile part.
So just chill out
Indeed.
Some weird conclusion jumping going on here, seemingly deliberately taking part of that slide out of context. I think we all knew they were using 'Radeon' tech already.
Ciinow cloud servers using 8000M confirmed!?
Exactly. People are interpreting the slides out of context. There is no reason PS4 would use a 30W GPU.
Perfect.
I hope this doesn't become the new talking point. This is one of my favorite threads to check throughout the day and sometimes the flow of conversation goes....in a weird direction.
Intel CPUs [architecture] are a cut above AMD CPUs, who as a company are going in the APU [HSA] direction. Seems a bit odd not to go with Radeon for graphics at least.
seattle6418
Member
We´ve been over this a hundred this on this thread, and young people kind of forget history because maybe they were kids back then, but the point is, PS1 and PS2 were high end products, the best you could get when they were launched.
What happened later on the respective generations is irrelevant, the point was to say that Sony always goes for what´s the best avaliable on the market.
TBH, the only real fear of Sony going cheap and not so powerful, is if the Wii sucess changed their way of thinking and they decided to go casual, innovative and stuff. I hope that´s not the case, i think there´s a very small chance of that happening.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Tell me how you make anything but Mobile in 2013 at either GloFlo or TSMC? The following AMD roadmap confirms skipping 2013 for performance. AMD Has No Steamroller APUs and CPUs for 2013 – Report
Bingo
Yes people have been over this a hundred times and they are mistaken every time. I'm also not some kid who has forgotten the launch of the PS1 or PS2.
The reasoning that it's Sony's MO to have powerhouse consoles (or consoles that are not inferior) is flawed. Every manufacturer tries to have the best available in the market upon launch. Every Sega console was the most powerful console at launch, so you're saying powerhouse consoles are their MO as well and the later launch of the PS2/xbox/GC is irrelevant here too?
In no way am I saying Sony will release a cheap and weak console, but I keep getting the impression that some here expect Sony's system to be the most power just because it's Sony. All I'm saying is looking at the history of this industry, this makes absolutely no sense.
Besides, there is no chance the Wii success would change their way of thinking. Instead their financial situation right now would have the more of an effect over their way of thinking. No matter what though, they aren't going to give up or hand over the core gaming market to MS, so there's nothing to worry about IMO.
Semi-accurate reported something similar, and AMD officially denied it. Tom's hardware even had a quote.
Probably not since you'd think the DS would have influenced them in the same way with Vita, but again Vita is the best portable gaming machine you can get on the market.
seattle6418
Member
And it´s a shame the maket is giving a different message. I know the system still lacks games and it´s expensive, but it shouldn´t be getting beat by a system that technicaly is vastly inferior (3DS).
The incentives for going full power are not as strong today as they were in the past. I just think this is a shame.
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@Kagemaru
OK, i think Sega is a good example, but the point in saying what a said for Sony was that when the others came out later, the generation was already decided, so it was irrelevant what they were doing.
One different take on this could be this: companies have always launched a system with the "best avaliable tech", only Nintendo has broken this trend with handhelds and Wii-WiiU. So if both Sony and MS are launching in the same time frame, it could be an interesting scenario.
They both will try to be better than the other. If Sony releases the PS4 in Q4 of 2013, and the Durango is stronger, it will mark the first time in their history that they released inferior hardware compared to what´s avaliable in the market at the time.
but PS2 and PS1, while nice pieces of hardware, had GAMES. You say yourself that the Vita lacks games and is more expensive so why shouldn't the 3DS be beating it? Because the Vita is more powerful and Sony? It'll always be about the games.
Karak
Member
Before the 360 was revealed there were a large number of stock connections and business bulletins that showed links between particular companies. I should have made it clear I am talking about something along the lines of a indication in a portfolio. Not "GOOGLE and MS are now hand in hand!" kind of things
He could have actually been meaning the new AMD stuff here yesterday/today. But he said "new" partner and it sounded like more than just "consoles" on a Powerpoint. So I don't think its along the same lines though the timing is...suspicious as hell.
Karak
Member
Double Post damn!
Additionally this gen is different, totally different than any other due to the simple tech convergences we see. Power will NOT be as important as total ability to the system to take the living room by storm for consoles. Though games are a great lead in there specific need to have parts inherent to making them look and perform well takes away from other living room functions. Hopefully Sony is at least THINKING about a total system with abilities that aren't just for games. The competition is way beyond what it was just a couple years ago let alone when these older systems launched.
Additionally this gen is different, totally different than any other due to the simple tech convergences we see. Power will NOT be as important as total ability to the system to take the living room by storm for consoles. Though games are a great lead in there specific need to have parts inherent to making them look and perform well takes away from other living room functions. Hopefully Sony is at least THINKING about a total system with abilities that aren't just for games. The competition is way beyond what it was just a couple years ago let alone when these older systems launched.
This is what I meant.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Just read through multiple articles and the difference could be Charlie saying the big cores are dead and the roadmaps looking like they are deliberately skipping 2013. There is high performance coming in 2014 with 20nm.
All this talk about mobile line made me do a little digging on 7970M. I just saw the performance review of the card on a few games where this GPU was tested. Only when you put the mouse over the "ultra" will you see it was performed at 1080p instead of 768p for the rest of the settings. There are two FPS numbers, each signifying a different set up. The first one comprises of:
AMD A-Series A10-4600M 2.3GHz
Radeon HD 7970M (850MHz), 2048MB (1200MHz) GDDR5, Catalyst 12.11
8192MB RAM
The second one:
Schenker XMG P502 PRO
Intel Core i7 3610QM 2.3GHz
Radeon HD 7970M (850MHz), 2048MB (1200MHz) GDDR5, Catalyst 12.11
8192MB RAM
The performance of A10 is... well..uh... abysmal. And while it doesn't reflect on how the rumoured derivative of A10 (which may also be a mobile version *sigh*) will do in a closed console box, it doesn't inspire much in the way of confidence either.
AMD A-Series A10-4600M 2.3GHz
Radeon HD 7970M (850MHz), 2048MB (1200MHz) GDDR5, Catalyst 12.11
8192MB RAM
The second one:
Schenker XMG P502 PRO
Intel Core i7 3610QM 2.3GHz
Radeon HD 7970M (850MHz), 2048MB (1200MHz) GDDR5, Catalyst 12.11
8192MB RAM
The performance of A10 is... well..uh... abysmal. And while it doesn't reflect on how the rumoured derivative of A10 (which may also be a mobile version *sigh*) will do in a closed console box, it doesn't inspire much in the way of confidence either.
BlockheadBrown
Member
I should have made it clear I am talking about something along the lines of a indication in a portfolio. Not "GOOGLE and MS are now hand in hand!" kind of things
Could you expand on what you mean further here? My apologies. I'm just not getting what you mean here.
Karak
Member
Sure.
Pretty much what Kage and I were saying. No giant announcement pre-720 being announced or at least not one pointing out its about the 720. But at least 1-2 somewhat vague announcements of new partnerships, patents connecting them, presentations and so forth for a new technical partner that are not currently attached to MS. Stocks are a very good indicator of this as companies will hide R&D costs as losses elsewhere. It is one of the main ways many people can tell various companies are gearing up for next gen. Following the stock market can really help when trying to see who is doing what. It will also reflect other things like companies working together as much of that has to be public knowledge and if its a traded company its in a person's portfolio(mine for instance).
I still don't think my cousin meant the AMD stuff that just came out, though the timing was pretty exact. He said new. And AMD has been in bed for some time.
BlockheadBrown
Member
Here's a question/theory that I'm wondering if someone a bit more knowledgeable than me could answer. Say if Sony went an APU/discrete GPU set up, could each card be customized for different types of tasks? For example the more powerful card could handle advanced forward rendering and the weaker card could handle more simple pos process effects. The theory behind this would be similar to how the Cell/RSX worked together but I'm not sure if it's actualy possible.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Offtopic , but does anyone have the screens of the uncompressed Uncharted 3 shots that were posted in this thread way back? I cant find them anywhere on Google...
edit: nvm found it
edit: nvm found it
When ken was around it would have been totally dismissed as a joke.
Now though the company is run by marketing clowns who don't have an ounce of engineering or scientific background
The reverse is also true. Either way someone is going to release a slightly 'less powerful' console for the first time ever.
I don't believe it's a big deal.
AstroNut325
Member
What happened to Ken Kutaragi? Is he no longer a member of Sony? Did he retire?
dgrdsv
Member
It is possible but it also is quite ineffective. It's better to put all these shaders from APU into descreet GPU and go with CPU+GPU combo. Current Cell+RSX scheme is exactly what was wrong with PS3 to begin with.
If PS4 will be APU-based then I don't think that there will be a descreet GPU in it (unless they'll slap it in at a last moment to be competitive).
The PS3 happened.
Forced out by that welsh idiot stinger and in no small part due to kaz hirai.
ken was destined to be the CEO of sony corp one day. After the disastrous tenure of nobuyuki idei's, it was a travesty a clown like stringer who has no engineering or scientific background to get in front of the queue over ken.
The more I think about it, and I think this was mentioned here or on another site I visit, is why bother with an APU + GPU set up? Why not just move more transistors to your GPU and have a normal CPU?
Depending on the memory set up of any system that would have an APU + GPU set up, I wonder if it could have it's set backs. When using the Cell for graphical tasks, you had to set up additional buffers, which consumed more memory. IF, and this is a big IF, any system has a NUMA set up, that may result in additional buffers necessary when running graphical tasks on the APU.
You do realize the PS3 is a product of corporate agendas as much as it is of Ken's mad dreams, right? Blu-ray and Cell are both good examples of how Sony tried to push a corporate angle through the PS3.
Correct. The average consumer is not going to know if one game has more samples in the motion blur or the texture filtering is a higher quality on one console. They will care about whether or not they can play their CoD or Madden on the system and how much it'll cost.
Edit:
Ken's vision was a blessing with the PSone, they lucked out with the PS2, and he was one of the main sources behind any disasters surrounding the PS3. It's for good reason Ken was forced out. I have all the respect for the man and what he did with the PSone, but his fantasies got the best of him and it cost the company a lot of money with the PS3.
Considering the disaster that PS3 was at the start, thank fuck he didn't become the CEO of Sony to be honest.
Kaz was the one who brought PS3 back from death. He is pretty much the ideal person to be in charge of Sony right now.
Capcom feels it's relevant to ask how interested you are in owning the PS4 and Xbox 720 in the next 12 months: http://www.capcom-unity.com/sven/blog/2012/12/20/we-need-your-input
Capcom feels it's relevant to ask how interested you are in owning the PS4 and Xbox 720 in the next 12 months: http://www.capcom-unity.com/sven/blog/2012/12/20/we-need-your-input
Great find! I guess this enforces the thought that Sony is at least trying to launch in 2013.
It shouldn't be but we know some people especially on a forum like this need constant validation about their gaming choices. So it will be a big deal to a lot of people.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Capcom feels it's relevant to ask how interested you are in owning the PS4 and Xbox 720 in the next 12 months: http://www.capcom-unity.com/sven/blog/2012/12/20/we-need-your-input
Felt good when I got to the Resident Evil section and got to check RE, and RE2
Well if one of the requirements was to target 1080p60, you can be sure A10 isnt going to be in the final hardware. Even doing that with ease for PS3 games would require substancial amount of power.
You take Battlefied 3 bench, you can achieve that with a 7870.
Kaz didn't do that much really. The PS3 had many games in development for it before release, so it had plenty of software support.
Looking at how much of a disaster the Vita is right now, you would think that Kuturagi was never fired.
The actual hardware design of the Vita is pretty good - and by that I mean simple. The market just isn't there for that device (or a high-end portable gaming-only machine in general).
-Pyromaniac-
Member
pretty much, the vita was a great device at a good price. There's just not a big market for it anymore.
shinra-bansho
Member
The Vita is essentially off-the-shelf, afaik. It's supposedly easy to develop for. And it isn't $599.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
Ken cost Sony billions. Even with vita's failure, it's not really costing Sony much money to support
Vita: Right device, wrong time.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
It is easily the best system they have ever made from a hardware perspective
Yup
Size limit on a discrete GPU but plenty of space next to the CPU?
If you need fast communications with the CPU you can avoid using the external bus.
For physX type stuff
I'm sure there are plenty of other cases. I would think they'd try to avoid using that for post process things though - they'd want a GPU that could lift its weight without CPU assistance this time
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
apples and oranges. as others have said, the ps vita is the best hardware they ever designed, hands down. there just isn't a market for what they're offering (at least at the price they're charging for hw and sw).
Noone cares about portable development. Sony had to rely to 3rd parties support, they shoud have seen that most of them are fully concentrated on 3A console games, they would have no ressource to put on a high portable machine. Oh well...
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Lol, there's someone going by the name "superdae" trying to pull a fast one on teamxbox. Yay, detailed specs
I don't believe that for a second. 2GB of eDRAM for the GPU? 8GB GDDR5 for system RAM? Even if the planets align tomorrow and it was true, why would you need such memory for a modified HD7770?
At least it's entertaining.