vg247-PS4: new kits shipping now, AMD A10 used as base, final version next summer
- Thread starter Globox_82
- Start date
Isnt the Wiiu using something similar? it seems it has at least the gpu and the cpu under the same sink, or am i wrong?
The Wii U has a GPGPU, which if I'm correct is were the GPU handles a lot of the CPU tasks.
SkylineRKR
Member
I'm a bit conflicted. Extending this gen means no games like BF4, Watch Dogs, Crysis 3 and what not on ultra setting graphics for the consoles. But I currently have a lot of fun with the Ps3 and I will surely pick up Rising, DmC, Ni No Kuni, Tomb Raider and thats just for Q1.
When Ps4 is reality you can be very certain that Ps3 support will die quickly. Ps2 is still around, but it actually didn't get many relevant games once 2006 was done for. FFXII and GoW2 were its swan songs I think.
When Ps4 is reality you can be very certain that Ps3 support will die quickly. Ps2 is still around, but it actually didn't get many relevant games once 2006 was done for. FFXII and GoW2 were its swan songs I think.
If they do it would likely be offset by the sale of 1 or 2 games.
M°°nblade;44759353 said:
Reflowing it (baking it lol) is a temporary fix, so be warned. The problem is Sony and MS use really cheap lead-free solder on the BGAs. After continuous heating and cooling, the solder can crack and separate from the motherboard when the board warps under heat. Reflowing actually weakens the solder further. The only way to fix it is to have the system re-balled. That is, replace the BGA solder balls with higher quality leaded solder.
Did you break the clamp off of the ribbon cable? that can be fixed.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
conversly theyre are shallow gamers like myself who arnt excited for any of those games because theyre 2012 fugly
edit: ground zeros is 2013!?!?!?!?!??!!?!?!?!?!!?!?
michaelius
Banned
Canis lupus
Member
Actually PS2 had its better years after PS3 launch, it went out with a bang. All SMT games+Okami and a bunch of other post ps3 launch ps2 games.
yep, i understood that? but i didnt understood if the APU will deal with all "cpu" tasks...
jeff_rigby
Banned
You are right, Nintendo chose a cheaper older GPU design that was available ONLY in 40nm. We are assuming Sony is going with a design only available at 28nm but if it's part of the 20nm 2014 designs then it may only be available @ 20nm NOT 28 or 32 or 40. 20nm is cheaper if % yields are the same, are they? Will they be the same in 3 months or 6 months, if they will be then it may be worth going with the 20nm node as that appears to be the GloFlo and TSMC node plane for 3 years.
It really depends on how custom and what building blocks are used. We know Jaguar CPU package are available @ 28nm, will be available at 20nm but not 32nm.
If the APU, second GPU and common stacked wide IO memory are going to be on the same MCM transposer/carrier then the design is either custom or from a future design. If custom then Sony will bear the brunt of the refresh cost, if a AMD building block then AMD pays and Sony can just order a new custom SoC from AMD built with those new blocks.
AMD is betting the farm on HSA and needs game consoles to jump start the industry. They need HSA accepted so that their Fusion designs can compete with Intel. Without properly written programs taking advantage of AMD GPGPU, AMD APUs can't compete with Intel CPUs. Wide IO because it will be faster, cheaper, require less drive current (DDR4) and less energy.
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a APU place everything together so the CPU & GPU can work together better & it's cheaper than having a CPU & GPU on different chips but it limits the GPU memory speed to the speed of the CPU ram sticks, so it's making things cheaper but it's not giving your CPU the power & speed of a GPU.
a GPGPU is giving your powerful GPU with the speed of it's embedded ram the capability to do CPU task much faster than a CPU.
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I kinda explained this a year ago in my GPGPU thread (which I hoped people who are more informed about the subject would have posted more info in the thread to help the rest of us understand the benefits of APUs & GPGPUs in consoles)
SkylineRKR
Member
I don't remember. SMT was pre Ps3 I think, well perhaps not if its about EU localizations. Okami was 2006 I think.
Perhaps Valkyrie Profile 2 was the last game I bought. And it was good.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
MCM or Multi Chip Module. Separate chips all contained on one larger chip.
APU is CPU and GPU in one chip.
Ah, yes, I confused the two. I think this makes the argument for a discrete GPU even more formidable.
Over reacting much?
Stacking is not some science fiction thing, companies are doing it right now while they are preparing for mass market push of this tech. Heck, Vita is using vertical stacking for connecting SoC and video ram.
The first part of this post is a contradiction. How can something be a choice if that were the only size available? They could have tried to go smaller if they wanted, but it would have cost more. It's the same reason why we don't see the CPU or GPU smaller than 45nm in the 360.
Which leads me to my next point, yields for 20nm wouldn't be the same, so the cost would not be the same. This is the exact reason why I'm telling you these next gen systems will launch at 28nm and no smaller. Look at the issues companies had reaching 28nm, and you think 20nm would be easily reached at the same cost? Not going to happen and if ban bets were still honored, I would bet you any day of the week.
I don't even know the point of this part. All it does is support my view that 28nm will be standard at the launch of next gen.
It doesn't really work that way. You think Sony is in any position to bear any brunt? Also, AMD is in this business to make money, not pay out of their pocket for Sony's or MS' design. If this is how you think console development is, then you're way off.
Intel is so far ahead of AMD there's very little they can do to really compete with them. Staying in the market is what they should be fighting for and I fail to see how consoles would really help out there.
Edit:
Yes, but we don't compare handhelds to consoles in hardware design.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
grimshawish
Banned
Lot of prices being chucked about; how significantly would these be affected if Sony went 'Bring Your Own Storage'?
I mean they're not going to have 'installs' are they?
(I still can't believe installs fucking exist)
I mean they're not going to have 'installs' are they?
(I still can't believe installs fucking exist)
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
I don't think would effect it, look at the price of the Wii U & the max is 32gb, I wish could bring my own storage lol
doniewhalberg
Member
Haha what do you mean by this man, the ps3 force installs, or the 360 optionals? Or something I'm missing. Got confused on the context of this comment sorry.
grimshawish
Banned
Forced installs. Its so backwards to me
I do like optional though; I had a dog tag in GoW that when I went to it the game crashed, disc problem I think - installed it and went and got that dog tag
Orange Box I fixed issues with too.
But yeah force installs just seem mental; I know people are probably used to them; but yeah.
systemfehler
Member
Everything what reduces load times in the long run is something I want. Forced install - no problem but let me do something else in the meantime and don't lock the whole system.
pharmboy044
Member
Forced installs. Its so backwards to me
I do like optional though; I had a dog tag in GoW that when I went to it the game crashed, disc problem I think - installed it and went and got that dog tag
Orange Box I fixed issues with too.
But yeah force installs just seem mental; I know people are probably used to them; but yeah.
The only reason the PS3 had mandatory installs was due to the bluray read speed. I'm pretty sure we're not going to have these on the PS4.
doniewhalberg
Member
Forced installs. Its so backwards to me
I do like optional though; I had a dog tag in GoW that when I went to it the game crashed, disc problem I think - installed it and went and got that dog tag
Orange Box I fixed issues with too.
But yeah force installs just seem mental; I know people are probably used to them; but yeah.
Hahah, ok, I thought it was the other way round for a second when I read that, had to think I was wrong and check lol. Yea, totally agree, to all of that. Really do hope sony give us the option for the optional installs next time, this has to be a serious factor in why I go to 360 for my third party games.
I actually stuck MGS4 in for the first time since my original ps3 died in 2010 today and saw there was an option for full install of the chapter data now...not sure if that pleases me more than before, or the fact I sat for so long and it really wasn't just a full disc install, it was like a gig. That stuff drives me nuts.
grimshawish
Banned
Not likely since it hasn't even hit mass production yet,i thnk.I think sony will go with GDDR5.
Graphics Horse
Member
Well lets see what Sony Pictures has next year.
Elysium font might be cool, but I'm going to go with Cloudy with a chance of meatballs 2 font.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I prefer GDDR5 over DDR4. No way DDR4 bandwidth can keep up with GDDR5 and we all know consoles love their bandwidth. Perhaps split pool of DDR4+GDDR5 is possible, although I would prefer to see GDDR5 unified memory pool for PS4 (in order to avoid Skyrim situations late in next gen).
Superman font or no deal lol jk.
A split configuration is possible (DDR3/DDR4 + GDDR5) but highly unlikely. If it were I'd say the split would be 2+2 or 4+2 or 6+2 respectively.
In case of unified memory, it would very expensive to have either 4GB and especially 8GB of GDDR5. I don't know see it happening unless MS and Sony have struck a bargain with manufacturer for special rates. DDR4 consumes about half as much power as DDR3 means it'll also run cooler. At the same time, iirc, has about double the bandwidth. DDR4 would be best fit for unified structure. It's a matter of logistics and ensuring that the manufacturing volume at a negotiated price can be made reality to keep to Sony's schedule.
At the worst end of it all, DDR3 is the likeliest of candidates.
grimshawish
Banned
Don't they do downloadable classics?
Zoe
Member
Spotty compatibility and requires you to rebuy games you already own.
Iacobellis
Junior Member
Most likely use a variation of the font originating from the PS2.
DDR4 will become very very cheap until PS4 reaches EOL.
They would want to decrease the costs as much as possible from the launch itself.
It doesn't exist.Is it ok to dream of XDR 2 for the PS4?
systemfehler
Member
Is it ok to dream of XDR 2 for the PS4?
Okay but certainly not very realistic. Even if cost wouldn't be an issue availability is the big unknown factor. 4GB 256Bit GDDR5 or 4GB 384Bit DDR4 is my guess - Sony prefers high bandwith but might need to cut some costs in the long run.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
IDK,what abut the availability of DDR4?
There are 2 schools of thought on this one. If you want fast memory (such as GDDR5) you will have less of it. The current "cap" of common sense for that would be 2GB, with any more going to cost prohibitively and complicate the design, which complicates future cost reduction.
FYI, Microsoft currently has 12GB of DDR3 in their dev kits (of which the final console will have 8GB - some will be reserved). Feasibly they could replace this with DDR4 in the final console, since DDR4 is basically similar to DDR3 but running a bit faster and a bit cooler, but DDR4 is not out yet.
Sony's original "target spec" sheet indicated a 4-core steamroller CPU and 2GB of GDDR5. There have been many rumours that say the Steamrollers have changed to Jaguars, and I would bet that Sony's taken a look at Microsoft's larger amount of slower memory and said "well that could fuck us for ports... how bout we do the same thing? DDR3 for now, maybe DDR4 later"
Sony, lean closer to Apple. You have exclusive content and services (Studios and Gaikai) that Samsung and MS don't have. Every Android company tries to distant itself from Apple. But if you can be the only Android hardware provider that work well with Apple (and Sony) products, then you will stand out from the crowd.
Hardware differences are not so important these days, especially chip choice. The system design and ecosystem are more important.
Hardware differences are not so important these days, especially chip choice. The system design and ecosystem are more important.