vg247-PS4: new kits shipping now, AMD A10 used as base, final version next summer

No, no one said anything about 1.5 teraflops being the absolute limit. We have one vague comment that pretty much states that because of power and cost, Durango isn't going to be the graphical powerhouse some hope it will be... It's completely up to interpretation what constitutes an unreasonable "graphical powerhouse".

Well, almost nobody here expects a 7970 or 680 in next gen system but yes at least a Pitcairn level GPU. These things will have to last, what? 8-10 years?. Something less than that... well, buy a PC or a Steambox that will be surely a reasonable "graphical powerhouse".
 
Could you please refresh my memory regarding FLOPS numbers in APU/GPU part (if any numbers were mentioned at all)?
I haven't found anything for Jaguar APUs but I remember reading .4Tflops for an older APU. Jaguar APUs are going to be new this year. The APU also contains the GNB or Northbridge/southbridge, memory controller, hardware codecs and more so the available TDP/heat budget in being placed on a SI is pretty full. Also yield issues I think are at max considering all that is in that piece of Silicon.

AMD will have a press conference Today

it will reveal high-end gaming notebooks and pieces of hardware designed for mobile devices.

A live webcast of a news conference scheduled for January 7 will be broadcast over the Internet about a day after the conclusion of the event. That means January 8, the first day of CES.

AMD will likely reveal some devices powered by the Z-60 APU, as well as Radeon HD 8000 GPUs. New A-Series and FX accelerated/central processing units are a given as well.
 
There are several models for that thing, the 2.5 Tflops model (GTX 660) goes for like $1400 I believe.

Edit: apparently it also use a 330 watt power supply.

Except the bump up to a 330W PSU in real terms is a negligible cost and the (consumer) price difference between a GTX640 and GT660 Ti is only $190 - likely far less for suppliers. So that $1400 is a huge markup
 
I haven't found anything for Jaguar APUs but I remember reading .4Tflops for an older APU. Jaguar APUs are going to be new this year. The APU also contains the GNB or Northbridge/southbridge, memory controller, hardware codecs and more so the available TDP/heat budget in being placed on a SI is pretty full. Also yield issues I think are at max considering all that is in that piece of Silicon.

Thx jeff.
 
Well, almost nobody here expects a 7970 or 680 in next gen system but yes at least a Pitcairn level GPU. These things will have to last, what? 8-10 years?. Something less than that... well, buy a PC or a Steambox that will be surely a reasonable "graphical powerhouse".

Aegies mentioned that from what he heard the Durango GPU was not easily comparable to any current GPU, so who knows what we'll actually get. Speculating on speculation is fun, but we shouldn't be drawing hard conclusions yet.
 
Aegies mentioned that from what he heard the Durango GPU was not easily comparable to any current GPU, so who knows what we'll actually get. Speculating on speculation is fun, but we shouldn't be drawing hard conclusions yet.

So another "paradigm" shift like with the 360 and unified shaders or even something bigger? I can't imagine much what would make sense with this statement. Maybe a Voxel accelerator like Carmack is dreaming...
 
So another "paradigm" shift like with the 360 and unified shaders or even something bigger? I can't imagine much what would make sense with this statement. Maybe a Voxel accelerator like Carmack is dreaming...
which isn't GPU related but FPGA which is more efficient by nearly 100X for a database search for voxel intersections. I think I have that right. FPGA because the standard hasn't been adopted yet but a console could use dedicated hardware with a standard of their own so FPGA might not be needed.
 
which isn't GPU related but FPGA which is more efficient by nearly 100X for a database search for voxel intersections. I think I have that right. FPGA because the standard hasn't been adopted yet but a console could use dedicated hardware with a standard of their own so FPGA might not be needed.

You could have a custom solution for nearly any problem the question is if it is worth it. If you go with a advanced Kinect version I guess a custom DSP to offload work from the CPU/GPU could make sense. A AES chip for encryption doesn't make much sense in a console unless you use it like the AMD/ARM combination to have a secure plattform module. I currently don't see anything big than Voxels or proper Ray-Cast what really would make a lot of sense in a video game console and those 2 are still beyond reach I guess.
 
Only one thing, you can't compare current retail gpu's with next gen console gpu's per se ... there is a lot of customs things inside them that make them incomparable as you are trying to make.
 
Crosspost:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sonyelectronics/sets/72157632305444674/

Sony keynote stage:
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Other preparation:
8340339864_965a40e1e1_b.jpg


Note the guy on the top left side - the sticker he is handling says something with "4K"

8318760878_bd85a62628_b.jpg

Subtitle for this pic : "A hint of what to expect at our booth" --> Cloud gaming? (http://www.flickr.com/photos/sonyelectronics/8318760878/sizes/l/in/set-72157632305444674/)
 
So another "paradigm" shift like with the 360 and unified shaders or even something bigger? I can't imagine much what would make sense with this statement. Maybe a Voxel accelerator like Carmack is dreaming...

But having special unit for voxels would make game engines very specific and not port friendly, so EA and the likes wouldn´t be very keen on using it. What about special hardware for lighting?. Lighting is a heavy flop eater. If we are talking about voxels based lighting like in Unreal Engine 4 then it would have more sense.

Last gen: we had 512 mbs of RAM thanks to Epic.
This gen: we will have voxel hardware thanks to Epic.

Could be.
 
BRUTE GRAPHICS? PS4 a graphics beast confirmed?

Also, that 4K thing probably says "Discover video/movies/something similar in 4K".
 
BRUTE GRAPHICS? PS4 a graphics beast confirmed?

Also, that 4K thing probably says "Discover video/movies/something similar in 4K".

I guess that will be just some new TV set Sony shows with a 4k Bluray demo - nothing console related at all is my guess.

But having special unit for voxels would make game engines very specific and not port friendly, so EA and the likes wouldn´t be very keen on using it. What about special hardware for lighting?. Lighting is a heavy flop eater. If we are talking about voxels based lighting like in Unreal Engine 4 then it would have more sense.

Last gen: we had 512 mbs of RAM thanks to Epic.
This gen: we will have voxel hardware thanks to Epic.

Could be.

Especially if MS would not have that hardware unit we would only get 1/2 party games that properly use it - so it should rather be something "general" - a improvement of something that was "slow" before.
 
Still, I wouldn't be too shocked if Sony did announce before Microsoft. So even though they most likely have a 2014 launch try can still say they were first out next gen.
 
Aegies mentioned that from what he heard the Durango GPU was not easily comparable to any current GPU, so who knows what we'll actually get. Speculating on speculation is fun, but we shouldn't be drawing hard conclusions yet.
I have a feeling that the Durango GPU is going to be a much more engineered, efficient architecture which is why it's not comparable to other GPUs. It may also have a lot of specialized elements, like output to a surface tablet or that augmented reality patent. These things will get engineers way more excited than just high clock speed. I'm betting the final results will be comparable in terms of game performance, Sony's solution will just be more brute force instead of specialized.
 
I have a feeling that the Durango GPU is going to be a much more engineered, efficient architecture which is why it's not comparable to other GPUs. It may also have a lot of specialized elements, like output to a surface tablet or that augmented reality patent. These things will get engineers way more excited than just high clock speed. I'm betting the final results will be comparable in terms of game performance, Sony's solution will just be more brute force instead of specialized.
I kinda think Orbis "of the eye" indicates that Sony is ALSO very committed to AR. The last third of this Sony PDF is all about AR. http://www.semicontaiwan.org/en/sites/semicontaiwan.org/files/SiP 3D IC_Teiji_Yutaka_SONY.pdf
 
As a long time AMD fan since the Athlon days its not easy to admit that the A10 is weaksauce

The laptop version is great but the desktop version can be beaten with a cheaper i3, and the GPU is alright for laptops and HTPCs since you probably wont be doing any Hidef gaming on those, and for mid settings its alright, but anything above that and it starts to choke.

Now what could happen here is that Sony is working on an A10 with a highend GPU, like a 8850 or 8870 in which case it would be both powerful and cheap, so PS4 could be $299

That would seriously undercut the Nextbox, who wouldn't get a true nextgen console for that price?
 

Well, other thread said those meeting are dedicated to briefing retailers about upcoming games, which would suggest no PS4 reveal. HOWEVER, if Sony plans to release PS4 this year then at this meeting they should also inform about planned games for it, so - indirectly - that would be kind of PS4 announcement, right? Unless there's no launch titles planned, hehe :)
 
Well, other thread said those meeting are dedicated to briefing retailers about upcoming games, which would suggest no PS4 reveal. HOWEVER, if Sony plans to release PS4 this year then at this meeting they should also inform about planned games for it, so - indirectly - that would be kind of PS4 announcement, right? Unless there's no launch titles planned, hehe :)

If PS4 is not revealed before Destination PlayStation, it won't be discussed there, except perhaps in closed meetings with NDA-ed partners. Regardless of whether it's coming this year or not in the US. They can use the event to push Vita and PS3, which still have a lot of business to do this year.
 
Well, other thread said those meeting are dedicated to briefing retailers about upcoming games, which would suggest no PS4 reveal. HOWEVER, if Sony plans to release PS4 this year then at this meeting they should also inform about planned games for it, so - indirectly - that would be kind of PS4 announcement, right? Unless there's no launch titles planned, hehe :)

The only way I see anything PS4 at Destination Playstation is if the PS4 is revealed before at say a Playstation meeting at the end of this month.
 
There is no way the PS4 is not revealed within the next 2-3 months but Jan. is a bit early.

But Vita..and Aegies said that he expects big things from Destination Playstation. Assuming the big things are PS4 related, then the reveal would have to be before the 25th of February.

OK, probably reading too much into this........
 
The only way I see anything PS4 at Destination Playstation is if the PS4 is revealed before at say a Playstation meeting at the end of this month.

Destination Playstation is an event for retailers, basically it's the kind of event to tell retailers that a new year of great releases and business opportunities is about to start :D
Last year they announced LBP Karting and GOW Ascension under NDA.
This year they have a lot of big PS3 titles to promote, they have to come up with something to prove that Vita is not dead so I expect announcements in this sense.
About PS4 I doubt they'll share specific details but they could confirm that the platform will be announced later this year and retailers could be notified to expect the launch this year (if it's happening).
 
But Vita..and Aegies said that he expects big things from Destination Playstation. Assuming the big things are PS4 related, then the reveal would have to be before the 25th of February.

OK, probably reading too much into this........
Maybe a meeting with NDA'd partners but not a public reveal,i don't think the vita comparison is too apt personally.
 
Destination Playstation is an event for retailers, basically it's the kind of event to tell retailers that a new year of great releases and business opportunities is about to start :D
Last year they announced LGB Karting and GOW Ascension under NDA.
This year they have a lot of big PS3 titles to promote, they have to come up with something to prove that Vita is not dead so I expect announcements in this sense.
About PS4 I doubt they'll share specific details but they could confirm that the platform will be announced later this year and retailers could be notified to expect the launch this year (if it's happening).

I know but I just can't see Sony even giving vague details to drunk retailers before announcing the thing themselves first.

Plus I want the announcement by the end of this month!
 
But Vita..and Aegies said that he expects big things from Destination Playstation. Assuming the big things are PS4 related, then the reveal would have to be before the 25th of February.

OK, probably reading too much into this........

Aegis also said that next gen games are going to be shown at VGA - we know how that turned out.
 
I know but I just can't see Sony even giving vague details to drunk retailers before announcing the thing themselves first.

Plus I want the announcement by the end of this month!

They would just tell retailers that 2013 will see the announcement (and release?) of a new platform on their side. Basically a non news, just a tease :D
About the actual announcement, things need to be carefully planned.
Ideally they would need to find a spot where they can have all the coverage for themselves for a while without giving their competitors enough time to react to their announcements and downplay them and still being fresh in the mind of people when the competition makes their move.
Basically if Microsoft is confirmed within the industry to announce at E3, I wouldn't expect a PS4 announcement before late April at a dedicated press event.
 
So, the MS thread first buzzed into life and is pretty much burning hot with indirect leaks left and right while Sony remains quiet with PS4... or as now joked by peeps, PS4K.

I was wondering, can PS4 go for 4GB GDDR5 ram dedicated completely to gaming and 1-2GB DDR3/LPDDR3 for OS functionality?
 
They can go for whatever they like. Doesn't mean it will be financially viable.

On a side note, I don't think the jump in the next 10 years will be as high as it has been in the last 10. The jumps are costlier.

I'm really interested in what Sony have planned for ps4 controller wise or 3d wise or VR glasses wise.
 
So, the MS thread first buzzed into life and is pretty much burning hot with indirect leaks left and right while Sony remains quiet with PS4... or as now joked by peeps, PS4K.

I was wondering, can PS4 go for 4GB GDDR5 ram dedicated completely to gaming and 1-2GB DDR3/LPDDR3 for OS functionality?

I've been searching high and low and couldn't find price for GDDR5. Mostly it's being mentioned as expensive and maximum of 2GB in a console system is being mentioned as feasible. However, I'm interested, what is price per MB (or better GB)?

Could it be that GDDR5 is so expensive that 4GB would make PS4 too costly to make? XDR in PS3 was $48 which doesn't sound too bad.

On a personal note, I have to say that I'm really dissapointed in zero credible rumors regarding PS4. X720 is leaking from all sides. Shame on you Sony! How dare you keep your secret project...secret.
 
AMD were comparing Kabini to Intel's Core i3-3217U. And it was only slightly better. Which is a real shame [as we get only crappy first gen tablet performance specs]. But Kabini was working on a 15w envelope even if it is quad core, so who knows what it will look like on 100w+...

erego I have no idea how an 8 core jaguar core beefed up to next gen console standard will look like.
 
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