VGLeaks: Details multiple devkits evolution of Orbis

ghst said:
wildcards:

developer murmurs call comparative performance "a wash".
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What i hope that means is the cross platform games will run equally well on both Durango and Orbis

but if Orbis does end up being more powerful, i imagine Sony's first party titles will run/look better than the cross platform games.
 
B.O.O.M said:
I think PS Omni would be better :D But ps4 > all



Anything exciting coming up from the software point of view? That's what I am looking forward to the most
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NO :( Just a bunch of teases and "Your going to be shocked" and what not. I have only heard that the tech demos are pretty spectacular.
 
BloodMoney said:
As do I.

It's a shame how the current gen went down. PS3 started slow and didn't pick up momentum until the end. That said, Sony won me over this gen with their excellent first party titles. Regardless of how the hardware for the next gen shakes down, I am buying the PS4 because i have more faith in their game development. If they can manage a seller lineup of launch titles, i think they will sell a ton of consoles.

MS is going to have to work hard to get me to buy their console... If it's just another Halo box, forget it.
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Thankfully this doesn't look to be the case next gen.

Lord Error said:
Yes, this is absolutely the case. Fatter API, weaker hardware utilization, first year worse results than a competing console, but next year (just as devs on PS4 are coming to grips to more fully utilizing it...): "buy this new hotness which performs better than competition!". There would be lots of peope IMO who would buy into this.

A major drawback is that hardware price would never go down, and console market is not lucrative enough anymore to be able to sustain continuously high prices of these machine.
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Yeah your second point is exactly why I'm not sure it's worth the risk. They can always keep the older SKU in the stores, lower the price, and branch off to larger markets that way. However I also see this causing confusion with the masses, which again isn't good.
 
i-Lo said:
Let us take a moment to reminisce the days when we were discussing the presence of 2GB for next generation Playstation. Good times.

Now pertaining to the first "deep" leak by VG, I wanted to inquire if anyone knows whether this situation been remedied:
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Latency? Ha ha. Funny you should say that. We were talking about it in the other thread.
Firstly I wanted a benchmark, and not idle specs, so did a rough calculation (from brazo>jaguar alleged difference), turned out to be near enough to quadcore A10 5700k CPU (the 65w) and to some extent quad core A10 5800 CPU. Which I guess is not surprising now, but a nice rough confirmation.
After that looked at gpu, and couple of replies later looked at mods to improve CPU performance. It turns out that the A10 is bandwidth limited. Faster ram has a noticeable improvement on that APU.
So looked at faster ram still, but latency came into play.
Interesting...
 
gofreak said:
Kotaku said there's a RGB LED on the controller.

Someone here said earlier, I think, that supposedly there's a LED strip on the controller (which would probably be 2 or more LEDs?).

How this will work out in terms of tracking that's invariant with controller orientation etc. etc. I don't know.
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Now that I think about it, that could work with the dual cameras... I usually don't trust regular stereovision, that can be too easily fooled, unless it tracks controlled objects like Graphics Horse said.
They can do 3D tracking with a single camera and the big spheres of Move to estimate distances, but many gamers dislike the look of it. Tracking a simple led with two cameras could give the same result, without the "lollipop effect".
That's pure speculation of course... but it would fit in with their "philosophy" of computer vision until now (using traditional sensors and cooperative markers)
 
BloodMoney said:
What i hope that means is the cross platform games will run equally well on both Durango and Orbis

but if Orbis does end up being more powerful, i imagine Sony's first party titles will run/look better than the cross platform games.
Click to expand...

Stuff like that is hard to gauge unless the platform is difficult to program for.

Coincidentally, I don't know of any first party Xbox games that were as graphically advanced as Splinter Cell Chaos Theory.
 
How are we envisioning this "stereo camera"? Would it be built into the console itself or would it be tethered, like the current eye toy, but with dual lenses in one housing?

Could it actually be TWO something's you place on either side of your TV corners?

Is it a time of flight camera?

Pretty interesting. If they have figured out something with tracking small LEDs rather than the sphere-bases Move, that would open the way for much subtler motion tracking. Think Minority Report gloves, headbands for head tracking, etc.
 
BloodMoney said:
What i hope that means is the cross platform games will run equally well on both Durango and Orbis

but if Orbis does end up being more powerful, i imagine Sony's first party titles will run/look better than the cross platform games.
Click to expand...

I hope the days of making games equal on all platforms are soon dead. yeah yeah its expensive to spend so much on one title. It's also expensive to spend so much on so many mediocre games at once.

If I am a multi platform owner, why would I get the same game over and over? Or better yet why bother being a multi platform owner (outside of exclusives)

I want to see attention to each platforms console for each game. Make one game with strong xbox live features and kinect, one with miiverse/wii u gamepad features, one with move/sixaxis/open network for mods, same game but with different features. I might triple dip for the experience.

But making a game equal just means make it powered to the lowest common denominator and develop it as quickly as possible.
 
systemfehler said:
Do you really think heat is the issue for downclocking the memory? I doubt that a 150MHz reduction will bring down the TDP more than 3-5W. Furthermore the memory will hopefully be placed within a case fan anyway so it gets cooled.

I rather take the higher bandwidth especially if my competition now gets really close to my specifications but with double the memory amount.
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Cheaper GDDR5 (they don't need the high end stuff that used for 1500Mhz+) and heats is a huge issue in consoles, look at RRoD and early PS3s. Of course cooling plays into the console size and cost, the less heat there is the less expensive and elaborate the cooling. Compare the heatsink and fans of the first PS3 to the current ones.

Neither MS or Sony want to make another large, loud and hot console that will fail. GDDR5 uses much more power than DDR and thus produces more heat.
 
Sorry for asking at the risk of someone repeating themselves but...

The OP/article seems to be vague about memory being GDDR5. Is this something that's now uncertain?

EDIT: judging from Page 2/3 of this thread, GAF isn't sure anymore either :-/
 
Raoh said:
I hope the days of making games equal on all platforms are soon dead. yeah yeah its expensive to spend so much on one title. It's also expensive to spend so much on so many mediocre games at once.

If I am a multi platform owner, why would I get the same game over and over? Or better yet why bother being a multi platform owner (outside of exclusives)

I want to see attention to each platforms console for each game. Make one game with strong xbox live features and kinect, one with miiverse/wii u gamepad features, one with move/sixaxis/open network for mods, same game but with different features. I might triple dip for the experience.

But making a game equal just means make it powered to the lowest common denominator and develop it as quickly as possible.
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But games are rarely truly "equal". Even games today that have hit close to parity, we still see specific strengths for each platform.

If there is a difference in performance between these next gen systems, it won't be equal on all platforms.

As a multi-platform owner, why wouldn't you just get the "superior" version instead of the same version over and over again anyways?
 
Alx said:
Now that I think about it, that could work with the dual cameras... I usually don't trust regular stereovision, that can be too easily fooled, unless it tracks controlled objects like Graphics Horse said.
They can do 3D tracking with a single camera and the big spheres of Move to estimate distances, but many gamers dislike the look of it. Tracking a simple led with two cameras could give the same result, without the "lollipop effect".
That's pure speculation of course... but it would fit in with their "philosophy" of computer vision until now (using traditional sensors and cooperative markers)
Click to expand...


Yes, but I wonder if there'll be a more limited range of angles at which you can hold the controller relative to the cameras before you run into trouble with occlusion etc. With the sphere you could pretty much angle the controller any way you like, except with the ball turned directly away from the camera, I guess.

Then again, we don't know how they intend this to be used yet. It'll be interesting to see the suggested use-cases for a two handed controller with that kind of tracking. A one handed controller mapped nicely to many things (sword, racket etc.).

Nerfgun said:
How are we envisioning this "stereo camera"? Would it be built into the console itself or would it be tethered, like the current eye toy, but with dual lenses in one housing?
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A cable, two lenses in one box.

Nerfgun said:
Could it actually be TWO something's you place on either side of your TV corners?
Click to expand...
Unlikely, IMO - the system needs to know the distance between the two lenses and their angle.

Nerfgun said:
Is it a time of flight camera?
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No. At least usually you'd have one or the other I think. There are systems that fuse stereo with ToF data but I imagine Sony is looking at cost here and what they actually need.
 
paskowitz said:
How about call it "Play Station". Simple.
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PlayStation? What about the console that will come after it then? I think its confusing. The sequential numbers are much easier to follow and will grab the consumer attention easier. Just see what happenened to Wii U...
 
gofreak said:
Yes, but I wonder if there'll be a more limited range of angles at which you can hold the controller relative to the cameras before you run into trouble with occlusion etc. With the sphere you could pretty much angle the controller any way you like, except with the ball turned directly away from the camera, I guess.

Then again, we don't know how they intend this to be used yet. It'll be interesting to see the suggested use-cases for a two handed controller with that kind of tracking. A one handed controller mapped nicely to many things (sword, racket etc.).



A cable, two lenses in one box.


Unlikely, IMO - the system needs to know the distance between the two lenses and their angle.



No. At least usually you'd have one or the other I think. There are systems that fuse stereo with ToF data but I imagine Sony is looking at cost here and what they actually need.
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So will this be bundled in? If so can it be seen as Sony's cover to Kinect 2?
 
Nerfgun said:
How are we envisioning this "stereo camera"? Would it be built into the console itself or would it be tethered, like the current eye toy, but with dual lenses in one housing?
Could it actually be TWO something's you place on either side of your TV corners?
Click to expand...

It cannot be built into the console, since you would need to place it so that it can "see" the players correctly. Having two cameras linked in a rigid housing would make the calibration easier (you could still have a simple calibration procedure where you move around a single led, but the software needs to know how far apart the camera are).

Nerfgun said:
Is it a time of flight camera?
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I doubt it, they wouldn't need two of them. But then, the old leaks about the MS roadmap mentioned multiple "kinects" too, so you never know...

*edit : a bit late, here... :P
 
BruceLeeRoy said:
NO :( Just a bunch of teases and "Your going to be shocked" and what not. I have only heard that the tech demos are pretty spectacular.
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man your insider is such a tease! :D I LOVE being shocked lol haven't had such a moment at a E3 in a while. Hope it is pertaining to the announcement of certain games + the graphical fidelity/functions of the system

Hope to see some jaw dropping tech demos at GDC at least (or hopefully a PS Meeting event before that)
 
KageMaru said:
Thankfully this doesn't look to be the case next gen.



Yeah your second point is exactly why I'm not sure it's worth the risk. They can always keep the older SKU in the stores, lower the price, and branch off to larger markets that way. However I also see this causing confusion with the masses, which again isn't good.
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His second point is absolutely false. Console prices are still selling between $199-$299 7+ years after their launch. The PS2 by comparison was $129 at this stage in its life cycle. These claims of doom and gloom in the console space are never backed up with numbers and facts.

For example, console sales between the big 3 have sold significantly more than any other gen before. This gen will have sold 100 million more console units by its end than the PS2 generation.

In short, the console market will be healthy and sales will soar and sustain similarly between years 2-5 like this gen.
 
B.O.O.M said:
man your insider is such a tease! :D I LOVE being shocked lol haven't had such a moment at a E3 in a while. Hope it is pertaining to the announcement of certain games + the graphical fidelity/functions of the system

Hope to see some jaw dropping tech demos at GDC at least (or hopefully a PS Meeting event before that)
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Me too man.
 
The way I see it, people in the know are something like this:

S rank: Lherre, Bkilian
AA rank - Proelite, GopherD, BruceLeeRoy (he only makes the best threads)
A rank - MetalMurphy14

Shit rank - Karak
 
Commanche Raisin Toast said:
I this confirms that finalized specs of the retail PS4/Orbis (planned even) are still not known at this point. At least not by any sites reporting on info.

It might be a month at least before we can get leaks on that. I think what vgleaks posted today is all we're going to get for a while. We're bound to get a bunch of fakes between now and then though.
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Indeed, until devkits with close to final hardware are out, it will be all speculation.
It seems these systems will feature really customized/optimized SOCs made to pack a lot of power into a cheap to manufacture device. If stacked memory is being used, the motherboard PCB will be really cheap and simple to make, basically most of the unit will be a single big chip with it's heat dissipator :D
Although I fear for reliability, when most of the unctions are concentrated into a single piece.
 
thuway said:
The way I see it, people in the know are something like this:

S rank: Lherre, Bkilian
AA rank - Proelite, GopherD, BruceLeeRoy (he only makes the best threads)
A rank - MetalMurphy14

Shit rank - Karak
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The only thing I've managed to squeeze from my 1st party friend (two NeoGaf members know who I'm talking about) is "well if you like what you're hearing you will be happy".

Gee, thanks. I'm not friends with him for inside info tho and he knows I can be loose-lipped.
 
thuway said:
The way I see it, people in the know are something like this:

S rank: Lherre, Bkilian
AA rank - Proelite, GopherD, BruceLeeRoy (he only makes the best threads)
A rank - MetalMurphy14

Shit rank - Karak
Click to expand...

What rank is Stinkles, Arne, and CliffyB in?
 
Reiko said:
Stuff like that is hard to gauge unless the platform is difficult to program for.

Coincidentally, I don't know of any first party Xbox games that were as graphically advanced as Splinter Cell Chaos Theory.
Click to expand...

indeed. same goes for ninja gaiden black, stranger's wrath, panzer dragoon orta and a few others.

then again, halo 4 does blow away a lot of the games on 360 visually, so they've obviously upped their first party game.

on topic. the orbis sounds like a real beast. I only hope microsoft haven't bet it all on the wrong horse. I can't help but feel the only reason sony are pushing the boat out so much is because of the competition from microsoft. should that suddenly not be there with them doing a nintendo and focusing on other things, sony won't exactly be as compelled to have bleeding edge tech in future gens.
 
Clay Davis said:
indeed. same goes for ninja gaiden black, stranger's wrath, panzer dragoon orta and a few others.

then again, halo 4 does blow away a lot of the games on 360 visually, so they've obviously upped their first party game.

on topic. the orbis sounds like a real beast. I only hope microsoft haven't bet it all on the wrong horse. I can't help but feel the only reason sony are pushing the boat out so much is because of the competition from microsoft. should that suddenly not be there with them doing a nintendo and focusing on other things, sony won't exactly be as compelled to have bleeding edge tech in future gens.
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The lack of mentioning Riddick is disturbing.
 
Lord Error said:
Yes, this is absolutely the case. Fatter API, weaker hardware utilization, first year worse results than a competing console, but next year
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it is absolutely the NOT the case. Game companies dont have time ($$$) to optimize fully for several different configurations, otherwise PC games would look crazy good.


Close access to hardware is what makes it possible so cheaper consoles output better graphics.
 
Am I the only one that wishes for no cameras, no motion gimmicks, just balls-to-the-wall hardware power to be my primary media center for games, movies, streaming, etc.
 
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