At the resolution they are targeting, with the resources both have, the 720 has enough fillrate for 1080p even in stereo. And when you say buffers, what exactly do you mean by that.
VGLeaks rumor: Durango CPU Overview
- Thread starter DieH@rd
- Start date
At the resolution they are targeting, with the resources both have, the 720 has enough fillrate for 1080p even in stereo. And when you say buffers, what exactly do you mean by that.
dragonelite
Member
Ooh yes forgot i was working with the 16 Rops calculation but yes durango should play 24fps 4K movies just fine.
But the ps4 can do 48fps 4k or 24fps 4k 3D if my im not mistaken
Yeah. Shouldn't be a problem at all for PS4.
A PS3 dev said that MS would double the ram for the nextbox? This is confusing, ddr3 notwithstanding, cos it was Sony that unexpectedly "doubled" the ram for the PS4.
Keep in mind that some folk are desperate for news and/or spec parity so if you could clarify that'd be great.
Hope I'm not just being dense and misunderstanding.
What do you mean by 'match the PS3 8GB' Durango was always rumoured to have 8GB of ram.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/536?vs=549
Its not a small gap by any means i dont get why some are trying to spin it otherwise
Its not a small gap by any means i dont get why some are trying to spin it otherwise
3GB is dedicated to the OS.
So think of it like this, if Sony uses 1GB for the OS, they would have 7GB to play with.
Meanwhile Durango would have 5GB to play with.
You can't get parity with a ram deficit like that.
So its double of what the devs know.
Now, pray tell, why would Microsoft keep half the machine secret from the developers? for kicks? because they like games that don't use the entire final machine?.
This would only effect launch games anyway.
You already know the possibility of Killzone 4 taking advantage of 8GB GDDR5 is probably slim, but it's possible. It's not like this has already happened with Sony devs.
Realistically they would only need to add 2 more GB to bring RAM amount parity.
Just like the double RAM Sony kept secret from every developer?
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Punkster_NY
Member
Expect for the fact that we heard about the 8GB of GDDR5 before the launch it just wasn't from every single site.
But WHY hide it, theres no reason to.
Also, you cannot just go 'double' the system after the event, if they did that they are not launching this year it is far to complicated a thing to design, unless you want another RROD.
out of curiosity, why is the gpu relevant to what 4k video they can support? btw, isn't 2d 4k @ 30hz the limit of hdmi?
edit: we do know that durango plans to support 2d 4k video:
MaulerX
Member
We only start seeing the true power of a system in the 2nd or 3rd wave of games. Doing this wouldn't really change that (if they concealed things).
dragonelite
Member
Doesn't 32mb ESRAM already has a high amount of transistor count like half a 680GTX.
Doubling it would be hard i think. I would say kill the 8gb ddr3 and also go with gddr5.
Take the loss at launch and wait 2 ~ 3 years to replace it with 3d stacked memory down the line this will only get cheaper. And microsoft can probably recover the cost from the early adapters because they will pay longer to use xbox live gold.
Or just suck it up and release midway 2014 or early 2014.
Im not sure we dont have the transition of going from single core system to multi core systems.
That transition was hard as fuck you need to think different, parallel programming is a fuck to debug because its not deterministic anymore with shit like race conditions.
Gpgpu is easy most devs could play with it for like 5 years already and SPU on ps3 is almost the same as programming for a compute unit.
But they still launch late then, a memory interface redesign is not trivial especially with all the move engines.
What I mean is that the original Xbox and Xbox 360 always had a powerful GPU compared to the competition at release.
That was constant.
CPU, Bandwidth, and RAM amounts are not. (Xbox 360 was close to having 256MB of RAM if not for Epic's persuasion)
Unless they had a plan B design, just in case Sony's specs went up
phosphor112
Banned
Doubling ram usage is different from doubling APUs.
Not sure if serious... o O!
Most launch games probably weren't taking advantage of the 512MB of RAM in Xbox 360 though.
They still need to up the RAM amount by 2GB of DDR3 if Sony is giving 7GB to games.
A Plan B design existed, it was called Yukon. A Plan B would not get this far, they have a vision and its Durango that is not going to majorly change based on someone else's specs.
I swear Im going to break out the clue by 4 soon.
That is not a rule of thumb.
That is not remotely comparable to having dev kits with half the architecture.
The idea of having two identical APUs seems far fetched. Unless Microsoft got around the inefficiency of placing a dual GPU system, they could gain more from increasing the number of CUs of a singular die. It's not impossible to follow that path, it's just that it wouldn't be optimal...Far from it!
phosphor112
Banned
UnluckyKate
Member
PS4* dev I know, talked with a friend from another studio that is working with durango kits. PS4 guy reported me that Durango double some stuff.
Really ? Never knew that. Then maybe I heard it wrong or it was kept under the hood as sony ?
dragonelite
Member
out of curiosity, why is the gpu relevant to what 4k video they can support? btw, isn't 2d 4k @ 30hz the limit of hdmi?
edit: we do know that durango plans to support 2d 4k video:
You are sending a frame buffer, it if im not mistaken the frame buffer is 3840x2160 pixels.
The gpu is the hardware that will write to that frame buffer.
So it has to fill it with pixel values that is where the rops come into handy because that is the hardware that writes pixels.
So if you have more rops you can fill those frame buffer faster. And then send that frame buffer to the tv via hdmi.
Yukon is that widely spread internal powerpoint for a dual-soc design, AR glasses etc
Be more explicit and provide more then just 'some stuff', also some proof such as documentation would be nice.
Do you believe anything positive thrown at you?.
Sure, but for devs this was also a huge upgrade and those early games won't use the full potential of the console...
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
You hadn't noticed that already?
He's said he's open to anything being true, because a different rumor he doubted once was true (I kid you not)
He has absolutely no skills of discernment or discretion whatsoever
Unless there's a serious info breach from SuperDae again, I think that's about as much info as we're going to get.
When the insiders told Edge that Sony was doubling their RAM to match the Durango, there wasn't any documentation either, we just had to take their word for it.
Gotcha. PS4 and not PS3 (not that it makes a huge difference I guess).
And doubled some stuff. Hmm. I'd have to guess that wasn't ram seeing as we already "knew" MS going for 8gigs. So I wonder what it is.
Actually, I won't spend too much time on it as the reporting chain on this one is already too long.
gaming_noob
Member
"guek" from our very own Neogaf also hinted at something "doubling". He did not want to reveal any more via PM and I respect that. This is going to be fun.
USB ports. lol
Cool. That makes 3 now.
Faith from a proven source. Do you have any ability to objectively analyse sources?.
You can quote me on this to make 4.
The price is probably doubling.
gaming_noob
Member
LET ME DREAM!!!
phosphor112
Banned
ATI was ahead of nVidia at that time, not only that but the placement of the GPU was "rushed" for the PS3.
Yes. But even on GAF we've had proven insiders completely out of the loop in regards to the 8GB ram change of PS4.
The person that leaked BF4 was unproven and nobody on GAF could back him up.
True. But the Cell was more than capable and Sony took a small hit for that. Getting proper documentation was the hard part.
I heard it too. Something has been doubled. Something "special" apparently. Via pm here and a friend of my brother who works in the industry.
I hope that's obvious enough that I don't get chastised for it.
All that said I'd much prefer a more powerful than rumoured nextbox.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Man, it's going to hilarious watching reality come crashing down around people.
We're already seeing a broadening of acceptable variation in IQ and graphical fidelity, and with more games launching cross-platform that will only increase. Even if the 33/50% specs difference is valid and visible 
n-screen: I'm not convinced it will be a great issue for large numbers of players/buyers. That said, if it :is: that obvious, it won't do the Xbox3 any favours. There are a lot more elements in play here though than just IQ.
n-screen: I'm not convinced it will be a great issue for large numbers of players/buyers. That said, if it :is: that obvious, it won't do the Xbox3 any favours. There are a lot more elements in play here though than just IQ.You know who I'm referring to.
Proelite
GopherD
(Now) BruceLeeRoy
Ilheree
thuway
bgassassin
Are you a dev? Is there something you know that the general public doesn't?
Just curious.
Nah - that's when Phase 2 will come into play...