I've seen other outlets source VGLeaks but I haven't seen any independent corroborating sources.
They can't. Durango doesn't officially exist.
VGLeaks rumor: Durango CPU Overview
- Thread starter DieH@rd
- Start date
I've seen other outlets source VGLeaks but I haven't seen any independent corroborating sources.
They can't. Durango doesn't officially exist.
Tears For Fears
Banned
ms or Sony don't confirm or denies rumors.
SniperHunter
Banned
I just can't see MS letting Sony getaway with a clear spec advantage. All the momentum they have built this gen could be lost if the PS4 games start to look better (first party) or perform better. I expect them to go all out with the GPU, CPU overclocks and then switch with 8 GB of GDDR5 IMO
shinra-bansho
Member
You have EDGE, Digital Foundry and VGLeaks singing the same story. You have lherre and other "insiders." Just as they generally did prior to the PS4's reveal regarding Orbis.
It's funny how the "Stages" a few people have posted somewhat match the Kübler-Ross model.
It's funny how the "Stages" a few people have posted somewhat match the Kübler-Ross model.
Yet many have come out on this and other forums to say they're correct
So MS is now going to delay their system into 2014? Sony probably wouldn't mind. They'll get a 6 month to one year advantage.
Hopefully the acceptance stage will come around early. I can't imagine how unbearable things will be to have a bunch of depressed Xbox fans complaining over an entire generation.
SniperHunter
Banned
I don't think there will be a delay, MS has a lot of $$$ and I expect them to go all out. I wouldn't be surprised if they change to GDDR5 or enhance their GPU.
Tears For Fears
Banned
Miles Quaritch
Member
shinra-bansho
Member
Here: we have anger.
So you want MS to bleed more money just to make their console equal or better? They are making money and I honestly don't see them spend 100 million - 1 billion dollars just to add a better CPU, GPU and GDDR5 memory
Money can't buy you everything. It isn't like MS can tell AMD to swap out DDR3 and ESRAM with GDDR5 and call it a day. The motherboard will have to be completely redesigned and everything will have to go through testing (which will take a couple months, if not longer). So MS can either tweak what they have and launch in 2013 or redesign and delay to 2014.
CPU or GPU could possibly get clock speed boost but they won't be major. Switching to GDDR5 would involve completely changing the board configuration and that would delay the launch a long time. I don't see Microsoft giving Sony a several month advantage, especially if it means missing holiday 2013 and a CoD/BF/AC launch.
Glorified G
Member
Looking at the rumored target specs Durango is clearly a generational leap over the 360 and that's all that really matters. Even taken into account the rumored 3gb OS, the ram dedicated to games is a 7.5 times increase.
I guarantee the people denying the sources of these rumors who have already been proven to be reliable in the past are going to be spinning the specs like crazy if they turn out to be true.
Dreamgazer
Member
All the money in the world isn't going to make the fabrication process any faster. Unless MS plans to screw everyone else out of their production schedules or build their own plants.
AdventureRacing
Member
Lol you actually believe this? That MS would completely change their specs (i doubt it's even possible at this stage) and massively delay their console because it's going to be a little underpowered?
You've spent way to much time reading the hyperbole of gaming forums if you believe this is a big enough deal to warrant that. Your idea would kill any chance of MS succeeding next gen.
BruiserBear
Banned
Apparently you missed this last month.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-spec-analysis-durango-vs-orbis
From the Digital Foundry, February 9, 2013:
Digital Foundry said:
And there is a lot of people doing exactly the opposite.
shinra-bansho
Member
One doesn't need to "fight" for the status quo. It simply is.
Ah, yes. MikeR friend of CliffordB. Special sauce BS for all.
Ah, yes. MikeR friend of CliffordB. Special sauce BS for all.
if Sony is continuing with the powerful Vector Units like what was in the PS1, PS2 & PS3
PS4 could actually end up close to 2X as powerful as the Xbox 3.
I know crazy thought but Eurogamer said
"However, there's a fair amount of "secret sauce" in Orbis and we can disclose details on one of the more interesting additions. Paired up with the eight AMD cores, we find a bespoke GPU-like "Compute" module, designed to ease the burden on certain operations - physics calculations are a good example of traditional CPU work that are often hived off to GPU cores. We're assured that this is bespoke hardware that is not a part of the main graphics pipeline but we remain rather mystified by its standalone inclusion, bearing in mind Compute functions could be run off the main graphics cores and that devs could have the option to utilise that power for additional graphical grunt, if they so chose."
Guy on Arstechnica said:
http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1193497&start=440
& when the guy was on B3D saying that the CPU has been clocked to 2GHz someone asked him about the 2nd chip he called it the "specter vector"
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1714789&postcount=828
I know it's all rumors but every PlayStation has had the Vector co-processors helping out & I don't see why they would leave it out this time around when it's using low powered Jaguar cores for it's CPU.
most devs will probably over look them like they did with the SPE's so it might not mean much for 3rd party games.
also the old VGLeaks page said that the PS4 would be 10X as powerful as the PS3 but the PS4 without the Vector co-processor is far from 10X as power as the PS3 in raw power.
PS4 could actually end up close to 2X as powerful as the Xbox 3.
I know crazy thought but Eurogamer said
"However, there's a fair amount of "secret sauce" in Orbis and we can disclose details on one of the more interesting additions. Paired up with the eight AMD cores, we find a bespoke GPU-like "Compute" module, designed to ease the burden on certain operations - physics calculations are a good example of traditional CPU work that are often hived off to GPU cores. We're assured that this is bespoke hardware that is not a part of the main graphics pipeline but we remain rather mystified by its standalone inclusion, bearing in mind Compute functions could be run off the main graphics cores and that devs could have the option to utilise that power for additional graphical grunt, if they so chose."
Guy on Arstechnica said:
http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1193497&start=440
Poster Blacken00100 said:
& when the guy was on B3D saying that the CPU has been clocked to 2GHz someone asked him about the 2nd chip he called it the "specter vector"
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1714789&postcount=828
I know it's all rumors but every PlayStation has had the Vector co-processors helping out & I don't see why they would leave it out this time around when it's using low powered Jaguar cores for it's CPU.
most devs will probably over look them like they did with the SPE's so it might not mean much for 3rd party games.
also the old VGLeaks page said that the PS4 would be 10X as powerful as the PS3 but the PS4 without the Vector co-processor is far from 10X as power as the PS3 in raw power.
pharmboy044
Member
I can't wait for April 26 to come to get some real specs.
Those seem kind of redundant with the added compute efficiency of the PS4 GPU. Maybe they were in dev kits to simulate the physics processing abilities of the final unit but they just seem like they'd add to board complexity for little benefit.
So what are your comments on PS4 having special sauce according to Digital Foundry?
The recent VG Leaks article on the PS4 GPU cleared a lot of that up. It has a lot of efficiency customization, particularly for compute specialization.
shinra-bansho
Member
We have revealed PS4 specs, with nothing about any bespoke compute unit, which would, as noted above be redundant considering there are 18CUs that can be "freely be applied to graphics, simulation tasks, or some mixture of the two."
Wishful thinking isn't exclusive to the 720 apparently.
SniperHunter
Banned
hmm...we will see what happens
You're really trying to stay in a position where no matter what MS announces you will be able to claim "See? I knew it. I was right."
I mean, look at some of your latest posts.
So you agree that any considerable changes (CPU, GPU or RAM type) would have to be implemented a long time ago considering they are launching this year.
But earlier today you said.
Things cannot change anymore besides clock rates and RAM amount. Most of the Durango design is already locked.
I really don't understand you man.
Yep, you got the next gen fever bad. Playing some of the awesome games that have been coming out recently should help with that.
Going by your earlier posts on this thread today I wouldn't doubt it...
You actually wondered if that B3D guy was CliffyB!
I'm just accepting that Durango is a little weaker, specs-wise. But honestly its games will probably look so close to the PS4's that most people won't be able to tell the difference. And if someone really cares about having the most powerful console, they can buy Sony's.
Hoping that all of the leaked reports are wrong and Durango will see a big boost is only gonna lead to disappointment.
Hoping that all of the leaked reports are wrong and Durango will see a big boost is only gonna lead to disappointment.
Is it not possible that some of the folks commenting on the possibility of Durango spec changes are pulling folks legs? (the answer being, yes). I mean, it's almost guaranteed that KidBeta, Brad, etc. will immediately or eventually comment at the slightest suggestion that Durango specs are different (well meaning though their responses might be); I doubt half the posters speculating actually care one way or the other beyond the amusement value. The "out there" comments don't seem worthy of a response, unless - *conspiracy theory* they're intended to make Xbox fans look desperate! (Not true, I know).
I know these Jag cores are boring to folks in the know, but, about those Durango cores.......
Is there any potential for improved A.I. with these CPUs? And with the custom audio hardware both systems will have, could they be combined with the CPUs for more interesting interactive scenarios?
I know these Jag cores are boring to folks in the know, but, about those Durango cores.......
Is there any potential for improved A.I. with these CPUs? And with the custom audio hardware both systems will have, could they be combined with the CPUs for more interesting interactive scenarios?
I reckon it's an absolute certainty that MS and Sony have tweaked the AMD standard GPU, and possibly the CPU too. Look at the Vita. It's not using the off-the-shelf ARM SGX543MP4, but a Vita specific SGX543MP4+ version. The plus at the end signifies it contains, as yet unannounced modifications. These might be minor tweaks, but would be there to better meet certain goals.
It's also a give that both the PS3 and next Xbox will have their own co-processors / DSPs to perform specific tasks.
These changes from stock PC parts will certainly give benefits and will be done for a reason. After all, they will increase cost and complexity and potentially impact yields. I doubt they will give benefits as stark as major changes, like increasing CUs or RAM size/bandwidth.
Meccanical
Member
Maybe everything is a lie and nothing is true.
If so what's the point of this thread again?
...
Seriously what exactly is going on in here?
If so what's the point of this thread again?
...
Seriously what exactly is going on in here?
XtremeXpider
Member
The security boost at the Microsft buildings was a fail...
Doesn't matter how much money they have. Logistically they can't make big changes at this point.
I would put KidBeta more in the know over Brad though.
lastflowers
Banned
I highly, highly doubt that the security boost was simply about hardware. Now that the WiiU is out, you can just walk into any Nintendo building in Japan...
The one 'rumour' that I haven't seen people discuss is this SA one from the start of the year.
http://semiaccurate.com/2013/01/02/xbox-next720-silicon-production-day-arrives/#.UTaaDFeQiP0
Saying that in order to meet the target retail date, the final SoC will have to be completed and in production by 31st Dec 2012. Bare in mind this silicon will be required for final dev kits, this makes a lot a sense.
As such, there is no room for changes to the SoC. With the PS4 it was different. Even if they were in the same position and their SoC was final, doubling the RAM was not related to the main APU so could be done independently.
All I can see changing with the Xbox specs is changes to clock (possible, but no rumour has suggested this) or reduction of cores / CUs due to poor yields, as we saw with the PS3 and Cell only have 6 SPE* cores, rather than the originally planned 8.
* I can't wait for this gen to end and Cell to die, so Sony can stop stealing my username.
http://semiaccurate.com/2013/01/02/xbox-next720-silicon-production-day-arrives/#.UTaaDFeQiP0
Saying that in order to meet the target retail date, the final SoC will have to be completed and in production by 31st Dec 2012. Bare in mind this silicon will be required for final dev kits, this makes a lot a sense.
As such, there is no room for changes to the SoC. With the PS4 it was different. Even if they were in the same position and their SoC was final, doubling the RAM was not related to the main APU so could be done independently.
All I can see changing with the Xbox specs is changes to clock (possible, but no rumour has suggested this) or reduction of cores / CUs due to poor yields, as we saw with the PS3 and Cell only have 6 SPE* cores, rather than the originally planned 8.
* I can't wait for this gen to end and Cell to die, so Sony can stop stealing my username.
XtremeXpider
Member
Im not talking only about hardware (people believing always online and other stuff).
The Jaguar based CPUs will be solid for next gen, although not nearly as big a jump as other components. Physics processing will likely be handled by the GPUs and audio rendering is going to be done on its own chip so the CPU will just have to do AI and basic geometry calculations so it doesn't really matter that it's not as big of a jump. Jaguar is a good choice for consoles since it's so small, cool, and energy efficient that more of the TDP can go elsewhere and have a bigger impact on improving performance.
I know that a lot of people compare the Jaguar to the Cell and, while it is slower at some functions, it'll be better at the things it has to focus on for next gen. A lot of the stuff that Cell was particularly good at was graphics functions since it was used to offset the crappy GPU in the PS3. With PS4 those tasks can be handled by the GPU itself.
SuperDae is only real person putting a twist on stuff as far as I'm concerned. Otherwise the leaks have been spot on with PS4.
I was skeptical before the PS4 leaks were pretty much confirmed. Only thing I question is the lack of info on what new Xbox will do.
Speculation on VR/Kinect stuff is more interesting than catching the gap between PS4 at this point. MS I think will be differentiating themselves by something other than graphics this gen.
I was skeptical before the PS4 leaks were pretty much confirmed. Only thing I question is the lack of info on what new Xbox will do.
Speculation on VR/Kinect stuff is more interesting than catching the gap between PS4 at this point. MS I think will be differentiating themselves by something other than graphics this gen.
Indeed. But good news: If it's that big a concern for you, I'm sure a lengthy hiatus from all the unbearable complaining here for the duration of this new generation, (until the PS5 is released) CAN be arranged.
Or, hey, you can learn to play well with others and be a constructive part of the discussion. Your decision, in the end.