VGLeaks rumor: Durango CPU Overview

RoboPlato said:
Those seem kind of redundant with the added compute efficiency of the PS4 GPU. Maybe they were in dev kits to simulate the physics processing abilities of the final unit but they just seem like they'd add to board complexity for little benefit.
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maybe it's better at some task than the GPU at computing & if I'm reading it right it seem like Eurogamer is saying that you can use the GPU for extra compute power & use the GPU like chip for extra graphic power. so it seem like it will be just like the SPE's & it would have to be pretty powerful for them to say something like use the GPU for compute & use the chip for extra graphics.

PS2 had 2 Vectors Units about 3GFLOPS each

PS3 had 7 Vector Units (SPE's) but only 6 usable for games 25.6 GFLOPS each 179.2GFLOPS

now PS4 is rumored to have 8 but the specs are unknown but if we go by the jump from PS2 to PS3 the Vector units would be 8X more powerful.


so 8 X 25.6 = 204.8 GFLOPS each

& it's 8 of them so it would be 1.638TFLOPS add that to the 1.84TFLOPS GPU & 104GFLOPS CPU & you have a 3.58TFLOPS Console which is closer to 10X as power as the PS3

I know I look crazy for even thinking this but it's the same way all the other PlayStations have been.

(waits to be disappointed with the real specs of the chip)
 
SniperHunter said:
I just can't see MS letting Sony getaway with a clear spec advantage. All the momentum they have built this gen could be lost if the PS4 games start to look better (first party) or perform better. I expect them to go all out with the GPU, CPU overclocks and then switch with 8 GB of GDDR5 IMO
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Makes you wonder what the point of this whole DDR3+ESRAM nonsense was if they were going to adapt Sony's GDDR5 solution in the end anyway...
 
shinra-bansho said:
We have revealed PS4 specs, with nothing about any bespoke compute unit, which would, as noted above be redundant considering there are 18CUs that can be "freely be applied to graphics, simulation tasks, or some mixture of the two."

Wishful thinking isn't exclusive to the 720 apparently.
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secondary-ps4-chip-e1361421157584.png
 
BruiserBear said:
Apparently you missed this last month.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-spec-analysis-durango-vs-orbis


From the Digital Foundry, February 9, 2013:
Click to expand...

How do you know they don't share the same sources with VGLeaks?

The article here explicitly mentions their information is "over nine months old", the same amount of time it took Sony to double their processing cores and quadruple their memory.

Why is it some people think Sony is the only company able to upgrade their hardware?

As always (and as we learnt at the Sony event), none of this means anything until the official announcement.

Things change. I honestly don't care which console is more powerful (I've actually pre-ordered a PS4), but it's important to be aware that plans change. We are looking at information that is nearly a year old, back when the PS4 was the alleged underdog.
 
iMax said:
How do you know they don't share the same sources with VGLeaks?

The article here explicitly mentions their information is "over nine months old", the same amount of time it took Sony to double their processing cores and quadruple their memory.

Why is it some people think Sony is the only company able to upgrade their hardware?

As always (and as we learnt at the Sony event), none of this means anything until the official announcement.

Things change. I honestly don't care which console is more powerful (I've actually pre-ordered a PS4), but it's important to be aware that plans change. We are looking at information that is nearly a year old, back when the PS4 was the alleged underdog.
Click to expand...

I don't remember a rumour of Sony having 4 CPU cores, only of them having a different CPU that was from ages ago.

Also, if you could stop using the memory example of why 'everything can change' cause otherwise clue by 4. Its different, its not comparable, its been said a million times and it really needs to sink in, using the example of the PS4 and how Sony double/quadrupled its memory is no where NEAR the same as changing a GPU/CPU this far into the game and really you should know this by now.
 
KidBeta said:
I don't remember a rumour of Sony having 4 CPU cores, only of them having a different CPU that was from ages ago.

Also, if you could stop using the memory example of why 'everything can change' cause otherwise clue by 4. Its different, its not comparable, its been said a million times and it really needs to sink in, using the example of the PS4 and how Sony double/quadrupled its memory is no where NEAR the same as changing a GPU/CPU this far into the game and really you should know this by now.
Click to expand...

it was rumor of 4 cores but more powerful ones... probably ending up with same computing power as these 8 cores now... and most likely due to emulate the power of 8 jaguar cores in early dev kits as they were just pc's and AMD doesnt have 8 jaguar cores for PC.
 
iMax said:
The article here explicitly mentions their information is "over nine months old", the same amount of time it took Sony to double their processing cores and quadruple their memory.
Click to expand...

Where did you get the bit about doubling their processing cores from?

The Orbis specs/rumours were always pretty consistent, with the only surprise being the RAM increase. The CPU and GPU side of thing seem to be exactly what was rumoured for a long time. I don't ever remember seeing PS4 rumours suggesting it was only 0.9 TFLOPS.
 
iMax said:
How do you know they don't share the same sources with VGLeaks?

The article here explicitly mentions their information is "over nine months old", the same amount of time it took Sony to double their processing cores and quadruple their memory.

Why is it some people think Sony is the only company able to upgrade their hardware?

As always (and as we learnt at the Sony event), none of this means anything until the official announcement.

Things change. I honestly don't care which console is more powerful (I've actually pre-ordered a PS4), but it's important to be aware that plans change. We are looking at information that is nearly a year old, back when the PS4 was the alleged underdog.
Click to expand...

People also seem to forget the simple fact that Microsoft is in a much better position, financially, to tweak their specs (whatever the cost) versus Sony. Bottom line...if Sony can pull what they did at the proverbial "last minute", Microsoft can easily do the same, and more, while taking a bigger financial risk/hit.
 
Deuterium said:
People also seem to forget the simple fact that Microsoft is in a much better position, financially, to tweak their specs (whatever the cost) versus Sony. Bottom line...if Sony can pull what they did at the proverbial "last minute", Microsoft can easily do the same, and more, while taking a bigger financial risk/hit.
Click to expand...

Jesus christ Deuterium.
 
Deuterium said:
People also seem to forget the simple fact that Microsoft is in a much better position, financially, to tweak their specs (whatever the cost) versus Sony. Bottom line...if Sony can pull what they did at the proverbial "last minute", Microsoft can easily do the same, and more, while taking a bigger financial risk/hit.
Click to expand...

It...doesn't work that way. Time is the primary issue here.
 
Deuterium said:
People also seem to forget the simple fact that Microsoft is in a much better position, financially, to tweak their specs (whatever the cost) versus Sony. Bottom line...if Sony can pull what they did at the proverbial "last minute", Microsoft can easily do the same, and more, while taking a bigger financial risk/hit.
Click to expand...
Poor guy.
 
Deuterium said:
People also seem to forget the simple fact that Microsoft is in a much better position, financially, to tweak their specs (whatever the cost) versus Sony. Bottom line...if Sony can pull what they did at the proverbial "last minute", Microsoft can easily do the same, and more, while taking a bigger financial risk/hit.
Click to expand...
It's not a matter of cost. I'm not sure why numerous people saying that hasn't gotten through.

It's logistically impossible for Microsoft to, for example, replace their DDR3 memory with GDDR5 and still release a console in 2013.

Sony going from 2GB to 4GB to 8GB didn't involve any architectural changes.

All this "upgrading" is premised on the notion that Microsoft are unhappy with their set-up for the next XBOX, simply because their fans apparently aren't.
 
Let's assume the leaked Durango specs were accurate as of the start of the year. If MS are targeting a 2013 release, this is the list of things they can and can't change:

Can change:
RAM - more RAM (adding additional RAM modules to the motherboard)
CPU - clock speed (either got up or down slightly)
CPU - fewer cores (due to poor yields)
GPU - clock speed (either got up or down slightly)
GPU - fewer CUs (due to poor yields)

Maybe possible, but highly unlikely:
RAM - bandwidth (changing type of DDR3 modules)

Can't change:
CPU - more cores (Architectural change to the SoC design)
GPU - more CUs (Architectural change to the SoC design)
RAM - DDR3 to GDDR5 (Architectural change to the SoC design)
 
shinra-bansho said:
It's not a matter of cost. I'm not sure why numerous people saying that hasn't gotten through.

It's logistically impossible for Microsoft to, for example, replace their DDR3 memory with GDDR5 and still release a console in 2013.

Sony going from 2GB to 4GB to 8GB didn't involve any architectural changes.

This is all premised on the notion that Microsoft are unhappy with their set-up for the next XBOX.
Click to expand...

This. Changes in the amount of ram do not equal changes in the type of ram.

The next Xbox will be a great system in its own right. As always the exclusives will make the most of the hardware. Just relax and enjoy
 
Deuterium said:
People also seem to forget the simple fact that Microsoft is in a much better position, financially, to tweak their specs (whatever the cost) versus Sony. Bottom line...if Sony can pull what they did at the proverbial "last minute", Microsoft can easily do the same, and more, while taking a bigger financial risk/hit.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately unless Microsoft is sinking all that extra money into time travel or something similar this is not going to happen, it is no longer about money.
 
Meccanical said:
Jesus christ Deuterium.
Click to expand...

Hey, I will be the first to admit if Microsoft doesn't step up to the plate.

I just have a cordial dislike for unconfirmed rumors as well as the seemingly unquestioned "status" that the start-up VGleaks enjoys here on GAF.

Like I said, I will be getting both systems...and probably the PS4 will be first, given my negative feelings with all things "Kinect".

Nevertheless, the bottom line is that there is only ONE console that has been officially announced, and that we have "official" specs....and that is Sony.
 
Deuterium said:
Hey, I will be the first to admit if Microsoft doesn't step up to the plate.

I just have a cordial dislike for unconfirmed rumors as well as the seemingly unquestioned "status" that the start-up VGleaks enjoys here on GAF.

Like I said, I will be getting both systems...and probably the PS4 will be first, given my negative feelings with all things "Kinect".

Nevertheless, the bottom line is that there is only ONE console that has been officially announced, and that we have "official" specs....and that is Sony.
Click to expand...

We actually don't have official specs for the PS4, they are subject to change.

They could full well counter the upgraded 720 with a upgraded PS4!. (hehehe).
 
Reiko said:
Really? I thought it was 256MB.
Click to expand...

Nope the console was announced with 512MB since the beginning.
But initially it had 256MB of memory. They had pressure from Epic (but also other studios like Team Ninja) to upgrade the memory system and they listened, but that happened way before the presentation.
 
Reiko said:
The ram change was a month before launch. lol
Click to expand...

For the 360's RAM increase? Not according to Mark Rein.

In an interview in October 2006, he says:

"So what happened was, my partner Tim Sweeney, we kept arguing and arguing like, we really wanted a hard drive in every single machine; that was something we really wanted but we realized that the 512 megs of RAM was way more important, cause otherwise you couldn’t do this level of graphics if you had to both write your program and do your graphics in 256 megs. Nothing would really look that HD."

"So we argued, and argued, and what Tim did is he actually sent a screenshot of what Gears of War would look like if we only had 256 megs of memory. So the day they made the decision, we were apparently the first developed they called; we were at Game Developers Conference, was it two years ago, and then I got a call from the Chief Financial Officer of MGS and he said 'I just want you to know you cost me a billion dollars' and I said, 'we did a favor for a billion gamers'."
Click to expand...

GDC is in March, so that means he would have go the call in March 2004. So 1½ years before the 360 launched. Even if his dates are wrong an it was March 2005, that's still 10 months before launch that the decision was made to have 512MB RAM.

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/12066/Microsoft-to-Epic-You-Cost-Me-a-Billion-Dollars/
 
Deuterium said:
Hey, I will be the first to admit if Microsoft doesn't step up to the plate.

I just have a cordial dislike for unconfirmed rumors as well as the seemingly unquestioned "status" that the start-up VGleaks enjoys here on GAF.

Like I said, I will be getting both systems...and probably the PS4 will be first, given my negative feelings with all things "Kinect".

Nevertheless, the bottom line is that there is only ONE console that has been officially announced, and that we have "official" specs....and that is Sony.
Click to expand...

People need to stop saying these rumours are unconfirmed. They're not, they're confirmed by devs using the dev kits, which are already in the wild. Also realise the PS4 specs were dead on the rumours minus the ram bump to 8gb.
 
Deuterium said:
People also seem to forget the simple fact that Microsoft is in a much better position, financially, to tweak their specs (whatever the cost) versus Sony. Bottom line...if Sony can pull what they did at the proverbial "last minute", Microsoft can easily do the same, and more, while taking a bigger financial risk/hit.
Click to expand...

If specs are true.. all they can do is.

Increase the Ram size (ddr3)
Increase the clock speed. (APU)

Anything else.. like create a new APU or change to Gddr5 would involve massive change and Money and time. MS might have the money but as for Time, I would say no.

Sony pulled off the RAM increase is because they always had GDDR5 planned for while. The APU and custom design of the MB was for built for speed with gddr5 in mind, increasing the ram size is not a radical redesign.
 
SPE said:
Let's assume the leaked Durango specs were accurate as of the start of the year. If MS are targeting a 2013 release, this is the list of things they can and can't change:

Can change:
RAM - more RAM (adding additional RAM modules to the motherboard)
CPU - clock speed (either got up or down slightly)
CPU - fewer cores (due to poor yields)
GPU - clock speed (either got up or down slightly)
GPU - fewer CUs (due to poor yields)

Maybe possible, but highly unlikely:
RAM - bandwidth (changing type of DDR3 modules)

Can't change:
CPU - more cores (Architectural change to the SoC design)
GPU - more CUs (Architectural change to the SoC design)
RAM - DDR3 to GDDR5 (Architectural change to the SoC design)
Click to expand...

They could also have a co-processor that VGLeaks didn't know about like Sony has.
 
I'd just like to say I am now officially as tired of the "you can't do that" people as I am the "Maybe they'll do this" people.
 
KidBeta said:
This is not my point, my point is if people believe that Microsoft can radically redesign there console to launch at the same time. Why can't Sony?.
Click to expand...

So you're saying that the PS4 will have hardware BC? Awesome!

Off to Beyond3D to post this great new fact! See you back here in a few hours to discuss their discussion of it.
 
Deuterium said:
People also seem to forget the simple fact that Microsoft is in a much better position, financially, to tweak their specs (whatever the cost) versus Sony. Bottom line...if Sony can pull what they did at the proverbial "last minute", Microsoft can easily do the same, and more, while taking a bigger financial risk/hit.
Click to expand...

People that think Microsoft is going to knee-jerk react to something Sony did at the very last minute need to remember the simple fact that Microsoft is in fact in a better position than Sony to stick to their own original plan and not play the one-upsmanship game. They've been planning whatever they're going to do for quite awhile, and they're not going to deviate from it because Sony dropped 4 gig of ram extra into their console. I'm not saying Microsoft's plan is a winner, or that it will work, but they are in the position to do what they want right now. People that think they're going to go "LOL everything has Kinect in it now!" are either stupid or just wishing really hard that Microsoft would step-aside and give Sony an easy win. Not happening.
 
nib95 said:
People need to stop saying these rumours are unconfirmed. They're not, they're confirmed by devs using the dev kits, which are already in the wild. Also realise the PS4 specs were dead on the rumours minus the ram bump to 8gb.
Click to expand...


nib95, with all due respect, name me one...just one of the supposed "confirmed" developers who is "on the record" regarding this subject. Failing that, name me one who is even "off" the record.
 
Reiko said:
Only issue is money.

Sony going hard with 8GB GDDR5 throws that theory out the window.
Click to expand...

Theres a lot more then money involved in making a console, the sooner people realise the better we will be and the better and more productive and realistic the discussions will be.
 
Deuterium said:
nib95, with all due respect, name me one...just one of the supposed "confirmed" developer who is "on the record" regarding this subject. Failing that, name me one who is even "off" the record.
Click to expand...

Dude, any developer (or anyone else) who goes on the record will get:

a) sued up the ying yang for breaching NDA
b) their professional credibility ruined for said NDA breach

And how can you name someone who has commented off the record?
 
KidBeta said:
I don't remember a rumour of Sony having 4 CPU cores, only of them having a different CPU that was from ages ago.
Click to expand...

Click.

KidBeta said:
Also, if you could stop using the memory example of why 'everything can change' cause otherwise clue by 4. Its different, its not comparable, its been said a million times and it really needs to sink in, using the example of the PS4 and how Sony double/quadrupled its memory is no where NEAR the same as changing a GPU/CPU this far into the game and really you should know this by now.
Click to expand...

See above.

spwolf said:
it was rumor of 4 cores but more powerful ones... probably ending up with same computing power as these 8 cores now... and most likely due to emulate the power of 8 jaguar cores in early dev kits as they were just pc's and AMD doesnt have 8 jaguar cores for PC.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Still an incredibly significant architectural change.

SPE said:
Where did you get the bit about doubling their processing cores from?

The Orbis specs/rumours were always pretty consistent, with the only surprise being the RAM increase. The CPU and GPU side of thing seem to be exactly what was rumoured for a long time. I don't ever remember seeing PS4 rumours suggesting it was only 0.9 TFLOPS.
Click to expand...

TFLOPS were approximately the same, cores were clocked at 2x with half the number of cores.
 
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