DynamiteCop!
Banned
It's not a vague promise, what don't you understand about the Xbox has universally better and more capable computational hardware?
Software... The end.
VGTech's COD Cold War 120FPS mode comparison
- Thread starter Insane Metal
- Start date
Software... The end.
Die Namek Ability
Member
You dont realize how many people are laughing at you right now. Take the L mate.
brownfedora
Member
Your console of choice has equivalent performance to the competition on multiplatform games, fewer exclusives than the competition, and a less compelling controller than the competition.
What reality are we missing? PS5 is going to kick Xbox's ass all generation long. This may end up being worse than last-gen for Microsoft. Ratchet & Clank, Gran Turismo, Horizon, and God of War are all coming...
Last edited:
Yoboman
Member
Because it doesn't, as the games are showing
DynamiteCop!
Banned
Nobody with the least bit of sense would be laughing, you guys are preposterous and are acting incredibly stupid.
Last edited:
SupremeHoodie
Member
1080p is garbage. Even a gtx 1080 can do 120 FPS at 1080p. How do both consoles do on 1440p? Oh wait, Sony doesn't support 1440p. 
Vae_Victis
Banned
In absolute terms, both consoles are doing very well performance-wise in most games (apart from the tearing in Valhalla on XSX, which can be very annoying for some people). If you just want to game, whether you buy a PS5 or an XSX you'll be good. I'll buy a PS5 some time next year, but even if performance figures for the two consoles were flipped, it'd be fine for me either way.
However, the die-hard green team fanboys should really cut the crap and do a reality check. PS5 is doing better, even if only marginally so. People who had a massive boner for months at the idea of XSX wiping the floor with PS5 in multiplatforms should really do some soul searching and realize that you can't by default give Microsoft a free pass every single time or contort your perception to try and deny reality.
If performance superiority bothers you so much, instead of spending hours here coming up with excuses for Xbox and moving the goalpost game after game and video after video ("but this is a bad port, it doesn't count!", "but this is Ubisoft, it doesn't count!", "but it's still a cross gen game, it doesn't count!"), go on Twitter and ask good boy Phil why the fuck his "most powerful console ever", that has fixed clocks because "they care about real world performance, not ticking results on a spec sheet" runs games worse than PS5.
If you don't start making Microsoft accountable for Microsoft's shortcomings, you'll keep hearing to wait for the next E3 for a looooong time still.
However, the die-hard green team fanboys should really cut the crap and do a reality check. PS5 is doing better, even if only marginally so. People who had a massive boner for months at the idea of XSX wiping the floor with PS5 in multiplatforms should really do some soul searching and realize that you can't by default give Microsoft a free pass every single time or contort your perception to try and deny reality.
If performance superiority bothers you so much, instead of spending hours here coming up with excuses for Xbox and moving the goalpost game after game and video after video ("but this is a bad port, it doesn't count!", "but this is Ubisoft, it doesn't count!", "but it's still a cross gen game, it doesn't count!"), go on Twitter and ask good boy Phil why the fuck his "most powerful console ever", that has fixed clocks because "they care about real world performance, not ticking results on a spec sheet" runs games worse than PS5.
If you don't start making Microsoft accountable for Microsoft's shortcomings, you'll keep hearing to wait for the next E3 for a looooong time still.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
They waitied until RDNA 2 was feature complete to build their system, Sony did not. There's going to be a disparity in development tools, not only in terms of general availability but also experience with them.
Last edited:
SegaSnatcher
Member
Cyberpunk will also be getting a true next gen patch next year as well, but yeah XSX should have the resolution advantage early on.
Coolwhhip
Neophyte
alabtrosMyster
Member
It's an opinion (maybe well informed, but df have been wrong on that kind of things before... I suspect they are often too close to their pr contact and it leads them to be lenient with ms... No lies per say, just over reliance on certain things, probably, remember how they parroted the various ms performance excuses like esram 187gb\ dx12 and cloud all of last gen).
We essentially got parity in terms of performance, especially for r the plebs like me who have only a 60hz tv..... So we will have to talk about games, which is going to be boring, ms you had 1 thing to do
.
Vick
Member
Because it doesn't, as the games are showing
I'm in Europe so no PS5 yet, but man, this does look good.
Last edited:
SkankHunt420
Neo Member
Shoulda put resources getting the "tools" ready for their devs instead of a feature 1% of their user base will actually use
bitbydeath
Gold Member
A CryTek dev explained it all a long time ago. No need for guesswork.
[Updated] PS5 Is the Better Console, Crytek Engineer Claims; XSX Coding Can Be Challenging and Its Peak Performance Will Be Bottlenecked
In a new interview, Crytek rendering engineer Ali Salehi talks about the specs of the PS5 and XSX and developing for the next-gen consoles.
wccftech.com
DynamiteCop!
Banned
Why? It future proofs the system, the fact of the matter is this is probably the perfect time to have these kind of software immaturities. Covid has fucked everything up and there's not a lot on the immediate horizon in terms of games, and the ones available now are kind of middling, so it's a good opportunity to mature in the interim.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
This is as asinine now as it was back then. The Series X has trouble reaching the peak of its GPU capability and yet a 2x as powerful 3080 doesn't, or a 3090, or the 6800 XT, or a 2080 Ti, or a 6900 XT and so on and so forth.A CryTek dev explained it all a long time ago. No need for guesswork.
[Updated] PS5 Is the Better Console, Crytek Engineer Claims; XSX Coding Can Be Challenging and Its Peak Performance Will Be Bottlenecked
In a new interview, Crytek rendering engineer Ali Salehi talks about the specs of the PS5 and XSX and developing for the next-gen consoles.
This is dumb beyond words.
Last edited:
SegaSnatcher
Member
I love how people assume that only Series X API will improve going forward. The same will be true for the PS5.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
That doesn't matter, both can improve, and both will, but Microsoft has a higher ceiling they can hit when improvements are made..
bitbydeath
Gold Member
What makes you think those GPU's don't struggle to reach their peak? All GPU's do.
That is why 'coding to the metal' is brought up a lot for consoles as an advantage over PC.
kyliethicc
Member
DynamiteCop!
Banned
Everything is to the metal now, Vulkan and DirectX 12 has essentially evaporated that console superiority narrative. Like for like console and PC hardware end up performing nigh identically when evenly matched.
brownfedora
Member
I'm actually happy. Everyone always says competition is good but I disagree. PS2 was the best generation because we had one platform that was utterly dominant. Devs didn't need to worry much about multiple systems, etc.
PS5 kicking ass right from the get-go will be good for gamers.
PS5 kicking ass right from the get-go will be good for gamers.
Last edited:
Neo_game
Member
Dirt 5 developer: xbox tools are NOT behind
I do not watch his crap but Dealer has got devs in his show lol
So it's the tools & have nothing to do with PS5 having a higher triangle output & pixel fill rate? nothing to do with PS5 having higher internal bandwidth & cache scrubbers? nothing to do with the I/O subsystem on the PS5 SoC? just tools
'It's Gotta Be The Tools
Last edited:
Dave_at_Home
Member
We simply don't have the whole picture with Sony. Need that die shot! I think overall the Series X has the edge, just not to what people think it is, but an edge none the less. Granted, lots of talk about how PS5 manages its cache, which has many benefits across the entire pipeline. That is something not so easily translated into sexy marketing. Smartshift probably putting in work too.
Want to point something out Matt Hargett said on Twitter about DMC PS5 versus Series X comparison vids:
"I mentioned one aspect of the system design choices being different. Imagine when people have more time to really optimize their code/data and hit these caches more often"
Both are so very close to each other and we may see them continue to trade blows in the future. As of right now, my takeaway is Series X may have slightly more computational power, but Sony implementation could be more efficient.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
It's just tools, also your pixel fill rates are limited by your texel rates because guess what, everything has textures. You could have double the pixel rate but if you can't fill the texture data you have nothing to render, so that's a completely irrelevant point.
This is the same issue the PS4 Pro faced, it had higher pixel fill rates than the One X, but its texel capability was starkly less.
Last edited:
Yes losing half their market share was totally people not making them pay lol. The Sony fan boys fantasy of a Sony monopoly is so baffling. You figure winning 2-1 would be good enough to make them happy. Instead this desire to give Sony complete control over gaming with a monopoly to force their choice on others just strange.
You know, looking back at The Road to PS5... the fact that Cerny explicitly said RDNA 2 cu's....and the feature set is malleable (start at the 25:00 mark) .....having the full features isnt some end all be all vs going custom.
Just like the overall design goals, MS and Sony just had different goals.
What would be more concerning is if the PS5 was using RDNA 1 cu's... Since it isnt, its all good.
The more I go back and look at The Road to PS5.....the more things make sense.
HAL-01
Member
It's almost as if different hardware has a different set of trade offs and bottlenecks that hinder their performance to various degrees.
Your adamant defense of the xsx as "superior hardware" is based on a couple of theoretical numbers you don't understand and are worthless without looking at the rest of the machine. As is rapidly becoming my catchphrase, "theoretical performance does not equal effective performance"
In any case, the better engineered hardware is the one that can squeeze the most performance in relation to their specs
eNT1TY
Member
I think everyone knows this or SHOULD, the problem is performance should have never been this close. MS staked most of their pre-launch marketing on X being the most powerful and best performing console and have completely failed at that. No-one cares about the ceiling IN THE NOW. The optics are being set that one console is punching above it's weight class and the other is tripping on it's own teraflops. People will make fun of this and 40 posts in the same thread rationalizing xbox's current failings won't change that, only time will. I do know one thing for certain, you will be there honking when that bridge comes.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
That has little to do with hardware engineering and nearly everything to do with software proficiency. As has been said about a million times software is the driving force of hardware.
The capability of your hardware is entirely dictated by the effectiveness of the toolset you have and the people working with it.
Last edited:
ethomaz
Banned
Exactly.
And people can see example of that in PC GPUs where AMD always had way bigger TFs than nVidia but due the lower efficiency of their hardware NVidia GPUs always come ahead in performance no matter how good AMD drivers/APIs become.
AMD started to close the efficiency gap with RDNA.
PS5 hardware is more efficient than Series X hardware... that can't be changed with better tools/APIs.
Road of PS5 was basically a teaching of how to design a efficiency hardware focusing in minimize overhead and bootlenecks.
Last edited:
SegaSnatcher
Member
And when both APIs improve guess what, the performance delta between the two will not be significant. They will still be extremely competitive. I just hope Xbox fans don't expect this huge gap in performance will suddenly come out of the blue, that ain't happening.
ABnormal
Member
1080p is garbage. Even a gtx 1080 can do 120 FPS at 1080p. How do both consoles do on 1440p? Oh wait, Sony doesn't support 1440p.
You are quite confused about 1440p support. PS5 renders games at 1440p as well, but it upscales it to output at 4k. So if a developer wants to develop a game around 1440p, there's no problem at all.
You just can't select 1440p from the settings screen to output at that resolution.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
Or the actual truth, their hardware is designed entirely different and their architectures are massive departures from each other so their relative behavior to each other is entirely incomparable.
What you're saying is like comparing ARM to PowerPC and then questioning why one performs better than the other with completely different architectures. They're not comparable.
SkankHunt420
Neo Member
Sure, im not saying they dont need to add it, just is not a main priority, the main priority should've be to have those famous "tools" ready for when they released their console, they even gave the console away a full month before realease, stop making excuses, MS has played you again with their "most powerfull console" narrative, maybe its a better bitcoing-mining console, but not a better performant.
Dave_at_Home
Member
Sony doesn't use DX12 (obviously), but everything that RDNA2 is capable of, so is PS5. Sony has those same features but their own implementation. PS5's geometry engine is a good example of this.
By the way, we know Series X doesn't have infinity cache (PS5 may not either so jury still out), nor does it have "pervasive fine-grain clock gating" (which is probably how PS5 clocks so high). Both those features are apart of the full RDNA2 feature set. Series X doesn't have either, so is it not true RDNA2? Of course it's RDNA2 just like PS5. RDNA is just the foundation. Careful of Microsoft marketing speak.
ethomaz
Banned
But that is exactly what Cerny did.
He customized the PS5 hardware to be different and more efficient than Series X and/or RDNA 2 hardware.
In fact devs already said games are not using the potential of the customized Geometry Engine, cache scrubbers, I/O compressions, etc on PS5 yet.
The gap can even increase when they start to get used to the custom units inside PS5's APU.
Last edited:
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
But last gens best looking games were on the Pro just like thus far this gens best looking games are on the PS5
Self High Five
Member
I can't imagine why a delta so close could generate this much discussion. The closest two consoles have ever been power wise are performing identically.
Get a grip folks.
teezzy
Banned
Halo, Hellblade, Everwild, Fable, Gears, Forza, Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Doom, Wolfenstein, etc.
Xbox fans can play 'our exclusives' too. What's your point?
Both consoles are solid af, and I say that as a PC player who will likely snag a Series X down the road, but has no interest in one at launch.
Last edited:
Coolwhhip
Neophyte
Xbox fans can't really play the exclusives card. Half the games you listed were basically still concepts when shown, Halo is likely to be a letdown.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Do we believe that some of the XSX games you listed won't be on PS5 as well?
Shmunter
Member
Dev's leading up to the gen have repeatedly insisted TF as a single measure of performance means nothing.
Even if ignoring the statements, the premise of a System where multiple components work in unison for an outcome should lead one to that basic conclusion you'd think.
Consoles are not PC's with interchangeable gfx cards. They are engineered from top to bottom with a laser focused purpose.
Even if one should pull ahead over time, the difference is looking small enough to not really effect a users experience in isolation. Closest gen yet.
Last edited:
SkankHunt420
Neo Member
You already have the ultimate xbox... its called a PC, why dont just get a ps5 and get the best of both worlds?. I dont understand your logic bud
longdi
Banned
Dirt 5 developer: xbox tools are NOT behind
His response felt like a stealth brag. Like 'at cm, we have a great team, and a great team lead (me), so tools don't matter'
Or why else he compared TR against GoS.
In fact, what does a technical director do ? Earlier in the full podcast, he mentioned his programmers are the smart ones doing hands on with the tools.
Or he also clearly stated the PS5 overclocks to hit that theoretical numbers, and adjust via thermals, what do ya know! He probably get bans here!
Either way, can't wait for the dirt5 showdown.
HAL-01
Member
Yeah, and from all publicly available sources there is not that much of a difference between the development tools. "both coming in hot" according to Dirt devs. According to DF John, xbox is a bit behind but he "doesnt think we're going to see a sudden shift or massive gains", stating that both systems will mature over time.
The only "source" claiming that the tools will get way better, are those conveniently unsourceable John DM's, which directly contradict his public stance.