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[NYCmetsfan]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ber-ceo-argues-with-driver-over-falling-fares

When Uber Chief Executive Officer Travis Kalanick takes an Uber, he prefers a black car, the high-end service his company introduced in 2010. On this particular night in early February—Super Bowl Sunday—Kalanick is perched in the middle seat, flanked by two female friends. Maroon 5's ”Don't Wanna Know" plays, and Kalanick shimmies. He clutches his smartphone as the three make awkward conversation. The two women ask when his birthday is, and marvel that he's a Leo. One of his companions appears to say, somewhat inaudibly, that she's heard that Uber is having a hard year. Kalanick retorts, ”I make sure every year is a hard year." He continues, ”That's kind of how I roll. I make sure every year is a hard year. If it's easy I'm not pushing hard enough."

There's no question that it's been a hard year for Kalanick and Uber—or really, a bad year compressed down into an awful three months. And it keeps getting worse. That pleasant conversation between Kalanick and his friends in the back of an Uber Black? It devolved into a heated argument over Uber's fares between the CEO and his driver, Fawzi Kamel, who then turned over a dashboard recording of the conversation to Bloomberg. Kamel, 37, has been driving for Uber since 2011 and wants to draw attention to the plight of Uber drivers. The video shows off Kalanick's pugnacious personality and short temper, which may cause some investors to question whether he has disposition to lead a $69 billion company with a footprint that spans the globe.

In December, Uber pulled its self-driving cars off the road in San Francisco after the California Department of Motor Vehicles said they were operating illegally without an autonomous vehicle license. In January, more than 200,000 people uninstalled their accounts, and #DeleteUber trended on Twitter, after the company was accused of undermining a New York taxi union strike protesting President Donald Trump's refugee ban. On Feb. 2, Kalanick reluctantly left his spot on Trump's business advisory council to appease the company's liberal-leaning employees and users—not to mention its many immigrant drivers. On Feb. 19, a former software engineer at Uber wrote a blog post alleging that she had been propositioned for sex by her manager and that when she'd taken the issue to human resources, an HR rep had said that he wouldn't be punished, in part, because he was a ”high performer." On Feb. 23, Alphabet's autonomous car company Waymo sued Uber and its self-driving car company Otto, accusing an Uber employee of stealing trade secrets by downloading 14,000 files onto an external hard drive. On Monday, Uber's head of engineering resigned after the company said it learned that he had faced a sexual harassment complaint at Alphabet, his former employer. He denied the allegations.

And the gig has gotten harder for longtime drivers. In 2012, Uber Black cost riders $4.90 per mile and $1.25 per minute in San Francisco, according to an old version of Uber's website. Today, Uber charges $3.75 per mile and $0.65 per minute. Black car drivers get paid less and their business faces far more competition from other Uber services.

Kalanick has a reputation for being ferociously competitive and hard-charging. He's the guy who has bragged about having earned the second-highest rank on Nintendo's Wii tennis game. He's still dogged by the fact that he once referred to Uber as ”Boob-er" because it improved his dating prospects. Current and former employees say he can be empathetic when the mood strikes—or tyrannical when it doesn't. Kalanick loves fighting over a good idea, which sometimes means admitting that his isn't the best one. ”Toe-stepping" is one of Uber's cultural values.

Kalanick is trying to be a better listener. He met with more than 100 of Uber's female employees at a meeting last week meant to address the morale crisis that followed the former software engineer's blog post. Kalanick sounded some of the right notes, standing in front of the crowd. ”There are people in this room who have experienced things that are incredibly unjust," he said, according to a recording obtained by Buzzfeed. ”I empathize with you, but I can never fully understand, and I get that. I want to root out the injustice. I want to get at the people who are making this place a bad place, and you have my commitment to make that happen, and I know it doesn't end there."

Kamel: ”But people are not trusting you anymore. ... I lost $97,000 because of you. I'm bankrupt because of you. Yes, yes, yes. You keep changing every day. You keep changing every day."

Kalanick: ”Hold on a second, what have I changed about Black? What have I changed?"

Kamel: ”You changed the whole business. You dropped the prices."

Kalanick: ”On black?"

Kamel: ”Yes, you did."

Kalanick begins to lose his temper. ”Bullshit," he says.

Kamel: ”We started with $20."

Kalanick: ”Bullshit."

Kamel: ”We started with $20. How much is the mile now, $2.75?"

Kalanick: ”You know what?"

Kamel: ”What?"

Kalanick: ”Some people don't like to take responsibility for their own shit. They blame everything in their life on somebody else. Good luck!"

Kamel: ”Good luck to you, but I know [you're not] going to go far."

The door slams. Kamel drives away. Later, the Uber driver app prompts him to rate Kalanick, as he does all his riders. Kamel gives him one star.

More at link including the video

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ber-ceo-argues-with-driver-over-falling-fares

 

[Johnny Cage]

Savage at that one star rider review

 

[Viewt]

Yeah, it's just been a few too many stories lately concerning how shitty the people at Uber are. I've been a heavy user, but I deleted the app.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

This is a really small thing, but I respect the driver for waiting until they got to the destination to bring all that up.

Uber has all the signs of a company on limited time. They're the face of the industry at the moment, but the wolves are at the gate. They literally seem to take a major PR hit every week.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Well prices are probably due to supply and demand, that's probably not really his fault. OTOH Uber does repeatedly appear extortionate.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

This is a really small thing, but I respect the driver for waiting until they got to the destination to bring all that up.

Uber has all the signs of a company on limited time. They're the face of the industry at the moment, but the wolves are at the gate. They literally seem to take a major PR hit every week.

I've counted 3 in the past 7 days.

 

[navii]

cant take it when ure outside your circle of yes men

 

[itsbenoclock]

I took my first Uber about two weeks ago, visiting my girlfriend in London. It was odd...the app was really convenient but I also couldn't shake the feeling the driver probably wasn't being paid shit, it's a strange middle-ground to occupy: not being able to afford a regular cab all the time but not feeling great about supporting such a shitty company. Uber will ride the wave of capital investment until it crashes and burns in the face of Google's endless money in the self-driving car space.

 

[John Kowalski]

More like über fail amirite

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

"That's kind of how I roll." What a douche and one of the reasons I stopped using them. I now use Lyft or walk to a local hotel where there are tons of cabs. I'd rather pay the higher prices with the latter. Actually most of the time i need a ride Uber is fucking crazy surge pricing so regular cabs end up costing less.

 

[metalslimer]

Uber is worth 69 billion? Holy shit

 

[Hollycat]

Wow... I only get a dollar a mile :/

 

[HawksWinStanley]

This guy sounds like a total bitch. Bragging about how hard he makes it on his employees in front of one of his employees.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

This guy sounds like a total bitch. Bragging about how hard he makes it on his employees in front of one of his employees.

:ahem: independent contracter

 

[Philly40]

This is a really small thing, but I respect the driver for waiting until they got to the destination to bring all that up.

Uber has all the signs of a company on limited time. They're the face of the industry at the moment, but the wolves are at the gate. They literally seem to take a major PR hit every week.

I wonder if they'll end up as a footnote like Napster, did some of the ground-work, but soon replaced by more professional companies with less baggage.

 

[Akuun]

CEO guy sounds like a grade A dickhead.

 

[Zoe]

Wow... I only get a dollar a mile :/

Driving Black?

 

[enzo_gt]

I wonder if they'll end up as a footnote like Napster, did some of the ground-work, but soon replaced by more professional companies with less baggage.

Never thought of it this way, but this seems possible, especially when so many companies still have large investments in similar services.

 

[Phased]

I don't see how Uber doesn't crash eventually. Heavy competition is forcing prices down and the PR hits they take on a seemingly weekly basis have a toll.

I don't think they're gonna reach the self-driving cars point at this rate.

 

[crustikid]

#deleteuber

 

[Randolph Freelander]

I was generally unaware of all the other drama going on at Uber, but I read the full Bloomberg article and will file that away since it's unrelated.

On this, CEO is in the right. (Maybe not the right way of handling the argument, but that's whatever.)

No business is going to drop prices willingly. If Uber had the pricing power to keep prices level or raise them and not lose business (or, in the case of lost business, increase revenue anyway), they obviously would.

 

[RSTEIN]

Not as cruel as AI which will take all of their jobs in the next few years.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Bragging about how hard he makes it on his employees in front of one of his employees.

That's not what he said.

 

[Blader]

Not as cruel as AI which will take all of their jobs in the next few years.

This is basically Uber's endgame anyway.

 

[yanipheonu]

Has Uber always been fairly evil? Or has it simply become more apparent over time?

 

[Micael]

Uber is worth 69 billion? Holy shit

Which goes to show that many times the evaluation on tech companies might not be the sanest of things, considering they are losing billions per year.

This is basically Uber's endgame anyway.

It might not really work out for them, a future of electric self driving cars, is a field where those can easily be considered public transportation and be operated as that, meaning the government might step in and provide that service themselves.

 

[Steejee]

Has Uber always been fairly evil? Or has it simply become more apparent over time?

Yes

 

[Mercury Fred]

Off topic, but the women's voices are totally this.

 

[Chumley]

Don't use Uber, people.

 

[boiled goose]

Competition and likely crazy executive pay. Something has got to give.

 

[NervousXtian]

Uber's a shit company.. but the CEO is right about responsibility.. they didn't lower prices because they wanted too... they had to do it. His attitude was shitty, but then again he was kind of trapped into the conversation with the driver.

Nobody asked the dude to buy a $97k car (or whatever it is he has).

If he wanted to drive a taxi and have some control, then drive an actual taxi. Otherwise you're at Uber's whim on pricing.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Uber's position is:
- Drivers aren't employees
- Drivers are owed nothing, not even a minimum hourly wage
- If you don't like it, don't drive for us
- Also, no one is going to be driving for us in a few years when we have self-driving cars
- Should have invested your money into Uber shares instead of a car, idiot.

 

[sir_kevith]

Uber's a shit company.. but the CEO is right about responsibility.. they didn't lower prices because they wanted too... they had to do it. His attitude was shitty, but then again he was kind of trapped into the conversation with the driver.

Nobody asked the dude to buy a $97k car (or whatever it is he has).

If he wanted to drive a taxi and have some control, then drive an actual taxi. Otherwise you're at Uber's whim on pricing.

I doubt he really went bankrupt too but I think he was trying to quickly send the message that he had the rug pulled out from him. He was probably exaggerating for the sake of argument because he probably would've sold the car and got a different job if his situation was that bad.

I think it worked though judging by that reaction from Kalanick. The viability of his service was questioned and he just got pissed and put everything on the driver.

 

[Seiryoden]

NVM. I loathe Uber and all similar companies. This unsurprising incident has confirmed me in my loathing. Consider who you're giving your money to next time you feel the the need to use this racket.

 

[Christian]

I mean, what are the requirements for a car if you elect to drive Black? If it has to be a higher end car, what person that can afford one wants to make shitty ass money driving for Uber..?

 

[HariKari]

Kalanick seems like a dick that just had good timing, because Uber is full of holes.

 

[EatinOlives]

Uber's position is:
- Drivers aren't employees
- Drivers are owed nothing, not even a minimum hourly wage
- If you don't like it, don't drive for us
- Also, no one is going to be driving for us in a few years when we have self-driving cars
- Should have invested your money into Uber shares instead of a car, idiot.

Uber is the Konami of transportation services

 

[Giant Panda]

I've counted 3 in the past 7 days.

Yes, because you seem to like to find any way, and even disingenuous ways, of shitting on them. Same way with your dumb thread on Tesla and Froyo.

 

[Micael]

Just checked the video, and honestly I know this might be an unpopular opinion, but I found that Kalanick was being pretty calm and trying to explain things to him, when suddenly the driver just accuses him of losing 97.000$ because of him, which is honestly pretty bullshit even if he is in fact 97.000$ in the red or not (almost certainly a lie/exaggeration), its only after the driver does this and keeps accusing him that Kalanick responds more aggressively which is honestly pretty understandable.

Also while I'm not going to say the driver doesn't have a reason to be pissed off, and I can understand him wanting to point these things out to the uber CEO, it is also pretty unprofessional to go out like this on a business partner.

 

[tearsintherain]

yeah don't understand at all how uber is worth that much. they are essentially getting extremely cheap labor from desperate people and there isn't an infinite amount of such people. at some point prices are going to have to get jacked up and people will just start taking taxis again.

there are for sure some people who make a good living with uber, but i view it like mary kay or any of those MLM kind of things - some people are lucky to be in the right place and time and can make it work, but most people will fail and fail hard.

management and some of their employees just seem to be on a whole nother level of assholes'r'us

 

[DodgyGeezerFella]

CEO enters cab with 2 women who don't really know him and he whips out the phrase "That’s kind of how I roll." Standard.

 

[David H Wong]

I wonder if they'll end up as a footnote like Napster, did some of the ground-work, but soon replaced by more professional companies with less baggage.

One problem with startups is that they tend to be the work of one big personality who kind of drives the whole thing when it's small, and the whole company adopts that personality (or at least, their attitude pervades the corporate culture because they do all of the hiring etc). That becomes a problem when these companies try to scale up and go public and they need to do things like, say, actually hire and retain women.

Some companies do overcome it, though - the guy at the top of Facebook is such a douchebag they made a movie about it. Seems like they've managed to outgrow that.

 

[massoluk]

Losing $3 billions last year while praying for sustainable self-driving model to rescue the business doesn't sound like a sound business to me, but I guess Wall Street was hoping for the next Amazon and Netflix.

 

[Micael]

Some companies do overcome it, though - the guy at the top of Facebook is such a douchebag they made a movie about it. Seems like they've managed to outgrow that.

I wouldn't take the movie as gospel on that, even the book it is based off as far as I know is mostly seen from the perspective of the people that sued Zuckerberg, so reality is probably going to be significantly different.

 

[B-Dubs]

This is a really small thing, but I respect the driver for waiting until they got to the destination to bring all that up.

Uber has all the signs of a company on limited time. They're the face of the industry at the moment, but the wolves are at the gate. They literally seem to take a major PR hit every week.

Their entire business model is flawed, seriously it is, and they're buying time until automated cars can be rolled out across the country.

Losing $3 billions last year while praying for sustainable self-driving model to rescue the business doesn't sound like a sound business to me, but I guess Wall Street was hoping for the next Amazon and Netflix.

It's not. This is what happens when you try and make money while not actually doing anything. Uber was bound to fall apart eventually.

One problem with startups is that they tend to be the work of one big personality who kind of drives the whole thing when it's small, and the whole company adopts that personality (or at least, their attitude pervades the corporate culture because they do all of the hiring etc). That becomes a problem when these companies try to scale up and go public and they need to do things like, say, actually hire and retain women.

Some companies do overcome it, though - the guy at the top of Facebook is such a douchebag they made a movie about it. Seems like they've managed to outgrow that.

This is true, but I will point out that at least Facebook has a business model that isn't fundamentally flawed. Uber's been living on borrowed time since it's inception.

 

[TAJ]

yeah don't understand at all how uber is worth that much. they are essentially getting extremely cheap labor from desperate people and there isn't an infinite amount of such people. at some point prices are going to have to get jacked up and people will just start taking taxis again.

And when self-driving cars hit for real Tesla or Google could just step in and eat their lunch at any time.

I wouldn't take the movie as gospel on that, even the book it is based off as far as I know is mostly seen from the perspective of the people that sued Zuckerberg, so reality is probably going to be significantly different.

The book was far from their only source. They optioned and credited it mostly to avoid potential lawsuits. That's just how things go with that type of movie

 

[Micael]

And when self-driving cars hit for real Tesla or Google could just step in and eat their lunch at any time.



The book was far from their only source. They optioned and credited it mostly to avoid potential lawsuits. That's just how things go with that type of movie

Did they got Zuckerburg side? Because that's kind of a big thing when you have 2 sides to that story, one (several) of which are against the guy, and only 1 that is in favor of him, you cannot possibly expect to make a balanced movie without his side of things, especially when most of the closest things you could get to facts are behind NDAs.
The movie is pretty much straight up Zuckerburg is an asshole fucking everyone else, reality is probably not quite that linear.

 

[McLovin]

I drove for uber a few times but I didn't stick with it. Been over a year since I drove for them but I'm still technically an employee. Was about to start driving again but that trump stuff happened so I put it off. Now hearning this I think I'm just gonna delete the app.

 

[Somnid]

yeah don't understand at all how uber is worth that much. they are essentially getting extremely cheap labor from desperate people and there isn't an infinite amount of such people. at some point prices are going to have to get jacked up and people will just start taking taxis again.

there are for sure some people who make a good living with uber, but i view it like mary kay or any of those MLM kind of things - some people are lucky to be in the right place and time and can make it work, but most people will fail and fail hard.

Uber is at it's core a tech company, its valued by market position, brand value, userbase, software and data assets, engineering talent and other connections dealing with relevant parties. It's worth a lot by those metrics and it would be very hard for any other tech company to make significant inroads against them. Longer term prospects are the expected money makers, areas they can branch into, data they can use to gain competitive edges in other market etc.

Uber driving to me is not very different than Youtubing. It's a sorta new societal thing where you work on top of a platform that you have little say in. It can make changes that disrupt you, but you can't really affect it to any strong degree. The trade off is it also makes no requirement of how you operate, you can use it as much or as little as you want. And there's also the question of if these new sorts of jobs must naturally be sustainable. That is, if you quit your day job, do they have any obligation to make sure you have a livable wage? And that is a more difficult question than I think a lot of people realize. Certainly I don't think just because you do something means it must be sustainable but I also expect that they shouldn't misrepresent the work and pay either.

 

[old manatee]

1 star rider review says it all