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Videogame journalism, maths failure mandatory?

B

Bowen_B

Banned
OK, can someone please explain it to me how they rate games because it seems to me they do this:

Could of been alot better, this game is extremely mediocre 7/10
Terrible game, not worth playing 5/10
Absolutely perfect, nothing could be changed to make it better 9/10
Game is total trash, worst game I've ever played 3/10

These days if a game gets 7 or lower we'll label it as a bomb and avoid it.
 
Bowen_B said:
OK, can someone please explain it to me how they rate games because it seems to me they do this:

Could of been alot better, this game is extremely mediocre 7/10
Terrible game, not worth playing 5/10
Absolutely perfect, nothing could be changed to make it better 9/10
Game is total trash, worst game I've ever played 3/10

These days if a game gets 7 or lower we'll label it as a bomb and avoid it.
Click to expand...

Game journalism is pretty much recognized as a joke in most circles, for a million and one reasons.
 
The major video game sites--IGN, 1UP, and GameSpot--all say that a game in the 7 range is "good." It's you board kids that scream "bomba bomba" when something doesn't get a 8.5 or higher.
 
I'd add that most people don't use mediocre correctly. It doesn't really mean bad, it means middling or ordinary, nothing special.
 
The major video game sites--IGN, 1UP, and GameSpot--all say that a game in the 7 range is "good." It's you board kids that scream "bomba bomba" when something doesn't get a 8.5 or higher.
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Good point. Also keep in mind that a 7 might mean that it's a game that has flaws but it still worth checking out, especially if you're really into the genre.
 
MarkRyan said:
The major video game sites--IGN, 1UP, and GameSpot--all say that a game in the 7 range is "good." It's you board kids that scream "bomba bomba" when something doesn't get a 8.5 or higher.
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Except, game developers don't follow their own "Bad/Average/Good" scale. How often do you see a non-shovelware game get a 3 or a 4? When a game is shit, they give it a 5 or a 6, which is supposed to be average. When a game is just decent, it gets a 7, which should be above average.

People started calling sub-8 scores crap because journalists spent years giving crap games scores in the 7 range.
 
I can't help but think I've read this thread before.

That said, I've always figured the 7-as-average scenario to basically take into account just how many godawful bad games there are out there (that most people never play), and that a 5 game isn't really a "good" game so much as it is a "technically" good game. It doesn't crash, the gameplay is "solid", and it doesn't give you herpes. But it's just really, really boring. No shine, no polish, no personality. But also no horribly glaring flaws.

Something like that.
 
GameSpot on 7.0-7.9
A game within this range is good overall, and likely worth playing by fans of the particular genre or by those otherwise interested. While its strengths outweigh its weaknesses, a game that falls in this range tends to have noticeable faults.
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IGN on 7.0-7.9
A good game that has some obvious flaws. Games scoring in the high end of this range might have some first-rate elements, whereas the lower 7s have some serious shortcomings that keep them from ever achieving classic status.
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Couldn't find 1UP's rating scale, but 7.0 does mean "GOOD STUFF."
 
The proof is in the pudding (look at me...journalist using a cliche)...that pudding being the editorial.

Or just check the game out for yourself. It's like with movies...i wont kno if i wanna see a film so ill check reviews...and ebert will have given it a 4 and then five credible newspapers will give it less than a 3. So what do I do? I decide for myself.


Annnnd the movie sucks. ;) Or it turns out to be decent. But my decision to see the movie doesnt begin and end with a review.
 
I wish more places would use my rating system that features penises in various states of arousal as an indicator of the games quality.
 
emomoonbase said:
I wish more places would use my rating system that features penises in various states of arousal as an indicator of the games quality.
Click to expand...

You copied that from one of the porn mags from the stack in your closet.
 
GameDailyBuffa said:
The proof is in the pudding (look at me...journalist using a cliche)...that pudding being the editorial.

Or just check the game out for yourself. It's like with movies...i wont kno if i wanna see a film so ill check reviews...and ebert will have given it a 4 and then five credible newspapers will give it less than a 3. So what do I do? I decide for myself.


Annnnd the movie sucks. ;) Or it turns out to be decent. But my decision to see the movie doesnt begin and end with a review.
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Yeah, shut the fuck up.

If I want to see a movie it'll cost me £3-10 if I want to buy a game it'll cost me £20-55 so when I'm in a toss-up between two movies I may see both but I can't afford do that with $90 purchases.
When considering unfamiliar games it would be nice to know which is better so a realistic rating system would be useful.


On the grading schemes obviously it says that but we've all seen the reviews if a game is terrible it gets a 5, if it's about half and half it's a 7
A bare bones game should not be a 5 just because there is a game!
You wouldn't give a movie 5/10 just because it was 112 minutes long!!
 
Shabaz said:
You copied that from one of the porn mags from the stack in your closet.
Click to expand...

No I didn't. I didn't know porn magazines reviewed video games. The only porn I get is stuff I download.
 
Videogame journalism is broken, plain and simple. Every single game critic I've read has shown signs one time or another of complete idiocy and illogical thinking (and no, I'm not talking about rating a game too high/low), and it's pretty damn pathetic that there is not a single videogame journalist working today that I would say is on the same level as even the 50th best film critic.

Accept this fact, enjoy any content you read for the occasionally informative quip, and move on. You'll be much happier with your life.

Until all gaming sites abolish their laughably broken out-of-10 rating scales and quit loving all over every preview/first impression/eyes-on of games like PR clockwork, I suggest you heed the above advice.
 
in this thread, we reiterate shitty arguments and ignore that our perception (and most reviewers') is similar to a school grading system
 
Yeah, shut the fuck up.

If I want to see a movie it'll cost me £3-10 if I want to buy a game it'll cost me £20-55 so when I'm in a toss-up between two movies I may see both but I can't afford do that with $90 purchases.
When considering unfamiliar games it would be nice to know which is better so a realistic rating system would be useful.


On the grading schemes obviously it says that but we've all seen the reviews if a game is terrible it gets a 5, if it's about half and half it's a 7
A bare bones game should not be a 5 just because there is a game!
You wouldn't give a movie 5/10 just because it was 112 minutes long!!
Click to expand...

And i wouldnt give Ikaruga a 5/10 bc its only about an hour or two long.

And rent your games. Damn!
 
On a serious note I actually think the best role of game reviewing is from forums such as GAF. Here you get many ppl's unbiased love or hatred of a game, and when you buy it and don't agree you can attack them personally. It's a mostly flawless system IMO.
 
Though I value user reviews combined with major news sites much more than numbers, for me, it all comes down to getting the most 'bang' for my buck.
 
Just read the review then. Like most problems in life, the solution's pretty fucking simple, but I suppose it's more enjoyable to bitch than seek a quick, painless solution.
 
Just read the review then. Like most problems in life, the solution's pretty fucking simple, but I suppose it's more enjoyable to bitch than seek a quick, painless solution.
Click to expand...

People put too much stock into these numbers. There are games where, had I paid attention to the scores, I would have missed out on fun gameplay experiences.
 
GameDailyBuffa said:
Actually reading the editorial helps. Sometimes. ;)
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A new low has been reached, viral marketing for online gaming journalism?
Just go back to typing up your shitty articles and giving blow jobs to the EA PR team, your writing style is showing through in your posts.

For a professional writer you should be making some hilarious threads or posing thought provoking questions instead you whore yourself out to us expecting us to say "Wow, what a friendly fellow maybe there's a great community at his site." If your job were to write well, you obviously wouldn't be qualified.
Just as well you're a videogame journalist.

What are you thinking by joining a videogame message board on the internet?!
Gay, black, liberals are more welcome in KKK meetings than you are here.
 
A new low has been reached, viral marketing for online gaming journalism?
Just go back to typing up your shitty articles and giving blow jobs to the EA PR team, your writing style is showing through in your posts.

For a professional writer you should be making some hilarious threads or posing thought provoking questions instead you whore yourself out to us expecting us to say "Wow, what a friendly fellow maybe there's a great community at his site." If your job were to write well, you obviously wouldn't be qualified.
Just as well you're a videogame journalist.

What are you thinking by joining a videogame message board on the internet?!
Gay, black, liberals are more welcome in KKK meetings than you are here.
Click to expand...

You are a funny fellow. But I think I like it here. I think I may stay for a spell. lol
 
Video game reviews do not encompass the whole of video game journalism.
But since the thread seems to be about reviews, I'll give my 2 cents.

Video games should be scored on a technical and artistic level.
However, this is not easy to do since many game journalists aren't highly skilled artists or video game programmers or both. How can one expect a reviewer to be highly skilled in music, sound design, art design, computer programming, etc to a level that would make him or her capable of giving a game an absolute score? And how can you, the player, pretend to also be skilled enough in all these areas to claim the reviewer as wrong?

Now I'm not taking up for reviewers, only the antichrist would give Jade Empire a 9.9 out of 10. I'm just saying who is to say who is right and who is wrong? Let's look at BLACK. Have the reviews for it been fair? I think so.. let's do a mini review and find out.

Graphics = 9.5
(Sure on a technical level it deserves an 11, but on an artistic level we can't really go that high with this game.)

Sound = 10
(It not only is technicaly astounding in the sound department it also has a wonderful score)

Gameplay = 8.5?
(Could you really score it lower than that because it is short and doesn't have online play? I don't think so. It being a short game doesn't effect the fun I'm having with level 4. And not having online play isn't making the single player experience suck. Now, I could count off for dumb A.I.)

Value = 5 <- There we go..
(Here is where we can count off for it costing a little too much, being short and having little replay value.)

Final score = 8.25 in my book.

"Ohh noes" the gamers say.
"It's a rip off cause it was short and it has not lived up to the hype."

Did I review it on Hype?
Do you see a Hype score?
Does value count more than graphics and sound?
The answer is NO for all three questions.


As for how do you know if a game sucks based on the final score?
You just need to look at the individual scores and see what matter most to you. For instance, I thought Primal for PS2 was amazing, but many reviewers scored the game a 6 out of 10. However, if you look at the way the review would break down that isn't too far off the mark.

Graphics = 9
Sound = 9
Gameplay = 5 (battle system was clunky, the game had glitches that could ruin your save file, plus many other little problems. It did have a nice story and it was told well although it wasn't anything new.)
Value = 3 (not much to do after you beat the game, and the game wasn't all that long either. It was a full $50 as well. Some people may be turned off by the clunky battle stystem and the game could potentially screw up your memory card.)

Final score = 6.5
I didn't care about the value score, I was wanting a good story and was interested in seeing the PS2 have pretty graphics. The game featured amazing water, had bump mapping, and one really hot looking main character. So the game ended up being a nice 7.7 for me.

(Wow, I can't believe I was geeky enough to write that much today. Guess when you are sick with the flu and bored to death you do strange things)
 
Yusaku said:
If I got a 5/10 on school exam did I do well? No, I failed. 70% as "average" makes a lot of sense.
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I was unaware video game journalism was run by a school. Man, I'd better study up for the mid-term...
 
I would so love it if games got letter grades. I think everyone understands what a "C+" game means, a lot more so than a "7.6". Parsing tenths of a point and assigning meanings/conspiracy theories to IGN's 8.3 vs. Gamespot's 8.6 is a waste of time.
 
Bowen_B said:
A new low has been reached, viral marketing for online gaming journalism?
Just go back to typing up your shitty articles and giving blow jobs to the EA PR team, your writing style is showing through in your posts.

For a professional writer you should be making some hilarious threads or posing thought provoking questions instead you whore yourself out to us expecting us to say "Wow, what a friendly fellow maybe there's a great community at his site." If your job were to write well, you obviously wouldn't be qualified.
Just as well you're a videogame journalist.

What are you thinking by joining a videogame message board on the internet?!
Gay, black, liberals are more welcome in KKK meetings than you are here.
Click to expand...
Actually, we tend to welcome all kinds around here. That is, unless you want to violate the Terms of Service, which personal assaults tend to do. Settle down, and don't bother posting again until you've pulled your foot out of your mouth and actually know what you're talking about.
 
Campster said:
Game journalism is pretty much recognized as a joke in most circles, for a million and one reasons.
Click to expand...


Yes, I'm sure the New York Literatti are talking about it right now.



Game journalism is pretty much recognized as a joke by forum posters who wish they were doing it and assume they could do better.
Click to expand...


Fixed.
 
Stinkles said:
Yes, I'm sure the New York Literatti are talking about it right now.
Click to expand...

Please. By "most circles" I mean anyone who doesn't get offended or euphoric over Famitsu review score numbers. No one at all is talking about it because to anyone else it's less than mentionable.

To be fair, I may be asking too much - most people want reviews to be little more than a buying guide - Is Counter Strike Clone 36 or Mega Man X43 really worth $60 on my next-gen system? And even as a buying guide, reviews are clearly broken - idiotic things like decimal reviews on a 10 point scale are arbitrary and not helpful, there are problems with money trading hands in exchange for good scores, etc.

But really, I'm looking for something more literary and I've yet to find a decent source of critical reviews. Game reviewers don't mention things like how Deus Ex: Invisible War's unification of ammunition into a single resource was done to encourage player expression in the game space. And that's just interpretation of mechanics, nevermind thematic content or interesting readings. Fable's morality system sucked, but because it was a system based on absolutes it may well have been itself a commentary on moral codes that are too stringent, or even a statement in favor of moral relativity, but you'll never see something like that brought up in a buying guide that gave it a 7.3 and told you that the water was pretty.
 
Campster said:
But really, I'm looking for something more literary and I've yet to find a decent source of critical reviews. Game reviewers don't mention things like how Deus Ex: Invisible War's unification of ammunition into a single resource was done to encourage player expression in the game space. And that's just interpretation of mechanics, nevermind thematic content or interesting readings. Fable's morality system sucked, but because it was a system based on absolutes it may well have been itself a commentary on moral codes that are too stringent, or even a statement in favor of moral relativity, but you'll never see something like that brought up in a buying guide that gave it a 7.3 and told you that the water was pretty.
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Google is your friend:
http://www.google.ca/search?hs=74X&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=tim+rogers+and+a+bunch+of+bullshit+pretentious+pseudo-psychological+analysis+of+video+games&btnG=Search&meta=
 
Somethingblah Cock said:
...but that's essentially what you posted. Invisible War was a suck ass game anyway. 6.5
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Well, if intellectual discussion about game design concepts automatically equals babbling bullshit about how Hideo Kojima is a postmodern master of art and science, and how Metal Gear Solid cannot fail at anything it attempts, then I guess by your definition I was.

I will state this as clearly as possible: I want serious, literary-critique style academic analysis of games from a ludologist's perspective. I've read more books and attended more lectures and symposiums on theory than I can count, but none that attempts to assess the failing or success of a game or system from a perspective that wasn't the creator's.
 
SuperPac said:
You sure you're not looking for pretentious bullshit?
Click to expand...

It's good to see anti-intellectualism is still alive and well in the gaming community, as it has been since about the time Chris Crawford left.
 
Campster said:
It's good to see anti-intellectualism is still alive and well in the gaming community, as it has been since about the time Chris Crawford left.
Click to expand...


What you're actually looking for, is someone who agrees with your opinion and shares your exact taste, in telegraphed sentences that seldom make concise or objective points. There are several places for this. GAF is plainly not one of them.

I've read more books and attended more lectures and symposiums on theory than I can count,
Click to expand...

And if you can't count the number of lectures you've been to, you shouldn't be giving them, and certainly not with a subject line that impunes the mathematical skills of its skewer items.
 
Campster said:
I will state this as clearly as possible: I want serious, literary-critique style academic analysis of games from a ludologist's perspective. I've read more books and attended more lectures and symposiums on theory than I can count, but none that attempts to assess the failing or success of a game or system from a perspective that wasn't the creator's.
Click to expand...

Movies and television have been around far longer than videogames, yet rarely are reviews for their shows scholarly because the demand simply isn't there. Reviews tend to reflect their audience; as gaming becomes more sophisticated, so will the reviews. Until then, it's unreasonable to demand mainstream reviews take on an intellectual viewpoint since the audience isn't there.

I suggest you visit the highly-specialized websites/communities that exist for people such as yourself. Here's a list of decent sites, straight from my bookmarks, that should serve as a good starting point. Videogame design/theory books will serve you well too.

http://ludology.org/index.php
http://www.academic-gamers.org/
http://www.plasmafire.org/
http://www.gamestudies.org/
http://www.joystick101.org/
http://terranova.blogs.com/
http://www.eternalgamer.com/play/
http://grandtextauto.gatech.edu/
http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/
http://www.ludonauts.com/
http://www.dot-brain.com/
http://www.costik.com/weblog/
http://www.digra.org/
http://www.academic-gamers.org/
http://www.buzzcut.com/

And if you're already going to sites like these and conversing with like-minded individuals at intellectual gaming communities, too bad -- this is all you get!

edit: here's an excerpt from a typical review you'll find on one of these sites:
A Review by Chico Quieroz

Genre: Management / tycoon.
Target audience: Casual/family market.
Relevant info: 3D sequel of highly successful franchise.
Introduction

The objective of this essay is to evaluate the game Roller Coaster Tycoon 3, and more specifically how it enables and deals with creative videogame play.

It can be argued that every game play – electronic or otherwise – is a creative act. After all, the game outcomes are heavily influenced by the player’s interaction, which transforms the game experience according to his performance. However, I will borrow a definition from game designer Ernest Adams and say that creative play “means play that enables you to point at something in the game and say, “Look – I made that.” (Adams, 2005).

Creative play is about inventive, productive and constructive activities within the game world – opposed to a sort of more competitive gameplay, focused on the antagonism player-computer or player-player.

How are games embracing and supporting creative play? Roller Coaster Tycoon 3, a game where the main player’s occupation is building and maintaining, deserves this kind of analysis.
Click to expand...
http://www.academic-gamers.org/reviews.shtml?rctycoon_review.html
 
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