VLTTP: Super Mario Sunshine!

PhoReal said:
Without a doubt. What competition did it even have? Blinx? Billy Hatcher?
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It had DK Jungle Beat, which totally bests it I might add, COMBO PLATFORMING, that idea is pure magic and it's criminal to me that no one has tackled this idea again.

And while I haven't played it since its release Jak and Daxter was a pretty solid contender if my memory hasn't betrayed me, I don't speak of its shoddy sequel though.
 
_woLf said:
Or, you know, it was Nintendo trying to do something new. God forbid they ever try that for their franchises!

Galaxy is okay, but it's no where near Mario 64 or Sunshine.
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But they weren't trying to do something new, they were trying to emulate the success of GTA.
 
Conor 419 said:
Nah man, it was clear that Sunshine was heavily influenced by Nintendo's fear of the PS2/GTA3, as a result they tried to make the game competitive with the GTA titles.

- Shitty Voice Acting
- Shitty, 'Mature' plot trying to emulate 'The Wire'. Failed attempt of including political intrigue, abduction and the protagonist being framed for crimes they didn't commit, in a Mario game.
- Forcing Mario into trying to make something of himself in a setting where he's villified, play on 'The American Dream'.
- Giving Mario a gun
- Open world, urbanised setting which tried too hard to be Rio de Janeiro/City of God but failed spectacularly.
- Trying to make the villains sympathetic because of some fucked up belief that Peach is Jr's mother.

It was so bad, Galaxy saved the IP.
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What is this?
 
Speaking of GTA open world, being able to spot different stages across areas of the map was pretty neat, makes me wish the game was actually fully open world and you could use the turbo nozzle to blitz across the sea from Delfino Plaza to one of the beach stages, of course that would require them to actually make use of the turbo nozzle.
 
Nocturnowl said:
It had DK Jungle Beat, which totally bests it I might add, COMBO PLATFORMING, that idea is pure magic and it's criminal to me that no one has tackled this idea again.

And while I haven't played it since its release Jak and Daxter was a pretty solid contender if my memory hasn't betrayed me, I don't speak of its shoddy sequel though.
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Jungle Beat was indeed amazing. I wouldn't personally place it in the same league as Mario Sunshine, but it was without a doubt a great game.
 
tiggerkiddo said:
Sounds like the Super Guide to me. And I wouldn't be that harsh. The FLUDD isn't easy to get down but boy is it worth it when you're fluid with it.
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it is probably being too harsh, but it eliminated a lot of the difficulty. and i think the existence of the hover nozzle means they didn't focus as much on getting the precision exactly right when Mario is WITHOUT the FLUDD because they knew players had a crutch most of the time
 
Conor 419 said:
Nah man, it was clear that Sunshine was heavily influenced by Nintendo's fear of the PS2/GTA3, as a result they tried to make the game competitive with the GTA titles.

- Shitty Voice Acting
- Shitty, 'Mature' plot trying to emulate 'The Wire'. Failed attempt of including political intrigue, abduction and the protagonist being framed for crimes they didn't commit, in a Mario game.
- Forcing Mario into trying to make something of himself in a setting where he's villified, play on 'The American Dream'.
- Giving Mario a gun
- Open world, urbanised setting which tried too hard to be Rio de Janeiro/City of God but failed spectacularly.
- Trying to make sympathetic villains, implied sex scene.

It was so bad, Galaxy saved the IP.
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WTF were you smoking when you interpreted the things in Sunshine this way?

Both Sunshine and Mario 2 are severely underrated for being somewhat different from the expected, but they're both pretty good games. All the things I found tedious about Sunshine (mostly collectathoning) I find tedious about all the 3d marios.
 
Conor 419 said:
But they weren't trying to do something new, they were trying to emulate the success of GTA.
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I honestly have no idea how you're able to jump to those conclusions, at all. Any game with a "gun" in it is copying GTA then, I guess. Even if there's no cars.

Can't believe you're actually serious about this.

GMN said:
yeah, all that superior level design did absolutely nothing for the game's place in the franchise.
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I disagree with the whole notion of superior level design. Things open up a bit when you can just simply jump from planet to planet. Again, Galaxy wasn't bad (though Galaxy 2 was better), but I personally believe that Sunshine and Mario 64 are the better games.
 
Like wind waker, i feel like this game was released when it wasn't quite ready yet. Maybe Nintendo were feeling the pressure at the point these games were released.

That said, I love the game FLUDD mechanics and all. I'm also a huge fan of the galaxy series, but I would definitely be up for a sunshine 2.
 
maharg said:
WTF were you smoking when you interpreted the things in Sunshine this way?
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You don't see the parallels between Bowser and Avon Barksdale? Bowser Jr. is the young blood entering the scene, but running the game without any honor, like Marlo. Mario is a cross between Omar Little (vigilante robbing drug dealers/fighting Shadow Mario/Marlo/Bowser/Barksdale) and McNulty (cop using unorthodox methods to clean the streets/wash away the paint/mud).
 
My mind was blown on my playthrough I just completed yesterday.

You don't have to collect blue coins, or collect shine sprites to beat the game. All you have to do is beat the first 7 levels of each world and it will occur. Wish I knew that when I was a child. I had 90 something shines when I beat the game then.

PhoReal said:
I hear ya.

Mario 64 is my favorite 3D Mario as well. *high five*
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-high five-
 
_woLf said:
Any game with a "gun" in it is copying GTA then, I guess. Even if there's no cars.
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I haven't played much of SMS yet. Mario has a "gun"? Is that the FLUDD?

I remember reading the Iwata Asks for Paper Mario Sticker Star how Miyamoto did not want Mario to use a sword. So I would be surprised if there was a game where Mario used a gun.
 
Spring-Loaded said:
You don't see the parallels between Bowser and Avon Barksdale? Bowser Jr. is the young blood entering the scene, but running the game without any honor, like Marlo. Mario is a cross between Omar Little (vigilante robbing drug dealers/fighting Shadow Mario/Marlo/Bowser/Barksdale) and McNulty (cop using unorthodox methods to clean the streets/wash away the paint/mud).
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Hahah.
 
n64coder said:
I haven't played much of SMS yet. Mario has a "gun"? Is that the FLUDD?

I remember reading the Iwata Asks for Paper Mario Sticker Star how Miyamoto did not want Mario to use a sword. So I would be surprised if there was a game where Mario used a gun.
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I guess? That's all I could come up with to possibly tie SMS to a gun. It's not even a gun. :/
 
maharg said:
WTF were you smoking when you interpreted the things in Sunshine this way?
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It's quite difficult not to, I just watched the Sunshine intro again now, it's cringeworthy how overly glamorous it tries to be, and it's ridiculous how it opens with a court case (also like The Wire).

The introduction of characters like Toadsworth fully reflect the audience Nintendo were going for with this game.

You don't see the parallels between Bowser and Avon Barksdale? Bowser Jr. is the young blood entering the scene, but running the game without any honor, like Marlo. Mario is a cross between Omar Little (vigilante robbing drug dealers/fighting Shadow Mario/Marlo/Bowser/Barksdale) and McNulty (cop using unorthodox methods to clean the streets/wash away the paint/mud).
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Thank you.

Edit

- Also, 'mature' dialogue from the FLUDD

"We must do our best to resolve the situation"

- Corrupt cops

"We'll be watching you pal".
 
Conor 419 said:
It's quite difficult not to, I just watched the Sunshine intro again now, it's cringeworthy how overly glamorous it tries to be, and it's ridiculous how it opens with a court case (also like The Wire).

The introduction of characters like Toadsworth fully reflect the audience Nintendo were going for with this game.
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Conor, you cray...
 
FLUUD, Monita and Fi should have a threesome.

In other words, a great game Sunshine is.

Really underrated.

The early level where you go way vertical is awesome.
 
Conor 419 said:
It's quite difficult not to, I just watched the Sunshine intro again now, it's cringeworthy how overly glamorous it tries to be, and it's ridiculous how it opens with a court case (also like The Wire).

The introduction of characters like Toadsworth fully reflect the audience Nintendo were going for with this game.
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I wonder if they were actively channeling Vice City with this game. Sunny, glitzy setting, an opening involving a botched drug deal/vacation ending in the protagonist getting imprisoned... the corrupt cops you mention remind one of the San Andreas storyline...

That was such a missed opportunity for a court drama story arc too. Mario trying to prove his innocence after being framed... they even could've had Toadsworth assume the McNulty role with Bowser being the Stringer Bell-like character, just to have the game start with that trial and have Toadsworth on to Bowser's game, muttering "Nicely done," to Bowser as the threatened witnesses accuse Mario of being the culprit.

Then at the end when Boswer's plan falls through and he's being taken away by authorities, he could echo Toadsworth's, "nicely done," and it would be great
 
The Wire and Mario Sunshine came out a month apart.

You trollin'.

<3

On topic, I enjoyed the hell out of Sunshine when it released. Recently tried it out on Dolphin and it runs well enough. Maybe I'll give it another run. ;)
 
Spring-Loaded said:
I wonder if they were actively channeling Vice City with this game. Sunny, glitzy setting, an opening involving a botched drug deal/vacation ending in the protagonist getting imprisoned... the corrupt cops you mention remind one of the San Andreas storyline...

That was such a missed opportunity for a court drama story arc too. Mario trying to prove his innocence after being framed... they even could've had Toadsworth assume the McNulty role with Bowser being the Stringer Bell-like character, just to have the game start with that trial and have Toadsworth on to Bowser's game, muttering "Nicely done," to Bowser as the threatened witnesses accuse Mario of being the culprit.

Then at the end when Boswer's plan falls through and he's being taken away by authorities, he could echo Toadsworth's, "nicely done," and it would be great
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Yeah, definitely. I mean, I get what Nintendo were going for, but I just really wish that they didn't half ass it, the game would have been much more forgivable (and potentially quite good) as a result.
 
Jungle Beat is the best platformer of that generation, by far.

Sunshine (and Mario 64) just seem dull after the Galaxy's and 3D land. You spend half of your time just walking around.
 
Such a dissapointing game. Only mainline Mario game I dislike. Galaxy is wayy wayyyy better than this crap. I wonder whos idea this game was and what the heck they were thinking.

I'd honestly be more excited for NSMB3 than Sunshine 2. And I loathe NSMB...

There is one thing tho I remember the game doing well. Graphics were great!
 
Had this been a game consisting of levels like Ricco Harbor and Noki Bay, then you know what? It might actually be my favorite Mario game.

But it doesnt. So much of the course design is so flat and dull. Using the Fludd to aid in the platforming is fun, using it to clean up a flat beach isnt. The game more often than not gives way to the latter.

Add repetive bosses, some of the worst missions in a 3D mario game, and a horrendous final level and you have the recipie for an average mario experience.

Its too bad because at its best, the game is amazing. I loved the clever one off stages like the pachinko level and the fluddless levels.
 
Dare I say that I honestly preferred playing this to Galaxy? I think SMG1/2 are fantastic games, some of the greatest, but they are pure platformers and this is not. I frankly miss the open levels of games like this and 64. They feel more like puzzle games in some respects, where platforming is a tool to achieve your goal rather than the main focus. I'll gladly acknowledge the myriad of problems this game has but I still had more fun with it than either of the Galaxy games. The mini stories of each level and the overall setting were well done and a guilty pleasure of mine.

Wobagahighou?
 
I should get back to this game, I really enjoyed it when I played it about 4 years ago but sold my copy after completing it. Some of the levels were dull, but overall I really liked the FLUDD mechanics, they were a really fun way to augment mario's normal abilities.

SMG2 Yoshi >>>> SMS Yoshi though.
 
I personally loved it and 100%'d it twice, after my first file was corrupted. Sunshine is nowhere near as good as both of the Super Mario Galaxy's, but I still think it's a great 3D Mario game. It was just a bit too repetitive and lacked variety, had a lot of potential with the open-world gameplay, I just don't think we'll see a Mario game with a "gimmick" like FLUDD for a while.
 
The concept for Sunshine is fantastic, but the combination of the motherfucking blue coins, the freaking red coins in the FLUDDless levels, and overall repetitiveness means that the game is a good game with a lot of infuriating flaws.
 
Wasn't bad, but felt wrong. The super soaker annoyed me to all hell. The islanders and the baddies in the game annoyed me to all hell.
 
I love Super Mario Sunshine! The first time I played it, I had a very tough time going through it. This game is HARD! Second time, I was used to the game mechanics, and had an easier time (I also didn't play annoying levels like that Rollercoaster/balloon stage). I'd love a sequel to Sunshine, but I really want a new Mario game with gameplay like Mario 64.
 
I remember being pretty excited for this game, I mean who wouldn't be? The followup to mario 64 (well in terms of releases), and at the time I was a middle schooler so I didn't have the money to buy many games. When I finally played it, and finished it, I think it was one of the first times I've ever had buyer's remorse. It didn't feel like a fun game, better, it didn't feel like a Mario game.
 
....them blue coins.
them fluudless stages
THAT annoying and poorly programmed lava boat ride

heck that bath tub battle XD
 
ffdgh said:
....them blue coins.
them fluudless stages
THAT annoying and poorly programmed lava boat ride

heck that bath tub battle XD
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You actually don't need the blue coins to beat the game.

And I had a lot of trouble trying to beat the lava boat ride when I was a child, but for some reason, yesterday I did it in one shot. It's actually quite short, but understanding how the boat turns at first is very confusing. Once you get that down it is very easy.
 
Conor 419 said:
But they weren't trying to do something new, they were trying to emulate the success of GTA.
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I recently played through the game. Got all 120 shines.

The main missions were alright, but nothing special. The no-fludd missions were definitely the highlight. Fludd had some cool moments, but the game never truly does anything ridiculously creative with it.

The blue coin hunt was awful. Just awful. And I used a guide for it. i can only imagine doing it without any help. By the time I was done, I had pretty much grown to dislike the game completely.

Oh, and having to feed Yoshi was stupid and annoying.
 
I kinda liked the game back in the day, but it says something about FLUDD that the parts I had the most fun with were the segments without that talking watery nightmare.

I also thought the world hub music was one of the most obnoxious pieces ever written.
 
Kokonoe said:
You actually don't need the blue coins to beat the game.

And I had a lot of trouble trying to beat the lava boat ride when I was a child, but for some reason, yesterday I did it in one shot. It's actually quite short, but understanding how the boat turns at first is very confusing. Once you get that down it is very easy.
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I know....i found them all.....lack of internet at the time. It would have helped greately if there was a chart for them.
 
Sunshine actually may still be my favorite 3-D Mario game when it comes to just hopping in and randomly dicking around inside of the levels without a real purpose in mind. There's something pointless but still just inherently fun about cruising around the rooftops of Delfino Plaza or bouncing around Noki Bay's tightrope array.

That said, the game definitely seems rushed, and I've always had the impression that a couple of courses were cut or never made in time for its release. Having 240 blue coins hurled around in random locations felt really lazy, the course-count itself fell far short of 64's and I always think back to the map of the island that's briefly shown, with X's in the locations of all the courses along with a few marks that aren't. I think they wound up truncating what they fully wanted to do, either for size reasons or simply so they could still launch the game during the summer time period. Even so, I thought that they did a good job with the courses that were there, and they did a nice job of providing some variety while still sticking with the tropical island motif. I wouldn't mind another game in that style at all.
 
Mario Sunshine is an interesting one: it has a lot of good and a lot of bad.

The Fludd-less levels are amazing, and were really representative of what a 3D Mario in the classic formula would be like. The graphics were also very impressive, with some fantastic water effects and a good attention to detail. The game also had much more fluid controls than Mario 64, and running around in the hub world felt fantastic. Nice atmosphere.

But the other hand, the story and voice acting were horrid. The whole "Mama Peach" thing is just absolutely stupid, everything with Bowser was terrible and FLUDD itself was extremely annoying. The hover nozzle over simplifying things wasn't fun - there's no way the Super Guide compares to it, since the Super Guide appears only after numerous deaths and can be chosen by less experienced players if they so desire. The hover nozzle is available at all times, and trivializes puzzles. Blue coins are horrible; there's a reason they never came back. I also didn't like how the only real objective in the game was to finish all of those really dumb "Spray Shadow Mario until he disappears" mission, but that's just personal opinion. And then that just leads to one of the most poorly designed final levels I've played.

Overall, Mario Sunshine is easily the worst mainline Mario game, but it's still probably the best platformer from last generation. Mario Galaxy came in and showed how to make a real quality Mario game, though. I would've loved to see a full game like those Fludd-less levels, with more fleshed out ideas.
 
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