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W Virginia governor about to flip from Democrat to Republican tonight at Trump rally

K

KingV

Member
hammysaurusrex said:
Joe Manchin, in a state Trump won by 42%, votes inline with Trump's interests 54.2% of the time and is considered a traitor to Democrats.

John McCain, in a state Trump won by 3.2%, votes inline with Trump's interests 85% of the time and is considered a moderate sweetheart.

Yeeesh.

Anyway, it's hard to not view WV as a lost cause. I know people don't like to say those words, because for decades Dems said that about the South and now some of it is finally turning purple after a shitload of work and zero thanks to idiots abandoning the 50 state strategy. But I'm not sure what you do about a state where you can say "The 100k coal jobs are magically coming back and btw I'll make sure no brown-people take them from you" and the electorate will flock to the polls for you... right after they finish shooting up their heroin.

I want Dems to be a bit more risky in their promises and messages, but I don't have it in me to outright lie to these people - but it's what they want. They are voting in their perceived self-interest.
Click to expand...

I think Manchin is fine. He's been there for some big votes when needed. Capito voted for skinny repeal, didn't she? Replace Manchin with an R and it probably would have passed.
 
F

Father_Brain

Banned
studyguy said:
I mean he didn't really hide anything.
http://www.wvgazettemail.com/news-p...ar-over-alleged-support-of-national-democrats



This is WV after all. He might have signed on that letter that urged the senate to not repeal the ACA but, then again that's like bread and butter in WV. More than anything it's just weird ass WV politics where everyone is shitty 100% of the time. I can't imagine his voters care much at all.
Click to expand...

Justice got endorsements from unions like UMWA, though.
 
M

Matt

Member
The Manchin hate is ridiculous. He is literally the best we could possibly hope for in WV. The Dems are lucky to have him.
 
A

ApharmdX

Banned
hammysaurusrex said:
Joe Manchin, in a state Trump won by 42%, votes inline with Trump's interests 54.2% of the time and is considered a traitor to Democrats.

John McCain, in a state Trump won by 3.2%, votes inline with Trump's interests 85% of the time and is considered a moderate sweetheart.

Yeeesh.

Anyway, it's hard to not view WV as a lost cause. I know people don't like to say those words, because for decades Dems said that about the South and now some of it is finally turning purple after a shitload of work and zero thanks to idiots abandoning the 50 state strategy. But I'm not sure what you do about a state where you can say "The 100k coal jobs are magically coming back and btw I'll make sure no brown-people take them from you" and the electorate will flock to the polls for you... right after they finish shooting up their heroin.

I want Dems to be a bit more risky in their promises and messages, but I don't have it in me to outright lie to these people - but it's what they want. They are voting in their perceived self-interest.
Click to expand...

Yuuup. West Virginia is fucked up by many metrics- health, education, infrastructure, economy. It is a state where ignorance, racism, and sexism have sadly run rampant, and voters are motivated by magical thinking that the coal jobs (which have heavily polluted the state already!) are returning.

WV went from a blue state to a GOP stronghold and it really sucks, has done the state no favors.
 
H

hammysaurusrex

Member
KingV said:
I think Manchin is fine. He's been there for some big votes when needed. Capito voted for skinny repeal, didn't she? Replace Manchin with an R and it probably would have passed.
Click to expand...

Yeah, not sure what's up with Capito. She was vacillating between yes and no for a while, but then near the end when it seemed the silliest she went all in on yes.

Machin does what's needed when needed, and votes politically when it's not that important. It's not great, but I'm not sure who the alternative option is currently.
 
N

Nerdkiller

Membeur
There was this very good Bloomberg article from a few days before the inauguration that went in depth on this man (and the people in the state describing him), with him sharing a lot in common with Trump in many ways, right down to conflicts of interest.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-01-10/can-west-virginia-s-new-governor-save-coal-country

In 2009, during a period when the coal market seemed relatively strong, Justice decided to cash in. He sold most of his holdings in metallurgical coal to a Russian company called Mechel for $568 million in cash and stock. (Broadly speaking, there are two types of coal: More abundant thermal coal is lower in carbon content and burned to produce electricity; metallurgical coal has less sulphur and phosphorus and can be transformed at high heat into a plastic, porous substance called coke, which when smelted with iron ore and limestone creates steel.) Almost immediately after his deal with Mechel, the bottom fell out of the met coal market. “It was upside down as it could possibly be,” Justice says, not bothering to disguise his dealmaker’s pleasure. But then Mechel began shutting mines and laying off miners. “Many of those people started their careers working for my dad,” Justice says.

Distressed by the layoffs and sensing the chance for another financial killing, he offered to take the shuttered mines off the Russians’ hands. “I bought [them] back for next to nothing,” he says. To be exact, six years after selling, he paid $5 million, or 1 percent of the earlier price, for the same properties—an indication of just how much coal had weakened in the interim. In a prepared statement about the repurchase that had the ring of someone getting ready to run for public office, Justice said in February 2015: “West Virginia coal miners have done the heavy lifting in our country for generations and generations. We are now prepared to build toward the future and increase jobs in southern West Virginia.”
Click to expand...
 
C

CazTGG

Member
Question: Why exactly did Democrats let him run in their primaries? Is there no method they could have used to prevent him from doing so?
 
T

The Greek Freak

Member
CazTGG said:
Question: Why exactly did Democrats let him run in their primaries? Is there no method they could have used to prevent him from doing so?
Click to expand...

The DNC is incompetent and run by centrists at best.

All the DNC cares about is being the GOP but slightly less bad. They stand for nothing.
 
A

Africanus

Member
Common Knowledge said:
What's the breaking point for that, though? Or is there even one?

Like, for instance, could a newly elected president theoretically just switch parties shortly after being sworn in, flipping on almost all their key positions, and just claim they "changed their mind on things" and still get to be president for the next four years?
Click to expand...

I mean, given the train wreck in office right now, it wouldn't be the strangest thing that happened.
 
A

akira28

Member
hammysaurusrex said:
Joe Manchin, in a state Trump won by 42%, votes inline with Trump's interests 54.2% of the time and is considered a traitor to Democrats.

John McCain, in a state Trump won by 3.2%, votes inline with Trump's interests 85% of the time and is considered a moderate sweetheart.

Yeeesh.

Anyway, it's hard to not view WV as a lost cause. I know people don't like to say those words, because for decades Dems said that about the South and now some of it is finally turning purple after a shitload of work and zero thanks to idiots abandoning the 50 state strategy. But I'm not sure what you do about a state where you can say "The 100k coal jobs are magically coming back and btw I'll make sure no brown-people take them from you" and the electorate will flock to the polls for you... right after they finish shooting up their heroin.

I want Dems to be a bit more risky in their promises and messages, but I don't have it in me to outright lie to these people - but it's what they want. They are voting in their perceived self-interest.
Click to expand...

well the guy is literally switching sides tonight, so....

and the south has had their own version of the Lost Cause(of the Confederacy) that they've been holding on to that did more damage than any outside perceptions could have.
 
H

hodayathink

Member
CazTGG said:
Question: Why exactly did Democrats let him run in their primaries? Is there no method they could have used to prevent him from doing so?
Click to expand...

As far as I know, there isn't. The failsafe is usually supposed to be that if you aren't really a Democrat, then you'll lose the primary, but in a state like West Virginia that is so far right, a Dem would end up looking a lot like a moderate Republican (which is many people's primary criticism of Manchin).
 
K

Kthulhu

Member
Common Knowledge said:
What's the breaking point for that, though? Or is there even one?

Like, for instance, could a newly elected president theoretically just switch parties shortly after being sworn in, flipping on almost all their key positions, and just claim they "changed their mind on things" and still get to be president for the next four years?
Click to expand...

Yes. Good way to not get re-elected though. Your previous base will hate you, and your new one probably doesn't trust you. Not to mention your fellow politicians probably won't like the optics of associating with you.
 
E

Effect

Member
hammysaurusrex said:
Yeah, not sure what's up with Capito. She was vacillating between yes and no for a while, but then near the end when it seemed the silliest she went all in on yes.

Machin does what's needed when needed, and votes politically when it's not that important. It's not great, but I'm not sure who the alternative option is currently.
Click to expand...

Their is no alternative option. No full progressive is winning in West Virgina no matter how much people hope. There are many places in this country where you have to be practical about who can honestly win and take what you can get..What's important is how they swing in major stuff like healthcare, taxes, etc. I wish more on the far left would understand this. If they had it their way they'd run someone else instead of Machin and you'd have a hard R in the seat.

I don't get the Trump embrace here though by this guy. Switch parties I guess but Trump is a burning ship right now in various ways. We just came off a fight where if Trump had his way your entire state would have been fucked over left and right! I'm legit confused here.
 
H

hidys

Member
Traitorous rat fuck.

God Dayumm said:
As will all the pro-life democrats you want to fund in 2018
Click to expand...

I'm sure Bob Casey and the myriad of other pro-life Democrats who have been receiving support from the DNC since forever and voting with the other Dems on most every other issue are just waiting for their chance to switch parties.
 
M

Maengun1

Member
Henchmen21 said:
But we got to vote blue no matter who...right guys? pfft.

Lol centrists stay losing.
Click to expand...


I mean, there can be some nuance to this. I don't think there are many dems if any who didn't think Justice was garbage all along (he was already GOP until 2015 and flipped to dem because it was politically convenient). I wouldn't even call him a centrist tbh

Manchin, on the other hand, is faaaaaar from perfect IMO but if he had voted to repeal the ACA it would have been repealed. And he didn't. So I'm thankful he's there.
 
M

Madness

Member
blackflag said:
You are voting for the person, not the party, otherwise we wouldn't bother with the names on the ballots.
Click to expand...

Let's not pretend anyone in America actually looks at the issues, what the person stands for, their positions on key things as opposed to just blindly voting Democrat or Republican. Names on ballots are pretty much irrelevant as it is. Everyone knows it. May as well just say do you want to vote red or blue, elephant or donkey etc.
 
K

Kusagari

Member
hodayathink said:
As far as I know, there isn't. The failsafe is usually supposed to be that if you aren't really a Democrat, then you'll lose the primary, but in a state like West Virginia that is so far right, a Dem would end up looking a lot like a moderate Republican (which is many people's primary criticism of Manchin).
Click to expand...

Which isn't even really true. Manchin's voting record is better than people like Murkowski or Collins.

If the Dems truly need Manchin he'll vote the way we need him to.
 
U

UraMallas

Member
Maengun1 said:
I mean, there can be some nuance to this. I don't think there are many dems if any who didn't think Justice was garbage all along (he was already GOP until 2015 and flipped to dem because it was politically convenient). I wouldn't even call him a centrist tbh

Manchin, on the other hand, is faaaaaar from perfect IMO but if he had voted to repeal the ACA it would have been repealed. And he didn't. So I'm thankful he's there.
Click to expand...

Yep. And if dems in WV hadn't 'held their noses' and voted for Manchin it would most definitely have gone to an R who would have voted for the repeal.

Kusagari said:
Which isn't even really true. Manchin's voting record is better than people like Murkowski or Collins.

If the Dems truly need Manchin he'll vote the way we need him to.
Click to expand...

And he did. Glad we have him because the way WV is made up, we're LUCKY to have him.
 
Maiden Voyage

Maiden Voyage

Gold™ Member
Madness said:
Let's not pretend anyone in America actually looks at the issues, what the person stands for, their positions on key things as opposed to just blindly voting Democrat or Republican. Names on ballots are pretty much irrelevant as it is. Everyone knows it. May as well just say do you want to vote red or blue, elephant or donkey etc.
Click to expand...

This isn't the case for me, but I'm registered independent. Also, this happened in South Dakota, a deep red state, last election:
Amendment V, which is backed by various Republicans, independents and Democrats, would remove a candidate's political party affiliation from the ballot, forcing candidates to depend on their qualifications and ideas rather than relying on the political machine to propel them into office.
Click to expand...
-Source

It failed, but could have a future in other states.
 
J

JustenP88

I earned 100 Gamerscore™ for collecting 300 widgets and thereby created Trump's America
diablos991

diablos991

Can’t stump the diablos
Props on him for being open minded and being able to change his mind.

It's a weird time to change but I wish we saw more of this on both sides.
 
K

krackerjack

Member
During the rally, Jim Justice said something along the lines of "at least now we have a chief of staff whose first name we can pronounce unlike under the last guy." The crowd erupted. Literally one of the biggest applauses of the night.
 
M

mlclmtckr

Banned
diablos991 said:
Props on him for being open minded and being able to change his mind.

It's a weird time to change but I wish we saw more of this on both sides.
Click to expand...

This is what happens to your brain when you care more about narratives and norms than actual policy.

I honestly don't know if you have any political beliefs at all, which for such a prolific and widely mocked poster says a lot.
 
D

DangerMouse

Member
RinsFury said:
Go ahead and hook your wagon up to the burning Trump inferno. The more assholes that go down with that shitbag the better.
Click to expand...

Exile20 said:
Another fucking rally 6 months in. Fuck trump.
Click to expand...

This.

RPGCrazied said:
Its what happens when your approval rating is nearing 30%. He is doing everything he can to rile up his base of stupid supporters.
Click to expand...

Yeah. The child probably needs his next delusional cheers fix for his horrific disgusting crap.
 
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