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[sonikokaruto]

Take your "Fuck You, I'm Not PC" attitutde and shove it your ass. The point is that it is offensive to people without NEEDING to be so. It is offensive only for the sake of being offensive, or in this case, because of the fact that it was created in an era when it was okay to be offensive. Bringing up "tradition" is BS because it should have been changed AGES ago.



Children's cartoons don't contain the racial stereotypes that they once did, because our society has decided that is not okay. Standing up to society, when you have nothing to fight for, doesn't make you a "big man".




The difference between Memin and Lenny Bruce is that Lenny Bruce has a point to what he was doing. He was offensive to prove something, and no, we shouldn't let political correctness prevent us from living our lives. HOWEVER, being an inconsiderate prick is not some kind of defendable life goal.

so ... someone got raped ...


look, here's the problem:

1) you're too whiny
2) walmart is importing it, meaning that THEY WANTED TO BRING IT TO THE US OF A, mexico did not shoved it up walmart's ass.
3) IT'S JUST A FUCKING REPRINT

if you don't like something, just don't support it, and there, be done.

you just want some point of argument, then fuck that shit.

if you wanna ramble, then come on, tell me why the fuck every fucking mexican or mexican style thing they sell in the states has to have either a fucking cactus, a sombrero or a fucking sarape (poncho) on the packaging? how the fuck would we feel? those stupid things are everywhere, but what do we do? fuck that shit it ain't bad.


you are just being an ass.

And btw, i'm mexican, so screw you, we have threated the black comunity far better for a longer time, and we didn't used them as slaves.

That should give you soemthing to argue about.

 

[Kreed]

The idiocy here is especially apparent because calling Memim racist because of that picture is like calling Huckleberry Finn racist because it has the word "nigger." If this was a Klan comic I'd just say if there are enough bigots out there who want to buy it let them buy it, but this comic promotes racial acceptance and they've pulled it from the shelves in the name of racial acceptance.

Huckleberry Finn is a bad analogy since we are talking about a modern comic book still being published today that continues to use art style that is historically racist and offensive. If the artist of this book truly wants to promote racial acceptance then he should have no problem updating Memin with a modern, more racially acceptable look as well. Otherwise, Walmart did the right thing pulling this comic book.

 

[Frester]

Theater major, dude. BFA shoulda tipped you off right there.

She said it regarding an episode of the Sarah Silverman show in which she actually appeared in black face. I continue to shrug at you!

 

[Evander]

so ... someone got raped ...


look, here's the problem:

1) you're too whiny
2) walmart is importing it, meaning that THEY WANTED TO BRING IT TO THE US OF A, mexico did not shoved it up walmart's ass.
3) IT'S JUST A FUCKING REPRINT

if you don't like something, just don't support it, and there, be done.

you just want some point of argument, then fuck that shit.

if you wanna ramble, then come on, tell me why the fuck every fucking mexican or mexican style thing they sell in the states has to have either a fucking cactus, a sombrero or a fucking sarape (poncho) on the packaging? how the fuck would we feel? those stupid things are everywhere, but what do we do? fuck that shit it ain't bad.


you are just being an ass.

And btw, i'm mexican, so screw you, we have threated the black comunity far better for a longer time, and we didn't used them as slaves.

That should give you soemthing to argue about.

Way to assume that you know what I am or what I'm about.



Don't try to read INTO my posts. I don't include any subtext.



This is a discussion on the internet, so if you DON'T want to openly discuss the ideas, I recommend you go. I'm not saying that Memin should be censored, I'm saying that, on a theoretical level, the creator should know better than to create it the way that they currently continue to.

 

[Evander]

She said it regarding an episode of the Sarah Silverman show in which she actually appeared in black face. I continue to shrug at you!

The best use of blackface I've seen in recent years is the episode of Stella where it was used with ABSOLUTELY zero racial refference.



Black Face is one of the funniest comedic tools out there, as long as it is being used to make fun of the absurdity of blackface itself.

 

[my name is ed]

Ive never heard of this comic and artist despite me being from mexico. Ill ask my parents at some point. Also, theres a ton of mexicans that are racist. Im not stating that this comic is racist but the art style does seem to suggest it. Others in this thread familiar with it have said that the character is actually a good hearted kid. Seems strange to have an art style that conflicts with the message of the book.

 

[The Faceless Master]

what?

this isn't really racist!

they just don't understand this concept well in mexico.

they don't know any better...

 

[amodelmerol]

Memin Pinguin es la neta putos!

Y viva México, cabrones!

------------------------------------------------------------

Once that said. Only racist people think that's racist. Nobody here thinks he looks like a monkey. It's a damn cartoon for god's sake! A comic that tackles prejudice and has educated a lot of mexicans to be more polite to people in any race and condition.

But racist people see stereotypes, see mockery, see evil where there is none.

And that pisses me off.

But straight answer, take it down if you want, it doesn't matter, some people will never learn.

 

[BobsRevenge]

what?

this isn't really racist!

they just don't understand this concept well in mexico.

they don't know any better...

It looks racist here, and that's where Wal-Mart is. It isn't good business to have racist looking comic things lying around in a store. I mean, by the looks of it... that comic looks really racist and I'm sure most Americans would agree. Why should Wal-Mart feel obligated to keep a comic in their store if it's going to offend shoppers? That's not good business.

edit: ugh, if that was a sarcastic post I'm tired and my detector may be off.

 

[sonikokaruto]

 

[dr3upmushroom]

If Huckleberry Finn were written today, set in modern times, it wouldn't contain the word "nigger" in it.

Why wouldn't it? There's still plenty of racism to go around.

 

[way more]

Memin Pinguin es la neta putos!

Y viva México, cabrones!

------------------------------------------------------------

Once that said. Only racist people think that's racist. Nobody here thinks he looks like a monkey.
But racist people see stereotypes, see mockery, see evil where there is none.

Where did this idiocy originate? I hear so many people say that phrase with pride like they just outsmarted a Dr. of Sociology.

 

[Kapsama]

Fun fact: Memín is a positive character and is loved in Latinamerican countries with plenty of black/mixed people such as Colombia.

In June 2005, as part of a "History of Mexican Comics" series, the Mexican Postal Service (SEPOMEX) issued a series of stamps featuring the character of Memín. The stamps were deemed offensive by a number of African American community groups and politicians in the United States, including Jesse Jackson, prompting the Mexican government to assert that Memín had done a lot to oppose racism and that the stereotypical Warner Brothers' character Speedy Gonzales was never interpreted as offensive in Mexico.[4] LULAC and NCLR, Hispanic Americans civil rights organizations, also issued statements calling the stamps racist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memín_Pinguín#Racial_issues

What a fun fact indeed.

 

[mabuza]

holy shit thats wrong. and smh @ these pieces of shit in this thread defending it.

 

[Funky Papa]

In June 2005, as part of a "History of Mexican Comics" series, the Mexican Postal Service (SEPOMEX) issued a series of stamps featuring the character of Memín. The stamps were deemed offensive by a number of African American community groups and politicians in the United States, including Jesse Jackson, prompting the Mexican government to assert that Memín had done a lot to oppose racism and that the stereotypical Warner Brothers' character Speedy Gonzales was never interpreted as offensive in Mexico.[4] LULAC and NCLR, Hispanic Americans civil rights organizations, also issued statements calling the stamps racist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memín_Pinguín#Racial_issues

What a fun fact indeed.

Yes, because some protests are indicative of the general consensus over there.

 

[Kapsama]

Yes, because some protests are indicative of the general consensus over there.

Yes because general consensus can justify "stuff" right?

 

[way more]

Yes, because some protests are indicative of the general consensus over there.

I guess your posts more accurately display the feelings of the entire sub-continent?

 

[justjohn]

And btw, i'm mexican, so screw you, we have threated the black comunity far better for a longer time, and we didn't used them as slaves.

That should give you soemthing to argue about.

:lol on behalf of the black community i want to thank the mexican community for treating us a bit better than you know who....
seriously, who the fuck do you think you are? :lol

 

[zoku88]

I was expecting something kinda tame... but yea. That's pretty bad :lol

 

[Funky Papa]

I guess your posts more accurately display the feelings of the entire sub-continent?

Not really. I'd personally change the character, but that's not up to me.

I know more than enough comic fans from Latinamerica and all of them have a great deal of respect for Memin and what it stands for. The character is grossly caricaturized, sure, but not intending to cause any harm or to distort black people in general; actually, you can find realistically drawn black men in the comic, it is just that the main character and his mother kept the original art (Memin is an ICON for some Mexicans) If any, Memin is a symbol of tolerance. I can fully understand why some people from the United States are outraged, though.

 

[SUPREME1]

In June 2005, as part of a "History of Mexican Comics" series, the Mexican Postal Service (SEPOMEX) issued a series of stamps featuring the character of Memín. The stamps were deemed offensive by a number of African American community groups and politicians in the United States, including Jesse Jackson, prompting the Mexican government to assert that Memín had done a lot to oppose racism and that the stereotypical Warner Brothers' character Speedy Gonzales was never interpreted as offensive in Mexico.[4] LULAC and NCLR, Hispanic Americans civil rights organizations, also issued statements calling the stamps racist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memín_Pinguín#Racial_issues

What a fun fact indeed.

So wait, AMERICANS and AMERICAN-BASED groups deemed a MEXICAN stamp which portrays the life of a MEXICAN comic caricature, as racist...

....AND?!


America + Butting in matters that don't concern them = color me shocked!!!!

 

[Lord Error]

Not really. I'd personally change the character, but that's not up to me.

I know more than enough comic fans from Latinamerica and all of them have a great deal of respect for Memin and what it stands for. The character is grossly caricaturized, sure, but not intending to cause any harm or to distort black people in general; actually, you can find realistically drawn black men in the comic, it is just that the main character and his mother kepts the original art (Memin is an ICON for some Mexicans) If any, Memin is a symbol of tolerance. I can fully understand why some people from the United States are outraged, though.

I can understand all of that, but they still should have changed the way the character looks. Any outrage that would stem from it could be easily deflected by an honest explanation of why it was done. From what I understand, that wouldn't impact the message of the comic in any negative way.

 

[Kitsuné]

Still not as bad as this:

Edit: then again, this was drawn almost 100 years ago.

 

[amodelmerol]

Where did this idiocy originate? I hear so many people say that phrase with pride like they just outsmarted a Dr. of Sociology.

Maybe because even a Dr. of Sociology doesn't get it.

And sadly, most people don't.

 

[SUPREME1]

The imagery in question is based on stereotypes exported from the United States way back when racism was the status quo; it's not so much that the comic is racist, but that the display of stereotypes may be ignorant of the fact that they are, in the first place, very negative stereotypes.

So why not let the MEXICANS deal with the issue of it is indeed an issue in THEIR counrty.

If it bothers blacks in MEXICO, let them take up the fight.

The US has NOTHING to to do with the (non?)issue.

 

[Kitschkraft]

I'm not in favor of BANNING anything, mind you. Walmart is within its rights, as a business, to decide that they don't want to stick an image in the face of their customers, and that is fine. When it comes to dealing with offensive material, I say let the market decide.

Exactly. It's not like people aren't allowed to buy this shit in America, it's not a fucking drug. Wal-Mart simply isn't selling it, the same way they won't sell porn.

 

[Amir0x]

I can understand both sides of the issue. Using these particular racist archetypes highlight the pretty inherently anti-racism message throughout the entire series. It is an intentional hard parody on this particular racist iconography.

On the other hand I understand why this is pretty outrageous to some. There is deep history here and it is, no doubt, painful to many people. It may not be time to use these images in this way, especially considering when this comic just came out the idea was even more raw.

However, it is not as some may say "to be offensive for offensive sake." There's a purpose there, and if you read any Memin you fucking know this is one really anti-racist comic. The author clearly hates racism.

The US has NOTHING to to do with the (non?)issue.

Except this is being sold in some US Wal-Marts.

 

[The Faceless Master]

It looks racist here, and that's where Wal-Mart is. It isn't good business to have racist looking comic things lying around in a store. I mean, by the looks of it... that comic looks really racist and I'm sure most Americans would agree. Why should Wal-Mart feel obligated to keep a comic in their store if it's going to offend shoppers? That's not good business.

edit: ugh, if that was a sarcastic post I'm tired and my detector may be off.

So why not let the MEXICANS deal with the issue of it is indeed an issue in THEIR counrty.

If it bothers blacks in MEXICO, let them take up the fight.

The US has NOTHING to to do with the (non?)issue.

Houston in in Mexico?

 

[SUPREME1]

I can understand both sides of the issue. Using these particular racist archetypes highlight the pretty inherently anti-racism message throughout the entire series. It is an intentional hard parody on this particular racist iconography.

On the other hand I understand why this is pretty outrageous to some. There is deep history here and it is, no doubt, painful to many people. It may not be time to use these images in this way, especially considering when this comic just came out the idea was even more raw.

However, it is not as some may say "to be offensive for offensive sake." There's a purpose there, and if you read any Memin you fucking know this is one really anti-racist comic. The author clearly hates racism.



Except this is being sold in some US Wal-Marts.

I was referring to the original 'outcry' a few years back about the stamps. I made sure to point that out.


Your break down of Memin and it's authors anti-racism stance is spot on.

That's the most important part and it's getting overlooked.


--------------------------------------

RACIST1!!!!

 

[SUPREME1]

Houston in in Mexico?

Skimp through threads much?

My posts were clearly reffering to the stamp issue a few years back.

 

[Evander]

So wait, AMERICANS and AMERICAN-BASED groups deemed a MEXICAN stamp which portrays the life of a MEXICAN comic caricature, as racist...

....AND?!


America + Butting in matters that don't concern them = color me shocked!!!!

If Hispanic Americans no longer count as hispanic, thn african americans no longer count as black.



I'm declaring that officially.

 

[Evander]

However, it is not as some may say "to be offensive for offensive sake." There's a purpose there, and if you read any Memin you fucking know this is one really anti-racist comic. The author clearly hates racism.

To that argument I would state that, on an aesthetic level, the art style hurts more than it helps because the folks who aren't yet familiar with Memin mistake it for seeking to do the opposite, and anyone who is already familiar with it already knows the message.

 

[SUPREME1]

If Hispanic Americans no longer count as hispanic, thn african americans no longer count as black.



I'm declaring that officially.

Or, how much weight would (should) the NAACP (or African Americans in general) have in matters concerning AFRICAN countries.... in AFRICA?

Zero.

Because again, AMERICANS should shut their mouths and let countries handle their own issues.

________________________

Also, African Americans are still black.... they're just not AFRICAN.

Mexican Americans are still brown, just no longer MEXICAN.

They might have the heritage, but if you're born in the US or become a citizen, then you are now an AMERICAN and should stfu about other countries' issues.

America has a sh*tload of problems of it's own.

 

[laserbeam]

Or, how much weight would (should) the NAACP (or African Americans in general) have in matters concerning AFRICAN countries.... in AFRICA?

Zero.

Because again, AMERICANS should shut their mouths and let countries handle their own issues.

Because obviously Mexico is so good at solving its own problems. Racist linked art is going to get called out by the groups represented by the art. Especially when that material is being Imported into a Country where that art style was used very often to disparage the race in question.

 

[Evander]

Or, how much weight would (should) the NAACP (or African Americans in general) have in matters concerning AFRICAN countries.... in AFRICA?

Zero.

Because again, AMERICANS should shut their mouths and let countries handle their own issues.

Did America try to force Mexico do anything here?

There is NOTHING wrong with America voicing an opposition. We live in a world of global relationships, and people talk to each other.



Would you rather if America simply said nothing, but refused to accept the stamps at all for international postage?

 

[DonCuco]

What about this image? Do you think it is racist? People in Mexico never complain about it, because they understand the comedic point to it. I mean if you can't laught at yourself then who can you laugh at? Memin is not a racist comic, and people really should stop going batshit insane over it.

What's next? Ermelinda Linda is racist as well? :lol

 

[Dark Octave]

I know nothing about the comic, but whatever the "message", there should be no place for it and products like it, on consumer shelves. Any halfway respectable store should reject it.

Edit: That being said, I now feel that I have a responsability to educate myself more about this character/comic and find out what it's really about before I voice further opinions on it.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

Quanell X is just about the coolest name ever created. :lol

Mods, can I change my user name to Quanell X?

 

[SUPREME1]

Because obviously Mexico is so good at solving its own problems. Racist linked art is going to get called out by the groups represented by the art.

Again, at what point was this a problem?

When the US said it was a problem?


Lulz... I love it.

The US can't even work out it's own race relations (melting pot... pfft), maybe they should work on cleaning up their own messes before looking in other peoples' closets.

 

[Amir0x]

To that argument I would state that, on an aesthetic level, the art style hurts more than it helps because the folks who aren't yet familiar with Memin mistake it for seeking to do the opposite, and anyone who is already familiar with it already knows the message.

That's a pretty poor argument for why this approach to his message should be avoided. I mean, there are many things that can be interpreted this way or that, and some more easily than others. His attempt was to provoke thought (which it's doing, by the way) about the way this racist iconography is used.

I mean I don't know if you've read Memin or care to, but the author has literal disdain for racists. Memin is not depicted as the lazy blackfaced "negro" of the minstrel shows, but as a deeply religious Christian who is constantly berated for the color of his skin and has severe moral conundrums over the way people with his color skin are treated. I mean I hate to go wikipedia, but if this is the perfect reflection of the irony he creates within the story to compel people to critically rethink their ideas on race:

In another, Memín decides not to receive Communion at his church, after a cruel boy tells him blacks aren't allowed in Heaven, pointing to the lack of black angels in religious paintings as proof (this was inspired by a popular song "Angelitos negros" that asked the same question and a popular Mexican motion picture of 1948 of the same name). Memín reasons that, since he is going to Hell anyway, he can do any mischief he wants. This prompted some Roman Catholic priests to boycott the magazine, and after sales plummeted an issue in which Memin friends with the aid of the church priest, paint one of the angels in the church black, Memín returns to church and dreams of becoming an angel was published.

Here in the purest example you can find, where the author actually repudiates the idea of using this sort of imagery to determine what you think about such classical ideas. On the cover it is the "pickaninny", but in the comic it is angels always depicted as being white. In either case, trying to draw inference about race and racism from it are challenged and deemed as morally wrong.

So while you may feel that it is perhaps going overboard, that his message does not shine through (and it many cases it does not), I cannot necessarily condemn all use of this iconography for eternity in specific cases as this.

That is not to say I do not understand the disgust and anger of some, and that I don't empathize with those who feel this way. I just don't feel it can be a reflection of some inherently racist belief simply because he uses this to make a point. People are angry because they feel this is being racist, but the point is the exact opposite.

 

[Evander]

*A load of BS*

If we decide that those ARE racist, does that justify everything?



What is the point in bringing them up?

 

[Evander]

That's a pretty poor argument for why this approach to his message should be avoided. I mean, there are many things that can be interpreted this way or that, and some more easily than others. His attempt was to provoke thought (which it's doing, by the way) about the way this racist iconography is used.

I'm not arguing for why it should be ignored, I'm just sort of academically discussing the fact that i feel it would be right for the current author to change the current art for new issues. I'm suggesting he should be forced to, or anything, just saying I feel it would be "right".



And what I read on Wikipedia actually seemed to suggest that, over time, the racial angle of the comic has been downplayed, and it is simply an artistic style used (mind you, not the original style, but a styled added by the second illustrator to work on it.)



Realistically,m I think that Walmart is within their rights to pull any product for any reason, and I think it is valid for customers to not want to see the imagery, because while the message inside may be one thing, not everyone is going to stop and tumb through it, let alone purchase it, and the cover itself sends a very specific, very different meaning. The author may intend to juxtapose the contents with the cover, but when not everyone is going to bother with the context, putting the cover by itslef infornt of the mass market CAN create an issue.

 

[HolyStar]

Or, how much weight would (should) the NAACP (or African Americans in general) have in matters concerning AFRICAN countries.... in AFRICA?

Zero.

Because again, AMERICANS should shut their mouths and let countries handle their own issues.

________________________

Also, African Americans are still black.... they're just not AFRICAN.

Mexican Americans are still brown, just no longer MEXICAN.

They might have the heritage, but if you're born in the US or become a citizen, then you are now an AMERICAN and should stfu about other countries' issues.

America has a sh*tload of problems of it's own.

To much ignorance lol. And many countries try to get themselves involved in American issuses omg lol!!!

And why does everyone get so uppity when ever some one is offended about race?

 

[The Faceless Master]

Skimp through threads much?

My posts were clearly reffering to the stamp issue a few years back.

clearly.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Rice-Eater]

I call your racist cartoon Mexican and raise with 24 yellow faces

http://www.asianweek.com/top-25-yellow-face-performance-5to2/

 

[Kapsama]

So wait, AMERICANS and AMERICAN-BASED groups deemed a MEXICAN stamp which portrays the life of a MEXICAN comic caricature, as racist...

....AND?!


America + Butting in matters that don't concern them = color me shocked!!!!

You slimy piece of junk, how come you keep trolling Turkish threads then? Because butting in matters that concern you not, color you shocked?

Besides, it was a HISPANIC civil rights group, whose members ORIGINATE in countries like Mexico.

Skimp through threads much?

My posts were clearly reffering to the stamp issue a few years back.

The stamp issue is irrelevant to this topic. I just used the Wikipedia link to show Mr.Expert in all things Latin, that Memin is considered RACIST among Latin American Civil Rights Groups.

 

[Funky Papa]

The stamp issue is irrelevant to this topic. I just used the Wikipedia link to show Mr.Expert in all things Latin, that Memin is considered RACIST among Latin American Civil Rights Groups.

I never said every single person in the continent agreed, but the exception doesn't make the rule: the fact is that Memin is highly considered in Latinamerica (including countries with very sizeable black populations), and some organizations protesting against it doesn't change that. That's all I wanted to say. Hell, the freakin LULAC also complained about Speedy Gonzales' "racist" despiction of Mexicans, a character that is loved in Mexico.

Your insults are unwarranted, BTW.

 

[SUPREME1]

You slimy piece of junk, how come you keep trolling Turkish threads then? Because butting in matters that concern you not, color you shocked?

Besides, it was a HISPANIC civil rights group, whose members ORIGINATE in countries like Mexico.

Lol, keep trolling Turksih threads? How many Turkish threads are their? And how do I kep trolling them?

Aside from that, there's a difference between discussing a topic on an online forum and gathering a large group, setting up a press conference and alerting the media in order to voice an opinion far and wide.

Lastly, didn't realize Jesse Jackson was hispanic and originated in Mexico. The more you know...



This reeks of the Muslim anti-cartoon debacle.

My stance was to let the local Muslims denounce it if they chose to do so... Even plan a strategy to fight it, it woud be their right... Afterall, it's their country, their issue.

But the Muslims in other countries going bat sh*t crazy.... that was silly, then disturbing.

 

[Kapsama]

Lol, keep trolling Turksih threads? How many Turkish threads are their? And how do I kep trolling them?

Don't act like you don't know what I'm talking about. You got your tag from one, for god's sake.

Aside from that, there's a difference between discussing a topic on an online forum and gathering a large group, setting up a press conference and alerting the media in order to voice an opinion far and wide.

But one countries congress passing judgement over other countries, does that count as butting according to you?

Lastly, didn't realize Jesse Jackson was hispanic and originated in Mexico. The more you know...

Who claimed this?

This reeks of the Muslim anti-cartoon debacle.

My stance was to let the local Muslims denounce it if they chose to do so... Even plan a strategy to fight it, it woud be their right... Afterall, it's their country, their issue.

But the Muslims in other countries going bat sh*t crazy.... that was silly, then disturbing.

Yes putting up cartoons akin to the Sturmer is disturbing alright and printing them over and over and over is disturbing alright.

I never said every single person in the continent agreed, but the exception doesn't make the rule: the fact is that Memin is highly considered in Latinamerica (including countries with very sizeable black populations), and some organizations protesting against it doesn't change that. That's all I wanted to say. Hell, the freakin LULAC also complained about Speedy Gonzales' "racist" despiction of Mexicans, a character that is loved in Mexico.

Your insults are unwarranted, BTW.

Yes you made that claim, which I disputed by posting that Wikipedia link.

And Memin does not compare to Speedy Gonzales. Last time I checked calling and comparing Mexicans to rats has no historical baggage attached to it.

I didn't insult you btw.

 

[Funky Papa]

I never said every single person in the continent agreed
...

Yes you made that claim, which I disputed by posting that Wikipedia link.

I think I'll quote myself again:

Fun fact: Memín is a positive character and is loved in Latinamerican countries with plenty of black/mixed people such as Colombia.

Again: I never said that every single person in the continent agreed. Both the character and the comic are loved in Latinamerica, and a couple of organizations protesting against it doesn't change that.