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Warhammer 40,000 |OT| In the Grim Darkness of the Community Forum There Is Only War

I'm interested to see how they structure in morale boosting factors. I would not be surprised if Orks had a mob rule rule where for every x amount of models in the units their bravery increases. Or boss poles. Or the characters synergising towards boosting bravery.

I expect Tyranids will have some kind of projected bravery boost from characters too.

I hope that's the case because otherwise I can see this edition quickly turning into a game of picking off one or two models from every unit so you can to force as many morale checks as possible. Not a problem for Marines with their 7 leadership, but terrible for low leadership swarms like Tyranids and Orks.
 

War Peaceman

You're a big guy.
Hmm.

I dont get why you lose models if you fail a morale test. Like, they die of fear?

It is a really elegant solution. It means you don't have to screw around with actually doing retreats, unless that is the tactically viable solution. So it gets rid of a rubbish process (fleeing) and gives the actual tactical choice of retreating whilst still making morale an important factor in the game. It works excellently in AOS.
 
Think of it as them running away from the fight. Either they make it away from the battle or they're cut down as they run.

It is a really elegant solution. It means you don't have to screw around with actually doing retreats, unless that is the tactically viable solution. So it gets rid of a rubbish process (fleeing) and gives the actual tactical choice of retreating whilst still making morale an important factor in the game. It works excellently in AOS.

Hrm. Sounds interesting. Me and my friend kinda skip the morale phase right now lol.
 
I like that there's now a difference between models fleeing from battle which is out of your control, and tactically withdrawing a squad from combat, with 8th edition rules allowing players to perform the latter by choice. I think individuals running away from battle makes more sense than an entire squad running away at the same time.
 

manfestival

Member
I hope that's the case because otherwise I can see this edition quickly turning into a game of picking off one or two models from every unit so you can to force as many morale checks as possible. Not a problem for Marines with their 7 leadership, but terrible for low leadership swarms like Tyranids and Orks.
Horde armies in aos are especially nasty. Keep in mind that there is a model and implementation of this already. I feel like a lot of the fear surrounding the changes are from those that are unfamiliar with aos
 

Nazo

Member
Sly Marbo is back with rules for Shadow War: Armageddon: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/03/shadow-war-armageddon-one-man-armies/

Edit: Also apparently teasing a new model for him aswell

C-6v_vqXgAAHIYP.jpg:large
 
Horde armies in aos are especially nasty. Keep in mind that there is a model and implementation of this already. I feel like a lot of the fear surrounding the changes are from those that are unfamiliar with aos

I've been nothing but positive about all the other changes, I just don't want to pay for 30 Orks and have them effectively kill themselves after taking 50% casualties.
 
Pretty sure that Sly model is just a kit bash. I have 3/4 of those parts on sprues right in front of me.

Loving the SW support! I hope it continues. It has really turned out to be quite popular. I would like to see an expansion with 2 new races and more terrain/different setting.

I am in the very beginning stages of planning out terrain to build and I am considering going off the grid a bit and doing Eldar or Tyranid themed. I am being pulled towards something more traditional with my spin on it as well, with an industrial site being reclaimed by nature.
 

Tacitus_

Member
Speaking of ADB, I really want this

blprocessed-01-05_blacklegion-ltd-ed_cover.jpg


but no way I'm going to fork over whatever they're going to be asking for the limited edition.
 

Ohnonono

Member
Late night painting because I couldn't sleep.



Still a touch more to go. Wondering if I should keep the rest of the Plaguebearers the same scheme or mix it up.

Love these. I have always wanted to make a Nurgle army and have never gotten around to it.
 
New Warhammer 40,000: Battle-forged Armies: https://www.warhammer-community.com...40000-battle-forged-armiesgw-homepage-post-4/

Battle-forged armies will be familiar to Warhammer 40,000 players today – it basically means that all the models in your army are part of a Detachment or Formation.

That is still largely true in the new Warhammer 40,000, but with a few changes.

The biggest of which is… wait for it…<puff of smoke>

Formations are gone.

That’s right, no more Formations. But don’t panic!

If your army is built using Formations right now, you’re going to be fine. In their place are a dozen new game-wide Detachments that are available to all factions. These are flexible enough that all of your current forces can be fit into them to form a Battle-forged army. The advantage of these is that all factions now have an even playing field of list building mechanics, rather than some having loads and some having to stick with the trusty Combined Arms option for every game.

These detachments are made up of a combination of 9 unit types, which will look very familiar to anyone who has played Warhammer 40,000 in the past two decades. Some you’ll recognise from Space Marines company markings and the classic Combined Arms detachment of today, plus Lords of War, Fortifications and the new one – Flyers, now with their own slot.

New40kBattleforged1.jpg


These Detachments come with a few benefits and restrictions. The most common restriction is that all units in a single Detachment must share a faction keyword (Tyranid, Blood Angels or Imperium for example). The most common bonus is that, depending on how optimised your army is for the logistics of war, you’ll get Command Points to spend. We’ll cover exactly what these can do for you soon, but trust us when we say they are incredibly useful if used wisely, and you generally get more of them if your army is a well rounded and balanced force.

Here are a few examples:

New40kBattleforgedDetachment1-500x194.jpg


New40kBattleforgedDetachment2-500x222.jpg


New40kBattleforgedDetachment3-500x358.jpg


These are just a taste of the options available.

Battle-forged armies can be used with or without points, and we fully expect gamers playing matched or narrative play games to use these in most situations as they tend to create effective armies on the tabletop that also fit the background and lore of the setting. Matched play actually has a few extra rules too, designed for competitive events, which organisers can choose to use when setting the rules for Battle-forged armies – limits on the number of separate Detachments is one example.
 
I like the concept, but I feel like this may weigh things towards MSU, something my orks and tyranids are notably bad at. :-/ Guess we will see, but Im glad I have other armies right now.
 
MSU works terribly with the new morale system.
Depends on the unit size and Ld. Ld10 Nids or Grey Knights are functionally immune to the tests for 5 man units. Even if they lose 4 dudes, the worst they'll roll results in 0 losses. Naturally other things can modify that, but as that goes both ways I'm going with base rules.
 
Depends on the unit size and Ld. Ld10 Nids or Grey Knights are functionally immune to the tests for 5 man units. Even if they lose 4 dudes, the worst they'll roll results in 0 losses. Naturally other things can modify that, but as that goes both ways I'm going with base rules.

For armies that specialise in a few small elite units, like Grey Knights, it probably won't be an issue as they'd be unplayable otherwise. I doubt Tyranids will get Ld 10 when even marines have dropped to 7. I'm guessing it'll be pretty low for most units and will get a bump around synapse creatures. I think they want to avoid the situation where large numbers of models are functionally immune to morale like we have currently.
 

EYEL1NER

Member
Just keep reading and you might get your wish.
I finished Honour Guard. It took a bit longer than I would have liked though. I was surprised to see the thing I wanted addressed so quickly; when I read your comment, I figured that it would pop up in two or three books, like long enough to kind of forget that Criid has his kids. I imagine this won't be the last time Kolea, Criid, and the kids come up though.

Honour Guard was really good. It has some fantastic moments, like the tank battles and the ayatani girl's talks with Dorden and Milo where she comes to the realization that the entire way of life on Hagia re: constant learning and being an ayatani is fucked, because the only thing that matters is war (I got one of those giddy "omg, they said the name of the movie in the movie!" moments when she specifically said there was "only war"). The tank battles were really good though and make me wish Dan did a spinoff for a tank team. He did Double Eagle and Titanicus; a tank book would have been a nice way to bookend his GG sidestory books (it would have made them a trilogy as well, making them ripe for an omnibus re-release). Now I'm kind of bummed he didn't write one.

I started Guns of Tanith this morning. One question for you, Tacitus: How quickly in the series do they address what happened after Hagia with General Lugo? I don't need to know what happens, but I do know that Lugo hasn't been seen for the last time. Gaunt was supposed to be finished after the honor guard mission and the Ghosts were to be taken from him because of his Doctrinopolis "failure." I expected it to be the first thing touched upon in Honour Guard but it wasn't. Am I to just assume that the result of the honor guard mission was such a success and he and Hark were able to explain everything bad away enough that the Doctrinopolis stuff was overlooked? Or does it actually get addressed sometime early in Honour Guard?
 

Tacitus_

Member

I wonder how those work with Armies without transports - get ones from your general faction instead? Mainly thinking about AdMech here.

I started Guns of Tanith this morning. One question for you, Tacitus: How quickly in the series do they address what happened after Hagia with General Lugo? I don't need to know what happens, but I do know that Lugo hasn't been seen for the last time. Gaunt was supposed to be finished after the honor guard mission and the Ghosts were to be taken from him because of his Doctrinopolis "failure." I expected it to be the first thing touched upon in Honour Guard but it wasn't. Am I to just assume that the result of the honor guard mission was such a success and he and Hark were able to explain everything bad away enough that the Doctrinopolis stuff was overlooked? Or does it actually get addressed sometime early in Honour Guard?

Can't really remember and wiki isn't being any helpful. He apparently gets "demoted" to planetary governor and doesn't do much since.
 
War Zone: Cadia - https://www.warhammer-community.com...-40000-war-zone-cadia-may6gw-homepage-post-4/

Did you think we were finished with Cadia?

Think again.

We saw the fall of the fortress world as the catalyst that began the events of the Gathering Storm. Abaddon’s greatest Black Crusade smashed against the defences of the planet in overwhelming force, but not before the world’s defenders enacted a devastating toll on the attackers.

The planet’s stubborn defence also bought the Imperium precious time to entrench forces on neighbouring worlds and systems; siege works were dug, artillery emplaced, and weapons raised to the sky to await the coming onslaught.

Abaddon was successful though, and following the fall of Cadia (and possibly, because of it) a great warp rift rent the galaxy in half, allowing the forces of Chaos to launch their attacks across the entire length of the Imperium.

As they dispersed, though, their strength around the Cadian Sector – as well as in and around the Eye of Terror itself – thinned. Many warbands of Traitor Legionaries and renegades, some in direct disregard of the Despoiler’s orders, used the opportunity to bypass the defenders of the Gate entirely and launch their attacks on more vulnerable worlds elsewhere in the galaxy.

This has left huge numbers of Imperial defenders deployed around Cadia awaiting a coordinated Chaos second wave that may never come. There are whispers in Imperial Sector Command of the possibility of retaliatory strikes, of claiming back some territory lost in the recent war, and even of reclaiming the ruins of Cadia herself.

New40kWarZoneCadiaMap.jpg


Poised around the Eye sits a force of Space Marines rivalling that of the Legions of old, entire Knight Households, and of course, the orphans of Cadia themselves – more than 200 regiments of Astra Militarum shock troops eager for vengeance.

Cadia may have broken; the Guard, have not.

We’re sure a few of you Imperial players have been itching for retaliation since the Storm came to Cadia. Maybe your time is now…

We’ll be back tomorrow with more news on the new edition, when we look at how the biggest models in the game will work.
 
Large Models! https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/07/new-warhammer-40000-big-stuff-may7gw-homepage-post-4/

There are a few big changes here, though we covered some of them a little when we looked at profiles. Like the three units we've seen already, every model will be using the same profile system, so everything will have Wounds, Toughness, Strength, etc... This includes all vehicles.

We've also gotten rid of specific rules for Gargantuan Creatures and Super-heavy vehicles. Instead, these units will have a suitably impressive statline, but still play by the same rules as everyone else. This also means that those units that previously sat just shy of Super-heavy status, and missed out on bunch of special rules because of it, will now be appropriately killy and durable.

You'll soon see that some of Warhammer 40,000's biggest hitters have A LOT of Wounds, high Toughness and a good save. The biggest Tyranid monsters now have over a dozen wounds, where Imperial Knights have over 20!

This makes them almost infinitely survivable against small arms fire, but means that high-power weapons that can take chunks of wounds off at a time (lascannons, powerfists, battle cannons, etc) can take them down relatively quickly when brought to bear in force. Gone are the days of a lucky first-turn meltagun blowing up your Land Raider. (A squad of them will still ruin its day though...)

There are almost no weapons in the game now that can instantly kill these big guys, so there will be no shortcuts to dealing with them &#8211; you have to get your hands dirty and take those Wounds off.

New40kLargeModelsMorkanautProfile-1.jpg


Whoa, so &#8211; with 18 Wounds at Toughness 8, this guy is a tough cookie to crack &#8211; able to wade through bolter fire untroubled and requiring a lot of heavy weapons shots to take down.

You can see, though, as it gets to the point of only having half its Wounds left, this walker starts to get less effective &#8211; it will move slower and its attacks will get more clumsy as servos are fused, and sensor arrays fail to register.

At 4 Wounds left, it's all but crippled, though its shooting output will be undiminished &#8211; so it starts as a combat wrecking ball at the beginning of the battle, crashing through enemy lines, and ends up as more of a semi-mobile shooting fortress at the end of its life.

Different vehicles will be reduced in effectiveness in different ways too &#8211; some will get worse at shooting, some will slow down, and some some will become less effective in melee.

So, the big stuff sounds pretty scary!

We'll be back tomorrow with some good news for the little guys, when we look at how infantry work, and how combined firepower can be used to topple even the mightiest foes.
 
No more explodes/immobilised/weapon destroyed results rendering expensive models utterly useless in one lucky hit! This is fine by me.

Looking forward to tomorrow's post. Something they mentioned before is how anything will technically be able to wound anything else, and I love the idea of 60+ Orks swarming over an imperial knight.
 

Maledict

Member
First faction focus article is... Chaos Space Marines! https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/07/faction-focus-chaos-space-marines/

Too bad it's an absolutely pointless article that tells us nothing. No unit profiles, no special rules or weapons, just rambling about how cool things will be so we should be excited.

That is honestly one of the worse things I have ever read. Someone needs to tell the author that just adding exclamation points at the end of every sentence doesn't magically make it good.
 
Infantry: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/08/17794gw-homepage-post-4/

The new Warhammer 40,000 will give infantry a chance to shine. There is stuff you just can't do with very well with vehicles, bikes and walkers, like hold ruins, use cover effectively and swarm the battlefield in numbers to claim every objective.

One thing that is certainly going to help infantry out is the fact that everything can harm everything in the game. We've heard already that characteristics don't cap at 10 anymore, so the old 10×10 strength vs toughness table was in for an update. In the new edition, there's a simple but elegant system to find out what you need to wound:

New40kInfantryTable-239x500.jpg


So, you can see that while even the humble lasgun has a chance to take down the biggest foe, you'll need a lot of small-arms fire to really threaten the big stuff. We've already seen the profiles of a Space Marine, a bolter, a lascannon and a Gorkanaut, and now we know all the steps to work out just how such a Shooting phase might go. Some quick maths tells us that we'd need over 500 bolters firing at that Gorkanaut to bring it down, whereas you'd need just over a dozen lascannons. So, while you might occasionally chip the odd wound off with bolters, lasguns or shootas, you might find that your standard infantry guns are better used elsewhere.

Not a problem though, because in the new Warhammer 40,000, models in a squad can fire at different targets. So, this means your Tactical Squad can have your boys with bolters deal with that onrushing Hormagaunt horde, while the flamer bathes a nearby Lictor in prometheum fire, and the squad's krak missile takes an opportunistic pop-shot at that onrushing Carnifex &#8211; just as you always imagined they should!

Infantry is going to have a lot to offer a cunning general in this edition.

Tomorrow, we'll take a look at how characters work, join us then.

Split fire! Woohoo! Makes so much more sense.
 
I will assume you will have to call all targets before you start rolling at least. It would be insanely slow on a model by model basis.
 

Leunam

Member
Split fire holy shit. I'm liking this a lot.

And the new damage rolls are nice too. Very simple but an improvement to me.
 
It just set in the survival boost the new To-Wound chart is for T6 models. 2+ krak Missiles are now 3+. Have to get to S12 to get 2+ now.
 
Especially for devastator type units, which had a model whose sole purpose is to direct the fire of his squad... at one unit at a time. Like every other squad does on its own. Even Grots.
 
I will assume you will have to call all targets before you start rolling at least. It would be insanely slow on a model by model basis.

Yeah, calling the targets for the models in the unit first is how it works in AoS so it'll probably be the same here. Can be a bit of a gamble to split fire sometimes, depends on the situation though!
 
Random question. It looks like more realistically proportioned Space Marines are going to be released, but I just happened upon this Deathwatch squad.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/10-man-kill-team

Is it simply that the legs are in less of a 'sitting in a horse saddle' stance that these marines look far better in terms of height/proportions?

They did seem to make them a bit bigger, and with straighter legs:

Same with the Marines in the paint set:
 

shas'la

Member
I will assume you will have to call all targets before you start rolling at least. It would be insanely slow on a model by model basis.

I hope its not too granular.. I'd like each "type" of weapon in a squad to fire at a different target but not each individual model.
 
I got my copy of Nightbringer today at the recommendation of GAF in here. One question! The book keeps referencing Codex Astartes. I keep mentally coughing over the word because I'm confident I'm not saying it right. I want to just say it ay-starts. Or ay-startees? They both sound wrong in my head.

Random question. It looks like more realistically proportioned Space Marines are going to be released, but I just happened upon this Deathwatch squad.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/10-man-kill-team

Is it simply that the legs are in less of a 'sitting in a horse saddle' stance that these marines look far better in terms of height/proportions?
Wait. Are Space Marines really not properly proportioned? I thought I was crazy, because I always thought they, and most all space marine and types like them looked really goofy, especially their faces for those without helmets. Like...the heads were the same giant size as helmets.
 
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