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Were the Smashing Pumpkins the "perfect" band?

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A

AlphaSnake

...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
I'm just sitting here listening to Melissa Auf Der Maur's debut (which is soooo fucking owning me right now) and I just started to think how talented they all are. Here was a band with two unbelievably versatile guitarists who had rhythm oozing through their veins. James is one of my favorite guitarists of all time and a lot of has to do with the fact that Billy sort of mentored and molded Iha's guitar playing. Both of these guys can shred like madmen, and they never play their solos in the same pattern (like Metallica does).

D'Arcy never really proved herself, so I can't say much about her. Melissa on the other hand, here's a gorgeous French-Canadian redhead who can not only play the bass, but she can play guitar and sing every bit as well. Listening to her debut work and some covers that she's worked on, Melissa is a terribly talented girl. And then the Pumpkins had a drummer who was every bit as powerful as he looked. Chamberlin, like Grohl to Nirvana, made the Pumpkins' heavier tracks that much more enjoyable.

In a way, I'll be honest and say that I'm actually glad that SP no longer exists; it's allowed for James and Melissa to venture out on their own and create/work on some incredibly beautiful work. Melissa's debut is wonderful, imo. James Iha's generous contributions for the record are fantasic (he recorded every song with Melissa). Now James is doing the whole APC thing and some other side projects, and I'm absolutely loving it. Billy's new record is in the making right now, and Jimmy should be right behind Billy doing the whole drumming thing.

So...in a way, the Smashing Pumpkins were the perfect band. The band was an assembly of practically flawless musicians. I thought pretty hard about and couldn't up with a band nearly as talented...maybe Blink 182...maybe. :p
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
yes, they were. there will never again be a band like the pumpkins. probably my favorite band of all time, but no less than 3rd. the lyrics, the music, the entire "personality" of the band was something we will never see again.

it was terrible to see them break up and go out that way. the pumpkins changed my life for the better (for instance, if it weren't for the pumpkins, i wouldn't know my gf), and i'm sure they changed a lot of other lives for the better as well. hopefully they can all keep making awesome music in their own projects.
 
D

Dead

well not really...yet
Well, i dont think there is such a thing as a perfect band, and the pumpkins obviously arent going by all theire problems in theire later years. But in talknig about personal preference, then maybe. I have a lot of emotional attachement to a lot of the stuff and was devastated when they broke up...sigh...

Siamese Dream is pretty much perfect though, so is gish. Adore and Mellon Collie are fantastic, Machina is the black sheep.

Edit: I should slap you for that last comment :p




Edit 2:Zwan was perfect on paper...:(
 
karasu

karasu

Member
As a unit they weren't my style. They have a few songs I dig, but that's it. I like what Iha and Auf Der MAur have done seperately though.
 
A

AlphaSnake

...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
DeadStar said:
Well, i dont think there is such a thing as a perfect band...

Edit: I should slap you for that last comment :p




Edit 2:Zwan was perfect on paper...:(
Click to expand...

I meant theoretically/on paper they were a perfect band, because they were all so frigin talented. And yeah, Zwan was also the perfect theoretical band...until they began recording.
 
D

Dead

well not really...yet
AlphaSnake said:
I meant theoretically/on paper they were a perfect band, because they were all so frigin talented. And yeah, Zwan was also the perfect theoretical band...until they began recording.
Click to expand...
I dunno Zwan couldve made a fantastic record but they didnt include any of the great stuff they played during theire first shows...idiots....
 
D

Dead

well not really...yet
oh yeah, going by this logic, "the perfect band" is not hard to find. Bands with members who can play theire instruments very well are a dime a dozen, but none of that really matters unless theyre capable of great song writing, and can make you feel something out of theire music.

Just listen to half of the modern prog rock/metal nonsense that comes out in these days, if youre happy with nothing but a band who is perfect by virtue of theire musicianship. Which it seems many people are content with, ie - tool

whatever its almost 2 am, so im probably not making sense
 
M

Matlock

Banned
rs_aus_615july03_pg2.jpg


"You don't know shit, Alpha!"
 
I

IJoel

Member
No.

Smashing Pumpkins was mainly driven by Billy Corgan. The other band members should sing him praises for carrying them along the way.

Say what you will, but SP was as successful as it was because of BC's genius. James Iha, nor D'arcy nor Chamberlain could've made it without him and I'm absolutely certain BC would've made it without them.

So is it the perfect band? No.
 
I

Ill Saint

Member
Objectively speaking, they are not particularly exceptional musicians by any great margin.
If your music spectrum encompasses only modern rock music, well... I'd have a hard time saying yes in that instance too.
 
D

Dead

well not really...yet
Ill Saint said:
Objectively speaking, they are not particularly exceptional musicians by any great margin.
Click to expand...
id beg to differ. Chamberlin is a fantastic drummer, no doubt about that, and Corgan is a rather good guitarist I might add. Live and in studio.
 
I

Ill Saint

Member
He's a good drummer, yes... but I hesistate to say he is more than that.
Corgan, no. Not at all. I'd say he is competent at best.

The band together, though, did well as a unit and complimented each other nicely.

Just my opinion based on the music I am familiar with.
 
I

IJoel

Member
Ill Saint said:
He's a good drummer, yes... but I hesistate to say he is more than that.
Corgan, no. Not at all. I'd say he is competent at best.

The band together, though, did well as a unit and complimented each other nicely.

Just my opinion based on the music I am familiar with.
Click to expand...

The best band doesn't necessarily need to be composed of the best musicians.

Chamberlain is certainly an outstanding drummer, but a drummer is worthless without a songwriter and Billy was an amazing one at that.

That said, I don't think it was the perfect band.
 
I

IJoel

Member
Ill Saint said:
I'm leaning towards saying otherwise. But it's debatable, definitely.
Click to expand...

You can have the best musicians put together in a band, but if they can't work together and lack chemistry, they won't go anywhere.

On the other hand you can have great musicians form a band, complement each other and create great music.

This doesn't mean the best musicians can't form the perfect band, but that it doesn't have to be the case.
 
D

Dead

well not really...yet
Of course theres exceptions, many bands include pretty competent musicians but compose utterly worthless music.
 
I

Ill Saint

Member
Just as a reference point if anyone's curious, check out the group Naked City. A group made up of some utterly exceptional musicians who have honed their craft for decades playing in all sorts Jazz/Avant garde/Improv groups.

This bands music spanned the range from Hardcore Punk, Grind, Jazz, Surf, Soundtrack, Country, and sometimes all these styles in one song. Musicianship at its finest.
 
E

etiolate

Banned
This forum's love affair with SP continues. I don't quite understand it. I love the pumpkins, but I don't think they were even the best band of their time period.
 
L

LakeEarth

Member
While of course they weren't the perfect band (just for non-musical reasons alone, drummer fired, piano player o.d.), but there won't ever be another band like them. So yeah, it's sad that they are no more.

But I was really sad when Soundgarden broke up, but hey, if that didn't happen we wouldn't have Audioslave now.
 
I

Infinitemadness

Member
If you ever been to one of their shows, my god never has a band rocked harder. Which proved they had the potential to dominate all but never captured that on an album. Its sad, still my fav band growin up.
 
D

Diablos

Member
What you said I've realized many times, but man, I just downloaded the 1996-04-07 DVD, and this show is FLAWLESS. If you want it, search sharingthegroove.org. I'll post the link if you can't find it. I'd upload it, but it's like 3.5 gigs. I left my comp on for five days so it could download, and it was worth it. Every Pumpkins fan should get this DVD. They all sound incredible, even Darcy. Seeing them play Ruby and Porcelina during this show really confirms that they were indeed perfect, and especially makes the point you made about their guitar playing very clear. The way they played Ruby live during that time period makes my jaw drop, but it's SO PERFECT during this performance. The whole damn show is. They sound so tight, look so confident, and play everything so perfectly. It's a shame Corgan/Iha don't get recognized as being amazing guitarists and that Chamberlin doesn't get as much praise as say, Dave Grohl. All everyone ever says about SP is that it had some bald whiny dude that sang that "rat in a cage song." Sad.

Rest of the "essay" removed to shut up all you haters.
 
M

Musashi Wins!

FLAWLESS VICTOLY!
I think the "on paper" argument perfectly summarizes the Pumpkins. They never, ever lived up to the hype or potential they had. So the title of this thread is way misleading.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Musashi Wins! said:
I think the "on paper" argument perfectly summarizes the Pumpkins. They never, ever lived up to the hype or potential they had. So the title of this thread is way misleading.
Click to expand...

How the hell would you know?
 
M

Musashi Wins!

FLAWLESS VICTOLY!
Diablos said:
How the hell would you know?
Click to expand...

see the "on paper" argument. Or rather maybe they just weren't that great and there was no potential missed. Also, saw them live twice in the 90's and they bit. Nyaa.

Pearl Jam were always very good live <shrug>
 
I

Ill Saint

Member
Err... I could bang on forver about why my favourite band is the "perfect band", but how can anyone state such a thing objectively?

What's the criteria anyway? Modern "Alternative" rock? If so, I'd say Jane's Addiction lead the pack here, as they released 2 albums (we'll ignore Strays) that are all-time classics, and influenced the likes of the Pumpkins in the process.

But then again, you've got the Pixies... so in the end, what's the point exactly?

Ill Saint: I bet to differ as well... but to each his own. SP had a really unique chemistry that a bunch of below average musicians could never come up with.
Click to expand...

Not saying otherwise (at least I don't think I did?). I liked SP back in the day, they rocked well and made some great songs, and while not below average musicians, they could never be called great, with Chamberlin being the possible exception.
 
I

Infinitemadness

Member
I think i'm gonna have to agree with the on paper thing. The only thing is if people read the paper in the early 90's they'd say "meh". Pumpkins is gonna be one of those bands whos respect wont come until they are "classic rock" You can already see it happening.

Billy even admited how he and the rest of the early 90s bands had so much potential to rule rock but they dropped the car keys and blew it. The singles they put out, great but not all or many of them besides the Siamese Dream singles reached an audience like the more rockin pumpkin songs would have. Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness is still one of the greatest albums of the 90s and is already destined to be one of the greats of all time.
 
F

firex

Member
No, they weren't. Pink Floyd, The Beatles and Led Zeppelin are the only ones I can think of that can be considered close to "perfect" (and they aren't really my favorite bands).
 
K

KingGondo

Banned
No. If we're going by a) each member being great individual musicians, b) each making their own unique and important contribution to the band, c) vast influence on culture, including subsequent musical groups, and d) a classic, unassailable catalogue, there are only a couple that need apply:

Zep

The Beatles
 
R

Raxel

Member
Zeppelin? Dream Theater, Mr. Big and Racer X are easily the most technically proficient bands.

I'm pretty biased but I'd say Roth-era Van Halen are the closest you can get to a "perfect" band when you compare the overall package (influence, the songs, the live show, technical ability, etc).
 
S

Semjaza Azazel

Member
I really like the Smashing Pumpkins... for awhile they really were on the top of the world. It seemed like they had countless hit singles all over the place here in Chicago, and a lot of them were off the same release heh.

I'd never consider them perfect. They have some releases I'd consider near perfect, but definitely not the band itself. Hell, I don't even think my favorite musician, David Bowie, is perfect in that sense.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Musashi Wins! said:
see the "on paper" argument. Or rather maybe they just weren't that great and there was no potential missed. Also, saw them live twice in the 90's and they bit. Nyaa.

Pearl Jam were always very good live <shrug>
Click to expand...

Your reply has biased written all over it. SP rocks live, their bootlegs don't lie. I'm trying to reencode a live track and upload the video for all of the fellow sp fans in this thread..
 
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