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Werewolf |OT| Was it all just a Dream?

T

Trigger

Member
So just looking at the posts from a few players, here are the reads I mentioned providing earlier:

Swamped: I think Swamped's been helpful to town for the most part (or at least not actively anti-town) in her posts. She's made contributive posts, and nothing seems inherently suspicious. Her having a connection to batsnacks has been brought up, but I don't see anything wrong with her response unless bat flips scum. Leaning town.

Makai: I've been reading over his posts, but I'm not really sure what I think of him. I want to see more of his reaction to today's events. I'm not quick to assume town because of the lack of anything suspicious.

GTL: I don't think he's scum just yet. His posting style feels like what I'd expect from a newbie. He's been noticeably absent today, but so have a lot of posters. Not much more to go on until he posts more.
 
B

batsnacks

Member
I don't think the game is far enough along to vote off people who are actually playing and responding to pressure effectively; even though Time seems to have had more information than he should have d2; and Fireblend and flux on D3. Having too much information is a HUGE red flag. If one person is right and everyone else is wrong, they're probably a wolf.

Unvote

Flux, in both games, responded to pressure in a way that made him more suspicious. It's tempting to give a pass for that but it is also tempting to vote him again.

My claim might have been a waste because aside from lots of discussion with a few people, it doesn't look like anything useful will come of it today. I think there are too many inactive people to be voting anywhere else but the inactives.
 
S

Swamped

Banned
Swamped said:
I may as well switch my vote to where my suspicions lie right now.

VOTE: Timeaisis
Click to expand...

:( I voted for Timeaisis but my vote for him isn't showing up. Did I spell his name wrong? Don't think so.

I wanted to bring up a minor point about Flux. Initially his defensiveness made me wary because it's how I think a wolf who is in heat would act. But now, I'm thinking that the 'aggressiveness' is just part of his personality, I don't think it's a scumtell in and of itself (I don't think anybody is taking it to be like that, but just thought I'd mention it).

Having ruminated on it for a while, I still believe batsnacks. I'm inclined to believe Zipped too, even if I don't think his revealing was the right move for town. But it's ok, at least it got people talking.
 
S

Swamped

Banned
batsnacks said:
My claim might have been a waste because aside from lots of discussion with a few people, it doesn't look like anything useful will come of it today. I think there are too many inactive people to be voting anywhere else but the inactives.
Click to expand...

Voting inactives is alright, and there probably are some wolves hiding among them (inactive scum definitely exist). The only problem I have with this is if we expect 3 deaths every night. And if we do, then we really don't have that many mislynches yet.
 
K

kingkitty

Member
Alright, so we have another role claim, this time by batsnacks.

Everyone seems to be writing up scenarios for why so-and-so died so I'll try to give it a go.

Day 1:
Scum killed Drop (could also be done by a neutral like a serial killer I guess)
Scum/vig/sk/etc tried to kill Ultron but was protected by batsnacks (assuming batsnacks isn't lying)
Vig/sk/etc killed Terra
cabot protected someone else. Or maybe cabot tried to save Drop but was blocked.

In this scenario scum might have up to 2 killing abilities, although if a serial neutral killed Drop for some reason, then at first glance scum might only have 1 killing ability. But with the size of this game, having 2 kill abilities doesn't seem that much of a stretch. So perhaps scum first got blocked trying to kill Ultron, and then they tried to kill someone else but got blocked too? But then that would contradict what batsnacks was saying about the target list. So my gut tells me it's a bit more likely scum killed Drop, instead of a serial killer.

Why would scum go for Ultron? Maybe they were suspicious of Ultron's early claiming of sleepwalker. But maybe it wasn't scum, but someone else/vig/sk who had their own suspicions.

The vig/sk/someone killed Terra. cabot later posts that the doctor should've protected Drop, as a way to distance himself from the doctor role, and maybe show some cheeky regret. batsnacks protects Ultron, based off the target list. Doesn't go for the confirmed townie PR out of fear, like a scum watcher or something.

Day 2:
batsnacks killed cabot
Vig/sk/mafia/etc killed splinter/cornbro

batsnacks killed cabot out of suspicion. Vig/sk/mafia/etc killed splinter/cornbro.

But then, like the others have mentioned, where was the killing ability from Day 1?

1) It could be another one-shot kill ability. Maybe it's even a two-shot, three-shot ability which forces the user to carefully choose which days to use it, and he/she decided not to use it on Day 2. Might be from vig, sk, another townie, another neutral, or scum.

2) This person with unlimited kill ability decides not to use it on Day 2 for some reason of I dunno what.

3) There was another kill, but like Day 1 a kill was blocked by an unknown individual.

4) This one is Ouroboloulus inspired, but maybe it was 50/50 percent kill shot, and the person missed this time.

5) This kill ability only works on odd days.

6) This kill ability has to charge up like a spirit bomb. So after one use, the person has to wait a couple of day phases to use it again. This idea, plus number 5, are something I can see as a way of balancing the scum. While scum might have two kill abilities, the second kill takes a little more time to do.

7) batsnacks is lying.

If batsnacks is scum, then perhaps out of some bold play, he lies about Ultron getting targeted. This gives cover to scumbro Ultron, because it might imply that scum was trying to kill him. Which could mean that was no additional kill ability on Day 1. The additional death today might be due to the second scum kill ability, which for some reason was used on Day 1 instead of Day 2. Maybe this was an ability that only works on even days.

Maybe Ultron isn't scum, but batsnacks still is. He used the secondary kill ability on cabot because scum knew cabot was a doctor thanks to their investigator. Or maybe it was the fact that he was deputized. Or it was just a guess kill. Worried that a townie PR caught him doing this, batsnacks tries to create a townie backstory.

If this was a scumbro play to save Ultron, the timing of it seems weird. Ultron didn't seem to be in trouble. I don't think there was any talk of killing Ultron for this day phase. I guess it could've been some preemptive move. If it was the latter scenario, that batsnacks had a secondary kill ability and was covering for himself, I don't see the wisdom doing an early fake claim (without any duress). Especially since he might have an important scum power. And it would seem like the claim would fall apart if he's ever tracked again.

Also, I'm having a hard time thinking Zipped and batsnacks are both on the scum side (at least for the moment). One early role claim can be a dicey play for scum, doing two early role claims on Day 3 is a little too dicey and unnecessary. I can see the logic of townie batsnacks role claiming since he already used up both of his one-shot abilities. But I can't see that logic for Zipped. So for now I'm keeping Zipped in the scum region, while batsnacks stays in the slightest of slight town region. My belly rumbles may be reevaluated in the future. Especially if Zipped flips town, and we continue to have these high night kills.

Anyways, feel free to correct me on the night kills if I made any mistakes. Also I'm writing another post brb.
 
F

Fireblend

Banned
Bats, I truly believe you're being honest about your suspicions, and I can only speak for myself, but I still don't see how leaning towards the most simplest scenario given a two-night pattern is an indication of "having too much information". Given scenario X, the most simple explanation is usually the right one. Can you think of a simpler explanation for what we've seen than a Doctor protecting someone on D1?

Anyway, I want to put this behind us so we can actually get to hunting scum. Here's my top town and scum:

Top town: Burb and Crimson are the ones I feel more confident about. I feel like if they became more active, Tim, Kitty and Makai could join them, it feels like they're genuinely frustrated about not nailing scum, but they're also waiting for town to that for them, I'd like to see them pick up the slack. Tim said he'd be more active so I'm hoping to see more of that - and I have, I'm just holding out for more consistency.

Bats and Time are there too, I feel like I've seen the "town vs. town getting carried away on some long-shot argument" and this feels like it, but at the same time I don't want to be definitive on this, they're sort of just barely inside my town perception and could change.

Top scum:

Xam - I don't need to say more than what I already have. He's been actively anti town and it feels like his activity is 100% about potential role theories, 0% engaging with others. I know that some are starting to read him as town, but I just don't buy it.

Zipped - His claim was weird and his justification for claiming was nonsensical. Tim pointed out some inconsistency between a previous statement and his GLT vote, and said maybe he was fishing for votes, which seems kind of reaching but still, if we're looking for people acting suspicious, Zipped fits the bill.

Boo Boo'n - Here's some previous posts of mine, the first one in response to his reads from yesterday:

Fireblend said:
Would you mind adding a top town list to go along with that?
Click to expand...

Fireblend said:
Also, regarding my current vote: Boo Boo'n, I don't think you have replied to my request for your top town list yet. Pretty please?
Click to expand...

Fireblend said:
Unvote: Boo Boo'n

He never replied to my request for a top town list, but we're at day's end and that's hardly enough to suspect him let alone lynch him.
Click to expand...

Fireblend said:
Boo Boo'n

I repeatedly asked for your town reads yesterday and you never bothered to provide them. Mind doing so now? And what about your reads now that another day has passed? Are you still suspicious of Bats?
Click to expand...

He's posted several times since, and guess what he has yet to do. Why are you so afraid, Boo? I said yesterday you not giving me some town reads wasn't enough to keep my vote on you, but this is starting to look weird. Is your plan to just straight-up ignore me and hope I go away? Come on.

The "inactives": So, we have a very real inactives problem. GLT, Sketch, 'Bro, MattyG... on one hand it's very possible there's scum on that list. On the other... if we misfire we're sort of doing scum's job by denying ourselves any useful info that would come from the flip of a more active player. If we decide to lynch an inactive who has barely been in the game, we'll be relying on the NKs to clue us in on where to go next, and that's wolf territory, we're letting them move first, and that's something they'd like.

Burb, Swamped, Xam, Zipped and MattyG voted for GLT in relatively quick succession. Burb justified his vote, but the other votes seemed bandwagony and reactionary. If GLT isn't scum, I'd be willing to bet at least one of those 4 is. Xam is among them, so there's one more reason I'm keeping my vote on him for now.

Going to sleep.
 
M

MattyG

Banned
Fireblend said:
Snip
Click to expand...
My vote for GLT is just me sticking with my vote from day 2 which, to be fair, the justification for it was going off of others' justifications. I stand by it completely though, they're still at the top of my scum list.

MattyG's Day 2 Vote said:
It's been brought up multiple times, but their voting yesterday seemed a bit all over the place and strange. I'm not incredibly confident they're scum, but they're the one I'm most confident about at the moment.
Click to expand...
 
C

CzarTim

Member
GLT is up for prodding, I believe.

Re: Switchers - Palmer may have given scum an x-shot switcher like I had in NX. But that'd be weird because of course they'd use it on drop night one.

Also, I still don't buy wolves having multiple kills unless it's very limited. That'd be pretty OP.
 
C

CzarTim

Member
Burbeting said:
I also want to return to this post by Tim.



I disagree here. If you look at how votes were going until last 30 minutes, it was:

Style (4)
CrimsonFist
xamtheking
Fireblend
Splinter

GreatLord Tiger (4)
Burbeting
Rats
MattyG
Ultron

It was not decided at all at the 15 minute point. Also, remember that the votes to Style from Trigger, Batsnacks, Swamped and Zipper then came at almost the same minute, at a point where there was not much time until the end of day. Makai was the only one who voted so much later, that he most likely was able to see the other new votes.

I'm not suggesting that this heap of players is full of scum (I think Bats is town, as I believe is claim), but it's a good possibility that at least some of the scum panicked, and voted at the last 15 minutes, and did not dare to take their vote away then, after seeing that others had already joined. I think Trigger as a new subber and Makai for already seeing that his vote was not going to matter, can be excused, and Bats is town to me. So this leaves Swamped and Zipped, for me.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I retracted that point after going back and reading it again.
 
C

CzarTim

Member
Burbeting said:
Swamped/Zipper: I choose both of them specifically for this reason: They were both part of the very late Style bandwagon, yet when Day 3 comes, and I call them out from it, they both immediately jump to voting GreatLord Tiger. Why, if you both thought he was more likely town than Style? Swamped then changed her vote, and deemed that there was enough pressure on GLT.
Click to expand...
Burbeting said:
So this leaves Swamped and Zipped, for me.
Click to expand...

Actually, to expand on this point: You find them suspicious for a last minute vote on Style, but your original post was working on the assumption that GLT is scum. Does Swamped and Zipp voting for GLT change your opinion of any of them?
 
P

Palmer_v1

Member
CzarTim said:
GLT is up for prodding, I believe.

Re: Switchers - Palmer may have given scum an x-shot switcher like I had in NX. But that'd be weird because of course they'd use it on drop night one.

Also, I still don't buy wolves having multiple kills unless it's very limited. That'd be pretty OP.
Click to expand...

I prodded him earlier today. Giving him a day to respond.
 
S

Swamped

Banned
YesNOnoNOYes said:
suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure swampie. suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure.

:>
Click to expand...

I'm an idiot :p
images


CzarTim said:
You're tripping all over yourself, swampie. Are your shoes united?
Click to expand...

United they stand, divided they fall?
 
K

kingkitty

Member
CzarTim said:
It's also possible cabot actually saved someone last night while also getting killed.
Click to expand...

lol, that's very possible.

Forgot to consider what cabot was doing during night 2. Indeed he may have been able to block scum/someone else.

Anyways, here's my hot take on Timeasis:

Didn't do much during Day 1, but that's probably due to thanksgiving. During this phase Time showed a little suspicion towards Xam. During Day 2, he showed a little jabbing against Makai, Dave, and Starsketch. The obvious weird thing that Flux pointed out is how he denied trying to start a bandwagon against Starsketch. Timeaisis argues he never put a vote on Starsketch.

And he's right, he never voted for Star. Odd why Time agreed with batsnacks that Star was the "best bet" but never bothered to put a vote on her. If you truly think Star is the best bet for scum on Day 1 (and you can support your reasoning), where's the vote? Where's the beef taco? Time agreed with batsnacks that Star was the best choice, later put Star on his suspect list, and never followed through. All the weirder since Time put a vote on Great Lord Tiger towards the end of the Day 2 phase, and said Tiger was the best bet. If Star the best bet earlier, why the change of heart? Was Tiger a far more persuasive choice than Star? Did he give off better scum vibes than Star? I tried to look for the explanation from Time for the change of heart. I couldn't find it, but if I did skip over it, feel free to point it out for me.

If Time is scum, perhaps he tried to boil the broth a bit. Show agreement towards Star's death, but not yet vote for Star in order to avoid any bandwagony vibes. When there didn't seem to be enough people agreeing that Star should die, Time backed off for an easier target. I feel like I'm stretching it a little bit, but it all gives me weird vibes. Maybe Time does have non-scum, legitimate reasons for why he no longer believed Star was the best bet. Maybe Star gave a good enough reason, but I don't think Time explained this at all.

Also, during Day 2, Time put Style on his suspect list as a "hunch". And then when Style is gaining votes, Time says "I'm not sure I understand the heat on Style right now". Seems a little odd, when you put Style on your suspect list, but then you don't understand why Style is getting heat. Maybe your hunch about Style changed, and he was no longer a suspect, but you never explained that (or I skimmed over that post where you did).

I can't right now put you in the town side, unfortunately. I tasted your soup, and it tastes slightly like scum broth. That's my take for now. I'm gonna go pass out.
 
T

Timeaisis

Member
Fair enough. My change of heart for GLT was mostly due to me rereading his single post over again and due to his absence.

I agree that I've been all over the place the post couple days, but it's not for nefarious reasons, there really hasn't been any great suspects is all and we didn't really get any strong info until today.
 
B

Burbeting

Banned
CzarTim said:
Actually, to expand on this point: You find them suspicious for a last minute vote on Style, but your original post was working on the assumption that GLT is scum. Does Swamped and Zipp voting for GLT change your opinion of any of them?
Click to expand...

Not really. Both of them voted for GLT at the start of the day, and so both of them have lots of time to thing about how to act during this day (for example, Swamped already took his vote away).
 
C

CrimsonFist

Member
There is one of Zipped's comments which bugs me:

Zippedpinhead said:
I'm not neutral, I am town.

You are acting even more anti-town today. I think you might be scum, especially since you were looking for me to confirm your role (which even if I would do that it wouldn't confirm your role, just that you did stuff)

So that's why I am voting for you, I think you are scum and this newbie "act" is just to try and give you outs when you post.
Click to expand...

Confirming Xam and Ultron's alignments is in no way anti town. He did backtrack on this a bit a few comments later, but I would actually like to see him answer: were you visited by Xam and/or Ultron at any point?
 
T

Timeaisis

Member
greatlord tiger (4)
burbeting 1807
swamped 1812 (1839)
xamtheking 1813
zippedpinhead 1816 (1957)
mattyg 1824
timeaisis 1889

greatlordtiger (0)
zippedpinhead 1815 (1816)

xamtheking (3)
makai 1818
fireblend 1842
zippedpinhead 1957

fluxwavez (0)
batsnacks 1835 (2069)
swamped 1839 (1936)

timeaisis (2)
fluxwavez 1869 (2068)
czartim 1870 (1901)
rats off to ya 1871
swamped 1936
batsnacks 2069 (2103)

lollipop dave (0)
czartim 1901 (1903)

starsketch (1)
czartim 1903

batsnacks (1)
septimus prime 2036

Looks like it's between GLT, Xam, and myself at the current moment.

I gotta say, though. Bats and Zipped roleclaims both still bug me. Bat's for the reasons we've been over, and Zipped because the claim seems so...weird. A watcher who can only watch himself? Claiming without any report on who targeted him? It's a super weird role claim, and the timing is weird, too.
 
Z

Zippedpinhead

Member
CrimsonFist said:
There is one of Zipped's comments which bugs me:



Confirming Xam and Ultron's alignments is in no way anti town. He did backtrack on this a bit a few comments later, but I would actually like to see him answer: were you visited by Xam and/or Ultron at any point?
Click to expand...

I never said whether I was visited by Xam or ultron because only three people responded to my asking if I should post that (and only one of the two in question).

If both ultron and Xam want me to post whether or not I was visited by them I will.

The anti-town sent image was against Xam constantly guessing at roles, he has been wrong about me but what if he posts something that is just too good for the werewolves not to try out and kill that person? All he seems to be doing is putting targets on other people's backs.
 
S

Swamped

Banned
^ And GLT may get replaced apparently. I don't think he has posted during this day phase, so I probably won't vote for him today.

Will give this thread another read over this evening, especially with regards to Zipped's claim. I agree with Crimson regarding giving us info about our outed sleepwalkers if Zipped has any.
 
Z

Zippedpinhead

Member
And it's both of you agree to the reveal or neither gets revealed.

This is for one reason only, I don't want people drawing conclusions based on one person being open about walking into my house and being revealed and the other not wanting to be (and/or never showing up in my house unexpectedly).
 
X

Xamtheking

Member
Oh god, not Bellatrix
(What is it with this game and replacements)

Zippedpinhead said:
And it's both of you agree to the reveal or neither gets revealed.

This is for one reason only, I don't want people drawing conclusions based on one person being open about walking into my house and being revealed and the other not wanting to be (and/or never showing up in my house unexpectedly).
Click to expand...
I agree to the reveal
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
Zippedpinhead said:
And it's both of you agree to the reveal or neither gets revealed.

This is for one reason only, I don't want people drawing conclusions based on one person being open about walking into my house and being revealed and the other not wanting to be (and/or never showing up in my house unexpectedly).
Click to expand...

So what was the point of your role claim again? Just so you wouldn't get accidentally shot by the possible Vig.? Now that your supposed ability is out in the open, you're not even going to help Town with more information?

Something's screwy if you're telling the truth.

Vote: Zippedpinhead
 
T

Timeaisis

Member
Zippedpinhead said:
And it's both of you agree to the reveal or neither gets revealed.

This is for one reason only, I don't want people drawing conclusions based on one person being open about walking into my house and being revealed and the other not wanting to be (and/or never showing up in my house unexpectedly).
Click to expand...

They've roleclaimed already. There's no reason to hide if they visited you.
 
B

batsnacks

Member
Zippedpinhead said:
And it's both of you agree to the reveal or neither gets revealed.

This is for one reason only, I don't want people drawing conclusions based on one person being open about walking into my house and being revealed and the other not wanting to be (and/or never showing up in my house unexpectedly).
Click to expand...

This reads as "I don't want the sleepwalkers voting me if I do something they dont approve of."
 
X

Xamtheking

Member
Zippedpinhead said:
And it's both of you agree to the reveal or neither gets revealed.

This is for one reason only, I don't want people drawing conclusions based on one person being open about walking into my house and being revealed and the other not wanting to be (and/or never showing up in my house unexpectedly).
Click to expand...
Also, actually, we don't even have a choice on where we go
Why would either of us care about what the other thinks
Vote: Zippedpinhead
and on that note
Avada Kedavra: Hyperactivity
 
C

CrimsonFist

Member
The sleepwalkers don't know if they visited you, and it's likely that nobody else does either, so there's no-one who can dispute what you say. If they did visit you then it supports their claims, if they didn't then it tells us nothing. I don't get this reluctance to share.
 
R

Rats Off To Ya

Banned
VOTE: zippedpinhead

That claim is weird, and his cageyness about the sleepwalkers doesn't make any sense. What's the harm in revealing that you were visited by them? All it does is support the claims they already made. It feels like you're trying to score Town points by acting concerned.

Also, welcome, Hyper.
 
U

ultron87

Member
Thinking on it more this thing from Zipped feels like some entrapment thing where we agree, he says he was visited by one of us, then when he flips wolf it throws doubt on the visitor's claim.
 
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