Again, not trying to undermine 3D animation, I think it has come a long way and can look outstanding, such as the two examples you gave.
Still, I'll always prefer hand drawn animation.
Western Animation |OT| Cartoon, Cartoon, Cartoon
- Thread starter TheGreatDirector
- Start date
Again, not trying to undermine 3D animation, I think it has come a long way and can look outstanding, such as the two examples you gave.
Still, I'll always prefer hand drawn animation.
In the case of Paperman (probably less so/not at all with Feast, which shows) you still need an artist to draw quite a bit.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I realise that? I'm referring to what's on the screen.
KenzinFive
Member
Subscribed in a heartbeat, I am all about this thread.
It's crazy that we've gotten some of the best Western animated series ever in the past few years. Over the Garden Wall is absolutely spectacular, and I would have killed to have had shows like Avatar: The Last Airbender, Gravity Falls, Adventure Time, and Steven Universe when I was a kid.
Not to mention that Disney Animation Studios is producing their best work in years. Sure, I prefer 2D, but CG animation has finally reached the capability of being as expressive and vibrant as 2D animated films. Tangled is gorgeous to look at, Zootopia looked great (but honestly surpassed by great writing) and the water animation I've seen in the Moana trailers is sublime.
It's crazy that we've gotten some of the best Western animated series ever in the past few years. Over the Garden Wall is absolutely spectacular, and I would have killed to have had shows like Avatar: The Last Airbender, Gravity Falls, Adventure Time, and Steven Universe when I was a kid.
Not to mention that Disney Animation Studios is producing their best work in years. Sure, I prefer 2D, but CG animation has finally reached the capability of being as expressive and vibrant as 2D animated films. Tangled is gorgeous to look at, Zootopia looked great (but honestly surpassed by great writing) and the water animation I've seen in the Moana trailers is sublime.
meltingparappa
Member
Oh there she is! That capricious little Hanazuki, and Blue Hilda as well!
I'm glad so many schools tour through Titmouse. There used to be a lot more animation studios on the east coast doing tv, but they've slowly dried up or consolidated through the years.
Titmouse NYC is a lot closer to how animation in LA works, and has projects probably closer to what most animation students see themselves working on in the future, instead of purely PBS/Nick-Jr style shows.
Hope it made a positive impression on you!
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Sorry, when I read still I thought you were implying 3D doesn't require a lot of 2D work.
Was actually the third visit haha. It seems like a 2d focused studio primarily, (I'm a pretty mean clean up artist and 2D animator but vastly prefer working in 3D) and I definitely wasn't interested in working on hotwheels so I haven't applied.
Unspeakable Evil
Member
I miss Motorcity and Tron Uprising and Titan
Well atleast Jack is back.
Edit: Maybe I miss good action shows in general
SigmasonicX
Member
For TV, just the new DuckTales series--now that Donald's part of the main cast, here's hoping for more comic adaptations. I'm sure some other show I'm not paying attention to will turn out good, though. EDIT: Oh, wait, Samurai Jack! That too.
Unspeakable Evil
Member
New Samurai Jack and new Justice League cartoon.
Edit: oh yeah new DuckTales!
Personally, I think studios are too afraid. Animation has a very high up front cost and if you can't market the characters via merchandise or w/e there's a good chance you're profits can be tiny. That said, I think there's hope because watching cartoons as you get older is more socially acceptable than in the past, so I think we'll get there one day. Also we can't forget that Adult swim has been on the forefront and their stuff is exceedingly popular.
On another note, here's a compilation of mostly western animated short films called ghost stories. It's a fun watch:
https://vimeo.com/73554156
I think there's another one coming out this year actually.
Man I would kill for them to at least release Motorcity and TRON on Bluray. I own both digitally, but still. Gravity Falls as well.
Also I guess add me in for the animators on GAF group? It's only a question because I animate for games (even though I'd like to be doing film and television more).
Also, someone mentioned Tangled being the closest Disney has come to replicating 2D style in 3D, and while I definitely can agree, personally I think Wreck-It Ralph does it even better. I know it was met with lukewarm reception on here, but I love that film.
Nik Ranieri'a pencil tests were great:
And there are so many great moments of character animation that feel very much in line with some of the classic animation of Micky and the Beanstalk and Disney shorts. The bake a kart sequence is a great showcase of this, as well as the King Candy character in general. I'm excited to see how the sequel turns out.
SigmasonicX
Member
I feel like there are only three general types of cartoons that can find success in the United States:
* Those aimed at children (a huge range of types, to be clear)
* Comedies aimed at adults
* Action-heavy shows aimed at adults
The US is seeing plenty of the first two, and the upcoming Samurai Jack continuation will be in the third.
The problem with expanding outside of that is the "why can't I just watch a live action show?" aspect. People point to anime like Black Lagoon and Monster as good examples of adult-aimed cartoons, but in the United States, those would just be made as live action shows and be much more likely to find popularity. Plus, the popularity of those shows is nothing compared to the DBZs and Narutos of the world, which would be considered part of the third category in the US despite their shonen origins. When a show uses heavy drama, people are much more willing to take it seriously when there's a live actor as opposed to an animated character. I don't think this is solely due to the history of animation being viewed as kid friendly, but I don't have any analysis of that. Venture Brothers and Rick & Morty are full of drama, but they're marketed as comedies, so general audiences are less turned off by them.
There's also the argument that animation isn't used to its full potential in talkie drama and should be used to present more abstract imagery. But I'll be blunt, general audiences don't like that, especially in something not kid friendly. The only way to find success with it, it seems, is to sneak bits of it into family friendly shows or market it as a stoner comedy, like a lot of Adult Swim's cartoons.
I think a lot of shows have found a way to work under these restrictions, inserting philosophy and ideas that even adult shows would avoid into Adventure Time and Steven Universe. If more shows follow their cue, I think there could be enough of a shift for more serious adult cartoons to appear.
MrSaturn99
Member
I really need to catch up with the past half-decade of CN. I've watched some Adventure Time and that's it.
Been rewatching the first three seasons of SpongeBob and I still think those are some of the greatest comedy ever produced by Western animation. (Honest question: what was the first bad episode of the series? Much as I love Season 3's highs, Party Pooper Pants was when things gradually got stinky)
Been rewatching the first three seasons of SpongeBob and I still think those are some of the greatest comedy ever produced by Western animation. (Honest question: what was the first bad episode of the series? Much as I love Season 3's highs, Party Pooper Pants was when things gradually got stinky)
petran79
Banned
Can we also include animation from Russia and Eastern European countries? Just like Japan, they had their own unique style, history, and production values. They prefered the short film format and many were rather adult oriented,like Zagreb Film.
I remember watching Feherlofia in the 80s, a masterpiece from Hungary. Had not seen anything similar before or after.
Also the movie Vuk the little fox, from the same country was one of the best childrens movies.
Choppasmith
Member
I'm going to enjoy this thread. Will be nice to talk about animated shows that don't necessarily warrant its own thread.
Somehow, I feel like shows like Milo Murphy's Law will be talked about more in this thread than it's own OT.
Somehow, I feel like shows like Milo Murphy's Law will be talked about more in this thread than it's own OT.
Neither of these 2 blogs are updated anymore, but they're both worth checking out:
http://penciltests.tumblr.com/
http://www.penciltestdepot.com
I absolutely adore seeing animation in its purest form.
http://penciltests.tumblr.com/
http://www.penciltestdepot.com
I absolutely adore seeing animation in its purest form.
No need to apologise! I probably wasn't articulate enough with my post anyway.
Lightning_Roller
Banned
I have a few questions, if I may ask them:
1. Do you enjoy animating? (Silly question I know.
)2. What is your favorite part about animating?
3. What was your favorite project to work on?
4. If you could give one piece of advice to someone that would love to enter the world of animation, what would it be?
TheGreatDirector
Banned
Absolutely.
Speedydonut
Member
Just started watching Wakfu with the French language option on Netflix, but the subtitles keep getting out of sync with the dialogue. Is the English dub good? I really want to watch it in French since its rare to get the chance to, but the subtitle situation is really starting to frustrate me.
Good show, otherwise. I'm trying to get my friends into it.
Good show, otherwise. I'm trying to get my friends into it.
meltingparappa
Member
Ooh, thanks for taking me up on the offer! These make me feel important.
- 1. Do you enjoy animating? (Silly question I know.
)Short answer: it really is a dream job.
Long answer: Some people grind their teeth to dust in their dreams, but still always wake up happy when it's done.
- 2. What is your favorite part about animating?
Thrill #1 involves despite having years of experience, never being 100% sure if a scene will end up looking ok. But then there's always a point when I play it back and these weird drawings suddenly look living and breathing, and and have the capacity to tell a tiny piece of a bigger story.
Thrill #2 comes when someone else reacts to something you've done. It's all just digital chicken scratch and the insane hubris to believe that a bunch of converging perspective lines can sufficiently mimic what your eye sees in the natural world. To have this labor intensive illusory art elicit the faintest emotion in someone is a ludicrous, beautiful miracle.
- 3. What was your favorite project to work on?
'Niko and the Sword of Light' is in a lot of ways the best show I've worked on, but we're still in the midst of working on it, so maybe that doesn't count.
The 2D TMNT "Half Shell Heroes" special that Titmouse did was pretty cute, fun to do, and somehow went really smoothly, which is really suspiciously rare. I hope we didn't collectively forget to animate Donatello or something.
- 4. If you could give one piece of advice to someone that would love to enter the world of animation, what would it be?
If I could only say one thing, it might sound trite, but LITERALLY the single biggest advantage for someone needing that foot in the door is to simply be in a city that has an animation studio.
Offsite freelancers exist at most places of course, but is a much more viable option for people with experience and a strong reel. For both internships and general employment, having the ability to go into a studio on relatively short notice and learn while surrounded by peers and a lead/director makes all the difference than seeing a demo reel and realizing that someone lives several states away and has nothing to indicate they can learn on their own as they go.
And then less advice but just an anecdote there are good arguments to art school vs not going to art school, but the first job I had after graduating was through connections I had from school, and every job I've had subsequently had at least one alumni from my school or even my graduating class. The world of animation is really, really small.
Im interested in how other GAF animators would answer.
SixMachine
Member
It is also sad that animation seems professionally snubbed within the west. Like if you read the comments of the voters of the Oscar, who are all Academy professionals, a lot of them don't really bother watching animation or give really bad excuses, such as "It's Pixar" it must be good, referring to Song of the Sea and Princess Kaguya as "Chinese-shit" even though one is Irish and the other is Japanese. And even though animation covers many genres and artstyles they are often grouped together no matter if it is 2d or 3d. The Academy favor Hollywood style animation films, like Pixar for example. The last time any hand drawn animation won anything was Spirited Away in 2002.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Choppasmith
Member
I for one hate the stigma that Western animation can only be kids stuff or silly adult comedies. Tron Uprising could have easily fit on ABC primetime, but that stigma had it dumped on Disney XD where it was left to rot.
Great post and I definitely think you're right on the mark with your observations. For the last point I also agree and I feel like shows like Steven universe, adventure time, etc. will act as a bridge for more interesting animated television. At least thats my hope.
Ive actually had a few films perform in festivals, so I'm no stranger, but I'm always so caught up in work that I can never attend them. It's something I'm trying to change going into next year though. While it's nice to see more adult oriented films in festivals, I'd really like to see more of it on tv- if only for people to realize that animation can be more than what it is. I feel like it's time the medium gets elevated into a status beyond "good venue for merchandise". I mean, not to knock live action film makers, but far, far more work goes into creating an animated film, and I think that's something that deserves some kind of respect or acknowledgement.
Lightning_Roller
Banned
Ooh, thanks for taking me up on the offer! These make me feel important.
- 1. Do you enjoy animating? (Silly question I know.
Short answer: it really is a dream job.
Long answer: Some people grind their teeth to dust in their dreams, but still always wake up happy when it's done.
- 2. What is your favorite part about animating?
Thrill #1 involves despite having years of experience, never being 100% sure if a scene will end up looking ok. But then there's always a point when I play it back and these weird drawings suddenly look living and breathing, and and have the capacity to tell a tiny piece of a bigger story.
Thrill #2 comes when someone else reacts to something you've done. It's all just digital chicken scratch and the insane hubris to believe that a bunch of converging perspective lines can sufficiently mimic what your eye sees in the natural world. To have this labor intensive illusory art elicit the faintest emotion in someone is a ludicrous, beautiful miracle.
- 3. What was your favorite project to work on?
'Niko and the Sword of Light' is in a lot of ways the best show I've worked on, but we're still in the midst of working on it, so maybe that doesn't count.
The 2D TMNT "Half Shell Heroes" special that Titmouse did was pretty cute, fun to do, and somehow went really smoothly, which is really suspiciously rare. I hope we didn't collectively forget to animate Donatello or something.
- 4. If you could give one piece of advice to someone that would love to enter the world of animation, what would it be?
If I could only say one thing, it might sound trite, but LITERALLY the single biggest advantage for someone needing that foot in the door is to simply be in a city that has an animation studio.
Offsite freelancers exist at most places of course, but is a much more viable option for people with experience and a strong reel. For both internships and general employment, having the ability to go into a studio on relatively short notice and learn while surrounded by peers and a lead/director makes all the difference than seeing a demo reel and realizing that someone lives several states away and has nothing to indicate they can learn on their own as they go.
And then less advice but just an anecdote there are good arguments to art school vs not going to art school, but the first job I had after graduating was through connections I had from school, and every job I've had subsequently had at least one alumni from my school or even my graduating class. The world of animation is really, really small.
Im interested in how other GAF animators would answer.
Thank you for answering my questions, i really appreciate it. And good answers too!
Wait, is that Persepolis? There was an animated version?
Asking the real questions here.
It's not beyond hope, right?
Baron von Loathsome
Member
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
The lowest point in animation.
You know what? Now that we have a dedicated OT, I should post reviews of shitty ones I watch out of the blue. Not for a while though, because we need a more positive start.
Lightning_Roller
Banned
I want to give some love to web animations for a minute! One mention is a completed work, another in progress as well as a few short animations here and there.
First off, the completed work: T.O.M.E
Terrain of Magical Expertise is an animated series on YouTube created by Christopher "Kirbopher" Niosi. This series takes place in a online game called Terrain of magical expertise where players can create the character they want and chat, fight or just have fun. But things get complicated when a virus appears and from there things become interesting. The series is done and completed so if you want to watch it, it's there.
Link to first episode: https://youtu.be/CMi4tQjHxvw
The series in progress: Tales of Zale
This series by Hikarian animations is about the adventures of a fox named Zale and his friend Elva, a barn owl. They explore a world where humans are gone and meet all manner of animals. There are two episodes so far, as well as a manner of shorts but it's pretty good. The artstyle is nice and the doing a post apocalypse story from an animal point of view is interesting.
Link to first episode: https://youtu.be/bVpa7WRm3iY
And now for some random animations
First off, the Blackwater Gospel:
https://youtu.be/vVkDrIacHJM
Yes yes, it's 3D, but honestly the sketchy 2D looks makes it stand out in my opinion. And the effects and the visuals something to behold. Also it's a bit gorey around the end, so fair warning to you guys.
Second, an animation that shows that most terrifying monsters can be inside of us all, Behind Closed Doors: https://youtu.be/H9InaUJm0A8
The storybook-esque artstyle is something I enjoy about this short and it does get pretty scary at times too, so be warned.
And now for some pallet cleansers!! :3
How about something overwatch related to start things off:
https://youtu.be/o5W0n-5UA8w
And let's add some water and heat as well:
https://youtu.be/OLZJ-E2CWuw
If anyone have any web animations that they like, then let's talk about them.
First off, the completed work: T.O.M.E
Terrain of Magical Expertise is an animated series on YouTube created by Christopher "Kirbopher" Niosi. This series takes place in a online game called Terrain of magical expertise where players can create the character they want and chat, fight or just have fun. But things get complicated when a virus appears and from there things become interesting. The series is done and completed so if you want to watch it, it's there.
Link to first episode: https://youtu.be/CMi4tQjHxvw
The series in progress: Tales of Zale
This series by Hikarian animations is about the adventures of a fox named Zale and his friend Elva, a barn owl. They explore a world where humans are gone and meet all manner of animals. There are two episodes so far, as well as a manner of shorts but it's pretty good. The artstyle is nice and the doing a post apocalypse story from an animal point of view is interesting.
Link to first episode: https://youtu.be/bVpa7WRm3iY
And now for some random animations
First off, the Blackwater Gospel:
https://youtu.be/vVkDrIacHJM
Yes yes, it's 3D, but honestly the sketchy 2D looks makes it stand out in my opinion. And the effects and the visuals something to behold. Also it's a bit gorey around the end, so fair warning to you guys.
Second, an animation that shows that most terrifying monsters can be inside of us all, Behind Closed Doors: https://youtu.be/H9InaUJm0A8
The storybook-esque artstyle is something I enjoy about this short and it does get pretty scary at times too, so be warned.
And now for some pallet cleansers!! :3
How about something overwatch related to start things off:
https://youtu.be/o5W0n-5UA8w
And let's add some water and heat as well:
https://youtu.be/OLZJ-E2CWuw
If anyone have any web animations that they like, then let's talk about them.
Er... seems like you can just take Evil's answer. Pretty much the same. Maybe the new Spider-man toon, but need to see more.
Another one? Hopefully they can aim a little higher than the cameo-fest that was Ultimate Spider-Man.
Didn't expect this thread to ever happen, but I'm glad it has. Subbing to this
Huh, I just rewatched recently
I only watched a black and white version of this cartoon as a kid. It was cool seeing it in color.
Justice League Action looks pretty good
The new Samurai Jack season sounds interesting but I've never watched the original show before. I'll probably have to catch up on that.
I am looking forward to the next Rick and Morty and Venture Bros seasons, but those are still a ways away. I've actually been watching a lot less since GF ended. It doesn't help that Regular Show is ending soon too.
Huh, I just rewatched recently
I only watched a black and white version of this cartoon as a kid. It was cool seeing it in color.
Justice League Action looks pretty good
The new Samurai Jack season sounds interesting but I've never watched the original show before. I'll probably have to catch up on that.
I am looking forward to the next Rick and Morty and Venture Bros seasons, but those are still a ways away. I've actually been watching a lot less since GF ended. It doesn't help that Regular Show is ending soon too.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Am looking for an old animated movie. The only think I remember is that there was an old lady (or maybe it's an old dude) who stuffed a cat (or a dog, don't remember) in a bag and, from a bridge, throw it in the water. I remember the animal escaped, but that's all.
Someone know about this?
Someone know about this?
SigmasonicX
Member
I'm reminded of The Aristocats, where the butler tosses the cats away in a bag, but I think a Disney movie would be fairly easy to recognize.
TheGreatDirector
Banned
That was sweet.
Now I finally know where this gif is from!
Speedydonut
Member
I guess this is the best place to give more exposure to an underrated raunchy french comedy movie called Lascars
Azure Dream
Member
Oh, man. Feast hit me dead on. My buddy was having some relationship issues with his girlfriend, and I was pretty happy about it because he was around more. I realized I was the dog. I don't know if that's what they were going for, but damn did it work.
Feast can really sock you in the gut.
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