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[Burt]

She can't finish her "maze loop" at the time because the church is buried, so she really has nowhere to go to.

What I want to know is why she deviated from her normal "Park loop" and encounters William in the first place. You're meant to think it's because Ford's edit of Teddy's backstory--Teddy's off hunting Wyatt so he doesn't kill the bandits who attacked the homestead--but that's illusory as it's actually happening much later.

My first guess would be more Ford meddling, of course, but I wonder if we'll see any clarification of this next season.

I think the time she broke her loop was actually when Teddy was off with those guys in the out-of-town whorehouse, which is why he wasn't there. IIRC, I think we were presented with Arnold saying "Dolores, I think I've made a mistake" right before that, because one of my sticking points for William not being the MiB was that the chain of "Bernard" -> Dolores's escape - > Running into William crossed the timelines. Bernarnold fixed that, though.

It might've been Ford deliberately enacting some part of his plan ~5 years after Arnold died (not that there's any way he could've predicted the far-ranging effects of those actions, even in a show that strains credulity as much as this one), but I think it was more likely to have been a memory breach/glitch that I think we might've seen a few other times, most notably with Maeve a year before "current time" and the reveries getting patched in.

 

[lamaroo]

Sean Bean for Old Man Logan

 

[duckroll]

Didn't he recently say he'd like to play Rust again?

Detective World.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Didn't he recently say he'd like to play Rust again?

O RLY?

 

[Solo]

Could you imagine Rust's psycho babble going head to head with MiB?

 

[GuitarAtomik]

How do you come up with this assumption?

There's a lot of allusions to it. Elsie mentions being on rotation. Ford mentions there were plenty of people in Theresa's role before her. Elsie mentions Bernard's been there forever. They don't outright say it, but it's totally plausible especially given how much power Ford has/had.

Also great points:

Well and mostly people don't give THAT much of a shit about other people.

Those close to Bernard don't seem to have known him for his entire 10 year history at Westworld (Elise and Stubbs are too young, his fuck buddy is clearly stated to have been at Westworld for only a few years) and everyone else is just his underlings coming and going without a name to a face.

If some nameless tech had worked under Bernard for all 10 years it's unlikely he'd have noticed him "not aging" cause he clearly wasn't a part of Bernard's life.

Again, even if you were there for 10 years and working with Bernard closely that whole time, I doubt you'd really question it for someone at Bernard's age. Did you really notice how much Obama had aged over time until you actually looked back at an old picture? Now imagine if he dyed his hair. The fact is people aren't usually that perceptive. Hell, actually being in constant contact with him day in and day out, you'd probably be even less likely to notice any gradual ageing (or non-ageing).

But we see Dolores and other hosts before the park even officially opened (when they were practicing dancing at the small village). They all move very naturally, and this is the very first generation of hosts.

I assumed he was either an even older model, or it's just the fact that he was never upgraded and, most importantly, not well maintained (if at all).

 

[torre_avenue]

I regret watching this show so much.

Not because it's bad, but because now I have to wait for 2 years to see it again.

Damn you Jonah and Lisa.

Please get Chris as a director for next time.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Please get Chris as a director for next time.

I'd think he'd be fed up with directing A.I. revolt stories after Pixels.

 

[torre_avenue]

I'd think he'd be fed up with directing A.I. revolt stories after Pixels.

I was obviously talking about Chris Carter.

 

[enemy2k]

Starting the season finale now, I've loved this show so far.

 

[BlastProcessing]

The mind fuckery in this show is truly amazing.

I was curious as to why that engineer refers to the room with Samurai's as "it's complicated". Also, how are they going to start the seccond season given the ending is essentially massacre of (presumably) all humans or at least all those who were at the gala. What's the impetus behind Dolores embracing the memories of Wyatt?

She told Teddy that she realized that she is her own jailer. The Disney Princess personality that she was programmed with was the main thing holding her down.

Ford summed it up when he asked her (paraphrased) Do you understand who you have to become in order to ever leave this place?

 

[RustyNails]

Ok show. Excellent cast and acting. I dont know what I was expecting but I didn't find it a very satisfying show. 6/10.

 

[Totakeke]

This show was totally off my radar until after it ended and I'm totally glad for it. Internet would have definitely ruined my enjoyment of the show. I binged all the episodes in three days, and even checking the thread three episodes in was a mistake. If The Prestige was a TV show it would have been ruined as well.

This is definitely an amazing show with an incredible finale and score. Can't recall any other shows that I've watched with a score this good. I get teary eyed even when I was rewatching the final episode. From a narrative/drama viewpoint I may prefer other shows, but in terms of delivering on the twists and execution of high note scenes I don't think any other shows tops this. So many moments where I go wide eyed and my mouth just goes agape.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Finally finished the season. Spectacular. I realized at many points that I was feeling uncomfortable with the violence occurring to humans, when I barely flinched through most of the season at the violence that was inflicted to the hosts. Quite the double standard. I think it didn't bother me as much with the hosts because they could be returned to life, even if they had to sometimes remember their pain and trauma.

I'll miss Anthony Hopkins on the show. Damn, fantastic actor.

I'm saddened that Dolores chose to become violent, but the way the presentation was framed, we're not really supposed to feel much sympathy for these people, even if we feel empathy for the fact that they're human. It's going to be quite interesting how Maeve, who seemed to be poised to be the violent revolutionary turns out to be the one who feels empathy towards humans, as she did with Felix, which ultimately gave her consciousness. Meanwhile Dolores was holding to the hope of meeting William again, and losing this hope was what gave her consciousness.

I think ultimately, or I hope at least, that the show will go to try to prove Ford wrong. It's clear now that the hosts can gain consciousness in different ways. Not necessarily through grief by inflicting them pain, but with empathy, identifying similarities between them and humans who are not there to kill or abuse them. I think that'll be Dolores big realization, that all can co-exist together.

But we'll see. Lisa Joy and Jonathan Nolan are great writers, and I'm glad that they have time to think this through.Also, holy crap, I didn't know they were married. Awesome couple.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

Could you imagine Rust's psycho babble going head to head with MiB?

Bwahahahahahaha

 

[Faddy]

She can't finish her "maze loop" at the time because the church is buried, so she really has nowhere to go to.

What I want to know is why she deviated from her normal "Park loop" and encounters William in the first place. You're meant to think it's because Ford's edit of Teddy's backstory--Teddy's off hunting Wyatt so he doesn't kill the bandits who attacked the homestead--but that's illusory as it's actually happening much later.

My first guess would be more Ford meddling, of course, but I wonder if we'll see any clarification of this next season.

I don't think completing the maze necessarily relies on the church. Maeve's first awakening was about the suffering of her daughter.

The church graveyard is a neat test because how could an android recognise the significance of itself being dead if it cannot understand the concept of itself being alive. But that is only a step because Dolores wasn't truly conscious until she was forced to contemplate the suffering she had endured.

She went off her loop in William's time because she was triggered by the gun I think and from there she remembered the things Arnold had said to her. Think of it this way, suffering and pain can cause the hosts to remember things that are dormant in their memory while the reveries are an intentional code to allow the hosts access to those memories.

So Ford's plan is that when he is ready to give all the hosts conciousness with the reveries update they will have built up enough experience to know how to proceed. However there are still sporadic incidences of hosts moving towards awakening through trauma suffered in the park which Ford has to suppress because he has deemed the hosts were not ready to survive.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

I'll miss Anthony Hopkins on the show. Damn, fantastic actor.

I'm saddened that Dolores chose to become violent, but the way the presentation was framed, we're not really supposed to feel much sympathy for these people, even if we feel empathy for the fact that they're human. It's going to be quite interesting how Maeve, who seemed to be poised to be the violent revolutionary turns out to be the one who feels empathy towards humans, as she did with Felix, which ultimately gave her consciousness. Meanwhile Dolores was holding to the hope of meeting William again, and losing this hope was what gave her consciousness.

i actually kind of felt sorry for that butcher whose finger got bit off by armistice and then was made to eat his own severed digit

i was like. what did this guy do to deserve this. :x

 

[TheExhaustedWalrus]

Just finished the show. What a mind blower.

Bring on

Spoiler

Samurai World.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

I'll miss Anthony Hopkins on the show. Damn, fantastic actor.

I'm saddened that Dolores chose to become violent, but the way the presentation was framed, we're not really supposed to feel much sympathy for these people, even if we feel empathy for the fact that they're human. It's going to be quite interesting how Maeve, who seemed to be poised to be the violent revolutionary turns out to be the one who feels empathy towards humans, as she did with Felix, which ultimately gave her consciousness. Meanwhile Dolores was holding to the hope of meeting William again, and losing this hope was what gave her consciousness.
QUOTE]

i actually kind of felt sorry for that butcher whose finger got bit off by armistice and then was made to eat his own severed digit

i was like. what did this guy do to deserve this. :x

He had the poor sense to stick his finger in my waifu's mouth.

 

[~Kinggi~]

I was obviously talking about Chris Carter.

hueh hueh hueh, oh u a silly fucker arent u. Chris Carter, my homeboy,

Spoiler

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

i actually kind of felt sorry for that butcher whose finger got bit off by armistice and then was made to eat his own severed digit

i was like. what did this guy do to deserve this. :x

Yeah that was fucked up. But I guess they could just 3D print a new finger for him.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

The soundtrack to this show is really good.

Yeah that was fucked up. But I guess they could just 3D print a new finger for him.

Assuming he didn't die.

 

[FStop7]

Didn't he recently say he'd like to play Rust again?

Maybe he changed his mind, but I know I read an interview not long after True Detective aired when he said that he didn't want to do that kind of work again.

 

[FlowersisBritish]

So i binged the show. It was pretty fantastic. I could gush about a lot of things so instead I want to rag on it with a weird complaint. I feel like this is not a good binging show for a lot of reasons and the big one is probably just the quality of that first episode. It's amazing, one of my favorite first episodes in a long time, and the episodes after it are all good (actually, probably equal the level) but never surpasses it by a huge margin. The show gets better, but not by that much.

But it passes my usual test of a good show for me and had a lot of terrific dumb speeches from all the actors. Kind of apprehensive for season 2 because no Hopkins, but we'll see.

 

[Joni]

What I hated about the Samurai World reveal is that they showed its facilities right next to Westworld's mesa compound. It's impossible for it to be that close. We know that Westworld is about 15km wide and there's nothing but desert and mountains around the mesa.

The building has 80 floors, how much floors would one park take? They could stack parks, the train could be a lot faster away and thus transport people a lot quicker, ...

 

[Ferrio]

So i binged the show. It was pretty fantastic. I could gush about a lot of things so instead I want to rag on it with a weird complaint. I feel like this is not a good binging show for a lot of reasons and the big one is probably just the quality of that first episode. It's amazing, one of my favorite first episodes in a long time, and the episodes after it are all good (actually, probably equal the level) but never surpasses it by a huge margin. The show gets better, but not by that much.

But it passes my usual test of a good show for me and had a lot of terrific dumb speeches from all the actors. Kind of apprehensive for season 2 because no Hopkins, but we'll see.

Even watching it to week to week the first episode is hard to top. The "Paint it Black" sequence is excellent.

 

[FlowersisBritish]

What I hated about the Samurai World reveal is that they showed its facilities right next to Westworld's mesa compound. It's impossible for it to be that close. We know that Westworld is about 15km wide and there's nothing but desert and mountains around the mesa.

So I actually just presumed Samurai World was a thing they were testing and preparing for. It wasn't an actual "thing" yet. When Maeve asked the guy "what is this?" he said, "It's complicated" Saying, "we have a samurai world" is not complicated. Saying "We're working on a bunch of new parks and this is a samurai world were testing a bit but having a lot of trouble because the host don't hold back enough and end up cutting our dummies in half" is kind of complicated. Plus, it makes a lot more sense they'd be testing it at the Westworld facility since that's where all the equipment is.

 

[duckroll]

So I actually just presumed Samurai World was a thing they were testing and preparing for. It wasn't an actual "thing" yet. When Maeve asked the guy "what is this?" he said, "It's complicated" Saying, "we have a samurai world" is not complicated. Saying "We're working on a bunch of new parks and this is a samurai world were testing a bit but having a lot of trouble because the host don't hold back enough and end up cutting our dummies in half" is kind of complicated. Plus, it makes a lot more sense they'd be testing it at the Westworld facility since that's where all the equipment is.

"We're trying to break into the Asian audience after a Chinese company acquired 40% of Delos, and this is one of several focus tested concepts which got the green light for internal testing."

 

[Sickboy007]

Bring it on

 

[Discotheque]

yeah that's exactly who I was gonna recommend coming into this thread lol. he would be incredible.

 

[natjjohn]

I presume Ed Harris is dead too?

No Hopkins and Ed is a loss for the show. Still optimistic.

 

[Surface of Me]

What I hated about the Samurai World reveal is that they showed its facilities right next to Westworld's mesa compound. It's impossible for it to be that close. We know that Westworld is about 15km wide and there's nothing but desert and mountains around the mesa.

Two words: Shrink Ray.

 

[Einchy]

I presume Ed Harris is dead too?

No Hopkins and Ed is a loss for the show. Still optimistic.

Nah, he's still alive and confirmed to be coming back in Season 2.

 

[BocoDragon]

I presume Ed Harris is dead too?

No Hopkins and Ed is a loss for the show. Still optimistic.

If a show shoots a character in the arm, I feel that's cinematic symbolism for "he's alive".

I think it would be a shame to set up the MIB's perfect Westworld (where the hosts can fight back), and not have him deal with it.

I also think you need reflection from him and his character, now that we know who he his.

Whether he stays through the series (as a Hollywood actor), I don't know. I could see him being in the season premiere of Season 2 and nothing else.

 

[Blackhead]

I think the time she broke her loop was actually when Teddy was off with those guys in the out-of-town whorehouse, which is why he wasn't there. IIRC, I think we were presented with Arnold saying "Dolores, I think I've made a mistake" right before that, because one of my sticking points for William not being the MiB was that the chain of "Bernard" -> Dolores's escape - > Running into William crossed the timelines. Bernarnold fixed that, though.

It might've been Ford deliberately enacting some part of his plan ~5 years after Arnold died (not that there's any way he could've predicted the far-ranging effects of those actions, even in a show that strains credulity as much as this one), but I think it was more likely to have been a memory breach/glitch that I think we might've seen a few other times, most notably with Maeve a year before "current time" and the reveries getting patched in.

Have the showrunners presented, or has any viewer been able to compile, a proper timeline for all the scenes in the show?

 

[Solo]

Matthew McConaughey said he wouldn't do TV again because of True Detective's grueling schedule, but he would fit into Westworld's melancholy future so well.

O RLY?

Maybe he changed his mind, but I know I read an interview not long after True Detective aired when he said that he didn't want to do that kind of work again.

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/06/matthew-mcconaughey-true-detective-season-3

If you’ve missed the haunted musings of a certain handlebar-mustachioed homicide detective on HBO, you are not alone. On Wednesday, Matthew McConaughey confessed that he too misses his True Detective character and flat-circle prognosticator—so much so that he would consider reprising the role of ol’ Rust.

“I miss Rust Cohle, man,” McConaughey admitted on DirecTV’s Rich Eisen Show. “I miss watching him on Sunday nights.”

“It would have to be the right context, the right way,” McConaughey told Eisen. “That thing—when I read [the original script] I knew in 20 minutes if I can play this guy, Rustin Cohle, I’m in.”

I mean, TD is dead so it'll never happen, but cool nonetheless.

And I too support Viggo in S2. He'd fit perfectly.

 

[AuthenticM]

I expect Ed Harris to show up for the first five minutes of the next episode, only to be killed. lol

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I expect Ed Harris to show up for the first five minutes of the next episode, only to be killed. lol

Nope.

 

[Solo]

Harris will die, but in the finale. We'll get a whole season of greatness from him.

 

[Sickboy007]

I suspect Ogg will be a great sub-boss.

 

[pestul]

It's amazing how unbalanced the acting performances are on this show. You've got a great core in the park, a few in the control hub, and the rest are just terrible. "Fuck you.. fuck this.. what the fuck. You're a fuckwit." - with terrible delivery. And I still love it.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Harris will die, but in the finale. We'll get a whole season of greatness from him.

Yep, living out his dream, being able to show his grit. I just hope they do it justice. His final expression shows hes on point.

 

[Solo]

It's amazing how unbalanced the acting performances are on this show. You've got a great core in the park, a few in the control hub, and the rest are just terrible. "Fuck you.. fuck this.. what the fuck. You're a fuckwit." - with terrible delivery. And I still love it.

The only subpar acting I can think of is Sylvester's actor (just bad in every regard) and Sizemore's actor (overacting to the max). That's it.

Beyond that? You've got mostly amazing work, with top tier performances from Hopkins, Wright, Wood, Harris and Newton, and good work from pretty much everyone else. Special shut out to Clifton Collins for his memorable guest turn as Lawrence/Lazo. Everyone else is at least good.

 

[pestul]

The only subpar acting I can think of is Sylvester's actor (just bad in every regard) and Sizemore's actor (overacting to the max). That's it.

Beyond that? You've got mostly amazing work, with top tier performances from Hopkins, Wright, Wood, Harris and Newton, and good work from pretty much everyone else. Special shut out to Clifton Collins for his memorable guest turn as Lawrence/Lazo. Everyone else is at least good.

Yeah, it was only really a few when you look at it. The rest of the performances are incredible. In the subpar segments it just felt like I was watching a different show.

 

[Makai]

One of the hosts is going to defect to defend the humans. Probably Bernard.

 

[Makai]

Sylvester is the most believable character in the show, I dunno what you guys are talking about.

 

[marrec]

One of the hosts is going to defect to defend the humans. Probably Bernard.

I think a few factions will spring up tbh, Bernard, Papa Abernathy, and Doloryatt.

 

[Solo]

One of the hosts is going to defect to defend the humans. Probably Bernard.

Teddy. He had a clear look of disgust when Dolores was massacring everyone.

 

[Enco]

I don't understand why Felix didn't deactivate Maeve.

She's literally just a robot.

I find it hard to sympathise with a machine.

 

[-griffy-]

I don't understand why Felix didn't deactivate Maeve.

She's literally just a robot.

I find it hard to sympathise with a machine.

If that's the case it sounds like this isn't the show for you then.