captjohnboyd
Member
Yeah that was my first thought as well. Just for "show" but then I went back and watched it again paying special attention and it's pretty clear
he's scared. Like really scared
Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
- Start date
Yeah that was my first thought as well. Just for "show" but then I went back and watched it again paying special attention and it's pretty clear
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
YOO just saw this episode.. Everyone is suspecting William is the Man in Black, but IMO it's his brother in law that ends up being there. The 'event' that happened 30 years ago is a human being getting killed, aka William. Nice irony since he doesn't give a shit about the games in the flashback yet something that happens 30 years ago makes him obsessed with it during the current timeline.
i was literally about to post this lol
my reach for that was williams line about his friend being nice and turning evil when he got in the park, and the man in black foundation being revealed.
just in case its true, so i can feel smart
Gozer the Gozerian
Member
I'm thinking William got Delores pregnant and she had a half robot baby who grow up to be Ed Harris just sayin thats what I think
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Sorry fam, I'm the leader in this theory. And if someone wrote this theory before, it doesn't count.
Or it's other guests that are fucking with him?
Yeah, I saw this theory elsewhere and was wondering if anyone else had picked up on it.
damn, the signs are all there
actually yeah, this would make a ton of sense
captjohnboyd
Member
Nah. They've made it pretty clear on the show that hosts will step in and protect a human if they're threatened with real violence. It's shown in the exact same preview
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Okay the chronology here is confusing. And no, I'm not talking about William, although I still have my doubts there
To complete the next step towards the maze MiB has to find Wyatt, but Wyatt was just a figment of lore up until Ford made him real very recently. So...the "maze" was unreachable?
To complete the next step towards the maze MiB has to find Wyatt, but Wyatt was just a figment of lore up until Ford made him real very recently. So...the "maze" was unreachable?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I have this exact question. It was my one remaining possible piece of evidence that William is at a different time, but I like the theory that William and Asshat are the board representatives.
What if there aren't any hosts nearby? I would think they would have to visually see it happen to know something is up, or it might be guests have him locked in some room the hosts can't get to.
And honestly mgmt doesn't really seem to be monitoring anything very closely except for bigger narrative events.
It's pretty clear to me that Dolores is being set up as MiB's adversary. Bernard has set her off in search of the maze, and she may or may not be in possession of an actual gun that can kill humans.
Veritigo_X
Member
They seem to monitor guests pretty closely. They talked about a family moving into Sweetwater during the shootout and they stopped it early. William's friend also alludes to the park monitoring guests very closely.
And yet they don't even know if a guest is with Delores?
They were monitoring the guests moving towards Sweetwater right during the big shootout, that makes sense.
Do you mean the comment about sending Delores to him because he had a convo with her? That isn't what happened, so it doesn't seem like they were necessarily watching william.
Doesn't really seem like they have a live video feed running 24/7 with someone watching every single guest, or we have nothing to indicate that.
captjohnboyd
Member
I think you're reading too much into it. I'm fairly certain that management is a deus ex machina and that in the case of the preview it isn't other guests but in fact hosts
I... think you solved the mystery. It was right in front of us all this time!
I think this is the where people misunderstand how things seem to work in Westworld. I don't think Wyatt is something Ford just made up. What Ford made up with regards to Wyatt is linking him and Teddy. He was giving Teddy a backstory as a survivor who encountered Wyatt in the past and knows of him, so now it is possible for Teddy, an early game Guide NPC in the starting town, to lead people to Wyatt directly because of his new plotline. I think that other than that and some other details, Wyatt himself as a character already exists, just like Teddy as a character existed.
Sometimes narratives involve new characters created from new or repurposed hosts. But I think it is more often that they simply add new stuff to existing hosts and link up stuff to make more complicated plots. There is no reason to believe that Wyatt never existed until now. It's just that up until now he was probably some far off late game content that only more adventurous visitors would run into.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Hopkins is killing it so hard. I'm in some sort of trance during all of his scenes.
Jinfash
needs 2 extra inches
So we're all in agreement that Bernard is a host built by Ford using Arnold as a template in a twisted attempt to save him which is why he keeps steering him away from the same path Arnold took but he'll soon find himself in the middle of this maze (be it physical or metaphysical) with MiB on his left and Ford on his right and he'll say some things about humanity and how the hosts are more humane than humans themselves and so on and so forth... right?
Good.
Good.
I asked these question on the discoverwestworld site:
You: Can i find god in the park?
AEDEN:
Like people, hosts have backstories that provide them with various relationships to religion.
AEDEN:
However, a while back, it was said that all hosts were initially created with an ability to actually hear the voice of their gods. But the founders lost faith in that method and our minds have grown quieter since.
You: Who is the MIB?
AEDEN
Just between you and me, though, the Man in Black is something of a VIP. What else would you like to know about the park?
YOU
What is the maze?
AEDEN
The maze is not for you.
YOU
Is JJ Abrahams a hack?
AEDEN
Im sorry, per the Westworld confidentiality policy, we cannot disclose personal information about any of our guests.
AEDEN
Just between you and me, though, I can tell you that Mr. Abrams is quite a fanboy.
You: Can i find god in the park?
AEDEN:
Like people, hosts have backstories that provide them with various relationships to religion.
AEDEN:
However, a while back, it was said that all hosts were initially created with an ability to actually hear the voice of their gods. But the founders lost faith in that method and our minds have grown quieter since.
You: Who is the MIB?
AEDEN
Just between you and me, though, the Man in Black is something of a VIP. What else would you like to know about the park?
YOU
What is the maze?
AEDEN
The maze is not for you.
YOU
Is JJ Abrahams a hack?
AEDEN
Im sorry, per the Westworld confidentiality policy, we cannot disclose personal information about any of our guests.
AEDEN
Just between you and me, though, I can tell you that Mr. Abrams is quite a fanboy.
Veritigo_X
Member
They knew that the family "left early." That only means something if they're monitoring closely. There might be something in the T&S on the website that gives better insight to this. Like, if they're monitoring closely could they watch people fucking in the brothel if they wanted?
Also, I know you're not on board the whole William story is in the past theory, but that line about not knowing if anyone was with Delores just seemed to add fuel to that fire too.
But yeah, I think William's friend was probably just theorizing about how he thinks the park operates. But with all the tech we've seen so far it isn't out of the ordinary to think they can monitor heart rate with the clothing or something. Also wouldn't be hard to assume they track movements and other analytics that send alerts when something looks weird.
Lasthope106
Member
Last episode had me worried, but this one just confirmed this show can be consistently good. I love that the show keeps me guessing who is good and who is bad. All the characters are well written and have depth to them. Anthony Hopkins character keeps getting more and more menacing. Can't wait for next week.
I agree with this. I don't know why people think Wyatt is an entirely new character. New backstories and scenarios for him and Teddy seem the most logical. As simple as that.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
okies i saw newest episode~ yaaay~
not a bad episode :> i like dolores and lawrence (he's hilarious :>)
two comments, though:
not a bad episode :> i like dolores and lawrence (he's hilarious :>)
two comments, though:
- i wish i can rock out with the man in black as he whipped out his max level character when he 'kicked butts' at the prison, but yeah stake* is so low as it's basically PvE rubbish :<
(still the lawrence bit was funny though so i was able to enjoy it as comedy instead of action genre
)
- the maeve thing is slightly questionable? like they were monitoring that there were another guest(s) arriving in town so they intervened by jamming the weapons and stuff, but they weren't paying attention to maeve's out of bounds behaviours? werent they more on the ball about this in the earlier episodes?
also, when she woke up and ran off from the two technicians, why didn't they issue verbal commands to get her under control? aren't verbal commands the most used operating tool we've seen so far in the series?
*steak steak steak omnomnomnom
I don't think it was a big enough deviation to be considered out of bounds. She's supposed to be there since she's the madame of the Mariposa, she owns a gun and is authorized to use it during the heist (episode 1), and she's supposed to let them get away with the safe. The only variation in this loop to someone not closely monitoring her dialogue is that she went up with Hector instead of just telling the goons where the safe was at.
As for why the guest were monitored and not the heist, the heist is a known loop while the guests were flagged cause they were families heading into the main town which is supposed to be family friendly. Since Hector was ahead of schedule thanks to the MiB busting him out early, those families could be walking into something they didn't want their kids to see so the call was made to speed up the clean up of the heist for the families. The only reason the heist in episode 1 was monitored was cause it was an extra bloody heist to cover up the hotfix maintenance they were performing on the large number of hosts. And the only reason Maeve was specifically monitored before was cause her client numbers had been in a decline, not because she was acting loony like Abernathy or the milk man. Once her client numbers improved they would have stopped monitoring her interactions.
No idea, my only guess is panic at having her wake up and grab the scalpel.
Robot Pants
Member
This is what I've thought since episode 3.
Testing to see if given similar circumstances, he will make the same choices Arnold did.
Cabbagehead
Member
This episode was raw as shit, i was locked in all the way through.
Now its on to episode five. Which looks like it will be a blast no doubt as it's around this time. That the "oh shit" part of a series starts. With Ford (Master-GM) and MIB (VIP) meeting, maybe for the first time even in the playground itself.
Also the fact that MIB hasn't met every one of the host and was surprising. Given how long he's been going and seemed to be a little taken aback to that fact, but enjoyed that caveat and her personality an of course the information provided that helped his adventure.
Lots of fun moments there in the prison and thereafter.
Anyone else thinks that MIB saying that he wants them to be "free" doesn't mean just them. But it's about making the park more real and less control-led, allowing the host to have more freedom in their actions instead of the endless loop their on and maybe he himself has a real death wish?
More so the guest that were with that posse really ticked him off, when they tried to bring the real world into his peace of mind (rather good or bad), he didn't seem proud. That was the first time we heard/saw a guest threaten another guest. Wonder if the host would have jumped into action (given the preview) and in time to stop it.
After that, there seemed to be some protocol(?) or something for other host to notice other host that don't fit or aren't where they should be naturally and take them back. Some by force even? even if true that interaction with Dolores and that Sherif. Didn't seem right at all, very intense before it was interrupted by William.
Other then that Ford is a bit of a dick, with that outdoor dinner talk down.
But of course he seems like a realist, more then a little jaded and very pragmatic, so it's a expected. Though i think he's not telling all and he knows or at least has a inkling to what is going on with Dolores. I'm sure and frankly, somewhere in my mind it's telling me. He's not who he says he is or is not telling the story about Arnold other then just his death in fulll. For non-obvious reasons.
But that's more or less tinfoil...
Very glad we are going to see more of the park, hope that's a trend.
Now its on to episode five. Which looks like it will be a blast no doubt as it's around this time. That the "oh shit" part of a series starts. With Ford (Master-GM) and MIB (VIP) meeting, maybe for the first time even in the playground itself.
Also the fact that MIB hasn't met every one of the host and was surprising. Given how long he's been going and seemed to be a little taken aback to that fact, but enjoyed that caveat and her personality an of course the information provided that helped his adventure.
Lots of fun moments there in the prison and thereafter.
Anyone else thinks that MIB saying that he wants them to be "free" doesn't mean just them. But it's about making the park more real and less control-led, allowing the host to have more freedom in their actions instead of the endless loop their on and maybe he himself has a real death wish?
More so the guest that were with that posse really ticked him off, when they tried to bring the real world into his peace of mind (rather good or bad), he didn't seem proud. That was the first time we heard/saw a guest threaten another guest. Wonder if the host would have jumped into action (given the preview) and in time to stop it.
After that, there seemed to be some protocol(?) or something for other host to notice other host that don't fit or aren't where they should be naturally and take them back. Some by force even? even if true that interaction with Dolores and that Sherif. Didn't seem right at all, very intense before it was interrupted by William.
Other then that Ford is a bit of a dick, with that outdoor dinner talk down.
But of course he seems like a realist, more then a little jaded and very pragmatic, so it's a expected. Though i think he's not telling all and he knows or at least has a inkling to what is going on with Dolores. I'm sure and frankly, somewhere in my mind it's telling me. He's not who he says he is or is not telling the story about Arnold other then just his death in fulll. For non-obvious reasons.
But that's more or less tinfoil...
Very glad we are going to see more of the park, hope that's a trend.
This bit confused me too, but maybe Wyatt was already around and they just added bit more backstory for him?
Cabbagehead
Member
Anyone sense some themes of Transhumanism with Arnold "death"? given the voices. Plus it's seems like Willam by marriage is Mr.Asshole brother in law and they may be connected to this park in someway. Other then just the money, since Mr.Asshole hinted at this being family business or something to that affect. In regards to Dolores reason or happening to be there.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
chicko1983
Member
Sorry fam you are about two episodes behind me in this theory. There is proof in this thread somewhere
ShemhazaiX
Member
You're watching a Jonathan Nolan written TV series. There are going to be a lot of misdirects just to fuck with viewer expectations. Unless they say something specifically like "Yeah, Delores is with the guest William", it's not really evidence either way.
Also, people really get hung up about loops being evidence one way or the other, when really we have no way of knowing when the loops take place. People keep assuming that just because Teddy wasn't with Delores that one time when the ranch gets raided, that it was present day because he was off hunting Wyatt. But there will have been hundreds of loops where Teddy was off doing something else, and many loops where she would have escaped.
There might not even be just two timelines. For all we know, Ford's development of the new narrative could be slightly before the MiB is in the park searching for the maze. The whole plot lends itself to obfuscating exactly when stuff is happening, because almost everything has been repeating itself for 30 years, and unless they're specific about things, it's impossible to tell exactly which loop we're watching.
I'm not in agreement. I just think he's pretty badly developed as a character and people are looking for a way to make the character interesting. I'm pretty sure he's going to end up being a regular old human.
I really dug the interaction between Ford and that boss lady (forgot her name). In previous episodes he came off as a goodish guy but now he seems pretty crazy. I also like how he unpaused the Hosts by slightly pointing his finger, he truly is a God in that world.
Now I get the feeling the Man In Black is somewhat of a good guy. I just want to watch it all unfold.
Now I get the feeling the Man In Black is somewhat of a good guy. I just want to watch it all unfold.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
lol no, I definitely don't agree Bernard is a host. People are trying reeeeeeeally hard to find "the twist" to the point that it's just getting silly.
GUYS, FORD IS A HOST MADE BY ALBERT
I'm under the assumption that the Maze meta-narrative is implemented in such a way that it's able to adapt to narrative alterations and host-swaps.
And yes, it's quite possible Wyatt existed, albeit without his current Ford-ified narrative.
GUYS, FORD IS A HOST MADE BY ALBERT
I'm under the assumption that the Maze meta-narrative is implemented in such a way that it's able to adapt to narrative alterations and host-swaps.
And yes, it's quite possible Wyatt existed, albeit without his current Ford-ified narrative.
So rewatching ep four I'm seeing another clue for the past/present mixed timelines that hasn't been brought up.
- Dickhead brother-in-law is all excited about "El Lazo" being the 'best ride in the park'. But currently wouldn't it be Hector? With MiB's line about him he's definitely being touted as the best.
- Dickhead brother-in-law is all excited about "El Lazo" being the 'best ride in the park'. But currently wouldn't it be Hector? With MiB's line about him he's definitely being touted as the best.
shira
Member
The guy is pretty lewd, maybe el lazo is just good in bed.
BossDarkseid
Member
I am have only seen Ep 1 and Ep 2 but i enjoy the meta-narrative about storytelling and creating fictional worlds.
He called El Lazo an easteregg meaning most guests won't encounter him. Whereas the things the MiB says about Hector make it clear he's normally part of a everybody tries it storyline.
Seriously, the timeline stuff is just silly and requires ignoring a lot of stuff/passing it off as misdirection. I mean, let's look at the order of events
1. Dolores is raped/molested by MIB at the end of her story
2. When she meets with Teddy afterwards she occasionally remembered MIB
3. She asked Teddy about leaving, Teddy tells of his mysterious background
4. After that, Teddy talks with Ford and Ford gives Teddy his backstory
5. Teddy's New backstory kicks in, prompting Dolores to go out for herself and run off after her family is killed (again)
6. She comes across William while running and goes "off script"
7. MIB finds Teddy while looking for the guy from Teddy's backstory who was strung up after his encounter that prompted Dolores to go out on her own in the previous episode
The only way this would make any sense in the "different timelines" stuff is if Teddy got his backstory 30 years ago (which he didn't unless Ford doesn't age) and if Dolores' storyline has been exactly the same for at least 30 years (which probably also isn't true, especially if that storyline has already caused huge problems in the past).
1. Dolores is raped/molested by MIB at the end of her story
2. When she meets with Teddy afterwards she occasionally remembered MIB
3. She asked Teddy about leaving, Teddy tells of his mysterious background
4. After that, Teddy talks with Ford and Ford gives Teddy his backstory
5. Teddy's New backstory kicks in, prompting Dolores to go out for herself and run off after her family is killed (again)
6. She comes across William while running and goes "off script"
7. MIB finds Teddy while looking for the guy from Teddy's backstory who was strung up after his encounter that prompted Dolores to go out on her own in the previous episode
The only way this would make any sense in the "different timelines" stuff is if Teddy got his backstory 30 years ago (which he didn't unless Ford doesn't age) and if Dolores' storyline has been exactly the same for at least 30 years (which probably also isn't true, especially if that storyline has already caused huge problems in the past).
ShemhazaiX
Member
You're acting like each of these can happen in only one loop.
1) Delores is raped by MiB during one of her loops, which she flashes back to.
2) This is the "Modern day" timeline.
3) Modern day again.
4) Modern day.
5) This is where the argument gets muddied. The ranch attack happens in every loop, and they've even given us a flow chart which explains what happens. It's actually quite common for Delores to go back to the ranch without Teddy and get raped etc.
6) There's at least two loops where she goes to the Mexican(?) town. One where she interacts with Lawrence's daughter (which we can assume is modern day) and one that she flashes back to with William. When the William loop is set we don't know.
7) Modern day again.
forgeforsaken
Member
I really don't like the William theory and so far find its support to be a bit weak and hope it doesn't turn out to be true. My biggest problem with it, is it moves from unreliable narrator as seen in a show like Mr. Robot to unreliable presentation. We see numerous instances of William not interacting with Dolores, so these aren't just flashback memories of her; to be presented with two time periods with no call out would be deceptive by the show runners in a way that would cause me to drop the series.
The timeline people continue to be out of their minds. I suppose they never considered it weird that the park would look the same and have the exact same characters and storylines for 30 years, when we've already seen what the original characters looked like with the Ford basement scene
More_Badass
Member
30 years ago might be relatively short if they've cured all diseases and can extend lifetimes
That original host could be 100 years old.
More_Badass
Member
They've planned out five at least
And yeah, there is no way this is sticking to the park. The park is just essentially a Komodo island or Antarctic subterranean lake: a closed ecosystem where a species can develop and evolve in isolation.
Consider how an invasive species can upset an entire ecosystem. Now imagine what will happen when this synthetic species is introduced to the world at large
So theyve never changed characters or update environments for all this time?
More_Badass
Member
They've indicated in the first episode that they keep characters around but change their roles. But those roles can last for years. Remember how the father had been in that role for a decade?
Right, so every single character and location