More_Badass
Member
That's an interesting ideology conflict. Ford believes the park shows people who they really are, like some kind of
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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
- Start date
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
In America? You would need HBO Now, which is their streaming service. It isnt coming to Hulu or Netflix probably ever. It'll eventually end up on Amazon Prime Instant since they have a deal with HBO, but even that won't be for a few years.
Or the season pass method through iTunes, PSN, Amazon, etc. I'm partial to HBO Now, lots of good stuff on there
Ford doesn't believe that, he believes the opposite. The park showing you who you "really are" is a PR gimmick which they use as a selling point. It's what the writer was parroting, and it's what Logan was telling William. That's what Delos wants to sell people. Ford believes that people already know who they really are, but the park gives them a way to see who they -could- be if freed from the responsibilities of the world or any moral obligation of society. It's make belief, it's fantasy. Ford feels people recognize that and aren't fooled. He is right. Ford is the designer who respects the intelligence of the gamers, while the Delos is the publisher who dumbs things down to sell easy ideas and cheap thrills.
I think MiB is the sort of customer who represents exactly what Ford was talking about. He doesn't come here to "find himself" but he comes here to live out a fantasy he can't in the real world.
In last night's episode the security guy (hemsworth) clearly okays the MiB request for explosives and responds about Delores being out of her loop. If you are trying to say MiB = William then why haven't the employees also aged?
More_Badass
Member
That makes more sense, thanks
TheWorthyEdge
Member
Darn, darn, darn...
They haven't aged because all of that is happening in the present. Dolores is indeed in that town right now and is off loop, because as we saw last week after the incident at her home she ran off. But did she run off and then meet William and Logan? Or has this all happened before in the past, and is she retracing her steps in a trance and confusing memories and reality?
If when they asked if any guests are with her, the reply was "she entered the town with two of them" then the theory would be dead immediately. But now it lives on for another episode. Lol.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Yeah, I was about to say this. I don't believe in the theory but there is lots of wiggle room. The confrontation she had in the town is the past and the control room talking about it is her going rogue in the present.
Im really enjoying how theyre slowly peeling back the layers of how they control this park and what the guests can do. Guests acting crazy and impacting the park for other visitors? Have their gun jam. Advanced skills and reward tiers for returning players? Check. Purple drops? That too!
More_Badass
Member
And seriously, this is like the best gaming-inspired piece of fiction outside of video games ever. Honestly I'd argue it does more to help the perspective of games as a growing and evolving medium than any video game adaptation ever could. Consider how movies will tackle the nature of being an author and writing, and dig deep like in some Stephen King's work, or how Black Swan and Black Mirror can extrapolate and find compelling subtext and themes in their inspirations. Now we have a show exploring many video games aspects in intelligent manners
If there is something that really seems to kill the William = MiB theory, I think it would be that MiB knows a lot more about the park's history than William does. Now, it's possible that William just learns all this eventually over the 30 years, but it would make more sense narratively that Arnold died 30 years ago in the incident, and that event is what makes MiB keep coming back because he wants to solve the ultimate mystery. The Westworld William is in doesn't seem like one where Arnold is still alive in.
Which makes it all the more funny that here on a videogame message board alot of people seemingly miss the obvious parallels.
Who hasnt met that one guy who just wants to power game at the dnd table? Or which of us hasnt mowed down a pedestrian or other NPC in GTA just because it was convenient ?
Yea I guess she could've just been off loop after remembering things from the past. Since the park doesn't really change on the inside everything basically stays on the rails. I'm just not a fan of the theory, so at the time of watching I just accepted everyone in the park is there right now.
I'm stuck thinking that if the Delores conversations aren't happening in real time because she was in the park at night with Will and co. then why can't there be other timeline differences. Like you said another week the theory goes on. Hopefully something more concrete can clear it up.
Regarding the episode in general. I liked seeing the way the park deals with families and how they can curb activities (jam guns, etc.). I was laughing at Will's buddy who is basically playing a video game, "oh shit a shiny new pistol with better stats!", "we found a hidden quest!". It reminds me of some of the dumb things me and my friends say when playing games together. Besides all that Hopkins is killing it. We know everything about our guests .... and employees ... oh yea btw the robots do what I say and time to steamroll over your found memories because I can.
You can't definitively say William =/= mib but at this point you're grasping to keep it alive after the end of the last episode and now this episode.
I really don't think they are just constantly switching timelines at this point. Its possible sure, but it basically destroys the narrative they've created both inside the park and the mgmt narrative - with Ford creating a new narrative with teddy, wyatt, delores, william all seemingly on that timeline. The board mgmt people being mentioned by Ford as being on site (most likely Logan and william given Logan's comments).
The line about them not being sure if Delores was with a guest was somewhat perplexing, but they did say the new narrative was somehow affecting their monitoring capabilities.
I also thought it was interesting that it seems like they sent a host to bring Delores in? Does that make any sense? If it was a human who was trying to bring her back wouldn't they be alarmed by her behavior? Or does her being with a host mean that she would actually remember her father being killed so then he would just shrug shoulders and go ok, you're with a guest, have a nice day.
I think this is just Nolan intentionally making things ambiguous to allow for speculation, but most signs point to everything being on the same timeline.
Host intake protocol:
So, it seemed like they sent a host to retrieve Delores. Does that make any sense?
If it was a park employee human who was retrieving her it seemed strange he wasn't really alarmed by her behavior.
Also did not follow this protocol to freeze Delores but maybe they knew there were guests nearby and didn't want to do that.
They may have been uncertain if she was "with" a guest but maybe knew she was in the vicinity of guests but not necessarily actively involved with any in an actual narrative of sorts. That and Ford's new narrative throwing off their monitoring capabilities.
So then if it was a human it might have just been ok she would remember her father dying if she was with a guest because she is on a different loop effectively if she's with a guest. So they were essentially confirming she didn't go off loop on her own but at the behest of a guest.
I don't think keeping the William/MiB theory alive is grasping at straws at all. I mean, as long as it's a possibility, it remains a possibility, and that's what makes discussing it interesting. I think at this point it is -more- likely that they are not the same person and everything is happening in the present. I'm not super invested in it being true, but until the show very clearly rules it out, it's more of a question of... why not?
But that still leaves questions about the logos and about the biggest "mystery" of all in the writing - if the MiB is just totally stand alone character who is an important person in the world and a VIP guess in the park, why doesn't he have a name for the audience? Why are we calling him MiB. Why are the episode blurbs calling him MiB. Why not just introduce who he is? That deliberate aspect suggests that his name and identity will have some impact, and that it will mean something specifically to the -audience- when it is revealed, because it seems clear that the people in the actual story know who he is.
Because of this central element, speculation continues. I think the speculation is intended by design, and so playing by the rules of what we have been shown, putting things together and seeing how they fit is part of the fun.
But that still leaves questions about the logos and about the biggest "mystery" of all in the writing - if the MiB is just totally stand alone character who is an important person in the world and a VIP guess in the park, why doesn't he have a name for the audience? Why are we calling him MiB. Why are the episode blurbs calling him MiB. Why not just introduce who he is? That deliberate aspect suggests that his name and identity will have some impact, and that it will mean something specifically to the -audience- when it is revealed, because it seems clear that the people in the actual story know who he is.
Because of this central element, speculation continues. I think the speculation is intended by design, and so playing by the rules of what we have been shown, putting things together and seeing how they fit is part of the fun.
More_Badass
Member
The ultimate Turing Test for Delos' hidden motivations
So nice to see Hector back. I think he's one of the most stylish characters on the show: his hat, black clothes and the way he walks... just got me thinking he doesn't give/know a shit about what's going on, LOL
His scene with Maeve was awesome! Great way to finish this episode!
Can't wait for more next week.
His scene with Maeve was awesome! Great way to finish this episode!
Can't wait for more next week.
Interesting that they use the term "livestock", which does imply that they understand the hosts as living things, rather than inanimate objects.
the more I think about it the more I love the characters in this show. So many of them are really well designed (visually) and super interesting. Can't wait to watch them grow. The snake lady and her friend in jail were both super rad. Plus the way MiB looked in those shots - wow.
They used that term in the pilot episode when referencing the hosts in storage in the basement I believe.
It does make me wonder... do they eat? Can they starve? Do they get drunk or are the acting drunk.
Do they poop? What if you want a Cleveland steamer at the whorehouse?
So someone fucked up and left shrapnel within ThandieHost intake protocol:
Or did it intentionally
There was dialog saying to patch her up quickly to get her back into the park asap.
She had a flashback that explained this - the "surgeons" knew the shrapnel was in there but they were pressed for time and left it in there hoping that no one would notice. Her memory of that was what motivated her to cut herself open and check.
You know it's kinda funny how they keep fucking up Maeve. You would think after the last fuck up where she woke up there would be a big "DO NOT FUCK AGAIN" warning.
I agree speculation is part of the fun as Nolan has even pointed out.
Yeah it is a bit weird that he still hasn't been named, which maybe does suggest he is william, or william is the only logical candidate at this point.
Or I think they were just intentionally keeping him as an anonymous villian, but have been developing him away from that since ep 1, and will reveal his name / real world identity in the next episode.
My guess would be since his foundation saved another guest's relative's life, he has something to do with biomed/synth tech on a similar level to westworld. He may actually be mgmt or he is mgmt from a similar company who doesn't do all this theme park bullshit and he is trying to do some research to see if there's anything deeper to the park on a research level. Something like that. And yeah it would seem he has some connection to Arnold.
Just because he's anonymous to this point doesn't mean he has to be revealed to be someone already introduced, but I could see that happening.
So yeah I guess it's not grasping. Will be interesting to see what is revealed in the coming episodes.
This is actually a show I wouldn't want all the epiaodes in the season to be released at once because it's good to have some time to think about things.
Veritigo_X
Member
I like the relationship between MiB and Lawrence, minus the whole MiB torturing him and killing his wife thing.
Garrett 2U
Member
What do you think is inside the safe?
The MiB told Hector that he is mistaken as to what is inside the Safe.
And yet... Hector went to steal it right after.
I'm thinking they put the bullet and drawing inside the safe.
The MiB told Hector that he is mistaken as to what is inside the Safe.
And yet... Hector went to steal it right after.
I'm thinking they put the bullet and drawing inside the safe.
Have no idea. I also can't remember: Did Hector actually open the safe by the end of the episode? Or Maeve didn't give him all the combination numbers?
ShemhazaiX
Member
Garrett 2U
Member
forgeforsaken
Member
Garrett 2U
Member
No they didn't open the safe. The sheriff was trying to break down the door when the camera cut.
So they definitely could have opened it by the time they were subdued.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Nothing. It's his personal macguffin to drive his narrative and backstory. It's like with Teddy who only have a vague motivator for his backstory until Ford put in something more specific. Hector is programmed to rob the saloon on a periodic basis as part of his storyline. His objective is to get the safe, he doesn't need to know why, and it doesn't matter.
That's why the MiB told him the piece of advice that the safe he's looking for is a wild goose chase.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
She got shot, so her memory got wiped, and will only remember tiny bits of that revelation, if anything at all. She didn't have any time to write it down.
More_Badass
Member
She'll remember.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
That was supposed to be Hector? Was that the same actor? They didn't speak the same way.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
That wasn't Hector. That was Horace. Different outlaws, different actors. Hector is only in the first episode and this one so far.
Not necessarily nothing, there might be money in it but my guess is that the saloon heist always results in Hector dying as part of the narrative loop ending, so mib is telling him there's nothing in it for him. Maybe sometimes he gets out of the saloon with the money, and then dies, but my guess is they always have hosts swarm him at the end so they can reset his loop. My guess would be it's at least a 28 day loop so the odds of a guest seeing the same heist more than once is at least diminished.