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[jason10mm]

That depends. Studios especially Disney make more money on IP merchandising than they do the actual box office in general. The money from the films is nice but irs a small part of their set up.

Less films isn't necessarily a bad thing, and at the cost of having the workers actually make a decent wage doing this stuff its a price im willing to pay.

It ain't YOU that will be paying though, it's the writers, VFX, and set crew that are now unemployed that will pay. The ones that stick around might make more, but a large chunk will make ZERO.

Ain't necessarily a bad thing if it is merit based, but we all know things like Array Crew will skew the process and it WILL NOT be based on merit alone.

In dont really care if the execs make less, more so that everyone under them can make more. But the execs can serve to make less too, because the amount they make is ludicrous from any perspective. I think forcing them to be more frugal and more choosy about what they spend money on isn't a bad thing at all.

You are not getting it. The "Execs" WILL NOT MKAE LESS. The shareholders investors WILL NOT MAKE LESS. They will just cut projects and focus on safer projects with a better return. But if you are happy with fewer, less experimental, stuff then good on yah. Hollywood having to regain and refocus on middle america instead of the coastie twitter crowd is a win in my book as well.

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

Here is Hollywood’s agenda:

‘Make as much money as possible, by exploiting the things that the young people like.’

Really? Because judging by the constant bombs Disney has been suffering you wouldn’t think so.

Disney and the others aren’t pushing those agendas because they believe in them. They’re pushing them because they think it’s what’s popular.

And they’re hiring terrible, terrible writers who do believe in the agendas.

You think Bob Iger gives a fuck about inclusion or diversity? Of course he fucking doesn’t.

The studio executives are the problem, not the writing community.

How long before Hollywood realises that appropriating franchises that people love and pushing agendas through them is losing them money? The execs are doing the hiring so the buck stops with them but let’s be honest, there are a lot of activist writers.

 

[jason10mm]

I would say this - job security should be a factor in determining salary. This can work in WGA favor - contract and short-term work should pay more than a job with security, where it is difficult to get fired unless you really fuck up.

This would work in a streamer dominate world. Netflix, for example, has their own production studios and distribution capability, so they could have a "permanent staff" of writers, set crew, and even actors that fill 90% of the jobs from project to project, with just the lead actors and showrunner/director changing out depending on the project. They don't need to sell content to distributors or even compete for screen time, so they can map out a flow of content years in advance and self-finance most of it. Then going to film festivals and bidding on projects already paid for and completed by someone esle is less a concern.

Marvel essentially does this as well, I think, they have a stable production team which gives their films a very consistent look (which is good or bad when you compare it to the DC equivalent) so the actual humans don't change as much between films. They also sign their actors to VERY long deals which usually means the actors get paid LESS until the contract has to be renegotiated, then it hits the stratosphere. But guys like Jonanthan Majors might be quietly making bank if his contract was for X movies and he has an early termination clause (though he may have a "misconduct discharge" clause as well) that pays him for films he won't even do.

 

[Rentahamster]

You are not getting it. The "Execs" WILL NOT MKAE LESS. The shareholders investors WILL NOT MAKE LESS. They will just cut projects and focus on safer projects with a better return.

Did this outcome happen after every previous strike that resulted in writers and actors getting more money?

List of Hollywood strikes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[FunkMiller]

Did this result happen after every previous strike that resulted in writers and actors getting more money?

Needless to say… no it did not.

 

[FunkMiller]

The execs are doing the hiring so the buck stops with them but let’s be honest, there are a lot of activist writers.

There really isn’t. Not in ratio to the entirety of the professional writing community.

You think you hate activist writers, try being a writer who isn’t like that, and can’t get any work because studio executives keep hiring college drop outs who think diversity is more important than story.

 

[jason10mm]

Did this outcome happen after every previous strike that resulted in writers and actors getting more money?

List of Hollywood strikes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I dunno, 1988, 2008, you can track some shifts in quality after those dates. Technology tends to remodel the movie industry every few decades anyway, making it hard to draw too many lines from then to now. I think we are about to see a mini-holocaust in the amount of productions, but thats probably mostly due to the collapse of streaming rather than these strikes, but it certainly isn't gonna help and coming off covid isn't either.

For example, it looks like we are already in a major film depression post-covid, but I bet a bunch of that gap is stuff going to streaming.

but look at BO. A LOT of theatrical $$$ is just gone

so I doubt a lot of execs are thinking they have tons of $$$ lying around.

And of course the international market is ALL CHINA, so are you really gonna see hollywood play hardball with China or try to restrict productions from going there? Ain't no way the studios would restrict production or VFX from China if that AT ALL threatens a movies chance of seeing a mainland release.

 

[YCoCg]

But what you got are entitled lazy babies who are self centred and want as much wages they can get working as little as possible

Productivity is up more than ever and outgoing costs for it have stagnated for years. But hey we know your stance, everyone should just shut up and work and hope their boss is kind enough to give them a raise.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Productivity is up more than ever and outgoing costs for it have stagnated for years. But hey we know your stance, everyone should just shut up and work and hope their boss is kind enough to give them a raise.

It's up? what happened to to all the claims that WFH, less commutes, less bosses watching over people leads to more productivity? what happened to.... "well guys, I can get a lot more work done doing it at home because I am more refreshed and can get to work right away instead of commuting and dressing for work"?

American worker productivity is declining at the fastest rate in 75 years—and it could see CEOs go to war against WFH

EY-Parthenon's Gregory Daco reveals what's going on with the American worker's worst slump of the post-World War II era. It's not all about remote work, he says.

finance.yahoo.com

 

[YCoCg]

It's up?

American worker productivity is declining at the fastest rate in 75 years—and it could see CEOs go to war against WFH

EY-Parthenon's Gregory Daco reveals what's going on with the American worker's worst slump of the post-World War II era. It's not all about remote work, he says.

finance.yahoo.com

Yes, just because one sector of Office workers is in decline, and let's be honest they want to push that narrative so they can force WFH back to the office so they don't lose money on building rent, doesn't mean the rest are in a dive.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Yes, just because one sector of Office workers is in decline, and let's be honest they want to push that narrative so they can force WFH back to the office so they don't lose money on building rent, doesn't mean the rest are in a dive.

Really? So youre saying the article is lyng about numbers painting a false narrartive? lol

Companies want more profits. If a company can let go of leases to save money, they'll do it. If everyone works well at home and is productive, the first thing a company will do is downsize or outright not re-lease office space to save millions. You really think a company will purposely keep spending tons of money on pointless 5 year leases just for fun?

I can tell you've never worked in finance or managed anyone.

The U.S. has now had five consecutive quarters of year-over-year declines in productivity, according to research from EY-Parthenon, using data from the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics. That has never happened before, in data going back to 1948.

 

[YCoCg]

Really? So youre saying the article is lyng about numbers painting a false narrartive? lol

Yes

Companies want more profits. If a company can let go of leases to save money, they'll do it.

Finally you get it!

the first thing a company will do is downsize or outright not re-lease office space to save millions. You really think a company will purposely keep spending tons of money on pointless 5 year leases just for fun?

If it's anything like the UK, check out who owns these buildings.

I can tell you've never worked in finance or managed anyone.

I have not worked in finance but I have managed people, nice try with the attempted put down though.

The U.S. has now had five consecutive quarters of year-over-year declines in productivity, according to research from EY-Parthenon, using data from the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics

So you're saying productivity never went down for multiple decades BUT workers pay hasn't gone up to match it? And NOW, ONLY NOW, that Productivity is in decline for some industries, it's NOW a problem?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Yes

LOL

Finally you get it!

And thats the point. If people were productive at home, they'd can the leases and let people log in from home. The fact productivity is down despite all the clowns claiming WFH is such a productivity booster, mood booster, and time saver, it goes to show what a lot of us believed. Full of shit claims. Thats why bosses want people back in person. If all those benefits were true, WFH would be having rock star performances and people would be more productive like pre-covid when people were commuting to work.

If it's anything like the UK, check out who owns these buildings.

The article was based on US data. So bringing up the UK who cares.

I have not worked in finance but I have managed people, nice try with the attempted put down though.

Fine with me. I was half right. I knew you had no clue about dollars and productivity.

So you're saying productivity never went down for multiple decades BUT workers pay hasn't gone up to match it? And NOW, ONLY NOW, that Productivity is in decline for some industries, it's NOW a problem?

When did I claim that? And what does decades time periods have to do with post covid era productivity during a 5 quarter stretch? I'm just going by the article that said 5 quarters in a row hasnt been seen in their trackers going back to post WWII.

 

[Toons]

It ain't YOU that will be paying though, it's the writers, VFX, and set crew that are now unemployed that will pay. The ones that stick around might make more, but a large chunk will make ZERO.

Ain't necessarily a bad thing if it is merit based, but we all know things like Array Crew will skew the process and it WILL NOT be based on merit alone.

Thats not necessarily the case. More writers and producers and actors having more money is incentive for them to start more smaller studios that csn then hire more writers. We need to think outside of the box of the big guys, because there's a world of opportunity there that is much friendlier to newcomers, and often the content rivals if not exceeds the big guys.

More money being spread around is always better for the collective. It is the current state of things that strangleholds the industry.

You are not getting it. The "Execs" WILL NOT MKAE LESS. The shareholders investors WILL NOT MAKE LESS. They will just cut projects and focus on safer projects with a better return. But if you are happy with fewer, less experimental, stuff then good on yah. Hollywood having to regain and refocus on middle america instead of the coastie twitter crowd is a win in my book as well.

Again, more money in the pockets of creators still works out for creators. The execs arent the end all be all, ESPECIALLY in the age of streaming. Distribution without execs is easier than its ever been. Put money in the hands of artists, and they will make art, and they will hire others to make art too.

Also, if middle Americans put out more filmmakers we'd get more movies about middle America. But they don't. I'm all for that happening and for diversified experiences, but right now, again, the interest isnt there from big wigs.

 

[YCoCg]

The article was based on US data. So bringing up the UK who cares.

Because they're very similar, a lot of people in Government own property or have contacts with property owners and are under pressure from these people to push against the WFH mentality because they're losing money on buildings which should be in use.

Fine with me. I was half right. I knew you had no clue about dollars and productivity.

If you're going to talk like that, surely it means you DO work in that sector then?

I'm just going by the article that said 5 quarters in a row hasnt been seen in their trackers going back to post WWII.

So you're ignoring the rest of the information surrounding that because then it doesn't suit the point you're trying to make.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I would say this - job security should be a factor in determining salary. This can work in WGA favor - contract and short-term work should pay more than a job with security, where it is difficult to get fired unless you really fuck up.

Thats how it often works in contract work. Less stable jobs, short term stints, no benefits, but you can get paid a lot per hour. More than a FT worker's wages calculated at an hourly amount.

But in office jobber or blue collar factory contract work, nobody gets paid so much per hour they can make an annual living working 2 months per year and then sit around for the other 10 months. My company sometimes hires tax analysts end of year/beginning of year to sort out all the tax stuff the company does.

They only work at the company for about 2 months too. Some less than that. They arent getting $11,000 per week. I dont know how much they get paid since the other department does that part of taxes/accounting, but I'd ballpark if they get paid a similar amount as office contract workers I work with, they get paid around $50/hr (about $2000 per week assuming a 40 hr schedule and not 37.5 hrs).

At $11,000 for a 40 hour week, that's getting paid $275/hr.

 

[Yoda]

Others have already pointed out why $11k a week may seem like a lot, but writers and actors work in short durations (yay contract work) with little stability so in the long term it means little - so I'll add this. In the grand scheme of things these writers and sparsely-working actors aren't requesting anything more than crumbs

Can you supply a source for this graphic?

 

[jason10mm]

Again, more money in the pockets of creators still works out for creators. The execs arent the end all be all, ESPECIALLY in the age of streaming. Distribution without execs is easier than its ever been. Put money in the hands of artists, and they will make art, and they will hire others to make art too.

Totally not the case. Artists with money equals Ferraris, real estate, drugs, and expensive divorces. You think Tsylor Swift is gonna drop a few hundred mill of that HSLF A BILLION she's making on a record studio that will treat artists fairly and give them more money, you know, don't do all the shit that was done to her?

Nope. She's gonna put it where rich people ALWAYS put it.

no writers are setting up their own studio with their own money. J.J. Abrams got a deal with netflix. So did shonda rimes IIRC. Taylor scheridan works with Paramount. These folks are RICH, but one failed film puts them back in the poor house. They are not taking that risk.

Also, if middle Americans put out more filmmakers we'd get more movies about middle America. But they don't. I'm all for that happening and for diversified experiences, but right now, again, the interest isnt there from big wigs.

Well, sad to say if writers don't write about middle America its hard to blame middle America for not giving a shit about them. Coastie elites that can't tell stories people care about don't deserve work.

 

[ProtoByte]

It's up? what happened to to all the claims that WFH, less commutes, less bosses watching over people leads to more productivity? what happened to.... "well guys, I can get a lot more work done doing it at home because I am more refreshed and can get to work right away instead of commuting and dressing for work"?

American worker productivity is declining at the fastest rate in 75 years—and it could see CEOs go to war against WFH

EY-Parthenon's Gregory Daco reveals what's going on with the American worker's worst slump of the post-World War II era. It's not all about remote work, he says.

finance.yahoo.com

It's just cope and politics.

I hope they get some wins and are treated better.

This only applies to on-set VFX workers. Around 50, last I remember. To be honest, it's a surprise they weren't unionized already, if only because everyone and everything else on set falls under unionist organization.

Marvel VFX artists take first step toward unionisation amid Hollywood strikes

During a wave of action by actors and writers, the comic-book film giant faces calls to remedy its ‘toxic relationship’ with technical artists

www.theguardian.com

It's going to be next to impossible to organize the hundreds of people working in VFX offices around the states and overseas besides.

 

[Rentahamster]

It's going to be next to impossible to organize the hundreds of people working in VFX offices around the states and overseas besides.

Maybe. Baby steps.

 

[ProtoByte]

Maybe. Baby steps.

I'll be clear, it's not something I would like the idea of. An international union? Yeesh. They already have too much power as is.

 

[Rentahamster]

They already have too much power as is.

How did you come to this conclusion?

 

[ProtoByte]

How did you come to this conclusion?

People don't realise the many prisoners dilemmas one faces when they're an above average worker in a union. They don't realise the internal politics, both occupational and ideological, that run through unions and can absolutely destroy employees who don't deserve it. They don't realise how much PAC money unions use in the subversion of the cultural understanding of reality or the people that get in and/or stay in governmental office. International unions would be sinister entities that rival the globe spanning conglomerates that are not even supposed to get endemically involved in or subverted by the civics in other countries - an unavoidable reality for unions.

 

[Rentahamster]

People don't realise the many prisoners dilemmas one faces when they're an above average worker in a union. They don't realise the internal politics, both occupational and ideological, that run through unions and can absolutely destroy employees who don't deserve it. They don't realise how much PAC money unions use in the subversion of the cultural understanding of reality or the people that get in and/or stay in governmental office. International unions would be sinister entities that rival the globe spanning conglomerates that are not even supposed to get endemically involved in or subverted by the civics in other countries - an unavoidable reality for unions.

How is it that people don't realize this but you do? How commonplace is unions destroying employees who don't deserve it. Is this activity more commonplace than unions protecting employees who don't deserve to be fired or mistreated? How is Union PAC money different from corporate PAC money? Which one, when totaled across all industries, has a larger monetary footprint overall?

 

[Faust]

Derailed into politics. Closing.