I haven't read After Dark, but even the book I'm reading about his work mentioned that it was one of his weaker efforts. Curious to see what you think.
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What are you reading? (June 2015)
- Thread starter Maklershed
- Start date
I haven't read After Dark, but even the book I'm reading about his work mentioned that it was one of his weaker efforts. Curious to see what you think.
On the missus's recommendation:
Which makes this seem like an odd switch to make. I hope it doesn't color my perception of it. Would be happy to hear any thoughts on the book from those that have read it.
I haven't read this, but I'm gonna read it sometime this year. I have read Capote's other famous book - Breakfast at Tiffany.
In that book, the prose is very clean and crisp. Do please comment on the prose if you get a chance. I'm personally a big fan of Capote's prose.
I struggle with this idea, from time to time, when analyzing dialogue in works of fiction. The conflict is something like this:
Unless you're a master orator, you will trip up in your every day speech. Really, it happens all the time. It might've been different in an age when being "educated" meant being well-spoken to the point of ostentation, but even then, I doubt people were as eloquent as history books make them out to be. Speech isn't edited in the same way writing is edited, so if your intent, as a writer, is to create convincing dialogue, then you need to make their speech sufficiently flawed.
On the other hand, I thought the dialogue in Their Eyes Were Watching God was insufferable and I couldn't make it very far in A Clockwork Orange before the pidgin language ground my mind into a smooth pink-grey smear. Many of my most cherished bits of prose come in the form of dialogue spoken by characters who are, rather than speaking from their own life experience, directly channeling the words and ideas of their creator.
The question is, then, how to find the balance between dialogue that is believable and dialogue that is memorable?
Axelstream
Member
Thanks for the recommendation, duckroll -- I sat down and devoured this book in the span of a couple of hours.
I was enamored with this book for the first half. For the first couple of pages, I was trying to remember if Murakami's writing was always so clunky, or if it was just the translation. I felt a similar way when I started Norwegian Wood. Then, with a snap of the fingers -- and just like when I read Norwegian Wood -- I was completely engrossed in the wonderful bittersweet sense of Murakami's description, characters, and situations. It's not a rich style of writing, nor is it sparse, but it hits with an accuracy of feeling -- not with the razor-sharp precision of a writing genius, but with the deep, affective understanding of a quiet and reflective imagination. "When I opened my eyes, Shimamoto was still moving her fingers along her skirt. Somewhere deep inside my body I felt an exquisitely sweet ache." That was the sensation of reading this book. I enjoyed the observations on only children, music, business practices, and love -- love as pain, as the failure to understand, as hurting another person deeply and, perhaps, irreparably, sometimes by doing absolutely nothing. About an inauthentic life without ambition and without struggle.
Unfortunately, my admiration began to flag in the latter half, in which the main character Hajime begins to act selfishly without recourse. He reflects and recognizes, but never really self-interrogates or changes. The object of his obsession, Shimamoto, is not properly fleshed out, and so I came to sympathize with both characters less, unlike Naoko in Norwegian Wood, whose suffering I came to understand in her idiosyncrasies, interactions, and character moments. In that novel, I came to sympathize with Toru's flawed love for her. Here, there is only Murakami's failure to communicate what, exactly, makes Shimamoto such a special individual, beyond the traits she possessed in childhood. Hajime's willingness to throw away everything for her, then, gave rise to my personal frustration with his self-absorption and lack of moral responsibility. As "real" as it may have been for his character, this lack of self-interrogation poisoned the water and cheapened the other reflections in the novel. The tenderness, the "exquisite ache" present in the first half of the novel disappears in place of this immature, escapist romance.
Ultimately I'm glad I read this. The characters are not as fleshed out or memorable as in Norwegian Wood, and as a result the novel loses power in its payoff. Still, at this particular moment in my life, a lot of these themes spoke to me. I've only read three of his novels, but I wish that Murakami would take the next step as a writer and start complicating and interrogating these melancholy, navel-gazing protagonists of his. As sublime and empathetic a feeling they might be able to provide as narrators, they always feel limited in their worldview and their ability to break down the doors to something more meaningful, both for themselves and for the reader. Their listlessness feels representative of Murakami's lack of ambition as a writer, or his willingness to break past his comfortable (yet still wise and fascinating, to a point) range. I want to read an ambitious, self-interrogative novel from him.
I'm on to this next:
I've gotten a little into My Struggle Volume One By Karl Ove Knausgaard. I started it after reading his nytm travel story a few months ago (totally worth reading; highlights include: shoving his arm into a toilet to dislodge it of shit; ruminations on how different america is compared to his homeland; wow, Canadians are fat; obsessing about his failings as a human being; his family; history of ancestry in two countries; reconnecting with long lost relatives; snow; his quirky driver-slash-camera man; etc, etc), and yes, I don't read much because videogames, but anyways it's very and delightfully readable. Props to the translator, without whom this would be an unbearable mass of words delivered in the same format as a Brandon Sanderson series.
The book opens up ruminating on death and moves to his childhood, where he talks about a vision he sees on tv, and how the shock and fear of it never translated to his father. Karl Ove the author wants to chronicle it honestly, but finds it impossible due to distance, and often can't help but talk with the authority or exhaustion of age, and in doing so tells the story of that incident more through the eyes of his father than he himself as a child.
Oddly enough it reminded me of a passage in Never Let Me Go, where the narrator is speaking of a scene in her childhood, about herself as a child dancing to the song with a doll in her arms. She imagines that the doll is a child and she the mother, and while dancing sees an older woman watching her, weeping. We see the scene through the child's eyes, but empathy lies with the older woman, and the narrator, who has already framed her narrative as that of a telling - a story told about a past, and thus she knows what will happen to the child too - can't help but relay that incident with the emotions of the woman rather than the child.
Also got Ember in the Ashes by Sabaa Tahir, which seems to be one of those dystopian romance things that are so popular with the YA crossover audience, but instead of fighting against a vaguely 1984-ish regime they're instead fighting against a vaguely Roman empire that's called the 'Martial' Empire. It's written in terse 1st-person present tense like the Hunger Games, and of the two protagonists, neither one can be distinguished by voice alone. And of course, one's a girl and one's a boy and their romance is writ in the stars.
brotherbean
Member
I'm about halfway through Clive Barker's Coldheart Canyon. It's taking its time getting anywhere story wise but Clive's writing has always worked for me so I don't care, good read so far.
That's kind of why I like Sanderson's proses. When it comes to my personal preference in literature, the elegant nature of a prose ranks really low. I rather have something too simplistic (Sanderson) than too complicated (Lolita). I've said this before but I enjoyed A Little Life writing style since it isn't as simplistic as Sanderson's writing but I'm not going to stop at a line and try to comprehend what I'm reading like I did with Lolita.
Finished The Pillars of the Earth recently, great book, smart storytelling having most of the book set within city and towns very close together, it made a long epic book feel down to earth and easy to visualize. The world and characters were very well developed, sometimes it meanders too much.
Started reading The Scarlet Gospels today, I finished book one which is around 115 pages in, feels like the surface hasn't been touched at all yet within the world so I'm not sure how well it's going to finish in only 230 more pages, it doesn't read disjointed just small but I guess all that I've heard about it over the years left me expecting something on a bigger scale. The prologue was nuts, most disturbing thing Barker has written in years.
Started reading The Scarlet Gospels today, I finished book one which is around 115 pages in, feels like the surface hasn't been touched at all yet within the world so I'm not sure how well it's going to finish in only 230 more pages, it doesn't read disjointed just small but I guess all that I've heard about it over the years left me expecting something on a bigger scale. The prologue was nuts, most disturbing thing Barker has written in years.
I don't pretend to hold myself in high literary regard. I have no qualms with my preferences being seen as pedestrian by others who see themselves above this level of writing. I'm a fan of Sanderson's prose. I like that it flows well, and it allows me to read efficiently. The story is at the forefront, and the writing doesn't get in the way of that.
I'm not offended that you don't like it, and you certainly didn't need to edit your post out, but I don't think criticism of my preferences is necessary.
Hard to talk about him when I don't understand Russian. But I'd not say I'd pick him out for his prose per say - translated or otherwise.
And not from that particular novel.
Having said this, his streams of conciousness stuff is, for me personally, right up there with the best.
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
I've gotten a little into My Struggle Volume One By Karl Ove Knausgaard. I started it after reading his nytm travel story a few months ago (totally worth reading; highlights include: shoving his arm into a toilet to dislodge it of shit; ruminations on how different america is compared to his homeland; wow, Canadians are fat; obsessing about his failings as a human being; his family; history of ancestry in two countries; reconnecting with long lost relatives; snow; his quirky driver-slash-camera man; etc, etc), and yes, I don't read much because videogames, but anyways it's very and delightfully readable. Props to the translator, without whom this would be an unbearable mass of words delivered in the same format as a Brandon Sanderson series.
The book opens up ruminating on death and moves to his childhood, where he talks about a vision he sees on tv, and how the shock and fear of it never translated to his father. Karl Ove the author wants to chronicle it honestly, but finds it impossible due to distance, and often can't help but talk with the authority or exhaustion of age, and in doing so tells the story of that incident more through the eyes of his father than he himself as a child.
Oddly enough it reminded me of a passage in Never Let Me Go, where the narrator is speaking of a scene in her childhood, about herself as a child dancing to the song with a doll in her arms. She imagines that the doll is a child and she the mother, and while dancing sees an older woman watching her, weeping. We see the scene through the child's eyes, but empathy lies with the older woman, and the narrator, who has already framed her narrative as that of a telling - a story told about a past, and thus she knows what will happen to the child too - can't help but relay that incident with the emotions of the woman rather than the child.
Where are you from, Dresden. As a Norwegian, it's weird seeing Karl Ove Knausgård being mentioned in this thread, though I've heard he has gotten a little bit of attention also in the United States recently? I've read all six volumes of "Min Kamp", and two of his earlier works, big big fan of his.
Syph Medwes
Member
Same as last month, on account of not actually being able to read due to studying for the LSAT.
soon to be followed by The Rebel.
soon to be followed by The Rebel.
You Know Nothing
Member
Think I'm going to start A Little Life. I could use a good disillusionment of humanity. And a good cry. That too.
I was looking through my kindle purchase history and I kind of blame Mumei and Dresden for turning me into the "no fun allowed" monster I am today.
I used to be a swords and sorcery guy. I mean, I had taste, of course. I never read Goodkind and never really liked Rothfuss; but my purchase history was stuff like Game of Thrones and Iron Druid Chronicles (dropped this out of boredom by the third book), The Immortals, Bas-lag, The Company, Temeraire, Wool, Discworld...
Then this happened:
And from there it was all ogre:
I rallied for a bit, remembered what it was like to be human:
But it was not to last:
Oh I guess Cyan also takes some blame for it with his "book clubs".
I used to be a swords and sorcery guy. I mean, I had taste, of course. I never read Goodkind and never really liked Rothfuss; but my purchase history was stuff like Game of Thrones and Iron Druid Chronicles (dropped this out of boredom by the third book), The Immortals, Bas-lag, The Company, Temeraire, Wool, Discworld...
Then this happened:
And from there it was all ogre:
I rallied for a bit, remembered what it was like to be human:
But it was not to last:
Oh I guess Cyan also takes some blame for it with his "book clubs".
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
Sun Tzu's The Art of War bought a few months after the release of Europa Universalis IV
...
...
US, and it's probably more than a little bit of attention - sensation I guess? I'm certainly late to the party.
there's only one way out: join the dystopian YA revolution.
You Know Nothing
Member
https://twitter.com/dystopianya
The best thing on Twitter pretty much. I want her to write a satirical dystopian YA trilogy so badly.
Way ahead of you there.
I'll be honest. I developed a kind of fascination with the Mongol empire after playing EU4, and that was also why I picked up these two books at the same time:
In a moment of supreme nerdery, I considered how I could apply Art of War to my single player EU4 campaigns.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
I'm just wrapping up Part 1 of The Way of Kings by Brandon Sanderson. It's quite hard to judge it completely knowing that technically its just half of what is meant to be one big book, but I've really enjoyed it so far.
Once it's done I'm going to read The Shock Doctrine before I move onto The Way of Kings Part 2.
Once it's done I'm going to read The Shock Doctrine before I move onto The Way of Kings Part 2.
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
wow! let's hope he's the spearhead Norwegian litterature needs to break into the
Machiavelli is probably better suited for our MP sessions honestly
I have How to Win Friends and Influence People on the backlog. So, one day, whenever I finish reading about the squeezing of sperm from whale... heads, I'll learn what diplomacy is.
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
It's much the same really
BronzeWolf
Banned
I feel like I should give Dostoievski another chance. Granted I read the Spanish translation, which is not as smooth and reader-friendly as English translations usually are (I always get a laugh comparing Italian Opera to its translation in English) and now that I know more about the author I could have a better understanding of his work.
After long neglecting the author as a whole and later on making the mistake of reading the horrible german translation, I've finally started to read Middlesex by Jeffrey Eugenides.
I'm halfway through Book 2 so far and it is living up to its considerable praise. Though I get the feeling the story might not be as focused as it could have been, it hits a variety of themes I'm deeply interested in, like fugitives, gender and different concepts of familial structure. An enjoyable read, with a congenial narrator, toing the line between humor, depression and education. Bumped up the Virgin Suicides considerably in my reading list.
I'm halfway through Book 2 so far and it is living up to its considerable praise. Though I get the feeling the story might not be as focused as it could have been, it hits a variety of themes I'm deeply interested in, like fugitives, gender and different concepts of familial structure. An enjoyable read, with a congenial narrator, toing the line between humor, depression and education. Bumped up the Virgin Suicides considerably in my reading list.
V1LÆM
Gold Member
Bought all the Witcher books so I've started them. Well, I have up to Baptism of Fire cause the rest aren't published yet. I know there are fan translations.
Just started The Last Wish. Enjoying it so far. I'm not imagining Geralt as the one from the game for some reason. Maybe once I get more into it.
Apart from those books I've got into comics recently. Bought some by Gerard Way. Didn't enjoy the Killjoys but loved The Umbrella Academy. Gonna pick up some Batman, Watchmen, Scott Pilgrim soon.
Just started The Last Wish. Enjoying it so far. I'm not imagining Geralt as the one from the game for some reason. Maybe once I get more into it.
Apart from those books I've got into comics recently. Bought some by Gerard Way. Didn't enjoy the Killjoys but loved The Umbrella Academy. Gonna pick up some Batman, Watchmen, Scott Pilgrim soon.
sparky2112
Member
Interesting. I'll give them a try. To be fair to Dostoevsky, I've only read him via Garnett...
I'm not sure. I have not read a lot of fiction that attempts to capture the vagaries of everyday speech, but I suspect that the result would be something more artful than clear. When I speak off the cuff, I might get sidetracked, or have multiple digressions, or stop sentences halfway through as I rethink what I am going to say - and yet you would be able to follow along just fine. But in written form, that would be irritating to read. So, I think that even though ordinary speech is often flawed, we don't actually experience it as flawed - and would only notice it as flawed if we see it written out.
And I have occasionally transcribed for myself or for someone else - a short selection of an audio interview that had some element I wanted them to hear. And it's entirely possible for people to speak articulately and cogently off the cuff, in a way that reads smoothly when written out. I feel like most dialogue in fiction is sort of a slightly elevated form of that sort of articulateness, and most of the time I find it believable because my experience of ordinary speech and my experience of written speech are fairly similar, even if they aren't. I think that perhaps paradoxically it would almost feel less like real speech to me because I would experience it differently than I do actual speech.
In some cases, Cyan and I both get credit!
Though I would like to point out that I read plenty of "lowbrow" literature. I read the second half of The Wheel of Time just this year!
<3
Looking forward to hearing more!
wow! let's hope he's the spearhead Norwegian litterature needs to break into thebankgreat American market. Soon you all be walking around with your pocket editions of Dag Solstad, Kjartan Fløgstad, Stig Sæterbakken etc etc etc. It's about time. We haven't really had an international literary superstar since.. Knut Hamsun, I guess?
I'm not sure if he's doing well in sales (or if he is, by what metric), but just having flipped through the first few pages of reviews in the editions I've looked at, it's certainly a critical sensation.
I hope you like it!
Ebola, David Quammen. Real short, I should be done soon. Looking at some audiobook options but time is limited, I just took on a new on-line class so not a lot of time for reading for leisure.
sparky2112
Member
Well, that's why I deleted it originally.
I'm really not a snob. My preference is for more complex prose, but I certainly enjoy stuff that is straightforward as well. In fact, I'm amazed when something is considered 'literary' but uses fairly simplistic prose to still weave what adds up to more than the sum of its parts. And I've been known to read the occasional fantasy and sci-fi, most of which is not challenging. It's all good. And I'm not above you by any means.
Well, that's why I deleted it originally.
It's all good. And I'm not above you by any means.
Hemingway is about as simplistic as good writing gets and he is a legend. It isn't always about novel prose or complex writing.
Dedication Through Light
Member
Does it cover other viruses or only ebola?
Well put.
I'm only a third in but it seems to mostly be focusing on Ebola. Others are used as supporting facts and such. And I stress it is very short - 111 pages not counting sources and citations.
Didn't know this, but I'm not surprised.
Haeralis The BRave
Banned
.
Now, go read Ancillary Mercy, I thought it was a much stronger novel than AJ (if not as surprising.)
r u from the future m8
But, are you going to read the next one? Because that's where I find myself. It's just sort of ok and interesting enough to not quit on. The novelty for me was multiple instances of the same mind, however you want to define that, but it went mostly nowhere. The conventional sci fi move is to take an idea like that and tie it to some classic philosophical themes, amounting to an interesting meditation folded into the narrative.
So, it's pretty good and it's not creatively bankrupt like Revelation Space or something. I suppose I'll wait until I've run out of ideas for what to read next and come back to the series.
Whoooooops. Meant Ancillary Sword.
AS is a very, very different novel from AJ.
Who is the author? That sounds like something I would be really interested in.