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[Jonnyboy117]

It's all about "winning the hearts and minds of the people", and Nintendo has failed miserably for eight years now. No matter how good your system and games are, you have to convince consumers that it's worth buying. This should be an easy job with such a quality product, but Nintendo keeps screwing it up. I wish I could be more optimistic, but realistically, there's nothing Nintendo can do to make GameCube blow out Xbox this gen. That's not to say that there won't be some great games released on the system before the next console is ready, but I think as this generation wears on, the GameCube release schedule will start to look like the N64's last couple of years.

 

[Renegade]

Nintendo has nothing left software wise that will gather a new audience for the Gamecube. RE4 will be a good game, but it won't do it. 3rd party support is anemic. Zelda looks great but who knows...

Their 3rd party software will have to look up something terrible next year to make up for everything.

 

[DCX]

They'll have to find a way to generate 1.21 gigawatts of energy into the flux capacitor and travel back to 1993.

That's easy, use an XBOX or two to get 1.21 gigawatts...now how do we get to 88mph?

DCX

 

[Chrono]

All this take on how Nintendo is TEH D00m3D doesn't make sense when you realize Gamecube is selling standing equally with xbox in terms of sale-- and there are no xbox d00med threads. If anything Nintendo is PROFITING from the cube unlike Microsoft.

Resident Evil 4 will be an awesome game.. but-but-but it's nintendo! they lost us fans a long time ago.. zelda could be one of the biggest games in the history of videogames but.. but... microsoft looks cooler and is losing BILLIONS. how cool is that?

wtf

 

[Kobun Heat]

All this take on how Nintendo is TEH D00m3D doesn't make sense when you realize Gamecube is selling standing equally with xbox in terms of sale. If anything Nintendo is PROFITING from the cube unlike Microsoft.

It makes sense when you realize that all that kind of information goes in one ear, out the other. It's not negative, so it's all just white noise. Pops and whistles. Clicks and buzzes.

 

[etiolate]

Nintendo is a game company and right now it's not really about games in the videogame industry. Sony and MS are better at creating hype. Sony and MS's extra features have caught on mentally more than Nintendo's. Case in point, I have a PS2 with a Network adapter. Yet I never use it's DVD playback functions or play online with it. I have used my GBA with my Gamecube for Pacman VS though. By the majority's voice the opposite should be reality.

The Gamecube will still make them money with big software titles though. I bet we see a GC SP along with the new Zelda.

 

[Synbios459]

While I do agree that Nintendo needs a MUCH better internet strategy I really don't think the Revolution having a DVD player will matter that much. Just considering that everyone else has one

 

[Kobun Heat]

I keep hearing people say "GC SP" a lot as if it is shorthand for some idea some Internet person had one day and now everybody knows exactly what it means. What the hell is a GC SP? A Gamecube that folds in half?

 

[DCX]

Well this is why we all think like that. Nintendo is selling based off of the Nintendo name, Mario/Donkey Kong/Metriod/Zelda/Pokemon...it's in the bank, MS is selling based off of nothing...as a matter of fact, MS is a hated company...and despite that it's selling close to or above Nintendo...and it's a loved company. Nintendo hasn't done anything to move consoles, bring in the hardcore...and the 18-30 target audience these days. MS on the other hand, is making strides to please the gamers, the BEST internet strategy out there, the best hardware...just pushing itself...just like Dreamcast back in the day. Basically, it's like school...you got a smart mo-fo who doesn't study and get's As, and you get an average kid who busts his ass to get his As...who deserves the most credit? Or should we just say, they are both equal....

DCX

 

[Mejilan]

I'll go with the smart mo-fo. Enough ass kicking and he'll start busting his ass too, methinks.

 

[Chrono]

GC SP, whatever it is, won't happen.

Nintendo has both the DS and the Revolution coming up. They've got sony's PSP to compete with-- the hand held market isn't so easy now. And in the console side a desperate microsoft will try and make a bigger push in the market which could seriously hurt Nintendo this time unless they "tie" again or win against Microsft (winning against sony is even a bigger challenge).


IMO making a cuter Cube and waisting money on ads will just confuse consumers on what Nintendo has in store for them and drive away attention from the DS/Revolution.

 

[DCX]

I'll go with the smart mo-fo. Enough ass kicking and he'll start busting his ass too, methinks.

Only if he's faced with failure...he'll never know it til he get's his first F. With Nintendo, they care not where they stand since the 16 bit wars, all they care about is money. MS wants to be number 1 and so does Sony...so did Sega. Nintendo could care less...happy with 3rd or 2nd.

DCX

 

[Mejilan]

I'll opt not to follow your pessimistic outlook, thanks. I can't believe that even 2 years ago I actually still cared who as "number 1". Nintendo may not be rising to the top, but they're not going down the hole either. We've got at least 1 more console and 2 more handhelds coming, so that means at least another 5 or 6 years of Nintendo goodness. I'm not too worried about them, honestly. And... I think this gen has proved one thing. They are SLOWLY getting the point. I think they'll start picking up a bit from hereon in.

 

[AniHawk]

Nintendo should mass-manufacture brain implants like the one I have to make everyone buy a GC and games for it.

 

[Christoff Yurievich]

There's a picture for everything here on GAF...is there one for "every fucking week, I swear" yet?

 

[cvxfreak]

Final Fantasy VII remake
Pokemon Sun Gold/Moon Silver (or something)
Grand Theft Auto: Tokyo
Dragon Quest VI remake

That's pretty much their only hope.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Better marketing and a much heavier emphasis on spotlighting third party games and companies with exclusive, or at least, somewhat exclusive titles. Work on getting a more diverse lineup (meaning less saccharine fare) from developers. Get online and mean it. If all else fails, start new Nintendo-funded brand name to sell less happy-happy joy-joy stuff that is developed internally at NOJ for their own console.

 

[Stuggernaut]

I buy Nintendo consoles every generation just for new Mario & new Zelda games. That's good enough for me.

Last I saw Nintendo was doing pretty good no?? Lots of hype about some upcoming games too.

However...

Despite what I said above, I really do think that they need to get past JUST Mario & Zelda and branch out a lot more. Join up with some major companies and just make a good system.

Oh, and RPGs...wtf happened to them when it came to RPGs...almost as bad as Sega. COme to think of it...the paths are similar

 

[thorns]

Nintendo needs to realize the fact that their franchises are not the mainstream sensation that they were once. You can't keep using the same characters forever. The world has changed a lot since the 80s and so has what people want.

 

[Alcibiades]

Nintendo needs to realize the fact that their franchises are not the mainstream sensation that they were once. You can't keep using the same characters forever. The world has changed a lot since the 80s and so has what people want.

Is that why Super Smash Brothers Melee has entertained rougly 5 million (conservative estimates, BTW) people worldwide?

 

[ourumov]

I don't think the solution to their problems would have been Sony back in 1993...Remember how ended Psygnosys...(sniff !)

Nintendo is big, has a lot of people and has the resources. Just suposing they wanted to leave the console market and re-orientate their products to the ARCADE world, changing trademarks and making new games they not only could do it but they also could be leaders.
Problem ?
-> Lack of internal organization/coordination between teams.
-> Excessive trust in old franchise that don't sell nowadays despite being good or bad.
-> Nintendo fans -> They are stopping the changes Nintendo always wants to do.


Anyways, I don't think the release of a new system it's like starting again from zero. It is a last-generation dependant process and a lot of times is doomed to fail if the last gen has been horrible (lot of examples on console history).
If they want to do something good with revolution, the thing starts with Gamecube itself. If GC doesn't reach 30M userbase then I think Nintendo can say goodbye to home consoles next gen.
Can they gain the confidence of the casual MASS ? -> NO, they can't.
It's all about getting the confidence of niche sectors along with the strong nintendo userbase. Niche sectors ?

- 2D fighting games.
- 2D platfform games.
- DDR/Music games.
- Love Simulation Girls.

It's not about having a couple of them, but about having ALL of them. Then your system becomes the best one for those sectors and they have to buy it.
Pros:
-Buying niche franchises is cheap.
-No advertisement needed. Niche sectors already know where it is what they want.
Cons:
-This strategy has a bit of risk. Niche sectors are composed by hardcore gamers and it's very probable that they already own a GC.

 

[The Promised One]

Nintendo dropped the ball back in the 64 days, and the GC is paying for it.

Maybe Next Gen, but I seriously doubt it. I think Sony will still be in first, but with MS much closer behind. The next N-system (non-handheld) will end up being a hardcore gamers novelty like Sega's last two systems.

 

[nubbe]

Give away a 2 year Playboy subscription with each console

 

[Gchaime]

Basically, it's like school...you got a smart mo-fo who doesn't study and get's As, and you get an average kid who's father donated several billions of dollars to the new school-library to get his son A's...who deserves the most credit? Or should we just say, they are both equal....

DCX

fixed it for you.

 

[thorns]

Is that why Super Smash Brothers Melee has entertained rougly 5 million (conservative estimates, BTW) people worldwide?

It's nothing compared to the 20+ million SMB did, and I should also fix my statement saying it's not a mainstream sensation in the -western- world because apperantly their characters are still quite popular in japan. How much did SMS sell in US again? WW? There was even a Super Mario movie made (as crappy as it is), can you imagine a Super Mario movie being made now?

 

[wazoo]

It's nothing compared to the 20+ million SMB did, and I should also fix my statement saying it's not a mainstream sensation in the -western- world because apperantly their characters are still quite popular in japan. How much did SMS sell in US again? WW? There was even a Super Mario movie made (as crappy as it is), can you imagine a Super Mario movie being made now?

There will be a Metroid movie by John Woo

 

[DCX]

fixed it for you.

LOL Thanks

DCX

 

[ge-man]

Personally, I would really like to see Nintendo finally merge with Bandai and really put their mouth where the money is on the whole toy company thing. Sony and MS console plans are a convergence of their goals for media. There's no vision like that for Nintendo at the moment, and considering their roots I don't expect them to ever truly take on the same set top box mentality.

Truly concentrating on developing a toy maker style might be better in the long. Some people might scoff at, but they can truly form a nice niche for themselves. I think a lot of their problems are also coming from not truly serving a particular group outside of Nintendo fans. They've talked a lot about getting girls and older players, but maybe they should start at square one and make sure they are truly targeting kids, a group they once owned but is now being drawn further and further towards Sony.

 

[Laurent]

They'll have to find a way to generate 1.21 gigawatts of energy into the flux capacitor and travel back to 1993.

Unfortunately, 1.21 gigawatts is insuficient... You would require 2.21 gigwatts to meet BTTF standards!

What's the problem with Nintendo?

1. They're publishing too many crappy games (we don't need Tetra Trackers, Kirby's Air Ride and another Mario Golf).

2. 3rd paty software doesn't sale on their console (http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=6953).

What's exceptional with Nintendo is that people buy GameCube exclusively for Nintendo games. They've bought it for the next Mario, Zelda or Metroid. Nintendo is making "quality games" in the hope of raising the quality of their library, but instead they are driving people away from 3rd party games.

Instead of asking Sega or Namco to create Nintendo games like F-Zero GX and the next Star Fox, they should do the exact oposite. They should dedicate the majority of their internal studios to support technically and artisticly 3rd party games, in exchange of a profit share (and exclusivity). Nintendofans would then be interested in buying 3rd party games since they would include Nintendo name, Nintendo quality, and they would have a lot less Nintendo games to choose against 3rd party.

Nintendo would then found the motivation they need to push the sales of ALL games on their console...

 

[Red Dolphin]

"I will release nes, snes and n64 rehashes on the game-a-cube and charge 30 dollars each and my blind fans will buy a 100k of each in the first month


wahahahah

Don't bring in Opa-Age members GAF please

 

[Red Dolphin]

The problem with the Gamecube is the perception of being inferior too the other consoles becakuse of its price, looks, and even size. For the Revolution, Nintendo needs to match Sony for every major feature, maybe not Blu-Ray, but have HD DVD, and be at the same price level. It's sad that people justify console purchases with a bullet point sheet of all its features.

Also, Revolution must be backwards compatible so all the people who skipped the cube, don't have to miss all the great games, and they need a strong launch perception. They need reggie in the Wal Marts on launch day reinvigorating consumers on Nintendo kicking ass, so people buying feel like they are getting the 'winning console'.

IAWTP.

They still need to finish as stong as possible with GCN because as someone mentioned earlier, starting with a new console isn't always starting with a clean slate.

 

[COCKLES]

Call it the Reggiestation.

The Nintendo name is too much of a liablity. People instantly think 'mushrooms and mario' which isn't the best thing in the day and age of Halo 2 and San Andreas.

 

[SantaC]

Call it the Reggiestation.

The Nintendo name is too much of a liablity. People instantly think 'mushrooms and mario' which isn't the best thing in the day and age of Halo 2 and San Andreas.

plz, mario still sells even though it's not like before.

 

[Red Dolphin]

Call it the Reggiestation.

The Nintendo name is too much of a liablity. People instantly think 'mushrooms and mario' which isn't the best thing in the day and age of Halo 2 and San Andreas.

I agree with that to some extent but the name "Dreamcast" didn't help Sega much.. (Dreamcast was rarely refurred to as "Sega Dreamcast")

 

[border]

This Christmas would have been the time to make a strong, definitive stand against MS.....though I'm not even sure that would have been possible. It reminds me of how people were saying that OOT was going to help "turn around" the N64, when it was probably going to sink either way. Nintendo shouldn't be thinking so much about improving the Cube's standing as they should be concentrating on not losing any more ground. It's pretty strange that the effects of the $99 price have died off, and they're being outsold by a much bigger margin than they were 1 year ago. They need to figure out how to stop the bleeding before they move on to any much larger initiatives for the system.

Most people here have the right idea -- keep the Cube officially alive and on life support, but work like crazy on the next system. Anything with major promise should be shuffled to N5. Nintendo seems to have the same thinking, given that they have clammed up about Mario 128.....which is definitely no longer a GameCube title.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Uh, why should they find or do something drastic? They just have to continue supporting gamecube to the end, and not drop everything or delay every announced titles for 2005 for N revolution. Dropping N64 kinda hurt GC's initial image with gamers, and probably still does with some. Why do you think PS2 sold so well initially? Because it promised to do what playstation did, gamers had a good opinion of the system and were still getting kickass games on it when the ps2 hype was starting up, they were satisfied.

It doesnt garantee success for their next platform, but it certainly helps to satisfy your existing userbase and fans, as they'll likely be looking forward to their next platform if they saw gamecube as a good gaming platform.

RE4, Zelda, Fire emblem, Advance wars, Geist, Virtua quest, Viewtifull joe 2, Killer7, donkey kong jungle beat, phantasy star universe, odama, Animal crossing 2 (?).

A lot that im looking forward to and these are mostly games that were announced in 2004 and got delayed or will be released in japan this year but not in the US till next, so im pretty sure there's still games waiting to be announced for next year.

With these, i can definitely say that i'll be a hell of a lot more happy with my gamecube purchase than i ever was with N64, heck, i sold my n64 not too long after perfect dark's release, i was solely playing on psx. Its also one of the few reasons why i bought gamecube so late, as much as anyone like to point fingers at me for being a nintendo "fanboy", i bought gamecube a full year after PS2 (which i bought during GT3 pack), and half a year after Xbox, another reason is the initial launch didnt impress me and i was in waiting mode to see where it was going.

Seriously, why should nintendo turn things around for gamecube? Gaming wise, im already happy with the lineup they've churned out, and im still looking forward to a lot more gaming in fall and 2005, they got some important 3rd parties onboard and it pretty much saved GC's face, there's still much to do, but i still think that capcom, especially getting massive support from Shinji Mikami was a tour de force. 2 RPGs from Namco, rpgs that bitchslap anything n64 ever had. Getting square to make games on their platforms, ok, not much has happened yet but im still hoping that the relations will go further. Square praising DS and not supporting PSP is a good sign so far for nintendo. And they're making profits, tons of it, they're even the #2 publisher in the world, only after EA.

For gamecube its too late, keep supporting the platform and make your userbase happy and anticipate their next platform is the only thing they can do, for revolution they obviously have some ideas, will it be good or not, its something we'll know next year.

 

[Late Stage Marxist]

It makes sense when you realize that all that kind of information goes in one ear, out the other. It's not negative, so it's all just white noise. Pops and whistles. Clicks and buzzes.

IheartilyAWTP

 

[seismologist]

The only way to compete with Sony is if they're willing to lose alot of money.

Then they can do like Microsoft and buy alot of exclusives. Look at how many 3rd party exclusives Microsoft bought this gen.
Nintendo is so cheap they can't even hang on to Viewtiful Joe.

If they're not going to buy the exclusives they need then they need to start making them themselves.

 

[DCX]

The only way to compete with Sony is if they're willing to lose alot of money.

Then they can do like Microsoft and buy alot of exclusives. Look at how many 3rd party exclusives Microsoft bought this gen.
Nintendo is so cheap they can't even hang on to Viewtiful Joe.

If they're not going to buy the exclusives they need then they need to start making them themselves.

Exclusives?? They have the best exclusives! Mario, Donkey Kong, Metriod, Zelda, Pokemon, Wave Race, Piliot Wings, and Resident Evil for Gamecube. They had Final Fantasy and fumbled that...had Capcom in thier pocket for the most part and screwed that up...it's funny i think Sega is thier best third party this gen!

DCX

 

[jarrod]

It's nothing compared to the 20+ million SMB did, and I should also fix my statement saying it's not a mainstream sensation in the -western- world because apperantly their characters are still quite popular in japan. How much did SMS sell in US again? WW? There was even a Super Mario movie made (as crappy as it is), can you imagine a Super Mario movie being made now?

In the US alone SSBM managed about 2.5 million, TWW is at 1.5 million (before any price drops). Not too bad for either really, Nintendo games benefit from having strong pull in every region.

It reminds me of how people were saying that OOT was going to help "turn around" the N64, when it was probably going to sink either way.

In the US market, N64 didn't need "turning around"... it had roughly 40-45% market share from 1996 to 2000 and sold over 20 million units. It was Japan cheifly where N64 faltered.

 

[teh_pwn]

Go back a few years, release it in 2000 with online support and good 3rd party support (Square Enix, Namco, Capcom, Sega, EA, etc) and real DVDs, not the small kind, and have DVD support standard with Panasonic. Have Mario and Metroid Prime at launch. Not sell Rare.

That would have at least killed off half of Xbox's marketshare, but PS2 still would have won out.

But these are what ifs...

 

[radcliff]

I doubt they ever imagined backing out of the agreement with Sony would lead to what PlayStation became.

It wasn't Nintendo ditching Sony that led to their downfall, it was stibbornly sticking with the cartridge format for the N64. It was this that led Square to develop FFVII for the PSX which led to a snowball effect that had other major Japanese 3rd parties, especially Enix, abandon Nintendo. No Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest = defeat in Japan = less Japenese 3rd party support= less major franchises on the system = less sales worldwide. The lack of foresight comment was right, but I think the error was the whole cartridge thing and not the abandoning Sony thing.

 

[Fatghost]

Nintendo does too need saving, look at their anemic software sales for both gamecube and GBA. Just look at how poorly the last zelda game sold, it's down to what 10k a month now? While halo has 100k a month and it's 3 years old.

Sometimes i wonder how big their install base really is, once you count out all the people that bought cubes in the beginning and after the initial disappointment either ebayed them to mexicans or just let their cube sit in a closet and gather dust like every single person i know who owns one has.

Really now think about it. we've all heard the countless stories of people who bought a cube for some overhyped game like zelda or REmake or something and just got rid of it because there's nothing else to play.

Interesting point. I bought my cube when REMake came out, and still play the cube occasionally, and it stays hooked up to my TV for the most part (it shares a connection with my DC). But I buy much more software for PS2 and Xbox. All the GC sees are Nintendo first and 2nd party games and the occasional 3rd party exclusive. My GC library is about 1/4 the size of my PS2 library and 1/2 the size of my Xbox Library.

I wonder how many GC owners have their GC as a primary system, compared to how many bought it just for one particular game/franchise.

 

[jarrod]

Since when are GBA sales "anemic"? There's more million sellers on GBA than GC & XBox combined, not to mention Pokemon RuSa being the best selling game this generation (at over 13 million now).

 

[signet]

What can Nintendo do to turn around the Gamecube?

Drop game prices to $29.99 for new releases. That would work just fine.

 

[Hournda]

The problem with the Gamecube is that people only buy it for the Nintendo games (Mario, Zelda, Metroid, etc.) and the number of people who are fans of those games has been steadily decreasing ever since the NES days. So with the N5/Revolution/whatever it's going to be called if they keep up the N64/GC pattern they'll sell less consoles and games and with each further iteration of their console it'll be less and less until finally they go out of business or 3rd party. Plus the fact that the Gamecube looks like a pussy console but it's mostly the games.

 

[Wellington]

As a fan of all games, I still own more games for my GC than my Xbox, but I haven't bought a GC game in quite some time. Maybe it's my fault for having an Xbox and a PS2 (and a PC for games that go to that as well) for third party games. I tend not to buy GC games that aren't first or second party Nintendo games or high profile exclusives and there hasn't been one of those in a long time. I had a lot more N64 games at this point in that system's life than I have GC games. For next generation I would like more Nintendo games.