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[Stop It]

For people to complain about it.

How come the price of butter went up almost twofold? Reeeeeeee damn the EU for reasons.

When?

Milk, and thus butter, SMP, Cheese etc experienced a crash after EU quotas were abolished. They're only just recovering to about par on a 5 year average basis.

The markets, rather than EU rules should dictate supply and demand of commodities. The quotas were market distortion and for every country it helped, it hindered another.

 

[Geeker]

For the Erasmus Orgasmus program. Best damn time of my life

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

There are basically several purposes:
1. European nations on their own are too small and insignificant to stay relevant in the global economy for decades to comes. This was obviously back in the 60s and its even more true today. Thats the reason for the economic Union. Only a united Europe has a weight in world economy.

2. The EU is also a value union and a construct thats supposed to ensure peace on a continent that rarely has seen continuous decades of peace in the recent millennia.

3. It was clear that the future will hold many challenges that go far beyond the national scale. The EU is supposed to be a international institution that finds solutions for problems of international scope.


The EU is supposed to be a institution of democracy, federalism, anti-nationalism, liberal western values and transnational solidarity.


Its not without its flaws but I think its one of the greatest democratic institutions to ever exist.

 

[Chittagong]

Peaceful subordination of smaller European countries under German federate leadership.

 

[Maedre]

Peaceful subordination of smaller European countries under German federate leadership.

oh come on...

 

[Ac30]

oh come on...

They have one vote in the council and 96 MEPs, total control.

It's rather funny to me that Thatcher was adamant about the UK's ascension to the EEC in order to counter Germany's might, and now they've dipped out, leaving France as the only counterweight. If anything the EU serves as a check on Germany's might, since EU law/ECJ rulings take precedence over state law.

Besides, the arrangement is very beneficial for us small countries too, Belgium gets a seat at the big boy's table with just as much voting power in the EU's executive as the rest of them.

 

[Jasup]

This educational video explains the purpose of the EU (at the time called EEC).

Forgot to mention earlier that Yes, Minister! is a documentary.

We went in to screw the French by splitting them off from the Germans

And look what happened after the brexit vote. France and Germany are moving towards strenghtening their cooperation and eventually making the two-speed EU a reality.

 

[wazoo]

Interesting. So I guess the UN at the time wasnt enough to ensure peace between France and Germany..

Before UN we had the Society of Nations. it did not prevent WW2. There was no reason at that time to think UN would be very different.

 

[Crayolan]

Peace. When countries are more economically and culturally integrated, they are far less likely to go to war. No one wants another World War II.

The situation in Myanmar has nothing to do with the EU.

Interesting. So I guess the UN at the time wasnt enough to ensure peace between France and Germany..

The version of the UN which existed between World War I and II, the League of Nations, didn't really do anything. Without the USA to bring legitimacy to the league no one took it seriously and in retrospect it's not surprising that it collapsed before long.

 

[CyclopsRock]

IMO people overstate the importance of the EU in maintaining peace. It's definitely helped in the sense that economic ties always make going to war more "costly", but the march of globalisation has been the story of the 2nd half of the 20th century across the whole world, not just the EU. Furthermore I think that first and foremost the main reason for the peaceful era in Europe is American military hegemony - even now, in 2017 there are about 100,000 US troops stationed in Europe - the dominance of NATO and the common threat of the Warsaw Pact nations were far more important than the gradual formation of the EU.

 

[PillarEN]

When?

Milk, and thus butter, SMP, Cheese etc experienced a crash after EU quotas were abolished. They're only just recovering to about par on a 5 year average basis.

The markets, rather than EU rules should dictate supply and demand of commodities. The quotas were market distortion and for every country it helped, it hindered another.

It's sort of an ongoing joke here in CZ the last couple months. Lots of the retired people throwing a hissy fit. Fights in grocery stores.

Butter used to be about 33 kc. Now it's about 55 kc. Dark dark times lol.

 

[Man with Knife]

EU is just a huge mess and it will fall sooner or later.

You wish

 

[PJV3]

IMO people overstate the importance of the EU in maintaining peace. It's definitely helped in the sense that economic ties always make going to war more "costly", but the march of globalisation has been the story of the 2nd half of the 20th century across the whole world, not just the EU. Furthermore I think that first and foremost the main reason for the peaceful era in Europe is American military hegemony - even now, in 2017 there are about 100,000 US troops stationed in Europe - the dominance of NATO and the common threat of the Warsaw Pact nations were far more important than the gradual formation of the EU.

I think people understate the importance of political will to share power and to cooperate, it's a bit chicken and egg when it comes to European cooperation. People get hung up on the structure of the EU, and not the end of country's behaving like the UK currently is.

 

[Princess Magnificent]

So, it actually was in pretty much everyone’s interest for the EU to develop as it did (especially with NATO effectively being the EU’s military).

I always thought of NATO as more of the US's backup dancers. Like the USA are Katy Perry, and NATO is the shark dancing behind and to the left of her.

 

[ClosingADoor]

IMO people overstate the importance of the EU in maintaining peace. It's definitely helped in the sense that economic ties always make going to war more "costly", but the march of globalisation has been the story of the 2nd half of the 20th century across the whole world, not just the EU. Furthermore I think that first and foremost the main reason for the peaceful era in Europe is American military hegemony - even now, in 2017 there are about 100,000 US troops stationed in Europe - the dominance of NATO and the common threat of the Warsaw Pact nations were far more important than the gradual formation of the EU.

The Cold War did help in that sense to prevent wars. But the EU was started with the specific goal of stopping European countries itself from fighting, mainly France and Germany. And that worked pretty well over time. If those two got into some serious issues again, America wouldn't matter that much, since who are they going to back?

 

[AmFreak]

The Cold War did help in that sense to prevent wars. But the EU was started with the specific goal of stopping European countries itself from fighting, mainly France and Germany. And that worked pretty well over time. If those two got into some serious issues again, America wouldn't matter that much, since who are they going to back?

There are like a million reasons outside of the EU preventing another war between Germany and France.
The EU also wouldn't have stopped Nazi Germany from going to war.

 

[Stinkles]

To regulate Sausage shapes.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Trade, market regulation and to build toward a better life for its citizens.

It's one of the best things to come from the awful 20th Century.

 

[LostCaress]

War and war and war and war and war for all of Europe's history and finally we start to work together. That's the EU.

 

[Hippopuncher12]

For nerds who need more than the movies.

lol, exactly why I came into the thread. Read a couple of posts, and just went...oh....uhhhh nevermind.

 

[PJV3]

There are like a million reasons outside of the EU preventing another war between Germany and France.
The EU also wouldn't have stopped Nazi Germany from going to war.

If Germany had been prepared to pool sovereignty with other European countries I can't see Hitler being the leader to start one.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Translators gotta eat

 

[Chev]

and Swiss for example doesn't have an army at all.

Not only does Switzerland have an army, with male citizens more or less required to go through military service, it also isn't part of the EU.

 

[ClosingADoor]

There are like a million reasons outside of the EU preventing another war between Germany and France.
The EU also wouldn't have stopped Nazi Germany from going to war.

Maybe, but the ECSC was literally started for this purpose. To prevent Germany and France from even gaining the possibility to start a war. That kicked off the whole process of European integration to what the EU is today.

 

[Art Teitlebaum]

We were tired of building up these:

By doing trade with each other we formed common interests.
By ignoring social and labour standards we alienated a growing part of our people from this idea.

 

[Dan1984uk]

It's an economic arrangement mostly and also to keep Europe from fighting each other and starting another World War. It's been pretty successful so far.

Of course, some right wingers (including my girlfriend's parents for some reason) believe that the goal of the EU is to create a European Superstate, which is obviously bullshit because there is no way that would ever work and no one is stupid enough to even try to enforce something like that, but it's the core argument right wing politicians use for claiming the EU has failed and has to be destroyed.

It is not just right wingers also the hard left in the UK are also against the EU people like the late Tony Benn was hard left and wanted the UK out of the EU.

 

[SlickShoes]

Not only does Switzerland have an army, with male citizens more or less required to go through military service, it also isn't part of the EU.

I’m moving there next week and it’s a country that is prepared to defend itself should anything kick off. The building I am moving into has a basement that is a nuclear safe bunker, they have enough of those for the entire population of the country.

 

[Pancake Mix]

The EU won't last in the long run unless it federalizes and prohibits member states from leaving.

You're just full of bad ideas.

Before UN we had the Society of Nations. it did not prevent WW2. There was no reason at that time to think UN would be very different.

League of Nations in English.

 

[CyclopsRock]

The Cold War did help in that sense to prevent wars. But the EU was started with the specific goal of stopping European countries itself from fighting, mainly France and Germany. And that worked pretty well over time. If those two got into some serious issues again, America wouldn't matter that much, since who are they going to back?

The specific goal? I mean the EU itself didn't start til less than 30 years ago, and I think it's hard to argue that the origins of the common market started *specifically* to stop wars. And the point re: America isn't that they would back one side over another, but rather their power and presence stops the countries of Europe having large armies in the first place.

 

[daviyoung]

It's there to annoy the British. No other purpose for it.

 

[KillerMan91]

IMO people overstate the importance of the EU in maintaining peace. It's definitely helped in the sense that economic ties always make going to war more "costly", but the march of globalisation has been the story of the 2nd half of the 20th century across the whole world, not just the EU. Furthermore I think that first and foremost the main reason for the peaceful era in Europe is American military hegemony - even now, in 2017 there are about 100,000 US troops stationed in Europe - the dominance of NATO and the common threat of the Warsaw Pact nations were far more important than the gradual formation of the EU.

People may overstate the importance of EU in terms of managing the peace itself but EU has been factor in greatly improving relations between European countries that in long run prevents wars between European powers even without external factors (NATO, american military dominance etc). Germany and France are best pals nowadays with citizens in both countries trusting each other with very high margins in polls. Compare that to relations in Asia between countries like Japan and South Korea and the difference is huge.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

What is the true purpose of the E.U.?

So the Germans can score an Economic Victory since they keep failing at a Domination Victory.

 

[Kimawolf]

So bringing this discussion to something happening right now. If the E.U. is all of Europes financial might could they impose sanctions on the U.S for violating this Iran deal?

 

[RoyalFool]

A bunch of unelected and unaudited officials who somehow managed to take over half of Europe with the promise of good trade deals, and now want an army to protect their illegitimate rule whilst they blackmail major corporations into giving them billions

 

[Feffe]

The long term aim of EU should be build a federal European state. There are some major problems thought:
- European citizens don't really "feel" to be European, they are first and foremost French, German, Italian and so on. There isn't a cultural base to build an European state (yet, I think this problem will be solved when they younger generation, grown with Project Erasmus, will have power).
- As a result, even thought there wasn't a major war in Western Europe since WW2, countries still act indipendently and have been played (and still are playing ) "economic wars", so-to-speak.
- In the past some countries joined the EU even thought they had many economic problems (Cyprus, Romania, Bulgaria) or they didn't really solve them structurally but "hid" them in the short them (Greece, Italy).
- People in power aren't elected directly by the people. The EU feels like a byzantine organization run by bureaucrats.
- Even major countries have been different economy: a week currency is good for Italy but bad for Germany, for example.

I really hope in the future we'll start act more like you single, big nation. I really hope EU will be reorganized because the alternative is seeing it being disbanded and I don't want to think about it the consequences of that.

 

[Crayolan]

So bringing this discussion to something happening right now. If the E.U. is all of Europes financial might could they impose sanctions on the U.S for violating this Iran deal?

In theory, yes? But that would never happen in reality.

 

[MonsterHunter]

China would not allow an EU peacekeeping force (or US for that matter) set foot in Myanmar

 

[Fatalah]

I was taught the EU was mainly created for economic gain, to simplify trade law between countries.

 

[MonsterHunter]

A bunch of unelected and unaudited officials who somehow managed to take over half of Europe with the promise of good trade deals, and now want an army to protect their illegitimate rule whilst they blackmail major corporations into giving them billions

Elections to the European Parliament take place every five years. 163.5 million votes were cast in 2014.
Any future EU army would come about because every EU member state had ratified it.
Poor innocent mega-corporations being fined in a court of law for anti-competitive actions, hurting consumers and outright tax cheating is not blackmail.

 

[Ryouji Gunblade]

I was expecting an Expanded Universe thread.

Pretty sure the trade deals are where it's at.

 

[danthefan]

The UN was formed for Peace purposes in 1945.

The EU was formed for economical purposes three decades later, and that entity has evolved politically since then.

The EEC, which is what the EU grew out of, was formed in 1957.


I see people on this forum and elsewhere refer to Europe and the EU as some homogeneous place all the time, but while I'm certainly pro-EU I'm very much a citizen of my country first and the EU second, I would say most Europeans are the same. Having said that I see Brexit as a huge concern and I really really wish they'd voted to remain. As has been pointed out many times in the thread the EU was set up to stop wars in continental Europe and one of the best ways to not go to war with someone is to trade with them. It's not based on foreign policy, it isn't a country like the US is, it doesn't have an army.

Peaceful subordination of smaller European countries under German federate leadership.

I for one welcome my new German overlords.

 

[MAtgS]

To be declared non-canon by Disney.

 

[Dazza]

I would have thought that preventing this horrors would fall on the UN before we got to the EU.

North Korea has been throwing babies into fires for decades. No one cares and it was put into the too hard basket, and action will only be taken when North Korea attacks first.

Horrible atrocities have been going on in Africa for decades, and again no one cares. No one would have stopped Hitler killing millions of Jews if he didn't launch wars of aggression against his neighbours.

The sooner you learn the world is governed by self interest above all you'll realise why certain things happen.

Yep, so true of the US or any other world power interventions. Maybe if Myanmar had large oil reserves or you had a run a large pipeline through it or you someone wanted to install some military presence there to counter a larger power a country would step in and overthrow the government

 

[Connificent]

 

[DKehoe]

Why are you necro-ing this?

 

[EviLore]

Why are you necro-ing this?

A spambot did, I deleted the post to fix, then our comrade inadvertently re-necroed moments later

 

[Bojji]