What is the true purpose of the E.U.?
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It was peace.
Which at the heart of it boiled down to disincentivising German military aggression and allowing non violent avenues to expand their influence over Europe.
More recently it has taken on the purpose of insulating corporatism and left wing social policy from democratic pressures.
Which at the heart of it boiled down to disincentivising German military aggression and allowing non violent avenues to expand their influence over Europe.
More recently it has taken on the purpose of insulating corporatism and left wing social policy from democratic pressures.
Leyasu
Banned
It's on their fucking doorstep. They stood by whilst genocide was being committed.
This is some trip.
Lol. After the catastrophic events in WW2, America invested much time and effort into helping Europe get back on its feet... plus they pretty much singlehandedly guaranteed Europe's liberty from the Soviet union. To think that they would have stood by and let another European power rise to prominence and start another European war is niave to say the least.
Almost all of the Jews killed in the Holocaust lived outside of German borders. Killing that many Jews necessitated waging wars of aggression and expansion.
fabricated backlash
Member
We are living in the single longest time span without war on the central European continent ever.
The tight integration of European economies is what finally gave a workable solution to secure peace on a theater of war that often ravaged whole sections of the continent.
The EU is part of that effort and it's latest evolution to keep peace. As the programs that preceded it, it will have to keep evolving, especially in the face of the resurgence of war mongering, racism and hyper nationalism in Europe.
I feel the current EU is I'll equipped to curb stomp these cancerous developments and needs to be evolved even further to stave off, us falling back to the dark pits of nationalism and it's twin sibling racism.
Lol. Daily Mail much?
The EU is mostly just an economic union and is not in a position to entertain the mantle of The World Policemen. If anything, EU foreign policy is extremely conservative and avoids direct military action at all costs.
A lack of/ineffectual action by the EU during the Yugoslav wars is one of the EUs biggest black marks against it. It had a challenge and promptly failed.
The old saying is true:
NATO was a way to keep the Americans in, the Soviets out and the Germans down.
A lack of/ineffectual action by the EU during the Yugoslav wars is one of the EUs biggest black marks against it. It had a challenge and promptly failed.
The old saying is true:
NATO was a way to keep the Americans in, the Soviets out and the Germans down.
To bring in sync a large group of small countries who each had their own regulations, economies, currency, customs, tax system etc. The EU tries to bring unity in all of these areas between its members
Actually quite happy with the system, my world feels a lot bigger than it used to.
Actually quite happy with the system, my world feels a lot bigger than it used to.
Alx
Member
Not saying that it was handled as it should have, only that the war-preventing purpose of the EU does not cover external countries. It's meant to prevent wars among members, and that it did. That there are still wars happening outside of it is another issue.
Iriscomeback
Member
Peace.
It's working pretty well in that regard.
It's working pretty well in that regard.
Leyasu
Banned
Ofcourse, if the EU was anything more than an eonomic/political institution, then they might have done something.
Right or wrong, it just winds me up when I see people trumpeting the EU as the reason why there hasn't been any wars within the EU borders. Yet totally forgetting the American influence on this period of stability.
But it is cool to criticise or forget america when you don't have any further need of their military might when there are not any enemies at the gate.
As has been said many times it started as a process of economic integration between historically waring nations to prevent future wars.
At its core it's a multilateral trade agreement between sovereign nations.
EU has some superstate elements, but they're not all reaching but are really concentrated on the working of the single market. For example because you can freely export goods and services within the single market, you need a common regulatory framework for them. Same goes for labour policies, farm subsidies, foreign policy etc. It's about trying to keep the playing field level in that no country within the EU can use national policies to take an advantage over others - or rather nations fear that others might do that and act accordingly.
In political sense it's a mishmash of national interests, common EU interests and citizen interests and it's frustrating and glorious.
At its core it's a multilateral trade agreement between sovereign nations.
EU has some superstate elements, but they're not all reaching but are really concentrated on the working of the single market. For example because you can freely export goods and services within the single market, you need a common regulatory framework for them. Same goes for labour policies, farm subsidies, foreign policy etc. It's about trying to keep the playing field level in that no country within the EU can use national policies to take an advantage over others - or rather nations fear that others might do that and act accordingly.
In political sense it's a mishmash of national interests, common EU interests and citizen interests and it's frustrating and glorious.
It's an economic arrangement mostly and also to keep Europe from fighting each other and starting another World War. It's been pretty successful so far.
Of course, some right wingers (including my girlfriend's parents for some reason) believe that the goal of the EU is to create a European Superstate, which is obviously bullshit because there is no way that would ever work and no one is stupid enough to even try to enforce something like that, but it's the core argument right wing politicians use for claiming the EU has failed and has to be destroyed.
Of course, some right wingers (including my girlfriend's parents for some reason) believe that the goal of the EU is to create a European Superstate, which is obviously bullshit because there is no way that would ever work and no one is stupid enough to even try to enforce something like that, but it's the core argument right wing politicians use for claiming the EU has failed and has to be destroyed.
Alx
Member
EU is an evolution of the European Economic Community, which was an evolution of the Coal and Steel Community (1950). The Coal and Steel Community was explicitly created to make wars between France and Germany impossible.
The economical aspects are a mean to an end, which is peace.
I would like to point out that the founding fathers of the EU did intend for the EU to become a federalised state at some point.
However that would only come about democratically and would never be forced upon any of the EU nations.
Maedre
Banned
Look at our history. We hated franco for so long and now I would say that they are our biggest ally.
Peace is good for everyone, war only for the very few that can monetize it.
That is part what pisses me off listening to anti-EU rhetoric. They say we would be better off as singular nations again like it was somehow great before, but many of these people have never lived in a time before the EU, or bothered to read history, and have no clue how Europe was before that. They fail to see that thanks to EU programs Europe is now a superpower through cooperation, being one of the most advanced economic and scientific powers in the world.
It isn't perfect, but it is damn good to develop on instead of shutting down. And I definitely agree that we need to develop harsher programs to stomp out the nationalism that is growing across Europe. The EU hit one crisis with the refugees and suddenly everyone thinks it is garbage and needs to be disbanded, it's called a bloody crisis for a reason, fuck if these same people are hit with a goddamn hurricane, they would immediately turn into Mad Max motor cults.
ClosingADoor
Member
Peace through economic integration so we don't start shooting each other again. If you make money of the guy on the other side of the border, you don't need to start shit, because you are already profiting.
Alx
Member
Well to be fair the UN was brand new at the time, so there was no way of knowing how effective it would be. Also a similar institution was created after WWI (League of Nations) and it didn't prevent WWII, so better safe than sorry.
Also it makes sense to act at the root of the issue (access to resources like coal and steel), which prevents tensions between countries, while the UN is meant to handle situations when those tensions already occur.
KarneeKarnay
Member
Originally it was a trade zone that was designed to make it so that any European nation could not achieve a level of power similar to WW2. Any nation that was would be strangled economically by the EU.
Now it's changed. It might not be official, but a lot of people including myself, consider the EU to be the best chance of uniting the European continent. By tying us all together economically you're slowly creating an environment for an actual European Union of nations.
I don't think it will happen in out life time, but it's a start.
Now it's changed. It might not be official, but a lot of people including myself, consider the EU to be the best chance of uniting the European continent. By tying us all together economically you're slowly creating an environment for an actual European Union of nations.
I don't think it will happen in out life time, but it's a start.
The EU was created to stop the nationalist cycles that led to the Napoleonic wars, world war 1 and 2 and countless wars before that.
It was a way to create economic development, interdependence rather than straight competition, and friendship between long time rivals.
While Brexit shows the Union isn't perfect, and the Greek crisis was handled badly, the fact is that crises used to be dealt with weapons in Europe until the EU was created, now they're dealt with by words.
Long may that continue, no matter the political wrangling within the EU over the future of the project.
It was a way to create economic development, interdependence rather than straight competition, and friendship between long time rivals.
While Brexit shows the Union isn't perfect, and the Greek crisis was handled badly, the fact is that crises used to be dealt with weapons in Europe until the EU was created, now they're dealt with by words.
Long may that continue, no matter the political wrangling within the EU over the future of the project.
One thing that hasnt been mentioned is food security. There was a Europe wide famine immediately after WW2 due to...well, their having been a war. While its a clusterfuck of a policy, one of the purposes of the CAP is to ensure a good supply across the continent.
European security & peace through ever close union is the long term aim. Arguably the EU is a realisation of Charlemagnes dream, but it also carries in its structure the monarchical forms of authority with the parliament playing second fiddle to the technocrats of the Commision - which is where the democratic deficit can be found.
European security & peace through ever close union is the long term aim. Arguably the EU is a realisation of Charlemagnes dream, but it also carries in its structure the monarchical forms of authority with the parliament playing second fiddle to the technocrats of the Commision - which is where the democratic deficit can be found.
sechsterangriff
Member
There's the same "democratic deficit" for every indirectly elected position.
1st objective : peace.
Second objective : create a strong economic block in a world where small countries lack power against giants like the US, China or India.
Third objective : piss off nationalists and extremists.
also the kurzgesagt video about EU is pretty good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxutY7ss1v4
Second objective : create a strong economic block in a world where small countries lack power against giants like the US, China or India.
Third objective : piss off nationalists and extremists.
also the kurzgesagt video about EU is pretty good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxutY7ss1v4
Ravensmash
Member
Lol
Can't help but read the title as though it's on the front of a pro-leave leaflet during the Brexit campaign.
What is the true
purpose of the EU?
*list of terrifying unfounded claims*
Can't help but read the title as though it's on the front of a pro-leave leaflet during the Brexit campaign.
What is the true
Code:
*list of terrifying unfounded claims*
BrassDragon
Member
To keep us in check - without it, the Dutch would just march their clogs all over the continent.
Real answer: peaceful coexistence through shared economic interest.
The main purpose of the EU is to hold back the British economy, and to prevent us from regaining the greatness of the British Empire. It does this by denying us the God-given right to make our own laws, and flooding the country with feckless immigrants who come over here, steal our jobs, and live off benefits.
Apparently.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
A bigger table for elitists to further slide their feet under!
Camp Freddie
Member
One reason was to establish a European power independent of the two cold war superpowers. As individual nations we were just "possible nuke target" in the power games between the USA and USSR.
By forming our own power block, we could avoid becoming a pawn of the USA in the same way that the Eastern Bloc powers were pawns of the USSR.
This also suited the USA, who were worried that the iron curtain would creep westward if western europe became divided. A strong united ally was better than a bunch of arguing client-states. If the UK and France got into a trade war with Germany, would they really object if Russia decided to annex West Berlin?
NATO was the most important part of the cold-war peace, but the EU was needed for the socio-economic side. Previous European wars have shown that military pacts alone can't prevent war.
By forming our own power block, we could avoid becoming a pawn of the USA in the same way that the Eastern Bloc powers were pawns of the USSR.
This also suited the USA, who were worried that the iron curtain would creep westward if western europe became divided. A strong united ally was better than a bunch of arguing client-states. If the UK and France got into a trade war with Germany, would they really object if Russia decided to annex West Berlin?
NATO was the most important part of the cold-war peace, but the EU was needed for the socio-economic side. Previous European wars have shown that military pacts alone can't prevent war.
fabricated backlash
Member
The EU has proven time and time again how flexible it is during times of crisis. The groundwork the EU provides makes cross country measures and policy a rather painless process. Are these measures and policies perfect and can make everyone happy? No, of course not, and I'd argue that only absolute idiots would expect that. Democracy is the art of compromise and a constant work in progress. The EU is one of the biggest achievements in overcoming the ghosts of the 18th and 19th century, but in its current state, it's not enough to abolish nationalism, isolationism and racism yet.
Only an absolute moron would throw away the achievements made through the EU by regressing to single nation states. But at the same time only a moron would think that the EU in its current state is anything but a stepping stone towards a better future.
it's just Germany's latest ploy to take over the world
I keed, it was meant to prevent military conflicts between major European powers in the past and mostly functions as a huge trading bloc nowadays that uses the influence of the combined markets and economic power of it's member states on the global stage
I keed, it was meant to prevent military conflicts between major European powers in the past and mostly functions as a huge trading bloc nowadays that uses the influence of the combined markets and economic power of it's member states on the global stage
To integrate European economies with each other so that they would never go to war again knowing that they were all highly interdependent on each other.
And I'm confused as to why OP believes any country or political entity needs to be the 'world police' or 'peace keeper'. There is a world order indeed, but Myanmar's problems are its own problems, and it is within their jurisdiction and their own sovereign right to solve it themselves. There may however be an international outcry and overall consensus that what they are doing is wrong, but sending soldiers isn't the right way about it. Look at what the US has done and its negative image abroad. What they do may seem to be morally right, but their actions completely infringe upon a nation's right to self rule.
And I'm confused as to why OP believes any country or political entity needs to be the 'world police' or 'peace keeper'. There is a world order indeed, but Myanmar's problems are its own problems, and it is within their jurisdiction and their own sovereign right to solve it themselves. There may however be an international outcry and overall consensus that what they are doing is wrong, but sending soldiers isn't the right way about it. Look at what the US has done and its negative image abroad. What they do may seem to be morally right, but their actions completely infringe upon a nation's right to self rule.
The CAP is a monumentally bad solution to a legitimate problem. Frankly, it was wasn't for it, the case for Brexit would have been completely smashed yet.
An onerous, money wasting merry go round that benefits an industry hell bent on finding ways to ignore economic reality. The social gains from food security should not be an excuse for subsidising crop production with little benefit to the countryside, consumers or anyone other than the farm business.
That's before we go into history of production based subsidies that were even worse.
As someone who does not want the UK to leave the EU, the CAP us my biggest frustration with the EU and appears to be a sacred cow, which doesn't help.
StrategyFan
Member
so this is what the defense force for genocide looks like
fabricated backlash
Member
Agreed. As I see it, a more modern EU will also need to have a more fair distribution of subsidies AND responsibilities. The biggest single strength of the EU is it's cultural and economic diversity. It cannot allow these strengths to go to waste by keeping outdated regulations just to satisfy a single country or lobby.
this is a terrible, terrible attitude
"Serbia's problems (with Kosovo) are it's own problems, and it's within their own sovereign right to solve it themselves"
you're giving countries a free pass to commit genocides and other atrocities
interventions stops massacres. Though I'll admit that many military interventions since the end of WW2 have failed, particularly in the Middle East and North Africa. Guerilla warfare and resistance from at least a significant part of the local populace lead to endless "unwinable" conflicts, and the West has become war weary because of it
GrizzleBoy
Banned
Seriously.
All you have to do is look to see what the Purpose is.
You might as well ask what the "true purpose" of a hospital, besides the quite obvious things that hospitals do.
One of the biggest searches after brexit was along the lines what is the eu or purposes
dripdripsplash
Member
Before the EU, there was countless of wars. The idea of the European Union is that closely linking the countries to each other economically will decrease the chance of war happening again.
It has been a major success in that matter.
lol
It has been a major success in that matter.
lol
Europe is a continent full of small countries with very established and varied cultures that are incredibly different - rooted by thousands of years of human history. Naturally, all these cultures (with different languages even) confined in such a tiny space are bound to have divergence, and eventually war.
The EU is an organisation that unites these cultures by giving them a shared economic goal, and unites these people by giving them freedom of movement - which is the only way you can have a sense of family.
And it works, I'm from Portugal and I feel like I'm from the EU, I can go and live anywhere and it feels united. I'm living in the UK and leaving the EU is incredibly saddening to me, because I belong to Europe, this feels like I'm being forced away - and it's making me think of coming back.
The EU is an organisation that unites these cultures by giving them a shared economic goal, and unites these people by giving them freedom of movement - which is the only way you can have a sense of family.
And it works, I'm from Portugal and I feel like I'm from the EU, I can go and live anywhere and it feels united. I'm living in the UK and leaving the EU is incredibly saddening to me, because I belong to Europe, this feels like I'm being forced away - and it's making me think of coming back.
Id like to add that the EU having different views and opinions also suited the Soviet Union at the time.
The Soviets encouraged increased Western-European ties as they noted that the Europeans were much more hesitant to take an active role in world politics and wished to divide NATO (even if it was partially).
So, it actually was in pretty much everyones interest for the EU to develop as it did (especially with NATO effectively being the EUs military).
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