GeekyDad
Member
Looks like Iron Man couldn't handle the logic that, though Andy subjectively likes the state of the economy, he knows objectively it sucks.
And yeah, what he says.
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What is your perception of the economy right now?
- Thread starter DanteFox
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And yeah, what he says.
Mr1999
Gold Member
Like most on here, I feel that things have been pushed too far, and I'm not sure how much longer it can last. Prices are going up and it seems like some are taking advantage of the situation and just making it worse. You are expected to pay more now, its just how it is, and others just parrot this slogan and make things trend upward.
Job market right also seems a bit crazy. I review jobs on indeed and ziprecruiter, comparing it to prior years, it's clear that there are many more people competing for the same jobs than there used to be. Sometimes 3x more than I saw last year and its consistent, on average its twice as many people competing for the same positions.
The immigration issue isn't helping the situation either. I don't understand, if A.I. is going to make jobs less abundant, why are we allowing more people to enter. I lack confidence in what the government communicates about anything at this point, no matter who is in there, they will misrepresent the situation, so I don't have faith in any of them now. I don't trust them. You can bs people for so long until your word and reputation is underwater.
Job market right also seems a bit crazy. I review jobs on indeed and ziprecruiter, comparing it to prior years, it's clear that there are many more people competing for the same jobs than there used to be. Sometimes 3x more than I saw last year and its consistent, on average its twice as many people competing for the same positions.
The immigration issue isn't helping the situation either. I don't understand, if A.I. is going to make jobs less abundant, why are we allowing more people to enter. I lack confidence in what the government communicates about anything at this point, no matter who is in there, they will misrepresent the situation, so I don't have faith in any of them now. I don't trust them. You can bs people for so long until your word and reputation is underwater.
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OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
If you already have a home and are doing well otherwise it's fine. If you don't then you're in some real pretty shit. Good luck getting a home now or even a used car for a reasonable price. It's fucked to hell and back.
TheAtomicPile
Member
I don't know that I'll be able to call it "good" until something drastic happens with housing (either naturally or via intervention).
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
It's mixed in the US.
For the wealthy the economy is GREAT! Artificially raised prices when we were in the throes of inflation and created shrinkflation. The prices are STILL the same as inflation has leveled off, proving it wasn't inflation driving these prices. The stock market is sky high and these investors, brokerage firms, etc are living high off the hog.
Winner: ultra rich corporations.
If you have a job, times are hard. You may have had to get a second job to make ends meet or you can't even FIND a job you are "qualified for" and can't afford to get further into debt by going back to school to get a degree or certification. Wages have barely increased for the average worker... And if they did, health benefits from your job, taxes and 401k getting taken out of your check makes it seem like you never got that raise! Even if you work overtime, it's barely little more than pre-raise after everything is taken out. Not to mention that certain companies will work you to the bone with overtime and very little rest. You have to spend a lot of money paying rent which has gone up A LOT year over year. Apartment companies can raise rent far above what most can afford ... Like raising rent over $800 in the span of 3 years (happened to a friend of mine) when most people can barely afford 3 times rent for a $1700/mo apt. And thanks to artificial inflation and shrinkflation, customers are being squeezed like never before, Often having to choose between rent and food. More and more people are having to get roommates or going back home to live with their parents or even a sibling long term. And if public transportation doesn't take you straight to your job, you're wasting money by also having to Uber the rest of the way. If you have a car, the cost of gas (artificially high because of greedy oil execs) will also bleed you dry.
Many are going alternate routes to stay afloat: OnlyFans, Uber/Lyft driver, selling drugs, etc.
Winner: ultra rich corporations
For the wealthy the economy is GREAT! Artificially raised prices when we were in the throes of inflation and created shrinkflation. The prices are STILL the same as inflation has leveled off, proving it wasn't inflation driving these prices. The stock market is sky high and these investors, brokerage firms, etc are living high off the hog.
Winner: ultra rich corporations.
If you have a job, times are hard. You may have had to get a second job to make ends meet or you can't even FIND a job you are "qualified for" and can't afford to get further into debt by going back to school to get a degree or certification. Wages have barely increased for the average worker... And if they did, health benefits from your job, taxes and 401k getting taken out of your check makes it seem like you never got that raise! Even if you work overtime, it's barely little more than pre-raise after everything is taken out. Not to mention that certain companies will work you to the bone with overtime and very little rest. You have to spend a lot of money paying rent which has gone up A LOT year over year. Apartment companies can raise rent far above what most can afford ... Like raising rent over $800 in the span of 3 years (happened to a friend of mine) when most people can barely afford 3 times rent for a $1700/mo apt. And thanks to artificial inflation and shrinkflation, customers are being squeezed like never before, Often having to choose between rent and food. More and more people are having to get roommates or going back home to live with their parents or even a sibling long term. And if public transportation doesn't take you straight to your job, you're wasting money by also having to Uber the rest of the way. If you have a car, the cost of gas (artificially high because of greedy oil execs) will also bleed you dry.
Many are going alternate routes to stay afloat: OnlyFans, Uber/Lyft driver, selling drugs, etc.
Winner: ultra rich corporations
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
People and companies on the fringe with crappy jobs, low pay, high debt are screwed. People and companies doing well are paying higher prices too like everyone else, but they can float it.
Most things have consumer pricing that doesn't even matter what the raw componant costs are. For example, nvidia's gigantic gpu pricing isnt due to chip costs doubling. Thats just nvidia doubling prices because everyone was amped up on cryptomining and gpus were in short supply.
The theory of inflation is pricing to all of us goes up or down due to how a company's manufacturing costs go up and down. Not always true.
But for sake of ease, lets say it is true. Never the less, inflation rates have come down. Last time i saw it's down to around 3% which is in the ballpark of what it traditionally is before covid for probably 15 years. If inflation rates going forward are about 3% that's still costs going up a touch every year. And that's on top of the +10% inflation rates during covid years. So it's cumulative like compounded interest. So prices wont go down. For prices to go down, you need periods of deflation where the typical basket of goods used in an inflation calculation have dropping prices. For that to happen you need a combo of companies willing to drop their prices for the heck of it, plus raw manufacturing costs to also go down to help support it (ie. taxes, raw materials, wages, demand..... ) all drop. I dont see that happening any time soon leading to deflation.
IMO from business meetings at work, the best bet for deflation is that all the big companies change their profit mantra strategy to gung-ho it to market share grabs like 10 years ago where my company and similar peer companies) were all dumping products for cheap for sake of battling for AC Nielsen market share points. My company (and my ex-coworkers who work at similar companies) abandoned that market share grab bag game long time ago. It's all about higher prices and higher margin and profits, at the expense of maximum unit sales. It looks impressive when a company ships out shit loads of cheap stuff to hit front page 99 cent sale bonanzas. But profit wise sometimes we lose money on it. A lot of legacy execs (the guys with grey hair, can barely use a PC and all their wheeling and dealing back in the day was on a clipboard) were brought up on the mantra "if you sell shit loads of product, it'll solve itself profit wise". What a total lie that is. What happened is companies amped up on more detailed analysts and ERP systems making data easy to understand and a lot of those huge deals were money losers. So they got scrapped.
Thats not how pricing and inflation work.
Most things have consumer pricing that doesn't even matter what the raw componant costs are. For example, nvidia's gigantic gpu pricing isnt due to chip costs doubling. Thats just nvidia doubling prices because everyone was amped up on cryptomining and gpus were in short supply.
The theory of inflation is pricing to all of us goes up or down due to how a company's manufacturing costs go up and down. Not always true.
But for sake of ease, lets say it is true. Never the less, inflation rates have come down. Last time i saw it's down to around 3% which is in the ballpark of what it traditionally is before covid for probably 15 years. If inflation rates going forward are about 3% that's still costs going up a touch every year. And that's on top of the +10% inflation rates during covid years. So it's cumulative like compounded interest. So prices wont go down. For prices to go down, you need periods of deflation where the typical basket of goods used in an inflation calculation have dropping prices. For that to happen you need a combo of companies willing to drop their prices for the heck of it, plus raw manufacturing costs to also go down to help support it (ie. taxes, raw materials, wages, demand..... ) all drop. I dont see that happening any time soon leading to deflation.
IMO from business meetings at work, the best bet for deflation is that all the big companies change their profit mantra strategy to gung-ho it to market share grabs like 10 years ago where my company and similar peer companies) were all dumping products for cheap for sake of battling for AC Nielsen market share points. My company (and my ex-coworkers who work at similar companies) abandoned that market share grab bag game long time ago. It's all about higher prices and higher margin and profits, at the expense of maximum unit sales. It looks impressive when a company ships out shit loads of cheap stuff to hit front page 99 cent sale bonanzas. But profit wise sometimes we lose money on it. A lot of legacy execs (the guys with grey hair, can barely use a PC and all their wheeling and dealing back in the day was on a clipboard) were brought up on the mantra "if you sell shit loads of product, it'll solve itself profit wise". What a total lie that is. What happened is companies amped up on more detailed analysts and ERP systems making data easy to understand and a lot of those huge deals were money losers. So they got scrapped.
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Solarstrike
Member
Rich get richer and the poor get bamboozled
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
So the economy (aka the stock market) isn't great for the wealthy?
natjjohn
Member
Considering the circumstances, things are really awesome in the USA at least. World is struggling but USA keeping ahead.
Overall, it’s fine. There’s areas for improvement but not specific to this time period. For example, wage growth. While it’s grown recently for the better so it’s a plus, but the problem is US wages have been stagnant for decades due to conservative/republican policy making starting in the 80s with Reagan. It’s led a massive deep hole for labor and wages. Just need a massive, sustained political shift to course correct.
Overall, it’s fine. There’s areas for improvement but not specific to this time period. For example, wage growth. While it’s grown recently for the better so it’s a plus, but the problem is US wages have been stagnant for decades due to conservative/republican policy making starting in the 80s with Reagan. It’s led a massive deep hole for labor and wages. Just need a massive, sustained political shift to course correct.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Stock market has been on fire ever since it tabked during COVID in March 2020. Anyone rich or poor with stocks held as individually traded stuff or in a retirement account has been rocking unless someone picked some bad ones on their own.
It’s not only rich people who own stocks. A junior analyst working out of college at just first job should be saving retirement funds. I did. You snooze you lose. The boring index funds I use in my retirement funds have gone up 8-10% each per year compounded since COVID.
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AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
I said we can’t give out Covid money and not pay for it.
Running the presses at full speed is a bad idea.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Yup. Government were idiots. Even worse, they gave out so much and couldn’t even recouped scammer. Read up on Canada and CERB payments. They publicly announced they are giving up trying to get back money from scammers. So if you were a scammer and they never called you, you keep it. I know people who took the cash and still working. A lot of people did it.
Fuck I shoulda applied. I think they doled out like $2000 for 6 months. And the funny thing is if you got flagged as a scammer and paid it back, all the government did was ask for it back in full with no penalty fee or record. At worst it was a free loan if you got caught. I shoulda grabbed $12,000 put it in the stock market, win big and at worst I pay back the gov $12,000 if I got caught.
Goes to show how irresponsible the gov was with that money. But they had to do that as shit hit the fan, and trying to amp up getting money back from people looks bad. You got articles where a scammer grabbed money, they technically shouldn’t not had received it and then they cry publicly they can’t afford to pay it back because they spent it. So add it up and the gov probably just said fuck and the bad PR and let’s just call it a loss and move on.
But it all could had been minimized if gov increased rates slowly instead of doing nothing for two years and then went ape shit raising rates fast catching people off guard starting in 2022. It’s no like inflation was low and suddenly in 2022 it jumped to 10%. It was high inflation throughout COVID and they did nothing. They should had bumped up rates .25 or .50 here or there to smooth things out. Instead 2022 had rates jump like 4% alone I think.
All they had to do literally is take the garbage day approach. You keep things in check with garbage trucks doing their neighborhood pick up every couple weeks. Slow and steady. You don’t tell the garbage fleet to do nothing for 12 months and then cram in 24/7 garbage pick up asap when where it’s become a shitshow.
Fuck I shoulda applied. I think they doled out like $2000 for 6 months. And the funny thing is if you got flagged as a scammer and paid it back, all the government did was ask for it back in full with no penalty fee or record. At worst it was a free loan if you got caught. I shoulda grabbed $12,000 put it in the stock market, win big and at worst I pay back the gov $12,000 if I got caught.
Goes to show how irresponsible the gov was with that money. But they had to do that as shit hit the fan, and trying to amp up getting money back from people looks bad. You got articles where a scammer grabbed money, they technically shouldn’t not had received it and then they cry publicly they can’t afford to pay it back because they spent it. So add it up and the gov probably just said fuck and the bad PR and let’s just call it a loss and move on.
But it all could had been minimized if gov increased rates slowly instead of doing nothing for two years and then went ape shit raising rates fast catching people off guard starting in 2022. It’s no like inflation was low and suddenly in 2022 it jumped to 10%. It was high inflation throughout COVID and they did nothing. They should had bumped up rates .25 or .50 here or there to smooth things out. Instead 2022 had rates jump like 4% alone I think.
All they had to do literally is take the garbage day approach. You keep things in check with garbage trucks doing their neighborhood pick up every couple weeks. Slow and steady. You don’t tell the garbage fleet to do nothing for 12 months and then cram in 24/7 garbage pick up asap when where it’s become a shitshow.
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Raven117
Member
It tanked in the early part of 21, but otherwise, yeah, you are correct.
Look, I know some people work paycheck to paycheck and things are hard.
But, if you had some means early on to invest in boring ol’’index funds as early as you can… you too get to benefit from “the market.” “The market” is available to all.
Mr1999
Gold Member
I worked with a guy during the COVID period who really took advantage of it. He asked his employer for reduced hours(like 1 or 2) but somehow ended up getting approved for full benefits. I'm not sure what happened to him after that, but he started splurging on things like big refrigerators and Apple computers. One day he even told me he couldn't believe he got all that money deposited into his account. With situations like this it can go either way. If it was a mistake, they don't make a big fuss but expect repayment. However, if it's deliberate, they can really come down hard on you. There's no time limit for them to get the money back, although I'm not certain if that's still the case here.
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Pretty much if anybody wants to see how compound interest can work out for you can use
this calculator
So for example if you put in a principal of $0, $5000 per year (100 per week), for 30 years at 10% you'd have nearly a million at the end.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Yup.
Even more so if someone works at a half decent job and the company matches contributions. Even if someone just contributed 1% of their wages, the company gives you a free 1%.
Believe it or not some people I know don’t contribute any. That’s not to say they aren’t making good money another way. Maybe they raked it in buying Nvidia stock. But when you get free safe money max it out if you can. I do. My company will max a match of 5%. That’s like getting a salary boost of 5% for doing nothing but contributing to the pot.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Too bad I’m too honest when it comes to money. I could had taken that $12,000 and turned it into probably $100,000 if I dumped it all in Nvidia stock. Even if the gov red flagged me and I pay back $12,000 I still profit $88,000.
And people wonder why the economy has so much money floating around with people buying shit like crazy.
For any of you who didn’t follow pricing, check out home supplies costs when people Stuck at home decided to blow their wad renovating their house. The price of wood tripled.
You’d think during that crazy time people would be cautious about germs and losing their job and the better thing to do is just chill out and budget. But places like Home Depot got cleared out of building supplies which lead to stupid prices of wood and steel.
Raven117
Member
Yup. Just boggles my mind.
Winter John
Member
This is the fuckin’ American dream. This is my fuckin’ dream, y’all!
All this sheeyit! Look at my sheeyit!
I got … I got SHORTS! Every fuckin’ color.
I got designer T-shirts!
I got gold bullets. Motherfuckin’ VAM-pires.
I got Scarface. On repeat. SCARFACE ON REPEAT. Constant, y’all!
I got Escape! Calvin Klein Escape! Mix it up with Calvin Klein Be. Smell nice? I SMELL NICE!
That ain’t a fuckin’ bed; that’s a fuckin’ art piece. My fuckin’ spaceship! U.S.S. Enterprise on this shit. I go to different planets on this motherfucker! Me and my fuckin’ Franklins here, we take off. TAKE OFF!
Look at my shit. Look at my shit! I got my blue Kool-Aid.
I got my fuckin’ NUN-CHUCKS.
I got shurikens; I got different flavors.
I got them sais. Look at that shit, I got sais. I got blades!
Look at my sheeyit! This ain’t nuttin’, I got ROOMS of this shit!
I got my dark tannin’ oil … lay out by the pool, put on my dark tanning oil …
I got machine guns … Look at this, look at this motherfucker here! Look at this motherfucker! Huh? A fucking army up in this shit!”
All this sheeyit! Look at my sheeyit!
I got … I got SHORTS! Every fuckin’ color.
I got designer T-shirts!
I got gold bullets. Motherfuckin’ VAM-pires.
I got Scarface. On repeat. SCARFACE ON REPEAT. Constant, y’all!
I got Escape! Calvin Klein Escape! Mix it up with Calvin Klein Be. Smell nice? I SMELL NICE!
That ain’t a fuckin’ bed; that’s a fuckin’ art piece. My fuckin’ spaceship! U.S.S. Enterprise on this shit. I go to different planets on this motherfucker! Me and my fuckin’ Franklins here, we take off. TAKE OFF!
Look at my shit. Look at my shit! I got my blue Kool-Aid.
I got my fuckin’ NUN-CHUCKS.
I got shurikens; I got different flavors.
I got them sais. Look at that shit, I got sais. I got blades!
Look at my sheeyit! This ain’t nuttin’, I got ROOMS of this shit!
I got my dark tannin’ oil … lay out by the pool, put on my dark tanning oil …
I got machine guns … Look at this, look at this motherfucker here! Look at this motherfucker! Huh? A fucking army up in this shit!”
poodaddy
Member
I know we live in, (roughly), the same area brother, and I can't in good conscience say we're struggling, but it's impossible for me to make any substantial improvements in our situation. The price of groceries, mortgage, gas, electricity, water, and sewage has me essentially in a holding pattern, but I'm really just trying to keep the house happy until my wife finishes her degree, hoping things improve then. I really wanted to start investing when we got here, I was sure I'd have a duplex or at least another decent house to rent out by this time as just a nice little additional stream of income, but everyone wants double what their building is valued at and percentages are comically awful right now.
I just really hope things improve a bit when my wife finishes her education, but that's not for another three years as she has to get her graduate degree to be a dietician. I'd just like to afford a vacation lol.
Unknown Soldier
Member
What's comical about it? The rich are just getting as much as they can so they can build their orbiting space station and flee there before it all goes to shit on Earth
Yes this is a movie reference
Elysium (film) - Wikipedia
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Looks can be deceiving
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
A lot of people cant control their budgets. Thats why so many people are in debt with credit card balances at 22% interest rates. In my entire life, I've missed a monthly payment 3 times. And each time was because I forgot because at those times I wasnt on automated pre-authorized payments. Way back, it wasnt even a thing and I had to submit payments every month manually by cheque payment or pay at an ATM. Each of those payments I assumed it was due at the end of the month, but sometimes how the calendar works it might be due something like day 25. So I assumed wrong.
Most people dont even bother looking into LoC (line of credit) which is a different kind of debt account which will have an interest rate probably at least 50% cheaper. Even in modern day high interest rates, a LoC rate is probably no more than 10%. I took a guess there, but when rates were low you could get one for probably 4%. So why the fuck pay 22% on a CC? Just do some financial borrowing a different way and pay half the rate. I bet most people dont even have a line of credit. It's probably the cheapest kind of loan/debt you can get without it being a mortgage.
Tip for all. If you miss a CC payment, dont panic. As long as you pay in the next few days after the deadline, youre credit rating wont get affected. CC companies know people can be late so they buffer you some days before submitting to credit rating companies youre a deadbeat to grill your rating. As long as you pay asap, everything is good and they hold off the deadbeat submission. Your account will still get grilled a bit of interest, but who cares. Just call them like I did saying it was a lapse in judgement and they'll reverse that measly $5 interest charge too. Never paid a dime of interest charge those 3 times. Just got to get off your ass and call them.
Never the less, a lot of people cant control a dollar. I've had a company phone for almost 20 years. To save some cash, it's all I have. I could get my own phone and pay $50+/mth for the past 20 years but why? IT isn't going to give a shit if you check sports or GAF or text friends and fam on it. OK, maybe they'll care if you check out dubious porn sites and sketchy shit on a company phone (assuming IT dept controlling everyone's phones even cares to track people's usage), but no company giving out employee phones cares one iota if they are randomly checking grocery lists or doing some FB on it. I'm sure the execs do the same.
So lets see.... 20 years x 12 months x $50 = $12,000 saved. And that excludes the cost of any phone if I want to pay extra for a good one and not one of those $0 phones with a sub plan.
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Yet another reason to take advantage of your 401k. They'll take the money out before you ever see it and have any chance to spend it. (And they'll take it out pretax which helps how much you spend in taxes a year. Plus as you said, the company match.)
SoloCamo
Member
Sometimes the most in debt and poor have the flashiest products.
IT department here - yea, we lock down company phones pretty hard at least to the very, very few that get them. That said, have you been in the same company for 20 years? A lot has changed and the companies over the past few years have been far more reluctant to provide equipment. Unless you are working for an extremely well established company with money to throw around you kind of get the crap end of the stick.
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