What's the point in cheering for a mid level European soccer team?
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Zen_Arcade
Banned
Because they live there. Teams like the Padres and Brewers have been around since the 60's and haven't won anything. The Eagles haven't won a Super Bowl, their last League Championship was in 1960.
You don't just abandon ship on your hometown team and cheer for someone else because they're bad. Then you're a bandwagoner.
You don't just abandon ship on your hometown team and cheer for someone else because they're bad. Then you're a bandwagoner.
To be honest, smaller teams (that play good football) are usually more entertaining than the big clubs. And you have to consider that football teams are X-city team, they don't move to another city in search for more people like franchises do in USA.
:lol
This is relegation side Freiburg in the Bundesliga:
I guess you have only watched the English Premier League where all the teams outside of the top 5, play like they were in the XIX century.
:lol
This is relegation side Freiburg in the Bundesliga:
I guess you have only watched the English Premier League where all the teams outside of the top 5, play like they were in the XIX century.
something that couldn't happen in American sports. Were you just have to purchase a franchise, you can't get there by sporting efficiency/quality.
Football would be depressing without relegation/promotion, it's a huge plus. Even if you're shit, the club could stay on the top flight forever. Depressing
entremet
Member
It's funny how we love socialism in sport, yet hate it in polity--see health care. And the latter has a bigger affect than some SB victory.
bean breath
Member
What happens when (hypothetically speaking of course because the same four teams always win, etc) your team needs to host the championship final in their 2,000 seat capacity "stadium"?
terrisus
Member
There are no play-offs/finals in the top european football leagues. And usually in the top leagues, clubs are required to have a decent stadium in order to get a license to the next division
It doesn't bother me. I don't support my club because I need them to win the league. Obviously it's be great if they did but it's not disappointing that they don't.
At the moment the English League is actually quite competitive at the top. That being said, it would be better if the gap between teams was narrower in general so I would be in favour of spending caps and spreading the TV money around more equally. It would need to be done at a European level though and I can't see that happening.
You're displaying your ignorance of the sport. Cup finals are played at a large national stadium or at another team's ground in order to be neutral. And there's no such thing as the championship final as there is in US sports.
Firstly, Southampton's ground holds over 30,000 people, secondly cup finals take place at the 90,000 capacity Wembley. Southampton probably don't have a realistic shot at the title any time soon, but they do have possibly the best youth system in the country. They've produced a lot of world class players in the last few years. If they'd managed to hang on to Theo Walcott and Gareth Bale, as well as their current lot, they would definitely be up near the very top of the table right now. If they keep that up, their stature will rise to such a point that the players coming through won't have any ambition beyond wanting to play for Southampton. There's real potential there.
I don't see how that worked out for Southampton. You sold a proven talent to another team who then flipped him for 10 times what you were compensated for.
FortuneFaded
Member
I looked it up for my own curiosity. The smallest stadium in the football league is AFC Wimbledon at 4,850 although they are newcomers to the league. You have to go to the Conference South to find Oxford City who play at a 2,000 capacity stadium. They are currently around the 154th in English football ranking.
Spurs were about to sell Bale for dramatically less than they paid for him before he had is breakout season with them
He wasn't exactly proven when he left us with a handfull of games at LB in the championship.
appaws
Banned
Fair point about the proven thing. I still think it's a problem though. If the lower tier teams were consistent in their ability to monetize their talent you might see more variety at the top, but you don't.
They defeat us yesterday 
() but all those teams deserve they love too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JL27-Hna2s
() but all those teams deserve they love too.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JL27-Hna2s
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
It's kind of impossible right now. Top teams can offer way higher salaries and have the added plus of playing for a team with better players and possibly contending for trophies. Players will always want to leave their current clubs for a club that offers 10x the salary and more, barring very few exceptions(not counting players like Totti, Gerrard, Xavi and Del Piero who've always played for a (semi-)top team and earn shitloads of money, except maybe Del Piero who relegated with his team like a bunch of other players).
It's really hard for teams to hold on to their players if they're unhappy and want to leave at all costs, no matter what their contract situation is like.
appaws
Banned
I am getting the sense that you guys think North American sports teams just jump around from city to city all the time. It's very rare.
People have a big emotional stake in the institutions. You are a part of that institution in a way that you can never be in a pro team. Plus, you spent 4 years of your youth there and remember it so fondly. I mean, that Saturday tailgate/drinking/game is probably the source of half of my good life memories.
Yes, pro teams are technically vastly better. They are all college all-star teams. I love my Chicago Bears. But I would give my left arm for Kentucky to have a national title in football. Literally.
FortuneFaded
Member
Here are some names I like (in English Football):
Shaw Lane Aquaforce
Roman Glass St George
Romulus
Thurnby Nirvana
Tytherington Rocks
Vauxhall Motors
Whitehawk
Arnold Town
Billingham Synthonia
Bemerton Heath Harlequins
Black Country Rangers
Cockfosters
Continental Star
Diss Town
Eversley & California
Godmanchester Rovers
Metropolitan Police
Northwich Victoria
Peacehaven & Telscombe
A full list is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_football_clubs_in_England
I absolutely love it.
Completely unique as far as I know in world football. Particularly in a country full of Towns, United's, City's, Wanderers and Rovers.
Quite a lot of history behind that name as well. We were originally called just "The Wednesday" and were formed in 1867. "The Wednessay" were a cricket team before then for many years as well.
There aren't many Wanderers.
ExtremePopcorn
Member
Billingham Synthonia are the only team in England and probably the world to be named after an agricultural fertiliser.
My mum's local team was Abergavenny Thursdays. So there's that.
terrisus
Member
Not specifically related to that, but, as a result of that, I just learned there's a town in Wales whose English name is Mold.
So the point of cheering for any team is to experience success as a fan, almost like a leech attached to a carcass, sucking on the success, season after season? Reeks of desperation, "Yeah i like Miami Heat, Oklahoma City, San Antonio Spurs, Red Sox, Yankees, and [insert_team that won_the superbowl]
Are all american fans just plastic glory hunters? I doubt that. There is something romantic about cheering for your local team, no matter how small or insignificant it is. Its what sport is all about, the community, your friends, the legacy.
And that is why football (soakker) is the biggest sport in the world, it involves everyone on multiple levels. If you want to a be a fraud, plastic, glory hunter you can be that, if you want to be involved with your local team, you can do that, or you can just stick with your nation. Something for everyone.
Are all american fans just plastic glory hunters? I doubt that. There is something romantic about cheering for your local team, no matter how small or insignificant it is. Its what sport is all about, the community, your friends, the legacy.
And that is why football (soakker) is the biggest sport in the world, it involves everyone on multiple levels. If you want to a be a fraud, plastic, glory hunter you can be that, if you want to be involved with your local team, you can do that, or you can just stick with your nation. Something for everyone.
The_Hitcher89
Member
Ole Gunnar Solksjaer used to manage them.
I don't think you know what pertinent means since this question have been answered several times in this thread. To a point that I think its not worth answering your question at all.
You know what, I'll be brief. In Bundesliga for instance, there have been 5 winners in the last 10 years. In France, There have been 6 champions in the last 6 years.
Yet, you still think that the same fucking team contend for the titles?
The pep effect
Duane Cunningham
Member
Yeah, I actually stopped for a beer at a bar in Omaha when I was there a couple of years ago, and I can't remember the name of it, but it was all Yankees themed. They had all these jerseys hanging on the wall, maybe a statue of DiMaggio.
Saddest shit in the world.
What? Regular season in american sports matter because it determines whether you team makes the playoffs or not.
terrisus
Member
It's understandable why they didn't have a statue of Jeter.
Since the Yankees still have his statue at Shortstop
you enjoy the matches that get you there, not exactly the fact of winning another title/trophy.
And most teams won those titles way in the 70s and so, current fans are excited to see it happening in their lifetimes.
Allforce
Member
It's like you've read absolutely nothing written in this thread.
Americans support their hometown/regional teams. Sure there's douchebag "plastic fans" that root for the best teams (mostly children I've found), but it's such a small minority of fans in a regional area.
It's just that we have championship aspirations for ALL of our teams. Nobody in Milwaukee is happy the Bucks are the worst team in the NBA, but they still have fans. No fan is going to be excited that their team went from last place to 20th in a 30-team league.
I'm from Southeast Michigan, my teams are the Lions, Red Wings, Tigers, and Pistons. I've seen those 4 teams combine for about 8 championships in my lifetime, and they were some of the best fucking years of my life. What the OP is talking about (and later clarified despite being dogpiled by people who didn't read), is that he can't imagine being just as excited to move up a league or "not get relegated" as if it's some grand achievement for your team.
PastorOfMuppets
Banned
Exactly. North American fans don't "glory hunt" (we call it bandwagoning) anymore than European fans. The thing is, North American sports franchises - even if you cheer for teams that have won nothing for 50 years - Cleveland area sports teams for instance, those franchises are always aspiring to win their respective league championships. Cleveland Browns fans don't expect the Browns to win the Super Bowl every year. They expect the Browns to continue to build a team that can one day, down the road have a realistic chance of winning the Super Bowl.
If you support a team that never wins any titles, you don't expect it to. But maybe there's a chance to get promoted, avoid relegation, win the cup, end up in one of the EL/CL spots, beating your local rival.
But unless I'm mistaken most American sports don't have a league structure that allows a fight against relegation or progression (or plummet) through divisions in the same way that football does?
In England there are 92 teams spread across 4 professional divisions. And below that, there are numerous other national and regional "non-league" levels where the same relegation/promotion rules apply. There's a vastly greater spectrum of movement that teams can potentially climb or fall, and thus a far greater spectrum of relative success.
The vast majority of football teams and football fans will never see their team win the Premier League. Most will never see their team win a major trophy. So "success" can and has to be found elsewhere.
A "great escape" for a relegation threatened team can feel just as euphoric for the fans of that club as winning a trophy feels for the big teams. Arguably more so, given how rare those moments are for the vast majority of teams and fans in the game.
Jeff Albertson
Member
Fellow Rover! Don't worry its not much better when you live just up the road from Ewood!
Anyway to answer the OP I was born and raised in blackburn, we were destined to be a mid table top / second division team until a local fan made it big in the business world and invested heavily in the club with the thought 'think big' his money took us from lower end of division 2 to CHAMPIONS OF ENGLAND in about 4 years. Sure it didn't last and we are back where we were and frankly a bit shit but we still had those times.
I'm still a season ticket holder and its still a great feeling just to win a game, we hope next season we can challenge for promotion, our uglier neighbours have just about done it this season. Success is relative though you don't need to be winning the premier league to have success.
Jeff Albertson
Member
Watch it sunshine
Allforce
Member
No, we don't. Instead we have a draft system where the best "amateurs" (out of college) are selected by the worst team the previous year, so that a team has a way to pull itself out of the slump they're in.
That's how you have teams like the Seattle Seahawks who didn't have a pot to piss in 5-6 years ago make smart management and draft decisions and get to be the Super Bowl champs in such a relatively short period. There's been teams that have gone worst-to-first from previous years and won the title. It's amazing since even if your hometown team you pull for is shit, you always have that shot that things click and you go on an amazing run and win it all. I think the OP's point of this thread was that is NEVER going to happen for the vast majority of Euro football teams, which is sort of a shame and takes away a bit of drama I'm sure.
I think the problem is there is no 1:1 comparison because as you've pointed out, in Europe, there's just SO MANY football clubs of all rank and file, all with their own fanbases and level of play.
In the US, there's 4 major professional sports, and then there's college athletics. Each is part of a league and has a champion crowned each year. They're all playing for the same goal year in and year out, win the championship. There are "minor" leagues for each sport where athletes are still paid (albeit almost nothing compared to the majors) that are all part of the "major" team's organization and act as training camps, rehab assignments, etc.
I think it's interesting the comparison, there's a much more romanticized view of sports in Europe, especially football. Where you hear comments in this thread of "we're just happy to play and maybe win against a few teams" or "It's all about the community and supporting our team" in the US it's very much "We love our team, but how are we going to get better and win it all?" year to year.
Someone posted that Herm Edwards .gif earlier and it's perfect. The entire point of pro sports in the US is "You play to win the game".
Bcause they are fun to watch? I Prefer watching mid-tier teams over Barcelona and Madrid unless it's champions 
That's why I like the Mexican league. It's not always the same team winning every fucking year. Leon, who ascended back in 2012 after being in second division for a long ass time, just won the title last season. They also beat Flamengo in the Libertadores yesterday.
That's why I like the Mexican league. It's not always the same team winning every fucking year. Leon, who ascended back in 2012 after being in second division for a long ass time, just won the title last season. They also beat Flamengo in the Libertadores yesterday.
Trust me, not competing for the top division title doesn't make anything less dramatic.
This season Wednesday are safely in mid table. At this point we won't get promoted and we won't get relegated. But this is probably the first time in the last 15, maybe 16 years that we've had this luxury. Every other season we've been fighting to either get promoted or - more commonly - avoid relegation. I've lost count of the amount of times we've gone into the final game of the season needing to win to stay up. Drama is something there's absolutely no shortage of throughout the entire league structure. There are story's, dramatic victors and heartbreaking losses at every level and at both ends of every league table.
At the end of the day though, like you say, there are just fundamental differences in how the leagues and teams are structured and what that means in terms of governing "success" between the US sports and European football. The "Anyone Can Win It" situation you mentioned with the draft and college system, combined with a much smaller pool of teams, means every team in American sports can win the top honour and therefore should be aiming to do so. Every team in American sports divisions is competing for just one ultimate prize. Here, it's way more spread out across a vastly higher number of teams, the majority of which simply cannot obtain or sustain the resource required to suddenly win the Premiership. But, the way our system is structured means more teams can "have their day", even if that doesn't mean winning a trophy.
Fans of smaller clubs will enjoy and remember great escapes, good cup runs and promotion seasons just as much as Manchester United fans will enjoy winning another league title.
terrisus
Member
Unless you want to tank for a better draft position.
After all, who really cares if you finish with, say, the 25th-worst record or the 30th-worst record? It's not like your team's going to get relegated or something, and you have better odds for the draft.
I would say there's more incentive to win (or less excuse not to) in European Football than in American sports (where there are actual reasons to want to lose).
This is why OP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWj5LyD34tk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2b-Uika8Tg&list=UUii5E2yKFnrxZt52f-cZJXg
Though not technically midtable we still rarely win anything, so I guess we count. Motherwell till I die.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWj5LyD34tk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2b-Uika8Tg&list=UUii5E2yKFnrxZt52f-cZJXg
Though not technically midtable we still rarely win anything, so I guess we count. Motherwell till I die.
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