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[NLB2]

So a friend of mine and I were having a conversation about alchohol:

Amp656 [12:34 A.M.]: yeah, how about the narcotic effect?
asadf [12:34 A.M.]: narcotic?
Amp656 [12:34 A.M.]: sleepy sleepy
asdf [12:34 A.M.]: its not like drugs
asdf[12:35 A.M.]: it doesn't make me tired, if anything it gives you energy
Amp656 [12:35 A.M.]: well of course it gives you energy, there are many carbohydrates in alcohol
Amp656 [12:36 A.M.]: but its a narcotic, because it makes you pass out.
asdf[12:36 A.M.]: only if you drink a ton-and actually narcotic more directly relates to chemicals as opposed to the ethonol based alcohols
Amp656 [12:37 A.M.]: what do you think ethonol is if not a chemical
adsf[12:37 A.M.]: it is an organic compound
asdf[12:37 A.M.]: with a COOH tail
asdf[12:38 A.M.]: naturally occuring as opposed to the THC in weed or whatever is in the hard crap
asdf[12:38 A.M.]: *modified THC*
asdf[12:39 A.M.]: ok~I'll drop the topic
Amp656 [12:39 A.M.]: chem·i·cal ** (*P*)**Pronunciation Key**(km-kl)
adj.
Of or relating to chemistry.
Of or relating to the properties or actions of chemicals.
n.
A substance with a distinct molecular composition that is produced by or used in a chemical process.
Amp656 [12:39 A.M.]: nar·cot·ic ** (*P*)**Pronunciation Key**(när-ktk)
n.
An addictive drug, such as opium, that reduces pain, alters mood and behavior, and usually induces sleep or stupor. Natural and synthetic narcotics are used in medicine to control pain.
Amp656 [12:39 A.M.]: adj.
Inducing sleep or stupor; causing narcosis.
Of or relating to narcotics, their effects, or their use.
Of, relating to, or intended for one addicted to a narcotic.
asfd[12:41 A.M.]: you were using it as a noun
asdf[12:41 A.M.]: An addictive drug, such as opium, that reduces pain, alters mood and behavior, and usually induces sleep or stupor. Natural and synthetic narcotics are used in medicine to control pain.
Amp656 [12:41 A.M.]: which alchohol fits under
asdf[12:41 A.M.]: no it doesn't
asdf[12:42 A.M.]: alcohol doesn't cause stupor
Amp656 [12:42 A.M.]: let's see. Is alcohol addictive? yes, does it reduce pain? yes, does it induce sleep or stupor? yes.
asdf[12:42 A.M.]: it does reduce pain but it doesn't induce sleep-passing out is when your body shuts down-unable to process the alcohol
Amp656 [12:43 A.M.]: stu·por ** (*P*)**Pronunciation Key**(stpr, sty-)
n.
A state of reduced or suspended sensibility.
A state of mental numbness, as that resulting from shock; a daze.
asdf[12:43 A.M.]: bah
Amp656 [12:43 A.M.]: stu·por (stpr, sty-)
n. A state of impaired consciousness characterized by a marked diminution in the capacity to react to environmental stimuli.
Amp656 [12:43 A.M.]: so poop on you
asdf[12:43 A.M.]: you aren't useing reason and are judging something you dont understand
Amp656 [12:44 A.M.]: lol, how am I not using reason?
asdf[12:45 A.M.]: I can't type fast enough to explian-IM-ing is a stupid medium for anything beyond wasting time

Ah, all of that anti-drug brainwashing has rendered in this girl's mind the idea that narcotics are bad bad. But now that she's in college she's taken a liking to alchohol. So we've got alchohol = good and narcotics = bad, so how can alchohol -> narcotic be true? :lol

Man, why can't people just grow up?

 

[Dujour]

Someone must change the direction that this thread will eventually go in, just not me.

 

[NLB2]

Someone must change the direction that this thread will eventually go in, just not me.

Well its already gotten off to a lousy start with this post. Don't you have someone to pretend to be right now ?

 

[Dujour]

I should steal your face. Why don't you keep this stuff in your Livejournal account?

 

[FightyF]

you aren't useing reason

*ROFLMAO*

I dunno, you've done all you could. Laid out the facts...it's totally up to her on what she wants to do. She could be reasonable or illogical, you can't change that about her.

 

[Eminem]

asdf[12:42 A.M.]: alcohol doesn't cause stupor

what the fuck? he does not drink enough.

 

[Monk]

I dont smoke, or drink alcohol. But I take a full dose of Zoloft and another drug.

Where does that put me?

 

[NLB2]

I should steal your face. Why don't you keep this stuff in your Livejournal account?

I'm way too pretty for you. Nobody would believe you twice if you had another pretty person as your new avatar anyway, lay off it kid. I don't want to get into anything with you.

*ROFLMAO*

I dunno, you've done all you could. Laid out the facts...it's totally up to her on what she wants to do. She could be reasonable or illogical, you can't change that about her.

Yeah, I know. Its just dissapointing that people choose to be so dillusional.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

So a friend of mine and I were having a conversation about alchohol:

Ah, all of that anti-drug brainwashing has rendered in this girl's mind the idea that narcotics are bad bad. But now that she's in college she's taken a liking to alchohol. So we've got alchohol = good and narcotics = bad, so how can alchohol -> narcotic be true? :lol

Man, why can't people just grow up?

According to the legal definition, a narcotic is an opiate, like heroin, morphine, and codine.

The CSA does consider cocaine and other coca leaf products to be narcotics, even though they aren't techincally.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcotic

Do some research and know your drugs my good man.

 

[NLB2]

According to the legal definition, a narcotic is an opiate, like heroin, morphine, and codine.

The CSA does consider cocaine and other coca leaf products to be narcotics, even though they aren't techincally.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcotic

Do some research and know your drugs my good man.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. The US Gov't has defined narcotics in a way such that alchohol is not considered a narcotic (although it is) and cocaine as a narcotic (although its a stimulant, the exact opposite of a narcotic) and from this definition of narcotic, she learns that "narcotics are bad". Then when I gave her definition of narcotic that I outlined while IMing her, she automatically equivocated to the dumbass US Gov't definition of narcotic. (The reason I feel that the definition I gave for narcotic is better than the US Gov't's is because narcotic comes from the Greek narcosis, which means a numbing.)

 

[Monk]

Why is this such a big deal anyway?

 

[ConfusingJazz]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. The US Gov't has defined narcotics in a way such that alchohol is not considered a narcotic (although it is) and cocaine as a narcotic (although its a stimulant, the exact opposite of a narcotic) and from this definition of narcotic, she learns that "narcotics are bad". Then when I gave her definition of narcotic that I outlined while IMing her, she automatically equivocated to the dumbass US Gov't definition of narcotic. (The reason I feel that the definition I gave for narcotic is better than the US Gov't's is because narcotic comes from the Greek narcosis, which means a numbing.)

Actually, its the medical definition as well.

Besides, even if its only the "government" way of thinking, whats your point? Opiates are more harmful and destructive to your system then alcohol. I am not disagreeing with you the alcohol messes with your system or anything, but its still more of a depressant then narcotic.

EDIT: Actually, my bad, alcohol isn't just more of a depressant, it is a depressant.

 

[Jotaro]

They are both bad. In my life I never consumed any of them.

 

[Hitokage]

With alcohol it's all a matter of dosage. Responsible low-moderate drinking is healthy, but it could lead to heavy drinking which is extremely unhealthy.

 

[Jotaro]

With alcohol it's all a matter of dosage. Responsible low-moderate drinking is healthy, but it could lead to heavy drinking which is extremely unhealthy.

How about never consuming any alcohol? I think all alcohol is unhealty in the end.

 

[cloudwalking]

yeah i always try not to drink but it isn't easy when you get together with a big group of people and they're all pourin' em down... and there you are drinking water

peer pressure yo

 

[ConfusingJazz]

How about never consuming any alcohol? I think all alcohol is unhealty in the end.

Nope, if you drink red wine at a reasonable level, it helps out the ol' heart.

1 glass a day in women and 2 glasses a day in men lowers the chances of heart attack for middle age somewhere between 30-50%

 

[Jotaro]

yeah i always try not to drink but it isn't easy when you get together with a big group of people and they're all pourin' em down... and there you are drinking water

peer pressure yo

I know what you are talking about. I let them make fools out of themselves, and always stood somewhat wise, and I got respect that way.

 

[Saturnman]

How about never consuming any alcohol? I think all alcohol is unhealty in the end.

Various studies suggest otherwise, especially with moderate drinking of red wine.

But it's not like alcohol is part of an essential food group. it can just decrease the odds of contracting some diseases.

 

[Jotaro]

Nope, if you drink red wine at a reasonable level, it helps out the ol' heart.

1 glass a day in women and 2 glasses a day in men lowers the chances of heart attack for middle age somewhere between 30-50%

Various studies suggest otherwise, especially with moderate drinking of red wine.

But it's not like alcohol is part of an essential food group. it can just decrease the odds of contracting some diseases.

I definitely know about that, but I prefer some better ways as to lower the chances of an eventual heart attack I might or might not have.

 

[cloudwalking]

alcohol itself isn't so much unhealthy in moderate amounts... but it can lead you to do unhealthy shit and make unhealthy choices like drunk driving or unprotected sex, etc.

 

[Saturnman]

I can't stand the taste of wine so f*ck it, I won't be stuck drinking that filth for the rest of my life. :lol

 

[etiolate]

When men were Kings and Knights, we could take our booze. Now you're all pimps and addicts.

I am not sure what that means, but I'm drinking wine right now beeyoch.

 

[Jotaro]

alcohol itself isn't so much unhealthy in moderate amounts... but it can lead you to do unhealthy shit and make unhealthy choices like drunk driving or unprotected sex, etc.

That's definitely true.

I can't stand the taste of wine so f*ck it, I won't be stuck drinking that filth for the rest of my life. :lol

I cannot stand any alcohol. That, and when I was very young, my father would buy say Rhum, Whisky, Vodka or Cider for parties. He would then tell me:

"Hey Jotaro, come taste this!"
"Dad, I don't want to, it's horrendous!"
"Come on, at least come and smell it"
"No!"
"Ok it's your choice... but then I'm gonna (insert blackmail here)."
"Damn... ok dad."

I would smell it so much it made me wanna vomit! :lol

My dad always teased me gently however. And it sure made me learn some very valuable lessons.

 

[Deleted member 4784]

Wow. After reading that log, all I can say is that this girl needs to stay away from the alcohol and focus on preserving what few braincells she may have left in her head. :lol "Alcohol isn't a narcotic!" Just... wow. Did the subject ever come up of what all that drinking was doing to her liver?

I'm Italian, so I'm used to seeing red wine at every meal, but never in excess. Getting drunk is seen as dishonerable in Italian culture since it shows a lack of restraint in self-indulgence, among other things. This is the impression I was raised on growing up and to this day I feel uncomfortable going out with people who I know will get drunk, since I get very embarassed being in their company when it happens. IMO it is not a bad philosophy to have; if more people exhibited a little restraint while drinking, they would probably be much better of health wise.

 

[B-B-Bomba!]

Of all the things in the world that are worse than whinging about other peoples' habits, you had to resort to repetitive use of dictionary definitions to do it.

Your friend may be in the wrong, but UGH! Way to come across as a fistful of used toilet paper.

I say this by way of friendly advice, btw

 

[NLB2]

I don't see the problem. She thinks that narcotics are bad, which is what the government says. She goes by the government definition of narcotics. Did I miss something?

She thinks narcotics are bad by one definition. She sees that alchohol is a narcotic by another definition and then equivocates that alchohol is bad. Refusing to believe that alchohol is bad, she refuses to believe that alchohol is a narcotic by any definition. That's the problem.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

She thinks narcotics are bad by one definition. She sees that alchohol is a narcotic by another definition and then equivocates that alchohol is bad. Refusing to believe that alchohol is bad, she refuses to believe that alchohol is a narcotic by any definition. That's the problem.

I believe a better way to phrase it would be to just call it a recreational drug, because you are just causing confusion by the continual use of narcotic, which by medical and legal definitions, alcohol is not.

Now if she tries to argue that alcohol is not a light recreational drug, then you can go ahead and punch her.

 

[Che]

I don't see the problem. She thinks that narcotics are bad, which is what the government says. She goes by the government definition of narcotics. Did I miss something?

...and because the goverment says, it means that they're right???

 

[bionic77]

I thought this thread was going to be about olimario.

 

[Dilbert]

She thinks narcotics are bad by one definition. She sees that alchohol is a narcotic by another definition and then equivocates that alchohol is bad. Refusing to believe that alchohol is bad, she refuses to believe that alchohol is a narcotic by any definition. That's the problem.

Legal status aside, the big difference between alcohol and, say, morphine is that alcohol is not physically addictive.

Your friend sounds a little ditzy, but I have no idea why a) you insist on playing a semantic game with the well-understood meaning of "narcotic" or b) you are posting on the internet about your IM conversation.

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

How about never consuming any alcohol? I think all alcohol is unhealty in the end.

like the whole "red wine" thing...i read that a man should drink 1 beer a day, being that 1 beer a day helps the heart.

plus, in certain cultures, you're considered to be strange if you're a man and you don't drink.

that could be unhealthy in the long run.

 

[NLB2]

Legal status aside, the big difference between alcohol and, say, morphine is that alcohol is not physically addictive.

Alcohol Withdrawal symptoms include but are not limited to:
* Sweating or Rapid Pulse
* Increased Hand Tremor
* Insomnia
* Nausea or Vomiting
* Physical Agitation
* Anxiety
* Transient Visual, Tactile or Auditory Hallucinations or
* Illusions
* Grand Mal Seizures
http://www.addictionwithdrawal.com/alcohol.htm
Isn't something that people can be adddicted to and causes physical dependence something that is physicall addictive? I don't really know the definition of physically addictive, so its a real question, I'm not trying to be a smartass.

why a) you insist on playing a semantic game with the well-understood meaning of "narcotic"

I'm not playing a semantics game. I'm just wondering why someone would have a Pavlovian response to a word like narcotic rather than thinking rationally. It is obvious what definition of narcotic I was using since I gave her the definition, but rather than admit that alchohol fits under that definition, she refused even though the syllogism was samcking her in the face.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

give the alcohol time to do its work son, she'll be on the narcs sooner or later heh.

 

[gblues]

Isn't something that people can be adddicted to and causes physical dependence something that is physicall addictive? I don't really know the definition of physically addictive, so its a real question, I'm not trying to be a smartass.

"Physically addictive" generally means the body becomes chemically dependent on the presence of the substance and short-circuits temporarily when the substance is no longer there. I'm sure that site means well, but the fact is that most if not all of those "withdrawl symptoms" are classic hangover symptoms, and have more to do with dehydration than with a chemical dependency.

I'm not playing a semantics game. I'm just wondering why someone would have a Pavlovian response to a word like narcotic rather than thinking rationally. It is obvious what definition of narcotic I was using since I gave her the definition, but rather than admit that alchohol fits under that definition, she refused even though the syllogism was smacking her in the face.

Yes you are. Regardless of the dictionary/classical definition, the connotation of "narcotic" is that the drug has physically addictive properties, like nicotine or heroin. Words change meaning--ask anyone who's tried to use "gay" to mean "happy" in the last 40 years, or an unfortunate British tourist who got punched for saying they wanted to "smoke a fag."

Nathan

 

[missAran]

The only reason alcohol is legal is because the government doesn't have the power or the need to destroy big business beer. It's too powerful and has too strong of a lobby group. In actuality, alcohol is WAY worse for you than marijuana is -- but marijuana is cheap and drug companies want to sell their drugs (which essentially do the same stuff that weed does) for an expensive prive. In the end, it's all economic.

 

[NLB2]

"Physically addictive" generally means the body becomes chemically dependent on the presence of the substance and short-circuits temporarily when the substance is no longer there. I'm sure that site means well, but the fact is that most if not all of those "withdrawl symptoms" are classic hangover symptoms, and have more to do with dehydration than with a chemical dependency.

Ok, thank you for clearing that up.

Yes you are. Regardless of the dictionary/classical definition, the connotation of "narcotic" is that the drug has physically addictive properties, like nicotine or heroin. Words change meaning--ask anyone who's tried to use "gay" to mean "happy" in the last 40 years, or an unfortunate British tourist who got punched for saying they wanted to "smoke a fag."

Nathan

So if I tell someone who's a homophobe that I'm gonna use the word gay to mean happy and then I say "I am gay today." And they reply "Get away from me!" then you're just in an argument of semantics? Of course not. I would have just triggered a response from the person's homophobia by using the word gay, even though it was not meant to mean homosexuality. I'm not complaining that she didin't agree with me at first that alcohol is a narcotic, but rather that after I showed her a definition of narcotic that included alcohol she refused to acknowledge that alcohol fits under that definition because of her conditioning towards the word "narcotic".

 

[NLB2]

I was saying that since she used the same definition each time, there was no contradiction. It seemed like NLB2 was using two different definitions-- the government definition, which says that narcotics are bad, and the dictionary definition, which says alcohol is a narcotic, or at least has the properties of a narcotic. He equivocates two different definitions to "prove" to his friend that she should consider alcohol just as bad as harder drugs. Thus, the logic fails.

I don't think that's quite what I said. I only gave one definiton of narcotic (the one involving a stupor) and I never was trying to make alcohol seem as bad as cocaine or heroin. I see it as my friend equivocating from the definition of narcotic I give, to the definition the gov't gives in which the gov't says narcotics are bad. But perhaps I'm reading my writing from a perspective which is skewed. Could you show me where I am equivocating?

 

[Saturnman]

The only reason alcohol is legal is because the government doesn't have the power or the need to destroy big business beer. It's too powerful and has too strong of a lobby group. In actuality, alcohol is WAY worse for you than marijuana is -- but marijuana is cheap and drug companies want to sell their drugs (which essentially do the same stuff that weed does) for an expensive prive. In the end, it's all economic.

I'm amazed they were able to outlaw it in the prohibition era.

 

[NLB2]

Oops, my mistake. It was only implied in your IM chat, but was direct in your post.
Those are two different definitions of narcotic right there. Narcotics = bad uses the government definition. "Narcotics are bad, yadda yadda." When they say that, they are referring to specific substances, not the dictionary definition. When you say that alcohol is a narcotic, you are referring not to the government definition of narcotic, but the dictionary definition.

It's possible to make the argument that alcohol is just as harmful as many illicit substances, which I think is what you're trying to say. However, this is not the way to go about it.

Also, if you antagonize your friends too much over this kind of thing, soon you'll have no friends.

So we've got alchohol = good and narcotics = bad, so how can alchohol -> narcotic be true?
This was how I was trying to explain her thinking. She learned from experience that she enjoys alcohol, hence alcohol = good. She learned from one definition of narcotics that narcotics are bad, hence narcotics = bad. But then in the other definition of narcotics, alcohol is a narcotic, hence acohol -> narcotic. I was just trying to explain her thinking and her reaction to hearing a definition of narcotic that includes alcohol.

I'm amazed they were able to outlaw it in the prohibition era.

Seriously. I bet 80 years from now people are gonna be saying "Its amazing that the gov't outlawed such a huge industry as marijuana and cocaine. Especially considering all of the crime that was created due to the prohibition of those drugs."

 

[Saturnman]

But booze was nothing new in the West and had been part of Christian cultures for millenia. It's not something like tobacco introduced when Europeans first settled here and took a while to spread.

 

[NLB2]

But booze was nothing new in the West and had been part of Christian cultures for millenia. It's not something like tobacco introduced when Europeans first settled here and took a while to spread.

That's very true. I guess alcohol was just a very easy scapegoat for society's real problems.

 

[B-B-Bomba!]

That's the tyranny of the masses for you. The only upside is they're not ambitious.

 

[Deleted member 4784]

I don't know how much weight there is to this in the psychology/sociology community regarding it, but one of the things that I learned in my Drugs, Addictions and Society class was that women form addictions to alcohol in a different way than men do. A basis for this was that some psychological study done on AA women and their backgrounds showed that 80% of them had suffered some form of abuse (likely sexual) in their childhood. That's a pretty staggering statistic when you think about it.