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Which film was better....Batman Begins or The Dark Knight?
- Thread starter SpaceWolf
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BotoxAgent
Member
The Dark Knight for me, it felt like a crime drama as much as it is a superhero movie. And it had the most interesting villain of any comic book movie. I loved BB's origin story and I loved their interpretation as Batman as a character and the idea of fear--although I felt like they didn't run enough with that idea.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
TDK. Begins has too much origin baggage and loses steam after the Falcone capture.
TDK is relentless, constantly building more and more pressure towards its climax. It also has inventive enough action scenes that take away focus from Nolan's lackluster fist fights.
Not that I don't like BB's aesthetic.
TDK is relentless, constantly building more and more pressure towards its climax. It also has inventive enough action scenes that take away focus from Nolan's lackluster fist fights.
Not that I don't like BB's aesthetic.
TJ Verboten
Member
Best scene
Interrogation room vs. The will to act glacier
Even
Performance
Ledger/Eckhart/Oldman >>> Bale in Begins
Line
I HAVE to save Dent > Parents death was not your fault
Vehicular chase
Molussus/Stealth mode/RACHEL slightly edges TDK
Opening scene - TDK
Cinematography
TDK - Mann aesthetic beats Narrows Blade Runner
Pacing - Begins, TDK gets a touch long post hospitalsplosion
Tension
TDK by a landslide, one of the most white knuckle
experiences of this century
Humor
Begins - Didnt you get the memo
Ending
TDK's Shane esque ending beats Joker card by a hair
Flaws (warning - some are nitpicky, I do love these movies)
Begins
- needless shaky cam used for prison fight
- excessive water tower guy,
- "nice ride" joke undercutting tension in climax
- i know the Begins suit was bulky and harder to shoot but
damn I wish the Ras/Batman train fight had a few less
cuts and the shot was a little more wide
- 3rd act climax in general while enjoyable is the least
interesting part of Begins
TDK flaws
- Maggie's performance is a bit off in her first two scenes,
thankfully she's good after that and nails her most
important scene, being tied to the barrells
- bit too much postproduction bass on Bale's voice
- Nolan hand to hand fight choreography, overly maligned
but no question it's functional at best, needs more zip
- No more dead cops
- Post hospital pacing lags a touch (ferry scene) before
the imo brilliant Dent/Batman/Gordon climax
- this city just showed you.....too nasally, rerecord Nolan
Overall, Begins is easier to rewatch, which normally would tip the scales for me but TDK is just on a different level with Ledger/Eckhart/Cinematography/Tension/Higher highs
Though the first act of Begins is particularly brilliant
Interrogation room vs. The will to act glacier
Even
Performance
Ledger/Eckhart/Oldman >>> Bale in Begins
Line
I HAVE to save Dent > Parents death was not your fault
Vehicular chase
Molussus/Stealth mode/RACHEL slightly edges TDK
Opening scene - TDK
Cinematography
TDK - Mann aesthetic beats Narrows Blade Runner
Pacing - Begins, TDK gets a touch long post hospitalsplosion
Tension
TDK by a landslide, one of the most white knuckle
experiences of this century
Humor
Begins - Didnt you get the memo
Ending
TDK's Shane esque ending beats Joker card by a hair
Flaws (warning - some are nitpicky, I do love these movies)
Begins
- needless shaky cam used for prison fight
- excessive water tower guy,
- "nice ride" joke undercutting tension in climax
- i know the Begins suit was bulky and harder to shoot but
damn I wish the Ras/Batman train fight had a few less
cuts and the shot was a little more wide
- 3rd act climax in general while enjoyable is the least
interesting part of Begins
TDK flaws
- Maggie's performance is a bit off in her first two scenes,
thankfully she's good after that and nails her most
important scene, being tied to the barrells
- bit too much postproduction bass on Bale's voice
- Nolan hand to hand fight choreography, overly maligned
but no question it's functional at best, needs more zip
- No more dead cops
- Post hospital pacing lags a touch (ferry scene) before
the imo brilliant Dent/Batman/Gordon climax
- this city just showed you.....too nasally, rerecord Nolan
Overall, Begins is easier to rewatch, which normally would tip the scales for me but TDK is just on a different level with Ledger/Eckhart/Cinematography/Tension/Higher highs
Though the first act of Begins is particularly brilliant
crazy monkey
Banned
This. I did not enjoy the other two movies. Very average compared to the dark knight
Scott pilgrim is the best comic book movie
Nemesis121
Member
This X infinity....
Lord Fagan
Junior Member
Dark Knight is the finest Nolan-made Batman film.
Mask Of The Phantasm is the finest Batman film.
Now that I'm on the record for the topic, I got something to say...
It cannot be understated just how valuable Michael Caine, Morgan Freeman, and especially Gary Oldman were in making Nolan's Batman movies exceptional. Each of these actors brought incredible A-game performances EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. While I acknowledge that Rises doesn't shine like the previous two, and has some very sloppy editing, the final scenes with these characters wrapping up things up were easily some of my favorite moments of this trilogy. Particularly Gordon being reminded the night Bruce's parents died and finally having it all click into place, that was amazing storytelling. I'm interested to see if I will be able to accept other interpretations of these roles, or if I'm at that point where it's like Christopher Reeves and all other attempts will be inferior and mediocre.
Mask Of The Phantasm is the finest Batman film.
Now that I'm on the record for the topic, I got something to say...
It cannot be understated just how valuable Michael Caine, Morgan Freeman, and especially Gary Oldman were in making Nolan's Batman movies exceptional. Each of these actors brought incredible A-game performances EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. While I acknowledge that Rises doesn't shine like the previous two, and has some very sloppy editing, the final scenes with these characters wrapping up things up were easily some of my favorite moments of this trilogy. Particularly Gordon being reminded the night Bruce's parents died and finally having it all click into place, that was amazing storytelling. I'm interested to see if I will be able to accept other interpretations of these roles, or if I'm at that point where it's like Christopher Reeves and all other attempts will be inferior and mediocre.
MugiwaraCole
Member
The Dark Knight, and I honestly don't think it's all that close. Batman Begins is the better Batman film though.
old manatee
Banned
I feel like they should have found a way to work some of Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman's scenes together. The relationship Batman has with their characters is so similar, so it always feels repetitive to me that he is constantly going back and forth between these two wise, quip-y old gents.
All that needs to be said, really.
neurosisxeno
Member
The easy answer here would be TDK (for damn good reasons), but I gotta give the edge to Begins for the sole reason that it saved Cinematic Batman as we know it. It had to clean up the hot steaming dog shit that was this
The movie that simultaneously sank Chris O'Donnell and Alicia Silverstone's careers.
PleaseDontBanMe
Banned
Batman Begins >>>> Dark Knight = Dark Knight Rises
All 3 films are great though, fantastic trilogy
I just hope Mat Reeves's The Batman is as good as any one of them
All 3 films are great though, fantastic trilogy
I just hope Mat Reeves's The Batman is as good as any one of them
Subpar Spatula
Banned
You say The Dark Knight is thematically more complex then hate on Rachel Dawes subplot which plays into Bruce Wayne...
Not sure what you're going for here, you either think its a pro or a con because both are intertwined.
Not sure what you're going for here, you either think its a pro or a con because both are intertwined.
SolidChamp
Banned
I've always liked the editing and pacing of Batman Begins more...but I'm about to revisit the trilogy soon so I'll reassess my position on this.
Astral Dog
Member
The Dark Knight Rises
disappeared
Banned
I was pretty lukewarm on Begins. It just kind of happened and that was it. TDK however was like it hit the ground running and never slowed down. More memorable.
PleaseDontBanMe
Banned
Controversial opinion incoming:
IMO Dark Knight had little to no real plot at all. It all just seemed so random. Randomness from scene to scene. I guess that's what happens when The Jokers in the midst.
Begins felt much more like a well thought out structured story
IMO Dark Knight had little to no real plot at all. It all just seemed so random. Randomness from scene to scene. I guess that's what happens when The Jokers in the midst.
Begins felt much more like a well thought out structured story
JustSomeone
Member
Bale's Batman is boring,so TDK
Goldenroad
Member
I think I prefer the Dark Knight, but it might just be because I've seen BB too many times. The beginning of that movie is just so slow, especially on repeated viewings.
crimzonflame
Member
The last act of BB really brings it down.
Inferno313
Banned
Huh? It's like the most plot-heavy blockbuster of the 2000s.
It rules though. My vote goes firmly in the TDK camp. It's a more consistent film, Begins loses itself in the third act just a bit. It's a more emotional film. It's a more beautiful looking film. It's a more thrilling film. Begins is great, don't get me wrong, but I like just about every aspect of TDK just a bit better, with the exception of Batman's own arc.
I do love that it feels more like the story of Gotham as a whole. Gordon and Dent's arcs are both very compelling. We usually don't get such rich arcs for supporting characters in these movies.
I feel like you can say the same thing about Dark Knight though, because the third act is the weakest part of that movie too
Don't you mean fourth act? That film practically adheres to a four act narrative structure.
ok i mean the final act in both movies
Sweet Bellic
Member
TDK has the Joker and Two-Face in one film, so it wins by default. I even prefer TDKR to Begins... it has Catwoman and Bane ffs. Super hero films without memorable villains seldom click with me.
SomewhatGroovy
Banned
Begins is better by a wide margin though the last act lets up just a bit. I remember reading the leaked screenplay before production started and was more moved by what i read than what i eventually saw on the big screen.
As much as I worship Heath Ledger, the script and plot in DK asks us to suspend a lot of disbelief that I will never be able to. I mean, the Joker had planned to be locked up in a waiting room with security INSIDE the room with him rather than outside. Shit like that annoyed me when it released. I just didn't buy the 6th degree master chess BS
As much as I worship Heath Ledger, the script and plot in DK asks us to suspend a lot of disbelief that I will never be able to. I mean, the Joker had planned to be locked up in a waiting room with security INSIDE the room with him rather than outside. Shit like that annoyed me when it released. I just didn't buy the 6th degree master chess BS
Begins has a pulpy/kitschy charm thats hard not to love, especially if you like Batman.
I think TDK is overall better though - it works as a solid film, a great meditation on superheroes, and has several iconic performances. Good art aspires to say something and I think TDK does indeed have something to say, versus Begins being a solid Batman flick.
I think TDK is overall better though - it works as a solid film, a great meditation on superheroes, and has several iconic performances. Good art aspires to say something and I think TDK does indeed have something to say, versus Begins being a solid Batman flick.
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
I believe The Dark Knight is the better film but I prefer the slightly more fantastical vibe of Begins. I can accept Batman's presence in the world of Begins but he just looks like an idiot in a Bat costume in the crime thriller reality of TDK. That's why I'll always prefer the Burton version despite the many liberties he took. His Batman makes perfect sense within his depiction Gotham. Can't really say the same for Nolan's.
Returns > Mask of the Phantasm > The Dark Knight > Batman 89 > Batman Begins > BvS > Batman Forever > Batman & Robin
I can't really rank Rises. Sometimes I adore it, sometimes I just laugh at the action scenes. Depends on my mood.
Returns > Mask of the Phantasm > The Dark Knight > Batman 89 > Batman Begins > BvS > Batman Forever > Batman & Robin
I can't really rank Rises. Sometimes I adore it, sometimes I just laugh at the action scenes. Depends on my mood.
Yeah, TDK Joker somehow gets Batman's prep-time super power and uses it to a ridiculous degree. Which is why the chase scene really takes me out of the whole movie because the only way that entire chunk of the movie even works is if Joker can basically see the future.
SomewhatGroovy
Banned
Right. Two mins after he gets out of the interogation room or whatever and is holding a gun to dude's head, he asks for a phone to make a call. So somewhere weeks prior, Joker is laying on a floor in his jammies writing a scheme going "and then they'll lock me in an interogation room with someone who i can troll, he'll also have a gun, i'll use that gun to hold him hostage and not only will i be successful and will he not over power me, when i ask for his colleagues for a phone, they'll oblige..."
hahaha, man. I just can't.
They're both different enough and good enough at what they do differently to not be in contest, imo.
Begins is like a Tim Burton inspired nursery-rhyme of a nightmare. The city feels like a character itself like it might just snatch Bats from the air while he's learning the ropes. It's really that dramatic at times, all Gothic and looming. It's much more claustrophobic and often looks like a horror movie, but it feels very much framed like a comic book.
TDK is a Michael Mann movie. Like, it is a Michael Mann movie. It's a really good take on Heat with the Batman gallery. Even if the detective work is the most ridiculous part of a movie about a traumatised billionaire dressing up as an rodent to scare criminals, it's still a great crime movie set inside a comic book rather than framed like one.
Begins is like the nightmare Bruce goes through to become Batman and the horrors it inspires, and TDK is the cold light of day of that becoming reality. They feel like very different films but work so well in sequence. I couldn't choose.
Begins is like a Tim Burton inspired nursery-rhyme of a nightmare. The city feels like a character itself like it might just snatch Bats from the air while he's learning the ropes. It's really that dramatic at times, all Gothic and looming. It's much more claustrophobic and often looks like a horror movie, but it feels very much framed like a comic book.
TDK is a Michael Mann movie. Like, it is a Michael Mann movie. It's a really good take on Heat with the Batman gallery. Even if the detective work is the most ridiculous part of a movie about a traumatised billionaire dressing up as an rodent to scare criminals, it's still a great crime movie set inside a comic book rather than framed like one.
Begins is like the nightmare Bruce goes through to become Batman and the horrors it inspires, and TDK is the cold light of day of that becoming reality. They feel like very different films but work so well in sequence. I couldn't choose.
PleaseDontBanMe
Banned
i feel the same
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