Deified Data
Banned
Not having much experience in the area myself, I'd hazard a guess that being discriminated against never loses its edge. I could be wrong.
White people can't experience racism?
- Thread starter Choke on the Magic
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Not having much experience in the area myself, I'd hazard a guess that being discriminated against never loses its edge. I could be wrong.
Ravensmash
Member
This is a horrible argument, and exactly why the world is so full of conflict.
"Someone in the past who looked like you did something bad to people who look like me!"
Phat Michael
Banned
Yes there is - esp in other countries. Go to india, you are a "Gora" go to Singapore - you are an "ang mo"
2 countries where whites are the minorities.
Devolution
Member
I'd say it's more about imperialism backlash than racism. It just so happens there is a color line. That's his point. Same thing tends to happen in countries where the race is the same but the nationalities or ethnicities are different.
R10Neymarfan
Member
Elaborate more on this hypothetical, did these black men attack a white man?
In fact maybe we should just leave it as a hypothetical.
I think the definition of racism should be held in the hands of those who are mostly oppressed, which is a highly unpopular opinion that most of my white friends disagree with. How I keep them around with my particular views? I must be a pretty likable person or I just keep my mouth shut to keep my friendships. You decide.
My grandmother was essentially evicted from a neighborhood she lived in for 60 years because she was white and the new residents Chinese.
stufte
Member
Does it matter? The fact that they had power in numbers over someone of a different skin color, by your definition, makes it racism.
rocketknight
Member
I think your experiences in an interracial relationship are interesting and I'm glad you shared them. I'd definitely read more if you wanted to elaborate about what kinds of things you and your wife laugh off and what your ideas about talking to your kids are, but I understand why you wouldn't get into it. I haven't had either of those experiences.
It's not an argument, it's a clarification between racism and the historical context of colonialism. You can pretend that doesn't exist, but pretending doesn't change the fact that it does, and pushing that anger off onto something as simplistic as "they just hate whites/asians/blacks/etc." when the truth is more complex is simply dishonest.
I meant white people in general. I don't really identify as a Jew too much, because I wasn't raised as one, but I see your point.
Deified Data
Banned
This. It's still a piss-poor excuse for prejudice, but it's based more in historical context than race relations.
captmcblack
Member
Yes, they can experience it.
Yes, they can be victims of it.
Yes, they may even be offended by it or feel personally hurt by it.
It's not as likely in a USA-centric context that they will compared to non-white people, though. And it's not as likely in a world-centric context that whatever they experience will be a systemic experience that restricts their socioeconomic movement, or their ability to exist/participate in any cultural activities. And it's very, very unlikely to have a historical context or a cultural context it occurs in, and definitely not one that exists preemptively (read: anti-white prejudices likely didn't occur outside of it being a reprisal for anti-ethnic prejudices).
That is the relevant portion, at least for sake of argument anyway.
Yes, they can be victims of it.
Yes, they may even be offended by it or feel personally hurt by it.
It's not as likely in a USA-centric context that they will compared to non-white people, though. And it's not as likely in a world-centric context that whatever they experience will be a systemic experience that restricts their socioeconomic movement, or their ability to exist/participate in any cultural activities. And it's very, very unlikely to have a historical context or a cultural context it occurs in, and definitely not one that exists preemptively (read: anti-white prejudices likely didn't occur outside of it being a reprisal for anti-ethnic prejudices).
That is the relevant portion, at least for sake of argument anyway.
He did, It was a great post but I will argue Devils Advocate for disscussion purposes and say that White Privilige is only going to exist in a White Society, No?
What would really happen if you put a white man in the middle of a foreign country? He would have to fight against whatever prejudice is in place over there be it a Latin American Society, Black Society, Asian Society...
He's gonna feel it, full on.
The Faceless Master
Member
the context was pretty clear, or at least it was to me.
no, not to me but i can understand why others would feel otherwise.
Unless people of other races are genetically different than white people in not being racist and all white people are one uniform group, yes white people can experience racism.
I consider anyone who thinks that any group can't experience racism to be racist. It is not a debatable issue.
If the point is: This group experiences more racism, so don't belitlte that bysaying we too have problems so it does not matter" then that point is reasonable and different than saying that the problems of other people don't matter or count.
I consider anyone who thinks that any group can't experience racism to be racist. It is not a debatable issue.
If the point is: This group experiences more racism, so don't belitlte that bysaying we too have problems so it does not matter" then that point is reasonable and different than saying that the problems of other people don't matter or count.
Choke on the Magic
Banned
Dude I don't know you personally like that, but I think I know how black people feel now when white people ask where white history month is. Racism is racism.
Head of Vengarl
Banned
I remember in middle school I wanted to play basketball with a group of Asians many of these kids I had known since elementary school but they told me "no white people allowed." I remember walking away in disbelief, because white people like me aren't supposed to be subject to racism.
I'm pretty much a white guy (part Japanese) who everyone thinks is a Mexican, so I get lots of remarks about strawberry picking and landscaping and racial slurs that are directed towards Mexicans. Does this count as a white guy experiencing racism? Or is this a whole new sort of ignorant?
Skimming through I've seen no one defends the idea of systematic discrimination against whites. I'd like to stay neutral but also I want to make sure the opposite argument is shown:
The common argument is:
-Diversity-valued projects force things to be judged by their race and will value non-white over whites for other reasons than their own ability. That race aware options can be harmful to whites and non-whites. Further, cases like Grutter v. Bollinger defend that people can favor races in admission procedures, making it not institutionalized racism in a sociological aspect but directly in the business' procedures.
-Discrimination towards whites to be believed to be racist while others victims to. They believe the "racist" label is particularly effective against whites and point towards the apologetics of the apartheid race riots and some social cases in America to defend it. I have no clue what they link anymore so I won't care to argue their point there.
But this is just stuff I heard. I do favor anonymous application procedures, that's a grand option to me, but to talk of how society as a whole views something I can't see without evidence, and there is already evidence to the contrary.
The common argument is:
-Diversity-valued projects force things to be judged by their race and will value non-white over whites for other reasons than their own ability. That race aware options can be harmful to whites and non-whites. Further, cases like Grutter v. Bollinger defend that people can favor races in admission procedures, making it not institutionalized racism in a sociological aspect but directly in the business' procedures.
-Discrimination towards whites to be believed to be racist while others victims to. They believe the "racist" label is particularly effective against whites and point towards the apologetics of the apartheid race riots and some social cases in America to defend it. I have no clue what they link anymore so I won't care to argue their point there.
But this is just stuff I heard. I do favor anonymous application procedures, that's a grand option to me, but to talk of how society as a whole views something I can't see without evidence, and there is already evidence to the contrary.
CrashBandicoot
Member
They get their own room? No whites allowed huh?
White people can obviously experience racism, there were posts in that thread where people talked about being regularly beaten by kids of other race in their neighbourhood. Just because they are white doesn't make it any different.
I'd say something about institutionalised racism but its already been covered really.
No matter what your race, if you are a target of hate (discrimination, assault, belittlement, what have you) because of your race it is racism.
Americans are tolerant of hate towards white people, mostly because Americas past is full of white people holding other races back (killing, enslaving, jim crow, company towns, etc.)
As a white immigrant, my direct lineage experienced racism, from white people, because of my families country of birth.
Elitism has been a major force for creating racism, but, it is not the only place it is born.
directing hate towards some random white guy (because he is white), for the sins of other white guys is still racism. But, it is something I understand.
We should, though, hate people for the content of their character, and not because of the color of their skin.
Americans are tolerant of hate towards white people, mostly because Americas past is full of white people holding other races back (killing, enslaving, jim crow, company towns, etc.)
As a white immigrant, my direct lineage experienced racism, from white people, because of my families country of birth.
Elitism has been a major force for creating racism, but, it is not the only place it is born.
directing hate towards some random white guy (because he is white), for the sins of other white guys is still racism. But, it is something I understand.
We should, though, hate people for the content of their character, and not because of the color of their skin.
That's unpopular because its a load of crap. Racism is plain and simple - having a prejudicial attitude towards a person purely because of their race. That's pretty much indisputable. Anybody who wants to lay claim to the 'power' of redefining it on their own terms is likely trying to find ways to validate their cries of victimization, not trying to find a common ground for the sake of rational discussion.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Of course white people can experience racism, discrimination, prejudice, etc. Anyone who denies that is delusional.
Amakusa
Member
I lolled. I've experienced racism and I'm white. I don't know how anyone could say that racism against white people doesn't exist. That's a very naive and ignorant thing to say.
Racism exists among all races and in every country.
The mindset in the US seems to differ from the one in Europe. But I guess that has more to do with its dark past and tensions associated with that.
Racism exists among all races and in every country.
The mindset in the US seems to differ from the one in Europe. But I guess that has more to do with its dark past and tensions associated with that.
They get their own room? No whites allowed huh?
White people can obviously experience racism, there were posts in that thread where people talked about being regularly beaten by kids of other race in their neighbourhood. Just because they are white doesn't make it any different.
I'd say something about institutionalised racism but its already been covered really.
If you're getting beat up only because you're of a certain skin color by a group of people with shared values/ideas/etc, that's an example of instituionalized racism on a normative level according to a lot of definitions of the word "institution".
Insitutions aren't a clear cut word, and many people here use a very narrow everyday definition of the word here. I'd guess that the simplest definition would be constraints created by humans that affect the behavior of people, which includes both restricting and enabling behavior. It doesn't have to be on a legislative level or by the people with a lot of power on a macro scale.
100% agree with you brother, I really do. You get it 100%
Racism in america is the air, not the wind. So in America, it would be hard for a white person to experience racism over racial prejudice or racial discrimination. Those are things that white people can experience, but they were not socialized and systemically included into the way of life.
And that is the difference.
And that is the difference.
Spring-Loaded
Member
People posting garbage like this.
If this is the attitude held you're just purveying racism in general. Anyway I'd like to hear this posters perspective on it if they feel this way beyond a jpg post. It's not much of a disscussion if everyone agrees and those who disagree only post a pic.
Do you know how many more threads would be made if everyone made them response to individual shit posts?
Thorakai's response is the answer you're looking for, OP.
I miss ofay. It's been forever since I heard a white guy called ofay.
stufte
Member
So it's ok to be racist if someone was racist to you?
Are we talking about someone responding directly to a racist comment with another racist comment?
Or are we talking about someone, somewhere who was white was racist, and now whites in general are open season to be racist toward.
Choke on the Magic
Banned
A lot of the things we laugh off are the unintentional racist things. Which is why I made the example of the teacher on everybody hates chris. Other things that are more bothersome are comments made sometimes by some of our family members regarding the appearance of our children. Nothing truly malicious, but little things regarding how our children favor my race or hers. One specific example was after the whole Trayvon Martin verdict in a conversation with her aunt and cousin she was told that our kids aren't really black so they will never understand or experience what black people go through. It was said to her in a negative manner. On the flip side some members of my family (sister, sister in law) basically said the same, but meant in a positive way. My wife and I have discussed it in great length about this and we honestly don't know how to take it at times. I don't know any IR couples (with kids at least) so we are kind of on our own with dealing with some of these issues. We both know that we want our children to embrace both cultures and naturally we want to protect them from the possible hate and discrimination they might face.
impact said:
Joke post? How am I racist again?
My thoughts on certain topics often get marginalized here on GAF and elsewhere, due solely to my gender and the color of my skin. This happens even when I've made no use of my personal experiences as evidence for my points, thus making my (lack of) experiences irrelevant to the topic. I am often ascribed motives I do not have (oppression of women, maintaining my privilege, etc.) and my thoughts belittled because of those false motives. I am sometimes told I have no right to speak on certain things.
That being said, while speech and the freedom to express ideas is a core part of the human experience, the racist dismissal I experience on an internet forum is merely a small fraction of the frustration and/ suffering felt by those afflicted by institutionalized racism. I don't feel a need for sweeping social change to fix my plights on the internet, like I feel we need sweeping social change to address the plights of minorities.
But to answer your question, yes, it exists, and just because other people have it far, far worse does not mean that we should ourselves practice the relatively-insignificant racist behaviors.
That being said, while speech and the freedom to express ideas is a core part of the human experience, the racist dismissal I experience on an internet forum is merely a small fraction of the frustration and/ suffering felt by those afflicted by institutionalized racism. I don't feel a need for sweeping social change to fix my plights on the internet, like I feel we need sweeping social change to address the plights of minorities.
But to answer your question, yes, it exists, and just because other people have it far, far worse does not mean that we should ourselves practice the relatively-insignificant racist behaviors.
I think context is important and to some people the context is assumed, and to others it isn't.
And then you have the people ready to "rebel'.
Yup. Its basically kind of human nature to oppress minorities. I'm not saying that excuses it, just as sleeping with many females is in our nature and it doesn't excuse cheating, but it IS why it happens. Don't for a second think that any race is above it.
As a white American, I'm disliked by many blacks AND foreigners purely because of my race and my nationality. In their eyes, I'm automatically a bad person or some ignorant redneck, respectively. I've experienced both forms of prejudice many times. I can deal with it, but knowing that these people have some sort of superiority complex to go along with it really bothers me. Reverse racism is exactly the same sort of attitude that keeps the wars in the Middle East going on forever. One side persecutes the other, and the other side demonizes that side in return, creating a chicken and egg scenario, where its perpetual hate no matter which side you're on. Its nonsense and not enough people *learn* from it and are able to be a better person as a result.
All it tells me is that we, as a species, still have a good ways to go, despite all the progress we've made.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I don't think he understands your post.
Here's what I'm talking about;
Most anti-white racism stems from bitterness and anger over past and current racial slights. Most anti-minority racism stems from perceived superiority over non-white groups, and maintaining white privilege. For example, on the surface, the KKK and the Black Panthers may seem like similar organizations, but their roots are vastly different from each other. One formed in an effort to maintain the racist status-quo, and commit terrorist acts to repress minority rights. The other formed as a reaction to oppression and violence against black people by a corrupt police force and political system. It took law enforcement decades to finally go after the Klan. It took law enforcement a couple of months to go after the original Black Panthers.
Now can there be racism against whites outside of that? Sure. A black manager may hire a black candidate over a white candidate. However, an incident like that is exceedingly rare, and may simply result from the black manager wanting to give a black guy a chance because he has less prospects than the white candidate.
A group of black criminals could specifically target white people to rob them. However, is that because they're white, or is it because whites tend to be wealthier than black people?.I've heard people use such a scenario as an example of black racism towards whites, but that scenario is based more on economics than the race of the victims.
Spring-Loaded
Member
It doesn't make it okay. It does make it different and since the OP seems to not be satisfied with just a bunch of posts saying "duh," that probably going to be discussed at some point. Anyone trying to equate all types of racism will probably be told that.
It shouldn't be acceptable at all, but it can be understandabl in certain circumstances. "Acceptable" and "understandable" are not the same, but it can be helpful to understand why someone has racist beliefs or why they make racial epithets, however.
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