White people can't experience racism?

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PogiJones said:
My thoughts on certain topics often get marginalized here on GAF and elsewhere, due solely to my gender and the color of my skin. This happens even when I've made no use of my personal experiences as evidence for my points, thus making my (lack of) experiences irrelevant to the topic. I am often ascribed motives I do not have (oppression of women, maintaining my privilege, etc.) and my thoughts belittled because of those false motives. I am sometimes told I have no right to speak on certain things.

That being said, while speech and the freedom to express ideas is a core part of the human experience, the racist dismissal I experience on an internet forum is merely a small fraction of the frustration and/ suffering felt by those afflicted by institutionalized racism. I don't feel a need for sweeping social change to fix my plights on the internet, like I feel we need sweeping social change to address the plights of minorities.

But to answer your question, yes, it exists, and just because other people have it far, far worse does not mean that we should ourselves practice the relatively-insignificant racist behaviors.
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You do realize that your posts sounds like a passive aggressive rant from an ignorant person who has a lot of opinions that are flat out offensive to a lot of people?
Your issue might be your opinions and ignorance, while being in a privileged position, in that case instead of explicitly your gender and color of your skin. Kinda like when people are against gay marriage, and then say that people are infringing on their religious freedom when people get angry at them.
 
Trojita said:
I don't think he understands your post.
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I'm not sure I can explain it any better.

Spring-Loaded said:
Do you know how many more threads would be made if everyone made them response to individual shit posts?

Thorakai's response is the answer you're looking for, OP.
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Sure, but this thread was in regards to a comment I disagreed with whole heartedly and left an open invitation to make a thread on the matter. Making this thread kept the other thread from being derailed and I think it's been a good discussion so far. Thorakai's response I think sums it up pretty well for me, but hypernima's comment and further explained views don't set well with me. I understand the difference between institutionalized racism and racism. hypernima is saying something completely different.
 
any human can experience racism, discrimination and prejudice.

going into semantics about definitions = stupid

white people can face racism.

White people are racist towards other whites just as much as some blacks are racist towards other blacks.

Check the Protestants vs the Catholics in Northern Ireland. Whites hating on other whites.

check Hutu vs Tutsi in Rwanda. Blacks hating on other blacks
 
Sure, obviously they can. But I don't see the point of this thread? Black people come out and talk about racism because of the trayvon martin case so you figured we should talk about all the racism white people face on the day to day?
 
Jay-B said:
It's not that it's impossible, it's that the probability of experiencing racism as a white person in Europe/NA is comparatively minuscule.
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Unless you're an Italian in Germany/Austria/South Tyrol (that one actually goes both directions), or a German in Rome, or a French in Germany/UK... Racism is alive and well in Europe.
 
Monsieur said:
Sure, obviously they can. But I don't see the point of this thread? Black people come out and talk about racism because of the trayvon martin case so you figured we should talk about all the racism white people face on the day to day?
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This thread is a commentary on a different thread. It's in the OP.
 
All of us in this discussion are humbled and reasonable people.. so how has the practice of institutionalized racisim still prevalent in 2013?? I trust that a majority of people are beyond such sentiments so why does it continue??

I believe it is truly the ones who hold power that continue to foster the system put in place. The direct gripholders of society.. the bankers, large lobbyist groups, politicitans and who ever else scared to let go whatever foothold has been set for them. I think people have had enough for the main part but nothing will ever change if we don't remove the ignorance out of positions of power. It will only continue to grow if we don't put an end to it.
 
gutter_trash said:
any human can experience racism, discrimination and prejudice.

going into semantics about definitions = stupid

white people can face racism.

White people are racist towards other whites just as much as some blacks are racist towards other blacks.

Check the Protestants vs the Catholics in Northern Ireland. Whites hating on other whites.

check Hutu vs Tutsi in Rwanda. Blacks hating on other blacks
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Be careful with this. Lots of people LOVE to call out these sorts of comments as 'not racist' because its not actually based on race.

Its still prejudicial attitudes and that's all racism is, but there's a very large percentage of people who somehow feel that racism is worse than other forms of discrimination. I find it equally appalling, but some others feel that hating others on things other than race isn't nearly as bad as hating them for their color.
 
Seanspeed said:
Be careful with this. Lots of people LOVE to call out these sorts of comments as 'not racist' because its not actually based on race.

Its still prejudicial attitudes and that's all racism is, but there's a very large percentage of people who somehow feel that racism is worse than other forms of discrimination. I find it equally appalling, but some others feel that hating others on things other than race isn't nearly as bad as hating them for their color.
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LOL not as bad? Like genocide in Rwanda?

yeah Genocide is not bad because it's the same color? LOL

remember Bosnia?
 
DigitalOp said:
All of us in this discussion are humbled and reasonable people.. so how has the practice of institutionalized racisim still prevalent in 2013?? I trust that a majority of people are beyond such sentiments so why does it continue??

I believe it is truly the ones who hold power that continue to foster the system put in place. The direct gripholders of society.. the bankers, large lobbyist groups, politicitans and who ever else scared to let go whatever foothold has been set for them. I think people have had enough for the main part but nothing will ever change if we don't remove the ignorance out of positions of power. It will only continue to grow if we don't put an end to it.
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Because we actually talk about it. We are more exposed to other people's issues.

There's a massive percentage of people who don't. They aren't active in forum discussions or civil rights issues. They just have their simplistic views on things and they stick to them and spread them. Its very easy to make an ignorant stance sound persuasive to somebody else who is also ignorant. We are very imperfect and I think our world-views are improved by many fold by talking to other, different, people about it. Its easy to get trapped into your own belief ecosystems with like-minded individuals. It takes some actual effort to branch out and get into more uncomfortable or controversial discussions about things that may challenge your long-held beliefs. It also requires an open-mind. These are things that aren't exactly in abundance.
 
DigitalOp said:
All of us in this discussion are humbled and reasonable people.. so how has the practice of institutionalized racisim still prevalent in 2013?? I trust that a majority of people are beyond such sentiments so why does it continue??
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Because there are still a lot of people who are racists, consciously or sub-consciously.
 
In terms of the entire population of the human race, Caucasian's are the minority. So there's more places in the world for whites to experience racism than there are for blacks and Asians.
 
People really need to get over the fact there is institutional racism, and individual racism, and both suck, but both will not always apply.
 
I think if there was a form a racism for whites you wouldn't really hear about it, in say, a news broadcast. Mainly because every other ethnicity would see it as a joke or even take offense since they feel that just being white has its own benefits. Which I agree with on some level. Even though that's unrelated to the discussion somewhat.

Would love to hear genuine acts of racism towards whites. Cuss unless your the lone white guy in an all black school I can't really think of any situations where it could be taken seriously.
 
I'm a white person with a "black" name. Or at least people assume it's black. I sometimes wonder if my resume has every been overlooked because of my name. I don't think I have.
 
Obviously they can. If they are in a non-white country (or even neighborhood) where they are the minority. They can also be discriminated against if they are immigrants. Such as the Irish or Southern Europeans in the US in the 19th century. Hell, I have family members that were discriminated against for being immigrants in Montreal and they are white.
 
Monsieur said:
I think if there was a form a racism for whites you wouldn't really hear about it, in say, a news broadcast. Mainly because every other ethnicity would see it as a joke or even take offense since they feel that just being white has its own benefits. Which I agree with on some level. Even though that's unrelated to the discussion somewhat.

Would love to hear genuine acts of racism towards whites. Cuss unless your the lone white guy in an all black school I can't really think of any situations where it could be taken seriously.
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Disgusting attitude, really.

Racism is ALWAYS wrong and its always a problem. Dismissing it because 'they have other benefits' is totally missing the point of why racism exists and what can be done to change our entire species for the better in terms of combating it.

People should start looking beyond just 'racism' and see that prejudicial attitudes in general are what causes it. Its xenophobia and dislike of 'people that are different', not just race.
 
ksan said:
You do realize that your posts sounds like a passive aggressive rant from an ignorant person who has a lot of opinions that are flat out offensive to a lot of people?
Your issue might be your opinions and ignorance, while being in a privileged position, in that case instead of explicitly your gender and color of your skin. Kinda like when people are against gay marriage, and then say that people are infringing on their religious freedom when people get angry at them.
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I have no problem when people counter my arguments, or give me new knowledge. I'm expressly talking about when my opinion is dismissed just because of my race+sex combination. Sometimes it will be in the form of "you haven't gone through x, y and z, so you wouldn't know." If they want to call me uninformed (and then inform me) or wrong, I'm fine with that as long as the actual issues are the things being addressed. Ad hominem dismissals are only non-fallacious if the credibility of the person receiving the ad hominem has a bearing on the ideas/evidence presented (e.g., a man with 20/3000 vision testifying he saw the murder 300 yards away). Otherwise, the ad hominems are fallacious, in that they do not address the argument. If, for example, someone asserts that there is no racism against blacks in America, and then I proceed to cite evidence that there is, a claim of, "You're not even black, you wouldn't know" dismisses evidence that my whiteness has no bearing on. It's just a lazy way to avoid expending mental energy on an opposing view by dismissing the presenter.
 
CornBurrito said:
Yeah but they saw that to everyone that isnt Japanese, not just white people. And I thought they hated Koreans and the Chinese ffffffffffffaaaaaaaar more than anyone else.
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Yup, like I said - its xenophobia and just a plain dislike of people that are different.

Racism is just a sub-category of prejudice. But to many, its such an overpowering word compared to other forms of prejudice that some people freely interchange the word 'racism' with 'prejudice' even of something non-race related.
 
PogiJones said:
I have no problem when people counter my arguments, or give me new knowledge. I'm expressly talking about when my opinion is dismissed just because of my race+sex combination. Sometimes it will be in the form of "you haven't gone through x, y and z, so you wouldn't know." If they want to call me uninformed (and then inform me) or wrong, I'm fine with that as long as the actual issues are the things being addressed. Ad hominem dismissals are only non-fallacious if the credibility of the person receiving the ad hominem has a bearing on the ideas/evidence presented (e.g., a man with 20/3000 vision testifying he saw the murder 300 yards away). Otherwise, the ad hominems are fallacious, in that they do not address the argument. If, for example, someone asserts that there is no racism against blacks in America, and then I proceed to cite evidence that there is, a claim of, "You're not even black, you wouldn't know" dismisses evidence that my whiteness has no bearing on. It's just a lazy way to avoid expending mental energy on an opposing view by dismissing the presenter.
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Are you sure it's not the way you present your opinion then?
Otherwise I'm open to the option of me being on the wrong track as I've seen people people dismiss opinions that way here, however most of those people usually don't last very long, but some do. And I gotta admit it's hard to know if the ways you've been dismissed have been fair or not as I don't know anything about your previous post history, but just saw how you posted and what you said.
 
I guess the person OP was posting about has never seen the Irish bashing political cartoons from the mid to late 1800's where Irish Americans are depicted as apes.
 
Carnby said:
I'm a white person with a "black" name. Or at least people assume it's black. I sometimes wonder if my resume has every been overlooked because of my name. I don't think I have.
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I have a pretty standard Jewish last name, and remember being called a "himey kike" in middle/high school by kids of all ethnicities and backgrounds. Best part is, I'm not Jewish.
 
Seanspeed said:
Disgusting attitude, really.

Racism is ALWAYS wrong and its always a problem. Dismissing it because 'they have other benefits' is totally missing the point of why racism exists and what can be done to change our entire species for the better in terms of combating it.

People should start looking beyond just 'racism' and see that prejudicial attitudes in general are what causes it. Its xenophobia and dislike of 'people that are different', not just race.
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Well first of all, all I said was you wouldn't hear about it in the news because no other ethnicity would take it seriously (which is fact). I dont really have a strong opinion about it because i have never read or seen it before.

I mean having a black guy walk up to a white guy as he shouts cracker isn't really that big of a deal. Nor is other ethnicites having negative feelings towards whites because they feel like they have wronged them, which may or may not be true.

As a Hispanic the only form of real racism towards whites that i have witnessed was when i was in high school. I went to a predominately black/Hispanic school and the white people would get picked on sometimes. I mean it wasn't anything too big, kids usually like to pick on people that are different from them.

Now besides that I can't think of anything in the United States that even most whites would care enough about for it to be a social issue.
 
CornBurrito said:
Really? What do people say?
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lots of pointing and angry stares, being watched closely in stores like you are going to steal something, people cutting in front of you in line, people openly making disparaging comments about my half japanese fiancee ( who was born there) to her dad
 
ksan said:
Are you sure it's not the way you present your opinion then?
Otherwise I'm open to the option of me being on the wrong track as I've seen people people dismiss opinions that way here, however most of those people usually don't last very long, but some do. And I gotta admit it's hard to know if the ways you've been dismissed have been fair or not as I don't know anything about your previous post history, but just saw how you posted and what you said.
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I don't blame you for reading it that way. I actually felt a little whiny for writing it (especially considering I've written about it before), but I felt it was relevant to answering the OP's question, so I wrote it anyway. I'm just not sure how to write about what I've felt was racist treatment without it also sounding like I have a persecution complex. I try to disclaimer-away that tone, but it doesn't ever seem to work. How does one write about unfair treatment without sounding whiny, especially when the unfair treatment pales in comparison to others' unfair treatment?
 
Monsieur said:
I mean having a black guy walk up to a white guy as he shouts cracker isn't really that big of a deal. Nor is other ethnicites having negative feelings towards whites because they feel like they have wronged them, which may or may not be true.
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Fucking christ. You cant be serious.

THIS is why racism is still an issue. The root problem is not being addressed.

Racism should not be the main focus. We need to address tolerance and judgement based on individual actions in general.
 
Actually saying that white people can't experience racism is as silly as saying that black people can't do that, "because human races are just a construct".

Due to the history of ethnical conflicts and the usage of the term racism, it makes much more sense to have a broader definition than only skin colors.

The question here seems to be, can white people experience racism in the US today? There's no doubt that some groups of white people have experienced racism in the past.
 
Seanspeed said:
Fucking christ. You cant be serious.

THIS is why racism is still an issue. The root problem is not being addressed.

Racism should not be the main focus. We need to address tolerance and judgement based on individual actions in general.
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How about you address my entire post instead of a section of it.
 
ksan said:
Actually saying that white people can't experience racism is as silly as saying that black people can't do that, "because human races are just a construct".

Due to the history of ethnical conflicts and the usage of the term racism, it makes much more sense to have a broader definition than only skin colors.

The question here seems to be, can white people experience racism in the US today? There's no doubt that some groups of white people have experienced racism in the past.
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I don't think anyone is denying that. It seems to be more of an issue of 'Well racism against whites aint a big deal', going by personal experience and even comments here.

And its ridiculous and actually makes me quite upset. This whole idea of 'battling racism' is a red herring. We need to combat prejudicial attitudes in general.

Monsieur said:
How about you address my entire post instead of a section of it.
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No. I addressed the part of it I thought was important(and disgusting) and I didn't take anything out of context. How about you come up with an actual rebuttal instead of dodging my comment?
 
Alligatorjandro said:
Of course they can. But they dont really experience institutional racism as much as other peoples do.
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This exactly. Most Americans are not racist, and most new laws are not racist, but centuries of systematic racism has created a cultural and financial divide between whites, and minorities. We should be less concerned about the few truly racist people in America, and more concerned with making an America where the idea of a black history month is irrelevant. We need to make an America that has cleansed the filth of past racism from our culture.
 
Seanspeed said:
Fucking christ. You cant be serious.

THIS is why racism is still an issue. The root problem is not being addressed.

Racism should not be the main focus. We need to address tolerance and judgement based on individual actions in general.
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I dislike the word tolerance, to me it seems like you still have a grudge but you'll put up with it or tolerate it.
IMO people need to be less self centered and more compassionate. If you see yourself in the other, they will stop being the other.
 
Seanspeed said:
I don't think anyone is denying that. It seems to be more of an issue of 'Well racism against whites aint a big deal', going by personal experience and even comments here.

And its ridiculous and actually makes me quite upset. This whole idea of 'battling racism' is a red herring. We need to combat prejudicial attitudes in general.
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Sorry, but what part? :p
DocTarHeel said:
One of my Sociology professors at college told us that white people cannot be subject to racism.
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Sounds like a pretty bad professor or an out of context quote.
 
racism against whites exists, but it's comparable to a man being beat by a woman (a tiny one)... It's bad, but there's worse offenses out there.

to give a gauge on where it stands. Racism against black people is like beating a child.



In short, man the fuck up white people, and deal with it. Every other race has it that much worse.
 
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