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[xsarien]

"Nintendo is ignoring the American male." I think we have the biggest, god damned straw man in the past five years; and I so wish someone would just take a can of gasoline, a lighter, and do away with it. It's petty, and horribly subjective reasoning.

What set the tenor for the GameCube's life wasn't Luigi's Mansion or Pikmin. It was a good, old-fashioned, market research fuck up that somehow told them that "indigo" was a popular color in the United States. The problem - what Nintendo didn't know - is that the average American thinks "indigo" is much closer to blue than what's actually on a color chart.

Oops.

So right from the start, the GameCube looked - literally - like something you'd toss in your kids' room, not something you'd put in your AV rack. Nintendo pushed the indigo system for a long time; it was the official color, it was in all of the PR. Sure the black one was available, but Nintendo didn't advertise it nearly as much. They were confusing people. "Wait, you want me to buy that purple thing? Are you nuts?"

The launch line up for the Gamecube - if you can't recall - included SSX Tricky, Madden 2002, Rogue Squadron 2, Crazy Taxi, Wave Race, Tony Hawk 3, and a few others. This was in addition to Luigi's Mansion. Those games are a perfectly solid, "mature" line up. The problem with the Gamecube then, which continued for God knows how long, was the marketing. The first impressions of the system really set the developer priorities, along with Nintendo's higher-than-average licensing fees for publishing games to the system. This, combined with Microsoft advertising the XBox as the digital equivalent of "The Man Show" only made things more desperate.

The damage to the system's image was done early on, and the "kiddy" mantra - to a degree became a self-fulfilling prophecy and a catch-22. Developers eschewed the system because they thought Nintendo was marketing it primarily to kids, and no one "mature" really wanted it over an XBox or PS2 because developers weren't putting the GTAs and Riddicks and X-Files on the system.

If Nintendo had gotten the system's ID right (for the masses, I happen to love the design), along with a marketing campaign that was less art house, more in-your face, games like Mario Sunshine, Mario Party, and Animal Crossing could co-exist just fine with the games designed to skew to an older audience, becoming Nintendo's ideal, family console.

They don't want to seem to admit that the PS2 already holds that title, incidentally.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

man, I cant wait the day Nintendo steps out of the HW business. "Nintendo this, Nintendo that, Why dont Nintendo, Why, Why, Why"..... So boring.

Yeah, Sega complaints have dropped off the face of the GAF in the last 4 years.

 

[ge-man]

Yeah, Sega complaints have dropped off the face of the GAF in the last 4 years.

:lol, that's a good point. I guess one could argue that's part of the reason this crappy article was made--it is hard for some people to let go even when they think such and such company is doing a bad job. There's an awful lot of "Nintendo needs to do better" posts and articles for an industry that has two other competitors.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

Yeah, Sega complaints have dropped off the face of the GAF in the last 4 years.

So why participate in a thread about Nintendo? I mean if people are sick of talking about Nintendo.

It makes no sense to me.

 

[aoi tsuki]

Nintendo doesn't make games with tits and blood?

AMERICAN MALES AM CRY

For the record, Sony and Microsoft systems don't have Nintendo games, which, for better or worse for Nintendo, is basically the main reason to buy the system.

 

[Insertia]

Then is the issue really Nintendo ignoring the American male or the American male ignoring nintendo?

uh, since when has it been the consumers job to seek out the coporation?
It's Nintendo's job to reach consumers, not the other way around.

Nintendo fans say the darndest things.

 

[Agent X]

Not only was it poorly thought out and poorly written, but it also showed an incredible lack of understanding of who actually makes the games. He blamed Nintendo for Madden and Spiderman being bad games.

The point is not simply to blame Nintendo over Madden or Spider-Man being bad games. Rather, he is inquiring why Nintendo doesn't have other mature games in their lineup that are better than those. That is where the heart of the argument is.

If a scant handful of crappy games are the best that Nintendo's system has to offer for older audiences, then Nintendo surely ought to take some blame over this. If third-party DS games aren't up to snuff, then it's Nintendo's task to step up to the plate and produce a healthy number of high quality first-party games to counteract it.

 

[MegaByte]

They may not realize that there are many adults out there now who grew up with Nintendo, and still want to connect with the company that was associated so strongly with video gaming in their youth.

Though it doesn't seem like it much of the time, I think they do recognize it because on Nintendo's retailer training site, a blurb circa GC/GBA launch mentions that the average gamer is 28.

 

[Dsal]

I don't know many people who bought a GC expecting any games made specifically for older people on it. They all bought it because they wanted Mario and Zelda and the other interesting things Nintendo might've come up with. I don't know anyone who bought it so that they could play Madden on it, that's for sure. Anyone out there who was realistically expecting the all-in-one system for both man and child was delusionally barking up the wrong tree and should've got a PS2.

I'm not sure why so many people out there want Nintendo to be all things to all people. Nintendo has never really made any real attempt to be this for over a decade now, so why do people still expect it from them?

 

[Any1]

I don't know many people who bought a GC expecting any games made specifically for older people on it. They all bought it because they wanted Mario and Zelda and the other interesting things Nintendo might've come up with. I don't know anyone who bought it so that they could play Madden on it, that's for sure. Anyone out there who was realistically expecting the all-in-one system for both man and child was delusionally barking up the wrong tree and should've got a PS2.

You say that as if it's a good thing. That is exactly the problem and why each gen less and less people are buying their console. The "Nintendo difference" is holding less sway year after year.

I'm not sure why so many people out there want Nintendo to be all things to all people. Nintendo has never really made any real attempt to be this for over a decade now, so why do people still expect it from them?

And do you honestly believe Nintendo doesn't want to be the console that is all things to all people. Their problem is not that they are this holier than thou corporation that cares more about gaming and family values than its competition, like alot of Nintendo fans like to suggest. Their problem is just completely misjudging the market. Their problem is believing in their own hype. They were on top for so long that it bred arrogance.

Don't beleive for one second that Nintendo doesn't covet Sonys reputation in the video game business. The fact of the matter is that Sony is just a smarter company and they realize something Nintendo seems to have forgotten which is the consumer is the one that dictates the industry not the corporation. Whereas Sony listens to what the public wants and makes suggestion and offers options accordingly based upon those wants. Nintendo seems to be in the business of telling its consumers what they want regardless if it is or isn't what they really want.

 

[GIR]

I think the real question is why people care this much for Nintendo to change? They're comfortable where they are at and there are countless other companies pushing the stuff that the American male (whoever that is) wants.

I think if Nintendo were a third party developer people would not care so much, they'd just be another developer making "kiddy" games for some other console, I wish people would just STFU and get over it, BLAME third party developers for the lack of "MACHOOAR" games on the GameCube, why is it Nintendo’s responsibility to make these games? This blame game just doesn’t happen in the music or movie industries.

 

[etiolate]

Is it a question of male insecurity vs Nintendo's games? Just ask this:

If that isn't so, then why do we keep seeing these articles asking Nintendo to change by people who like Nintendo games? Why don't they just enjoy their games and not worry about what place in people's minds Nintendo is? Why does Nintendo have to be cool for them? Because they want to be accepted, they want their interests reinforced, they want their games to make them cool. It's all about insecurity.

The basic formula is guns + cars. The demographic Sony and Microsoft go after is NOT everyone, its that same 18-35 or 40 male demo that so many industries go after. Females are ignored in game depiction and marketing. Kids? Sony might throw a character driven game they're way but those are aimed at teenagers even(Jak?). Microsoft thought they were gaining on Sony, but thats hard to do when you're eating from the same bowl and there's not only dogs eating there, but cats, birds and the whole animal kingdom.

And really, the media needs to wake up. Videogames are going to be another piece of pop trash before you can write another brilliant piece of "If I was Iwata". Why don't writers admit why they really want Mario GTA? They want the refined Nintendo gameplay, they want GTA without bugs and wacked aiming. But why talk of Nintendo's good points when you can whine about colors?

 

[soundwave05]

Is it a question of male insecurity vs Nintendo's games? Just ask this:

If that isn't so, then why do we keep seeing these articles asking Nintendo to change by people who like Nintendo games? Why don't they just enjoy their games and not worry about what place in people's minds Nintendo is? Why does Nintendo have to be cool for them? Because they want to be accepted, they want their interests reinforced, they want their games to make them cool. It's all about insecurity.

The basic formula is guns + cars. The demographic Sony and Microsoft go after is NOT everyone, its that same 18-35 or 40 male demo that so many industries go after. Females are ignored in game depiction and marketing. Kids? Sony might throw a character driven game they're way but those are aimed at teenagers even(Jak?). Microsoft thought they were gaining on Sony, but thats hard to do when you're eating from the same bowl and there's not only dogs eating there, but cats, birds and the whole animal kingdom.

And really, the media needs to wake up. Videogames are going to be another piece of pop trash before you can write another brilliant piece of "If I was Iwata". Why don't writers admit why they really want Mario GTA? They want the refined Nintendo gameplay, they want GTA without bugs and wacked aiming. But why talk of Nintendo's good points when you can whine about colors?

This post is so dead on its not even funny.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

You all are missing why the American demographic skips out on the Gamecube. IMO all Nintendo needs to do is change their visual style, and bring their game features into the 21st century.

I don't know about you, but can't watch a bubbly anime with hearts flying anywhere even if it has a good storyline. The general atmosphere of the show will turn me off in itself. Certain people feel that gory, over the top shows are unappealing, and it works the same way.\

Nintendo almost white-washes their games to be very kiddy-ish, when they should make their games so that it transcends age. Mario Kart GP (Arcade) Is how Mario Kart should have looked on the GC IMO. Metroid Prime was the right way to go. Super Mario Sunshine should have gone back to the coins instead of the child-drawn suns and bubbly smiley faces everywhere.

How Zelda looks now is how 'TWW' should have looked.

Pikmin was just an oddity. I don't know how they could have 'fixed' that game. Same for Paper Mario. I'm sure they had excellent gameplay, but for many it was disturbing to look at. It's like meeting someone with a dog with no skin as a pet. Sure, the animal has a great personality and is very obediant and such, but it's very hard to look at without being turned off.

Eternal Darkness I can see not appealing to many people. It was pretty fun for a while, but the game wore thin for me, and it struck me as something abstract, as if it would have not sold one-tenth as much as it did if not for Nintendo publishing it.

The second Resident Evil jumped shift from the Playstation, it lost it's appeal, because it was one of the few lonely games that had a pretty wide appeal on the Gamecube, with not much to back it up. Why gun for a console that does not have a lot of games that appeal to you.

The more realistic, "gritty" look appeaks to more people than the colorful, bouncy look Nintendo shoots for most of the time. Most gamers aren't as cuddly as Nintendo makes them out to be. The only thing Mature about it is the stamp provided by the ESRB. People don't look for Mature titles, but something that appeals to them.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Is the problem Nintendo or that they stand alone (almost, I'm exaggerating but in a way it's true) in being the sole provider of great content. Sony is kicking ass becuase of other's content on their system. I don't think I have ever bought a Sony game. But I'm all over Rockstar, Namco, EA, etc.

 

[ironichaos]

Why don't writers admit why they really want Mario GTA? They want the refined Nintendo gameplay, they want GTA without bugs and wacked aiming.

Yes, indeedy. But we also yearn to have the ability to smack Toad like the biatch he is.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

It's like meeting someone with a dog with no skin as a pet. Sure, the animal has a great personality and is very obediant and such, but it's very hard to look at without being turned off.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[shpankey]

Nintendo's been completely out of touch for a long long loooong time now.

 

[soundwave05]

Nintendo's been completely out of touch for a long long loooong time now.

Nintendo's never been in touch.

I mean please you think there was market research in the 80s that said a plumber eating mushrooms could sell 10-15 million copies?

I'm sure Atari or Sega would've loved to have gotten that report.

The biggest franchise of the 1990s was Pokemon (and continues to be mega popular today) and that was during a time when all trends were for more violent kinds of games.

It seems to me that Nintendo's biggest successes have come by just doing their own thing and not listening to anyone else. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn't.

Even with Nintendo's first big hit, Donkey Kong in arcades in 1982, Nintendo's sales department was pressuring the game designers to make more shooters because those were the popular types of game for the day. So Nintendo made Radar Scope, which flopped.

Miyamoto was then allowed to make Donkey Kong, which was weird and abstract but it went on to become the biggest arcade game of all time back then.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Nintendo's never been in touch.

I mean please you think there was market research in the 80s that said a plumber eating mushrooms could sell 10-15 million copies?

I'm sure Atari or Sega would've loved to have gotten that report.

The biggest franchise of the 1990s was Pokemon (and continues to be mega popular today) and that was during a time when all trends were for more violent kinds of games.

It seems to me that Nintendo's biggest successes have come by just doing their own thing and not listening to anyone else. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn't.

Even with Nintendo's first big hit, Donkey Kong in arcades in 1982, Nintendo's sales department was pressuring the game designers to make more shooters because those were the popular types of game for the day. So Nintendo made Radar Scope, which flopped.

Miyamoto was then allowed to make Donkey Kong, which was weird and abstract but it went on to become the biggest arcade game of all time back then.

You speak the truth, I think.

A lot of people don't seem to stop and wonder if maybe Nintendo doing everything possible to be as "in", trendy, cool, and hip with the masses MAY NOT BE THE BEST THING FOR THEM.

What's funny is, in the off-topic thread about Bugs Bunny being re-designed into the "edgy" 21st century edition, everybody cries a river. But being hip and popular and appealing to the current trends is the most important thing of all? Right? I mean it's all for nothing if you're not on the pulse of the bleeding edge market trends, right??

Bring on Neo-Bugs!

Perhaps the videogame market has "matured" in that it has grown beyond what it once was. Perhaps sales like Nintendo's phenomenon of the NES will never happen again for them no matter WHAT they do. Perhaps Nintendo will now be considered "niche". Perhaps they will find they are happy being considered largely to be niche, if they're doing what they feel is best and have a customer base for that niche.

Perhaps in five years trends will flip around again and Nintendo's "unpopular" aesthetics (which remain some of the most stylistically and artistically rich in the entire industry) will be in vogue for another cycle.

In the mean time self-styled pundits will sit and declare what Nintendo should and shouldn't do to be "a real success".

 

[MomoPufflet]

Nintendo isn't ignoring American men so much as they're ignoring people with taste.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Soundwave is shitting on people in this thread

 

[Agent X]

I think if Nintendo were a third party developer people would not care so much, they'd just be another developer making "kiddy" games for some other console, I wish people would just STFU and get over it, BLAME third party developers for the lack of "MACHOOAR" games on the GameCube, why is it Nintendo’s responsibility to make these games? This blame game just doesn’t happen in the music or movie industries.

This plays into the point I made earlier. Nintendo doesn't have to make any mature-oriented games if they don't want to. They can leave that to third-party developers if they desire.

But, recall that a few months ago Nintendo was sounding the trumpets about how they were specifically targeting an older demographic with their DS marketing campaign. There was even a message thread here about it. And as I said in that thread, Nintendo unfortunately doesn't have a lineup of software that would appeal to the same target group as those ads. That was true back then, and nearly four months later, it still holds true.

Thus, with that marketing move, Nintendo opened Pandora's box, and invited this whole argument about "mature games" to take place. If Nintendo had not done anything of the sort, and just laid back and took a neutral stance on the issue, then you could at least say, "This isn't their target audience anyway" and leave it at that. But Nintendo themselves said (with those ads) that "this is their target audience," so the scathing criticism over Nintendo's outright failure to deliver good games for grown-ups is completely justified.

 

[Ristamar]

in other words

nintendo needs to make more games where you can blow stuff up and kill people.

Nintendo needs to stop thinking Nintendo and...

"...start thinking PlayStation!"







Or not.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Nintendo is just perceived to be the wounded animal at the moment, which gets the vultures circling in the media as it makes for a very easy story that can be endlessly recycled. Same thing happened with Sega. They were written off until they eventually died. The 'kiddy' thing is just the easiest thing to hit Nintendo with.

Nintendo won't be going the way of Sega any time soon, but it won't stop the doom-sayers. Everyone likes a good 'where did it all go wrong' story about a previously successful company or person. If Nintendo do come back with something good though with Revolution their mistakes will be quickly forgotten. In the same way as the iPod turned things round for Apple.

That seems a big if at the moment, but until we have some idea of what Revolution is you never know ...

 

[Sho Nuff]

Men aren't giving Nintendo a chance! Men should wear more pink too! And frilly shirts! THEY NEED FRILLY SHIRTS!

(Returns to playing San Andreas)