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[Krejlooc]

I think Jehovah's witnesses, but I might be mistaken.

You are correct, one of my uncles was a jehovah's witness and declined a kidney transplant, sadly.

There was also an episode of House about this, actually. I can't remember the exact religion, but something about how it wasn't honoring the body.

 

[LaserBuddha]

No, you just don't like the finger being pointed at you for once. Unless you're mother Theresa, get down off your high horse.

Mother Theresa was not a good person.

There's not a high horse, there's your stupid fucking fantasy that a convicted child molester is going to be ahead of a 12yo girl on the organ donor list and get your organs so fuck everyone else, those organs can rot in a pine box while the people die in a hospital bed. Never mind that even if we are talking about a criminal needing your organs, you are simply trying to play executioner from the grave with no knowledge of the situation, assuming that this criminal deserves to die instead of being allowed to live (through no sacrifice of your own since you're already dead) instead of letting the justice system do its job.

"The finger" pointed at me for once? Since my positions on organ donation are morally and logically sound, I'm not really feeling it. Yours aren't though, so I can see why you'd sweat when people deconstruct them.

If you need a grownup to telling u why your analogy was bad, here's a proper analogy: I can press a button that gives free food to starving people. No one has to pay for it, and the people who need it most like the young and close-to-death will get the food first. In fact, pressing the button will almost surely save one or more people from death, and not pressing it will lead to those people dying. I choose not to press the button because there are surely bad people that are starving too. That's an actual analogy to what you've decided.

 

[Bradach]

Due to this thread I have a donor card in the post to me and I'll be giving blood on Thursday.

If my meat and fluids can help people (even bad people Miles X) then sign me up!

 

[KdylanR92]

No real reason, i've never thought about it long enough to form an opinion.

So I guess because i'm lazy and selfish.

 

[PandaShake]

I've always meant to, but was too lazy to do so, but I just registered online for my state. Thanks for the reminder, OP.

 

[LaserBuddha]

No real reason, i've never thought about it long enough to form an opinion.

So I guess because i'm lazy and selfish.

It's a checkbox on your drivers license form. You don't really have to put effort into it.

 

[esms]

Extreme laziness and general lack of thought on the topic for me.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Just going to say, whether you personally donate your organs or not, that if you're ever in an accident or some other situation in which you need an organ, and I so happen to be a match that died just then, that I hope you receive my organs. Because I think it'd be absolutely stupid and selfish to deny you the ability to go on living for as reason as inane as I didn't like your opinion, or didn't consider you a necessarily good person. And with that I hope some of you who are not willing to donate will someday change your minds for the sake of helping another.

 

[GeordieMark]

Is anybody in this topic not facing this situation? Of course my organs could go to someone "undeserving." Hence the proposition - is the probablity that your organs will go to someone "bad" outweighing the realistic possibility of a 12 year old dying?

Keeping in mind that many of the reasons people have claimed someone would be "undeserving" of organ donation ITT are already reflected in the organ donor process. We actually try to weed out "undeserving" people from getting organ donations, like criminals and drug abusers.



So try spouting some, then.

Won't somebody think of the children huh?

 

[Krejlooc]

Won't somebody think of the children huh?

Uh, yes?

 

[LaserBuddha]

Well you're beliefs mean squat. Though they have made me even more against organ donations. Well done on that. As I got older I might even have changed my mind. But people like you just want to force people to change their minds by guilt tripping and shaming them.

Just makes your cause an empty one from where I'm sitting.

Since let's face it. You care little for the people who need donations, just your own beliefs.

God complexes are fun.

Laters.

The fuck out of here with this "people who criticize my decision to not donate organs retroactively made me decide not to donate organs" bullshit. This decision has nothing to do with anything except your dead body, a doctor, and sick people. So fucking edgy.

 

[PeskyToaster]

I plan on living forever so I will need them.

 

[The Incarnation]

The fuck out of here with this "people who criticize my decision to not donate organs retroactively made me decide not to donate organs" bullshit. This decision has nothing to do with anything except your dead body, a doctor, and sick people. You big dumb edgy motherfucker.

Oh and the chances of them going to a obsessive nutcase like you.

 

[GeordieMark]

Uh, yes?

Its a cheap way to make your point though. It could be a child, adult, pensioner. You don't get to choose so why keep bringing the specific case of a 12 year old into this unless its to try frame the argument in a certain way. People give the press shit when they do the same. Its just reducing the discussion to suit your point of view.

 

[trembli0s]

It's a checkbox on your drivers license form. You don't really have to put effort into it.

Agreed. I've done it since the first time I signed up.

I just don't see any reason it should not be an opt-out provision. If your religious beliefs are that important you will take the effort to check that box when you get your driver's license, especially if the state is required to disclose that information.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

I recently read an article that a province here in Canada is considering to reverse the condition of organ donation where it's presumed you're an organ donor unless you opt out, instead of the current opt in program that's common around most of the world (or at least Canada and the US, not sure about EU).

And so I want to ask everyone who doesn't want to donate your organs - why is that?

Do you believe in the chance of a Vanilla Sky cryogenics before you die? If so, why wouldn't you just change to opting out when you sign up for that program?

Is there some religious reason?

Only reason I haven't was due to forgetting to register every time I think about it, so I would definitely support presuming organ donor. I've added in my to do list to register though.

I hate forced altruism, if they change it I'll opt out. :|

 

[NoblesseOblige]

The fuck out of here with this "people who criticize my decision to not donate organs retroactively made me decide not to donate organs" bullshit. This decision has nothing to do with anything except your dead body, a doctor, and sick people. So fucking edgy.

I wouldn't bother engaging them any further. They're clearly in that cynical edgy phase of life. So they probably have a few decades left at least. Let's just hope they grow out of it sometime during that.

 

[LaserBuddha]

Oh and the chances of them going to a obsessive nutcase like you.

What does that emotion feel like, when you know everyone thinks you're irrational and you're desperately trying to push that off to someone else instead?

 

[Krejlooc]

Its a cheap way to make your point though.

I wasn't the one who evoked the image of the 12 year old for my argument.

It could be a child, adult, pensioner.

Of course it could have, hence why your "think of the children hurrrr" smark was so stupid. Consider the hypothetical 12 year old as a metaphor for "worthy, innocent individual." Man, woman, or child.

so why keep bringing the specific case of a 12 year old into this unless its to try frame the argument in a certain way.

Because it's not a "specific case." And of course I'm trying to frame the argument in a specific way. Thats precisely what a debate is for.

People give the press shit when they do the same.

I'm not "people."

Its just reducing the discussion to suit your point of view.

correct.

 

[The Incarnation]

I wouldn't bother engaging them any further. They're clearly in that cynical edgy phase of life. So they probably have a few decades left at least. Let's just hope they grow out of it sometime during that.

Almost like Christian talking about an atheist. Always works that.

 

[The Incarnation]

What does that emotion feel like, when you know everyone thinks you're irrational and you're desperately trying to push that off to someone else instead?

I'm not the one angry and swearing.

I guess that's why it's called "Blind Fury".

 

[Krejlooc]

Almost like Christian talking about an atheist. Always works that.

That's so deep, bro!

 

[Celegus]

Not sure how it is in Canada but it's super easy to do in the states. I have no idea why you wouldn't donate. Save someone's life or let them for? Gee.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I hate forced altruism, if they change it I'll opt out. :|

Well you weren't really altruistic if you opt out because in is the default. A real altruist is in whatever the default is.

Not sure how it is in Canada but it's super easy to do in the states. I have no idea why you wouldn't donate. Save someone's life or let them [die]? Gee.

Sadly it's not that simple for everyone. Case and point: several posters in this thread.

 

[inm8num2]

Take 'em as soon as I'm gone. I won't need them anymore!

 

[LaserBuddha]

I'm not the one angry and swearing.

I guess that's why it's called "Blind Fury".

I actually curse regardless of my mood.

Having enjoyed your childlike logic of "the world sucks, so until it doesn't no one gets my organs!" I assume you will refuse all medical aid that might save your own life, especially organ transplants. That's the logical extension of your reasoning (well, other than suicide I guess). Not surprised you follow a childlike political philosophy.

Somehow I feel like all of your bullshit will be immediately jettisoned when you need an organ.

 

[GeordieMark]

I wasn't the one who evoked the image of the 12 year old for my argument.



Of course it could have, hence why your "think of the children hurrrr" smark was so stupid. Consider the hypothetical 12 year old as a metaphor for "worthy, innocent individual." Man, woman, or child.



Because it's not a "specific case." And of course I'm trying to frame the argument in a specific way. Thats precisely what a debate is for.



I'm not "people."



correct.

You may not have brought it up initially, but you keep repeating it. Using kids is intentionally trying to provoke a sympathetic response.

I know you aren't 'people' but I struggle to keep my list of exactly who thinks what up-to-date, hence I generalised and didn't accuse you specifically of saying it.

I have no problem donating my own organs. None at all. I just totally disagree with how some people on here have gone about making their point by using shaming tactics. We can have a good discussion without that.

 

[shiftplusone]

Not sure how it is in Canada but it's super easy to do in the states. I have no idea why you wouldn't donate. Save someone's life or let them for? Gee.

"but that someone could be an asshole" the user says, missing the ironic scenario they've created.

Yes, but that's their choice. I wouldn't want to give my organs to anybody except my friends and parents.

I'm with this guy.

My wife is getting my organs whether she needs them or not.

 

[LaserBuddha]

I hate forced altruism, if they change it I'll opt out. :|

Do you really categorize what someone does with your useless meat after you're dead as "altruism" on your part?

It's an option, and you're choosing to paint the way that option is presented (an opt-out) as being forced, to give yourself an out. My question is, how can that aspect of paperwork matter so much more than anything actually having to do with organ donation and what it does for others? Am I just crazy for possessing empathy and not spiting the wrong people over something not even warranting spite?

 

[The Incarnation]

I actually curse regardless of my mood.

Having enjoyed your childlike logic of "the world sucks, so until it doesn't no one gets my organs!" I assume you will refuse all medical aid that might save your own life, especially organ transplants. That's the logical extension of your reasoning (well, other than suicide I guess). Not surprised you follow a childlike political philosophy.

Somehow I feel like all of your bullshit will be immediately jettisoned when you need an organ.

Learn to control yourself.

And you want to talk about childlike, and you can't even do something basic like that.

 

[FO-totality]

I see "religious purposes" as a potential reason in the OP, but what religion is against organ donation? I know the Catholic church has said it is one of the greatest things you can do as a Catholic. What if any other religions against it?

P. Bruzzone "Religious Aspects of Organ Transplantation" (May 2008) Transplantation Proceedings 40 (4): p. 1064–1067

No religion formally forbids donation or receipt of organs or is against transplantation from living or deceased donors. Only some orthodox jews may have religious objections to “opting in.” However, transplantation from deceased donors may be discouraged by Native Americans, Roma Gypsies, Confucians, Shintoists, and some Orthodox rabbis. Some South Asia Muslim ulemas (scholars) and muftis (jurists) oppose donation from human living and deceased donors because the human body is an “amanat” (trusteeship) from God and must not be desecrated following death, but they encourage xenotransplantation research.

No religion formally obliges one to donate or refuse organs. No religion formally obliges one to consider cadaveric organs “a societal resource” or considers organ donation “a religious duty” (except some rabbis and isolated Muslim and Christian scholars). No religion has a formal position on “bonus points,” which is priority on the waiting list. Living organ donation is strongly encouraged only between jesus christians (15 of 28 jesus christians worldwide have donated a kidney). No religion forbids this practice. Directed
organ donation to people of the same religion has been proposed only by some Orthodox Jews and some Islamic Ulemas/Muftis. Only some Muslim Ulemas/Muftis and some Asian religions may prefer living donation over cadaveric donation. No religion prefers cadaveric over living donation. No religion formally forbids non–heart-beating donors (nhbd) cadaveric donation or cross-over donation. Due to the sacrad of human life, the Catholic Church is against donation from anencephalic donors or after active euthanasia.

Michael Oliver et. al. "Organ donation, transplantation and religion" Nephrol. Dial. Transplant. (2010)

Religious concerns may be an important reason why patients decline listing for a renal transplant. These issues may be equally, or even more, important when live donation is discussed. There is good reason to believe that religious concerns play a significant role much more often than clinicians and transplant teams believe. The issue is certainly further compounded by the fact that a few, if any, patients come forward with their religious concerns, not least because issue of transplantation is new to them anyway and because they meet with transplant teams whom they do not know. Health professionals, on the other hand, may wish to avoid this sensitive issue altogether or may lack knowledge on religious issues pertaining to transplantation. Some may be entirely unaware. We encountered a case in clinic that revealed our remarkable lack of knowledge in this regard.

Here, we aim to provide an overview on how the different religions view transplantation and organ donation, with an emphasis on practical points for health care professionals who are involved in transplant listing, organ donation and retrieval, and transplantation itself. Knowledge of these facts may provide a background to deal with these issues professional

 

[Krejlooc]

You may not have brought it up initially, but you keep repeating it. Using kids is intentionally trying to provoke a sympathetic response.

Correct. That is precisely what I am trying to do. I'm trying to evoke some sympathy. Because some people are too cold to get sympathetic when you tell them the man next door needs an organ. He's just as worthy as the 12 year old.

I have no problem donating my own organs. None at all. I just totally disagree with how some people on here have gone about making their point by using shaming tactics. We can have a good discussion without that.

Well, you're not contributing to the good discussion. Lead by example. This is my second time telling you this. If you're just so danged disappointed with the shaming, feel free to demonstrate another tactic.

 

[D4Danger]

I hate forced altruism, if they change it I'll opt out. :|

I bet you'd still take one if you needed it though

(not picking on you, that is aimed at everyone who can't be bothered or wants to opt-out)

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I have no problem donating my own organs. None at all. I just totally disagree with how some people on here have gone about making their point by using shaming tactics. We can have a good discussion without that.

Cool. Go start a thread about how you don't like people using shaming tactics (that aren't actual shaming). You're not exactly contributing to the goal of having a good discussion.

 

[Seven4sses]

I don't really think my organs will be of any value once I die. I smoke a lot so that has to affect the viability of it being useful, doesn't it? Or am I going by wrong info? Even then, would an elderly's organs be viable for someone younger than me?

 

[Krejlooc]

I don't really think my organs will be of any value once I die. I smoke a lot so that has to affect the viability of it being useful, doesn't it? Or am I going by wrong info?

you have plenty of organs that wouldn't be affected by your smoking.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I don't really think my organs will be of any value once I die. I smoke a lot so that has to affect the viability of it being useful, doesn't it? Or am I going by wrong info?

Your organs are always valuable. For example, even if you were a smoker most your life you can donate them to science so that they may be studied to examine the effects of smoking. If not that then there's countless other uses for them.

 

[BannedEpisode]

I work at a big company with really smart people and at lunch the other day three people claimed that they aren't donors because doctors/emts/etc will let you die to harvest your organs if you are a donor.

I haven't been that astounded/befuddled in a long while.

 

[LaserBuddha]

Learn to control yourself.

And you want to talk about childlike, and you can't even do something basic like that.

Way to dodge the tough questions, bruh. You enjoy being contrarian so I'm assuming the fact that basically everyone here thinks you're irrational is like fuel for you.

Keep on the "you're losing control of yourself" angle, you might become the first person in the history of Internet arguments to successfully force that narrative. I'm still here discussing what I believe and you can keep trying to dodge your own failed position to try to turn it around on those calling you out. It's hilarious.

 

[D4Danger]

I work at a big company with really smart people and at lunch the other day three people claimed that they aren't donors because doctors/emts/etc will let you die to harvest your organs if you are a donor.

I haven't been that astounded/befuddled in a long while.

as if medical professionals value selfishness

"we must work harder to save this guy. He couldn't be bothered to tick a box"

 

[SaganIsGOAT]

Opt out system should be global, that really is the way to go. My parents used to pull that "they won't try to save you" bullshit along with some more Catholic dogma bullshit reasoning. Anyone who doesn't donate is selfish.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I don't understand the "they won't try to save you" argument. Like... why wouldn't they? It's more work gutting a person and transplanting your organ than it is to try saving them. Plus no actual medical professional is going to risk the potential lawsuit for not doing whatever they reasonably can to save someone.

 

[The Incarnation]

Way to dodge the tough questions, bruh. You enjoy being contrarian so I'm assuming the fact that basically everyone here thinks you're irrational is like fuel for you.

Keep on the "you're losing control of yourself" angle, you might become the first person in the history of Internet arguments to successfully force that narrative. I'm still here discussing what I believe and you can keep trying to dodge your own failed position to try to turn it around on those calling you out. It's hilarious.

Not going to waste my time answering questions from a nutter. Fully engaging emotional instability just leads to a torrent of abuse as you've already demonstrated.

Also since your arguing and so-called hard questions merely consist of shaming, insults, guilt tripping and the use of emotional manipulation via using the imagery of dying little girls, there's really nothing more to be said.

 

[LaserBuddha]

Opt out system should be global, that really is the way to go. My parents used to pull that "they won't try to save you" bullshit along with some more Catholic dogma bullshit reasoning. Anyone who doesn't donate is selfish.

I'd replace "selfish" with something else because selfishness implies you are gaining something when you screw over others. Can't put my finger on it though. Could just be ignorance, or maybe spite.

 

[LaserBuddha]

Not going to waste my time answering questions from a nutter. Fully engaging emotional instability just leads to a torrent of abuse as you've already demonstrated.

I'm sure as you walk away into the sunset, everyone will think "he had a good argument, he just never presented it because it was too good for this thread."

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Not going to waste my time answering questions from a nutter. Fully engaging emotional instability just leads to a torrent of abuse as you've already demonstrated.

You've wasted your time responding anyway, so why not humor it? Or is it just that you can't.

Spoiler

Don't bother answering, we already know.

 

[Krejlooc]

You've wasted your time responding anyway, so why not humor it? Or is it just that you can't.

I'm certain that he'll continue to post.

Spoiler

reverse psychology

 

[ApharmdX]

I have this irrational desire to go into the ground with all of my parts intact. I know it's irrational, but I've felt that way for years. I doubt I'll opt in to donate organs, ever.

 

[infinit777]

Separation Anxiety

 

[massoluk]

Oh, I thought I just have to tick that box when I renewed my driver license at DMV. Didn't know I actually have to go out of my way and register it.

And done. Thanks. If I die, I die. I don't need those organs anymore.