Why did Occupy Wall Street fail?
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The Elite
BOSS
A lot of movements seem to be extremely antagonistic towards people who could be potentially supportive of their cause. If you don't completely understand their stance and ask a question they start chastising you for not already knowing the answer. I admittedly come from a place of ignorance for some of these situations but that doesn't mean I lack sympathy for a cause. Even if I don't understand the entire message or agree with every facet of it.
It's like they've become so extremely insular that they forget that educating people about their message is important.
Anyways, that's a bit of an aside.
I don't think they cared, they were aware of the consequences of protesting on private property like most people who stage these kinds of things are. That didn't kill the movement or any movement.
They were forcibly removed. Kinda hard to keep going on. They certainly didn't fail. The 1% has entered the lexicon and many other grassroots movements are trying to establish their own start-ups and push for greater redistribution which even nobel prize winning economists have acknowledged. The current situation is actually bad for economies in the long term.
Say dat again.
gamechanger87
Member
I think the issue is that many of the group associated with the movement and other like it believe the best way to accomplish their goals is to mess with people to get them to confront the issue at hand. For example, marching across the Brooklyn Bridge and ruining everyone's commute will get peoples attention, but they will hate you for it and refuse to support your cause.
Omegasquash
Member
Because they didn't know what they were doing. They were up in arms about something and wanted to do something about it, but couldn't be arsed to actually do anything than make their presence known.
Apathy, lack of awareness. Also, any time people organize against something, they end up being portrayed as weirdo hippies or something. "If they've got all this time to protest, maybe they should go get damn job!"
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
people think it was a response to the Tea Party. It was NOT. it was its own thing.
They changed the narrative of the economic debate, giving people like Bill deBlasio and Kshama room to actually compete and be taken seriously. Income Inequality became a central message. Even Republicans in many districts had to try switch their bullshit, to try and fit in the inequality narrative.
the political failure is at Democrat's feet, the civic failure is at the voter's feet. Dont fucking count on a movement to do everything for you, exactly how you wanted.
They changed the narrative of the economic debate, giving people like Bill deBlasio and Kshama room to actually compete and be taken seriously. Income Inequality became a central message. Even Republicans in many districts had to try switch their bullshit, to try and fit in the inequality narrative.
the political failure is at Democrat's feet, the civic failure is at the voter's feet. Dont fucking count on a movement to do everything for you, exactly how you wanted.
timetokill
Banned
Two main issues:
- Too vague about solutions
- Unwilling to really get their hands dirty and fuck shit up
Peaceful protests are mostly just annoying to everyone when there isn't a clear figurehead you're protesting. it doesn't promote action.
The third issue is the lack of meaningful support from Democratic leadership. But they're controlled by their corporate masters so it's not a big surprise.
- Too vague about solutions
- Unwilling to really get their hands dirty and fuck shit up
Peaceful protests are mostly just annoying to everyone when there isn't a clear figurehead you're protesting. it doesn't promote action.
The third issue is the lack of meaningful support from Democratic leadership. But they're controlled by their corporate masters so it's not a big surprise.
It was a joke post. : /
Occupy Wallstreet had ALOT of media attention and nothing happened. I'm from NYC. I was one of those people who went that one time to check things out. No one could tell me what was the actual purpose. I think that truly hurt whatever it was they wanted.
What does this mean?
Were they actually peaceful as a whole? I'm not sure if it was just the latch on phase, but they were anything but.
internetwolf
Banned
most of the participants didn't even know what they were there for
TarpitCarnivore
Member
The OWS was very much like the Tea Party movement though. It was a small group of the public banding together to try and bring about awareness to something they felt needed to be fixed.
Omegasquash
Member
The Tea Party was much more organized and cohesive in its methods and beliefs. Evil as it is, it was very effective at saying exactly what it wanted.
That's part of the problem with any progressive agenda. People don't seem to realize how much time and work it takes to effect meaningful change that doesn't blow up in your face. So when the going gets tough, a lot of people give up.
In comparison, being a conservative is generally fairly easy in that you're advocating for systems already in place.
As stated by others, OWS didn't really have a plan, and it didn't have any concrete agenda, let alone a very good one. They were unfocused and let themselves get pegged as the unwashed slacktivist students camping out for summer break. That said, it's possible it still impacted the discussion on inequality long term, which is A Good Thing.
Fox News used to plug their rallies with Glenn Beck showing up to them n' stuff. They definitely had more organization when the most watched conservative news channel was covering the events (from a cheerleading perspective instead of the negative coverage of OWS).
TarpitCarnivore
Member
My point was more to when people get defensive, either way, over comparisons of OWS and Tea Party. Both were grassroots movements started over frustration with the current government.
RevengeOfDoh
Banned
Most of the media attention centered around characterizing them as a bunch of hipsters camping out on public parks, making hand gestures, and doing the human microphone. It's not like mainstream media really put any effort into making the movement "look good" and what do we end up with? A lot of people with opinions like yours.
Having billionaires funding your movement and providing logistical support though think tanks also help.
RustyNails
Member
I dont blame Fox News. If your message is coherant, organized, with a solid, achievable list of demands, then every news media will put it up. Instead, we had kids saying legalize pot between claims of income inequality. Seriously? All the talk shows had the same criticisms of ows: they're rudderless. TeaParty was laser focused on Obamacare, and their focus led to the defeat of democrats and the victory of 50 anti-Obamacare republicans that rode the wave.
Media portrayal. The whole movement was made to look like unfocused homeless kids that were just anti establishment.
Stuff like the Philadelphia police chief's arrest for protesting seems glossed over.
That said, I can't think of any concrete things they wanted to happen apart from making the bankers who crashed the economy be held responsible?
Stuff like the Philadelphia police chief's arrest for protesting seems glossed over.
That said, I can't think of any concrete things they wanted to happen apart from making the bankers who crashed the economy be held responsible?
No, there will be a return, but it won't be as friendly as occupy. It will take another 10 years to build up though, but some of those problems might be solved politically. It depends. Occupy was a building block. The next one will also come from out of nowhere, and it will have learned from all the lessons. The question is...
will the world be a different place? because these guys will be prepped for NYPD mugs and thugs.
Hexa
Member
teruterubozu
Member
They got "hippied" - an age old conservative tactic and liberal pitfall.
gutter_trash
Banned
Sensible chuckle hehe
gutter_trash
Banned
Financed by the Koche brothers
On November 9, 2015 I wanted a sandwich, but had no bread.
Ending my hunger is my one demand.
The Albatross
Member
Yep... Similarly this happened to me commuting home people "occupied" the main highway that takes me to my house... About 10 people who put buckets filled with concrete across the highway, and backed up traffic for about 2 hours. I just wanted to get home to feed my dog. I was glad the people were arrested.
i wouldn't say it failed... those protests were at least somewhat pivotal in the narrative shift vis a vis "gov't is taxing/spending/regulating us to death!" versus "fuck the 1%", which paved the way for obama's re-election.
not that that was their goal. but it's not like it was inconsequential either
not that that was their goal. but it's not like it was inconsequential either
Doesn't matter that much since your average conservative is actually active politically speaking.
There is a reason why Republicans control almost everything and it is not the Koch brothers : Progressives want quick solutions via the executive branch and believe that local politics is too boring and burdensome. So you reap what you sow.
FrontalMonk
Banned
OWS arguably didn't fail, because that movement made the term "The One Percent" household in a way it never was before. It distilled the frustration that has been building for years into a quick phrase and shifted the conversation away from the military and onto the economy.
That said, OWS had no cohesion, no platform, and no message. It had no guidance and no agenda, and that was something that the movement thought of as one of its strengths, which we all know now was stupid. It also didn't help that the protests dragged on into wintertime, and the protests and rallies fell apart like a land war in asia.
That said, OWS had no cohesion, no platform, and no message. It had no guidance and no agenda, and that was something that the movement thought of as one of its strengths, which we all know now was stupid. It also didn't help that the protests dragged on into wintertime, and the protests and rallies fell apart like a land war in asia.
Yeah the media shouldn't have shown those guys taking shits on the sidewalk and between parked cars.
The Tea Party had establishment candidates that had $$$ reasons to support their stupid agendas. Business has no reason to oppose them. How many democrats want to bang the "fuck wall street" drum? Not really a fair comparison.
RevengeOfDoh
Banned
Are you referring to BLM in Boston?
The Tea Party politicians are willing to send the country into another recession via not lifting the debt ceiling. The establishment hates people like Ted Cruz but at the same time they don't want to alienate the base.
Even Eric Cantor lost a primary despite having the money advantage, because the base simply doesn't care. So I wouldn't say it is a question of the Tea Party having the necessary financial backing (though they are receiving a lot of money from people who want the government to fail); mostly they are successful because they are in a perpetual state of rage (Talk Radio and various loons have driven a lot of people over the edge).
Yes, that was BLM in Boston.
DrGonzo615
Banned
This by god, this.
You have a movement with no leadership then the media focuses on weirdos like this which scare the rest of the population because they cant relate to "downtwinkles" and other goofy stoner bohemian shit.
Yep, when people can barely afford food, half the country calls them bums that dont want jobs but turn around and pat people on the back who literally stolen hundreds of billions of dollars from everyone.
This is the sentiment from half this country.
The Albatross
Member
RedNumberFive
Banned
It was about forgiving student loan debt or something, right?
Democratic socialism =/= socialist
Oh, wow. Didn't know they were out that far out. I mostly interacted with the Providence portion.
In response to the other poster though, the same thing did happen for BLM more recently though. Guess we have a lot of spare barrels.
People bought into the narrative that there were no goals. Also, several of the larger ones were infiltrated by agents provocateur, getting them to do things like black bloc tactics to lose public appeal. The other thing OWS had going against it was the occupying itself. It's really difficult to deal with communications and logistics all while you're outside in the winter on the street.
It didn't fail though. It's goal was to raise awareness, which it absolutely did, making topics such as money in politics and income inequality into major topics of political discussion to this day. When you hear "the one percent", you know what that is referring to. OWS also greased the wheels for several movements since then.
The Tea Party, on the other hand, was never a grassroots movement. It was always astroturf. I haven't read the thread, but I'm sure that's been brought up. When it was new, it did attract some true believers who thought it wasn't just about a pro-big-business agenda. Many of those people would later leave disgusted when the writing was on the wall, some of whom went to OWS, incidentally.
It didn't fail though. It's goal was to raise awareness, which it absolutely did, making topics such as money in politics and income inequality into major topics of political discussion to this day. When you hear "the one percent", you know what that is referring to. OWS also greased the wheels for several movements since then.
The Tea Party, on the other hand, was never a grassroots movement. It was always astroturf. I haven't read the thread, but I'm sure that's been brought up. When it was new, it did attract some true believers who thought it wasn't just about a pro-big-business agenda. Many of those people would later leave disgusted when the writing was on the wall, some of whom went to OWS, incidentally.
Syph Medwes
Member
because they ran out of professional protestors
Barring a central figure with future-page-in-history-book level presence to coalesce around, I don't think anything would have stood up against the conservative media just constantly shitting on it being a bunch of entitled brats that think they're too good to work at McDonalds. The right ran a nasty smear campaign against it from the word go, while I distinctly recall Tea Party coverage from 'lefty' networks during that movement's inception covering it respectfully and somehow resisting cherry-picking interviews that could have easily painted it as a joke. Leftist movements are steep uphill battles so long as the opposition is always quicker to draw their knives.
But hey, that liberal media
But hey, that liberal media
The Shadow
Member
Lack of focus, disorganization, etc. The local Occupy Wall Street where I live was hugely guilty of this, and decided to change the name to Un-occupy Wall street, in respect to Native Americans, and decided to add trivial things to the mix. It really became more of an excuse to protest more than a real goal.
Which was really frustrating to watch, because a sharply focused OWS group could have really done something, instead of trying to change everything.
Which was really frustrating to watch, because a sharply focused OWS group could have really done something, instead of trying to change everything.
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