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[hirokazu]

Race is an outdated concept, and I'd argue that keeping it alive actually encourages racism, since it reinforces constructed differences and keeps them alive as well. The only thing worse is blood-based racism and the idea of "mixing".

At least for the purposes of census, it's useful for identifying where people of different cultural backgrounds live so as to better plan and provide services. The Australian census asks "ancestry" rather than "race" though, since you kinda need to distinguish people of different cultural backgrounds and not just "White" or "Asian" for that to be useful.

 

[The Artisan]

The whole point of "race" based classifications is to arbitrarily lump whole groups of people up because it's easier to list 5 or 6 options on a survey.

what's the point of lumping people up for a survey like this?

 

[Zoe]

what's the point of lumping people up for a survey like this?

To help prove whether or not there's a pattern of discriminatory hiring practices.

 

[The Artisan]

To help prove whether or not there's a pattern of discriminatory hiring practices.

wouldn't it be more prudent to prove these patterns in more groups of people rather than being lumped?

 

[Zoe]

wouldn't it be more prudent to prove these patterns in more groups of people rather than being lumped?

Not really. Most people who would discriminate against groups wouldn't even know the difference, and you risk hiding discrimination faced by less populated groups.

Let's say a hiring manager really hates Chinese people. Several Chinese people have applied for jobs under him in the past but are always passed up. Now there's a new job and there are two applicants: a Korean guy and a white guy. The white guy gets it.

In your scenario, the numbers wouldn't suggest the Korean guy was discriminated against. But in reality, the hiring manager thought he was just another Chinese.

 

[The Artisan]

Not really. Most people who would discriminate against groups wouldn't even know the difference, and you risk hiding discrimination faced by less populated groups.

Let's say a hiring manager really hates Chinese people. Several Chinese people have applied for jobs under him in the past but are always passed up. Now there's a new job and there are two applicants: a Korean guy and a white guy. The white guy gets it.

In your scenario, the numbers wouldn't suggest the Korean guy was discriminated against. But in reality, the hiring manager thought he was just another Chinese.

Because Chinese and Korean both fall under Asian. But, isn't it illegal in the first place to ban Chinese people from applying?

 

[Zoe]

Because Chinese and Korean both fall under Asian. But, isn't it illegal in the first place to ban Chinese people from applying?

How do you prove that's happening?

 

[Abinash117]

I don't understand why the US still clings to these outdated concepts.
I've never seen any form anywhere in Europe where you have to fill in your "race". If I ever go to the US, I'd probably fill in "human", since that is the only correct answer - ethically and scientifically.



But can it explain "white on white" racism (like UK and Polish people) that's prevalent in Europe then? Xenophobia? Then where does xenophobia end and racism start?
Race is an outdated concept, and I'd argue that keeping it alive actually encourages racism, since it reinforces constructed differences and keeps them alive as well. The only thing worse is blood-based racism and the idea of "mixing".

Different races have different experience in the US. The census can help give data that will benefit a minority group. It also required for federal programs, give politicians information that help them set policy, might give civil rights protections to a minority group. If Arabs are given their own category they might receive better civil rights protections because more accurate information about the group will come to light because to census also complies information like income.

 

[The Artisan]

How do you prove that's happening?

there would have to be some record of a Chinese person working there, fired, and a string of Asian people trying to apply and getting rejected

 

[Zoe]

there would have to be some record of a Chinese person working there, fired, and a string of Asian people trying to apply and getting rejected

And how would you get that data?

 

[The Artisan]

And how would you get that data?

isn't there some way to to tell how many applicants applied and the number rejected?

 

[Zoe]

isn't there some way to to tell how many applicants applied and the number rejected?

But how do you know those applicants are Asian?

 

[lightskintwin]

there would have to be some record of a Chinese person working there, fired, and a string of Asian people trying to apply and getting rejected

Zoe is trying to show that there's a strength in numbers. Now you do you lose something in specific data about specific ethnic groups within a racial group, but you also gain more power and a bigger voice combined.

 

[Hypron]

And how would you get that data?

If you've got stats for all the individual ethnicities you can easily calculate the stats for 'races' by grouping them together.

 

[Zoe]

If you've got stats for all the individual ethnicities you can easily calculate the stats for 'races' by grouping them together.

What if an employer considers a certain group to be Pacific Islander but the employee considers themselves to be Asian?

 

[Sunster]

It's weird because when we Americans see a person from these countries, Thailand, Vietnam, China, Philippines, Indonesia, Japan, Korea, Cambodia, Malaysia, Laos, Nepal, Bhutan, Taiwan and Mongolia for the most part we think Asian. unless they are brown. then we think Indian or middle eastern. But India, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh are in Asia too, they are not even considered middle eastern either. So where do they fit? idk, I wonder what Americans from those places must feel like when doing these surveys.

 

[Abinash117]

It's weird because when we Americans see a person from these countries, Thailand, Vietnam, China, Philippines, Indonesia, Japan, Korea, Cambodia, Malaysia, Laos, Nepal, Bhutan, Taiwan and Mongolia for the most part we think Asian. unless they are brown. then we think Indian or middle eastern. But India, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh are in Asia too, they are not even considered middle eastern either. So where do they fit? idk, I wonder what Americans from those places must feel like when doing these surveys.

What the government officially categorizes and what the general population categorizes are completely distant.

In that scenario, they would list themselves as Asian(if they want to) regardless what the general population thinks. Also Middle Eastern are considered Asian or sometimes White in the US census( those are the only options people can select besides "other"), but the US Census Bureau wants to change that to include Middle East and North Africa, or MENA.

 

[kswiston]

Zoe is trying to show that there's a strength in numbers. Now you do you lose something in specific data about specific ethnic groups within a racial group, but you also gain more power and a bigger voice combined.

Part of the problem with the American system is that it was clearly made with the white and black racial divide in mind, and other races were sort of incidental. It didn't really help that the Non-Hispanic White + Black population didn't drop below 95% of the US total until the 1970 census (where those two groups made up 94.6% of the people censused). Why bother sub-dividing Asian American when they constituted a fraction of a percent of the US population for the country's first 200 years? Non-European immigration didn't really pick up major steam until the 1980s, and the US only does their census every decade.

Demographics in every other field are going to be tied into the Census Bureau data and terms. That has to change first.

 

[The Artisan]

just submitted another job application now, the question at the end was race or ethnicity

asian in its description doesn't sound like a race

 

[KillLaCam]

The race thing is stupid. I always select "other" and will always select it

 

[Zoe]

just submitted another job application now, the question at the end was race or ethnicity

asian in its description doesn't sound like a race

You're going to see that question at every company that submits to the EEOC.

 

[Spladam]

Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. One of those things one could argue is both a symbol of progress and an artifact of our antiquated social beliefs.

 

[gconsole]

Lol. Yeah could be.

Though I always asumed 'Asian' in the US was not only East Asian but also Southeast Asian. If Indonesians, Malaysians, Thai, Vietnamese etc aren't considered Asians...what are they considered then?

Scientific talk, you could categorize it like this

East - northern mongoloid
Southeast - southern mongoloid

Although it is based from the same race , there are a bit different in terms of appereance, as southern mongoloid tends to have bigger eyes and darker skin ( due to living in tropical zone ) as oppose to nothern who has smaller eyes and lighter skin.

People on the northern side ( east asia ) generally share the same look due to being homogeneous society, while people in the south can be more varied due to geography and background. Mainland northern bound southeast asian ( Burmese, Thai, Laos, Viet ) tends to look closer to northern mongoloid or Asian look in general media, while southern bound ( Malay, Indo, Phillipines ) tends to look less similar to the rest due to the mix background with austroloid race which inhabited the land before.

Then you have mass chinese migration in the past which went to most of southeastern asia city ( seach for chinese oversea for further information ). That added more mix background into southeast asian, while in some country ( Malaysia, Indonesia ) still maintain the different between chinese and the local due to religion ( people speak different language, dont marry each other ). Some country ( like Thailand ) completely integrate chinese into their society and enforce inter-marriage.

So using geography to explain race is not exactly accurate. You call Asian , but that generally means east asian due to their distinct and homogenous look. People in southeast asia who share that look are also called asian but due to not very homogeneous background , it is hard to tell sometime ( especially the southern bound countries ) unless u explicitly ask where are they from. I feel like this group of people is something in between , just like the concept of white hispanic in america i guess.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

In some countries it's actually illegal to ask for people's races/ethnicities in surveys, even if it's for "statistics".

I never answer. And I refuse to fill out a census.

 

[antibolo]

It's not their fucking business what "race" you are.

I find it hilarious that you're annoyed by the broad usage of "Asian", rather than being annoyed that you are being asked this stupid question (that should be illegal) to begin with.

 

[The Artisan]

It's not their fucking business what "race" you are.

I find it hilarious that you're annoyed by the broad usage of "Asian", rather than being annoyed that you are being asked this stupid question (that should be illegal) to begin with.

i've been asked this question all my life and it's the same thing my other Asian friends and I say to each other.