Why do we have consciousness, and where did it come from?

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LunaClover

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I dont know if this has been posted before or not, but its a daily thought for me...

The question is, why do we have these mental images and feelings? Why aren’t we biological "machines" that simply processes signals and automatically generate responses with no awareness of what’s going on? Why do we have consciousness, and where did it come from?

If we agree that consciousness is in the brain as a whole, is it in a single neuron? A single atom? A single electron? Assuming that nothing exists except for interacting particles, somehow within every particle there is something that provides the basis for consciousness.

It seems to me that science is still completely silent about this nature of consciousness. I know there is not very much information about the connection available, but one would think in this day and age that there would be.

So does anyone have a answer for me? And no worries, this was not a result from a theological/religious thought...I am just highly interested in the way the human brain functions. :)
 
LOL im really starting to find myself drifting towards that section in the book stores. Its kind of odd to me that not a lot of people talk about it...I guess its "non-fluffy" talk. =\
 
LunaClover said:
So does anyone have a answer for me? And no worries, this was not a result from a theological/religious thought...
Click to expand...

Nah, it was a result from teh weed lolamirite

:D
 
LunaClover said:
LOL im really starting to find myself drifting towards that section in the book stores. Its kind of odd to me that not a lot of people talk about it...I guess its "non-fluffy" talk. =\
Click to expand...

Nah it's more along the lines of.....people don't generally like conversations where you can never actually come to a conclusion:P
 
Scientists will probably say that we have them because evolution experimented with conciousness as a survival mechanism and it worked very well, so it continued to develop up to the point where humans came into being.

They'd be able to tell it better.
 
Something I'm afraid we'll never be able to answer for sure. Which is why I guess most people don't like talking about it.

It also fits in very well with "what motivates us?". Why do we feel compelled to accomplish things? It's like the only purpose of the human on this planet is to entirely populate it, find a way to become immortal, and have machines that do everything for it so that it has the simplest, laziest life possible.

I wonder if one day, the human will be able to program an AI that is self-conscious, that learns and develops feelings towards things. And I fear that day...
 
AtomicShroom said:
Something I'm afraid we'll never be able to answer for sure. Which is why I guess most people don't like talking about it.

It also fits in very well with "what motivates us?". Why do we feel compelled to accomplish things? It's like the only purpose of the human on this planet is to entirely populate it, find a way to become immortal, and have machines that do everything for it so that it has the simplest, laziest life possible.

I wonder if one day, the human will be able to program an AI that is self-conscious, that learns and develops feelings towards things. And I fear that day...
Click to expand...
...the day they learn to hate us.
 
We don't know where consciousness comes from or why we have it. So there is really no answer to it. Just be burdened with it or enjoy it. Me, I drink away my consciousness until I pass out. Take that neurons!!!
 
To me, it's almost a circular argument. By wondering why you are self-aware, you ARE self-aware, because you are aware that there is a self to be aware of. :P I guess the question is, are we somehow biologically driven to be self-aware, or is it a personal choice? I feel that our first thought is "Wow, I can think!", or something to that extent. I think therefore I am? :P
 
Thanks for the link.

So I was laying down trying to meditate on this, and kind of came to a realization...or it kind of lead me to another life long question. Anyways, it was completly silent in my house and I had my eyes closed. And the only thought that went thru my head is that death is a dream. I mean, when one falls asleep, and enters a dream...who's to say that isnt what death is? I feel like I could write a Nine Inch Nails song about now...
 
Enough of these pseudo-philosophical ramblings! Get a job already, you hippie!

...

I actually don't like these kinds of questions because not only do they make my head hurt but they usually result in me feeling depressed. Which I suppose echoes Mr. Benderschlotten's sentiments on the matter.
 
Some people believe our consciousness is actually our soul. *shrug*

It's an interesting question that really has no answere, as of right now. People have been asking this since the dawn of time.

It's fun to think about sometimes. Eat some mushrooms. You'll figure it out :P
 
LunaClover said:
Thanks for the link.

So I was laying down trying to meditate on this, and kind of came to a realization...or it kind of lead me to another life long question. Anyways, it was completly silent in my house and I had my eyes closed. And the only thought that went thru my head is that death is a dream. I mean, when one falls asleep, and enters a dream...who's to say that isnt what death is? I feel like I could write a Nine Inch Nails song about now...
Click to expand...

Last night I was dreaming that I had a black(afro-European) leg. And I showed it to all my friends, who were all really happy for me. Then I was wearing shorts for the rest of the dream, which turned into a sex-dream fast as shit.
 
Brobzoid said:
Last night I was dreaming that I had a black(afro-European) leg. And I showed it to all my friends, who were all really happy for me. Then I was wearing shorts for the rest of the dream, which turned into a sex-dream fast as shit.
Click to expand...

what tha?


















...what were you doing exactly with that black leg?
 
LunaClover said:
The question is, why do we have these mental images and feelings? Why aren’t we biological "machines" that simply processes signals and automatically generate responses with no awareness of what’s going on? Why do we have consciousness, and where did it come from?
Click to expand...
In the statement I bolded, does that sound efficient to you? Why can biological "machines" not have consciousness, what is the difference? Do you think humans are the only living organism with consciousness?
 
Conciousness is simply the collective of our active neural processes in a collated cohesive whole. It IS the sum of various brain functions that are required for basic operation.

I'd imagine there'd be an area (or types of neurons and neural path ways) that act towards binding the collective sum of the active experiences into a single perceptual experience for the sake of decision making efficiency or some such.

It is a byproduct of the way our brain functions and coallesces, rather than the aim of the universe... and it is ostensibly tied to living and what makes us human.

There is no such spirit/brain dualism... not only conciousness, but life as we know it, arises from the active function and interplay between massively complex neural networks, that we've only begun to scratch an understanding at.

Is it possible to be an automaton that acts as a human does but without that sense of conciousness? I would posit, no; the function of tying various percepts and brain functions together into a single cohesive experience is what makes our conciousness, and is required in order to function as an intelligent being... without it, the system would not function... or rather, if the system is not functioning, conciousness would not arise.

What does that mean then? We only percieve our own freedom of will... even if we know that the way we act, behave, think, etc is ultimately only a function of an uncountable number of lower level processes, from electro-chemical reactions at the neural level, to the even smaller reactions at the sub-atomic level, it doesn't change that perception... or it hardly changes it.

... I think, therefore I am. But am I what I think I am?

To be sure, there is a huge amount of brain processing that occurs before things reach our conciousness percept...

Not only does your brain have to perceive light, it has to percieve form in the light. After that, your brain scans the perception, alerts you to points of interest... cross references it with your memory, any negative associations that you need to be aware of...

so that you can respond to a sharp movement in your periphery, identify it as a snake, and take appropriate action; indeed, your brain in large part already decides for you what to do, immediately raising your heart beat, putting you on high alert. Your conciousness can then make the executive decision to fight or flee; sub-concniously cross referencing with your knowledge... whether or not you know how to deal with a snake, whether you have the appropriate tools to deal with the snake... whether you can run from the snake. It all happens incredibly quickly... certainly your conciousness wouldn't be able to process each decision individually... but the illusion is that you're making this choice based on rationale, when in reality, your brain is already telling you what to do... for the most part.
 
I can't spend too much time on this, since I'm at work -- but some of the answer to that question my lie within some of the research that's been done on Feral Children. It's interesting to read about the complete lack of human-like qualities that these children demonstrate. It's only until they're re-introduced into society where they begin to regain a sense of themselves and other more complicated concepts.
 
3pheMeraLmiX said:
I can't spend too much time on this, since I'm at work -- but some of the answer to that question my lie within some of the research that's been done on Feral Children. It's interesting to read about the complete lack of human-like qualities that these children demonstrate. It's only until they're re-introduced into society where they bein to regain a sense of themselves and other more complicated concepts.
Click to expand...

Yeah. The whole concept is of us domesticating ourselves is very curious and interesting. Maybe God/Aliens helped?
 
LunaClover said:
what tha?





...what were you doing exactly with that black leg?
Click to expand...

I was strolling around picking up girls, while wearing shorts. Then I collected all the girls I had picked up, and had sex with them. Pretty standard dream, but the leg was new. Perhaps tonight I'll have an Asian penis.
 
Daniel Dennett is probably the best on this topic. He's awesome. Get his book Consciousness Explained, and then go read a whole bunch of his articles HERE. Also this DVD set is really interesting. I wrote an essay in my communications class a few years ago on one of Dennett's articles, and got a good grade on it. I'll see if I could find it somewhere.

Fun fact- my professor in that class is also one of the speakers on that dvd set. :D
 
Brobzoid said:
I was strolling around picking up girls, while wearing shorts. Then I collected all the girls I had picked up, and had sex with them. Pretty standard dream, but the leg was new. Perhaps tonight I'll have an Asian penis.
Click to expand...
So, a nightmare, then?
 
Why does a platypus have webbed feet? Why does an elephant have a trunk?

Why is consciousness more worth pondering that the millions of other unique features of humans and animals?
 
Virgin Wii said:
Scientists will probably say that we have them because evolution experimented with conciousness as a survival mechanism and it worked very well, so it continued to develop up to the point where humans came into being.

They'd be able to tell it better.
Click to expand...

Honestly, these sorts of descriptions are really getting me.

Look closely at the way you're trying to describe the emergence of consciousness...it's based on such high degree of ideological deconstructionism. I don't know how others here view such descriptions, but to me it sounds equally as absurd as simply saying "well, the gods are responsible for it!". In other words, your description is of that same category: it simply doesn't say anything at all--it's just deconstructing regurgitation of some presupposed ideology.
 
Zaptruder said:
Conciousness is simply the collective of our active neural processes in a collated cohesive whole. It IS the sum of various brain functions that are required for basic operation.

I'd imagine there'd be an area (or types of neurons and neural path ways) that act towards binding the collective sum of the active experiences into a single perceptual experience for the sake of decision making efficiency or some such.

It is a byproduct of the way our brain functions and coallesces, rather than the aim of the universe... and it is ostensibly tied to living and what makes us human.

There is no such spirit/brain dualism... not only conciousness, but life as we know it, arises from the active function and interplay between massively complex neural networks, that we've only begun to scratch an understanding at.

Is it possible to be an automaton that acts as a human does but without that sense of conciousness? I would posit, no; the function of tying various percepts and brain functions together into a single cohesive experience is what makes our conciousness, and is required in order to function as an intelligent being... without it, the system would not function... or rather, if the system is not functioning, conciousness would not arise.

What does that mean then? We only percieve our own freedom of will... even if we know that the way we act, behave, think, etc is ultimately only a function of an uncountable number of lower level processes, from electro-chemical reactions at the neural level, to the even smaller reactions at the sub-atomic level, it doesn't change that perception... or it hardly changes it.

... I think, therefore I am. But am I what I think I am?

To be sure, there is a huge amount of brain processing that occurs before things reach our conciousness percept...

Not only does your brain have to perceive light, it has to percieve form in the light. After that, your brain scans the perception, alerts you to points of interest... cross references it with your memory, any negative associations that you need to be aware of...

so that you can respond to a sharp movement in your periphery, identify it as a snake, and take appropriate action; indeed, your brain in large part already decides for you what to do, immediately raising your heart beat, putting you on high alert. Your conciousness can then make the executive decision to fight or flee; sub-concniously cross referencing with your knowledge... whether or not you know how to deal with a snake, whether you have the appropriate tools to deal with the snake... whether you can run from the snake. It all happens incredibly quickly... certainly your conciousness wouldn't be able to process each decision individually... but the illusion is that you're making this choice based on rationale, when in reality, your brain is already telling you what to do... for the most part.
Click to expand...

It seems to me you're a physicalist, but would you endorse any form of immaterialism, such as emergent properties (i. e. liquidity)?
 
You are simply matter and consciousness is a side effect of it. You're made up of the same stuff as this desk, computer, and other things and you have no real purpose in life. So you find what satisifies the mind and senses, which of course is mental stimulation and sense objects.

So accumulate as many of these as you can before you die, to live out the materialistic way of life successfully. People in the future will glorify you as someone who was satisfied with life.
 
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