Support NeoGAF

[Lights and Waves]

During Batman Beyond, we learn that Barbara and Bruce were romantically involved. A lot of people lots their minds at this revelation and were instantly put off by it. I'm curious as to hearing why people don't or do like this paring.

Personally, I think it makes perfect sense. Yes, Barbara and Dick dated, but he left Gotham and the Bat Family. Barbara and Bruce worked side-by-side as partners for quite some time, and when the new Robin joined them, they continued to work together as partners up until the events of the Joker's death.

I never saw Bruce as a father figure to Barbara. Barbara was in college in the animated series (I believe she graduated too?) and Bruce was drawn without greying hair or wrinkles. In fact, he looks like he's in his late twenties so make an argument about age differences is kind of moot (and also kind of stupid too - age ain't nothing but a number).

While he was a father figure to Tim, he and Barbara didn't hold that same time of relationship. I think it's completely within the realm of possibility for the two to fall in love, and it adds a really interesting dimension of complexity for the animated series canon.

 

[Slayven]

Cause it is fucking creepy, she was a kid when they met

 

[Rockandrollclown]

Cause it is fucking creepy, she was a kid when they met

and we're done here

 

[Ray Down]

Cause it is fucking creepy, she was a kid when they met

.

 

[Sephzilla]

Because there's a substantial age-gap between them and because Barbara was pretty young when they met. I always imagined TAS Batman was in his 30s when Robin and Batgirl came into the picture, meaning there was at least a decade between the two. He was also dating basically his unofficial son's ex-girlfriend.

Cause it is fucking creepy, she was a kid when they met

/thread

 

[Pizoxuat]

You don't date your foster kid's ex-girlfriend. You don't date your friend's daughter. You especially don't take your foster kid's ex-girlfriend who is also your friend's daughter who you have mentored since she was a kid. Power dynamics all fucked up in there.

 

[Viewt]

It was just kind of a left-field pairing. The fact that it had never been brought up before (and because of Bruce's paternal role in the Bat Family) just bothered some people, I guess.

EDIT: Also, we're supposed to believe that Bruce dropped Diana for Babs? I like Babs. But come on. What are you doing, Bruce?

 

[peaceiscloser]

But isn't it the thing ludicrously rich people do these days

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

Grooming

 

[Beth Cyra]

You don't date your foster kid's ex-girlfriend. You don't date your friend's daughter. You especially don't take your foster kid's ex-girlfriend who is also your friend's daughter who you have mentored since she was a kid. Power dynamics all fucked up in there.

This.

Is how I always viewed it.

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

It feels like he was grooming her. Very very creepy and not okay.

But then again, Bruce Wayne was a creepy man to begin with.

 

[Viewt]

Oh, and for the record, I'm so thankful that I grew up watching these cartoons before shipping was a thing. Can you imagine the Tumblr art that would've been spawned from Roxy Rocket ALONE?

 

[akira28]

yeah that Bruce Barbara thing pretty much fucked Batman Beyond for me. Then again I only caught it via the comic books maybe a decade later.

 

[Jebusman]

Oh, and for the record, I'm so thankful that I grew up watching these cartoons before shipping was a thing. Can you imagine the Tumblr art that would've been spawned from Roxy Rocket ALONE?

There is no "before shipping was a thing". Shipping was always a thing. It just gained criticam mass/you began to notice it at some point.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

Mostly because he's usually 15-20 years older than her. If not more. Babs was still living at home when she began being Batgirl, so she's probably no older than her early 20s. Usually trending towards younger in many appearances, sort of like the various Robins. Bruce is easily in his 30s. There isn't really anything necessarily morally wrong with it or anything but it does come across as kind of icky. Plus he's also basically her boss and best friends with her dad, its just weird. Its like when you find out a girl at your job is dating the manager.

It's not like the series lacked for female characters more age and thematically appropriate for Bruce to shack up with. Selina, Vicki Vale, Talia al Ghul. But he hooks up with the one who is basically "Robin, but a girl". C'mon Bruce.....

 

[Viewt]

There is no "before shipping was a thing". Shipping was always a thing. It just gained critical mass/you began to notice it at some point.

Call it whatever you want. I'm just thankful to have lived in blissful ignorance for a time.

 

[exmachina64]

It was just kind of a left-field pairing. The fact that it had never been brought up before (and because of Bruce's paternal role in the Bat Family) just bothered some people, I guess.

EDIT: Also, we're supposed to believe that Bruce dropped Diana for Babs? I like Babs. But come on. What are you doing, Bruce?

All of this is true, however, I wouldn't blame Bruce for choosing someone that can age with him.

 

[Bronx-Man]

Cause it is fucking creepy, she was a kid when they met

One & done.

 

[Lashley]

Cause it is fucking creepy, she was a kid when they met

Wrap it up

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

All of this is true, however, I wouldn't blame Bruce for choosing someone that can age with him.

Wasn't that series made after Batman Beyond anyway? I just look at it like a very overt case of retcon

 

[CO_Andy]

Also goes against Bruce's principles.

Crime first relationships second. This is why Bruce is a lonely old man in the future.

 

[LakeEarth]

Batman showing any romantic feelings towards her would make it seem like training her was his way of "grooming" her, which is an uncomfortable thought.

 

[Slayven]

DC has trend

 

[Nemesis121]

Bruce loving some else other than Batman would be wrong..

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

Wrap it up

That would have been good advice for Bruce before he met Talia

 

[Grizzlyjin]

Because the idea that she would pass up Dick's buns of steel to be with Bruce is ludicrous. Ludicrous!

But seriously, I thought it was weird because he knew her when she was underage. I always imagined Bruce to be in his early 30s, so I had a 10+ year gap in my mind (which isn't a huge deal, but those are major years for her) and him being her mentor.

 

[Ophelion]

You don't date your foster kid's ex-girlfriend. You don't date your friend's daughter. You especially don't take your foster kid's ex-girlfriend who is also your friend's daughter who you have mentored since she was a kid. Power dynamics all fucked up in there.

This seems the most complete answer. In some ways, I understand it because for all the good he's done, Bruce is badly stunted emotionally and especially as he gets older, I could see him relating more and more to people younger than himself. Or, I guess more correctly, that he would relate less and less to people his own age. My willingness to believe it could be possible doesn't make it a good decision for the artist to make for the character and it doesn't excuse how fucking creepy that is for all the quoted reasons though.

 

[shoreu]

Cause it is fucking creepy, she was a kid when they met

this and he's pretty much her second father

 

[Ganzlinger]

You don't date your foster kid's ex-girlfriend. You don't date your friend's daughter. You especially don't take your foster kid's ex-girlfriend who is also your friend's daughter who you have mentored since she was a kid. Power dynamics all fucked up in there.

Yes, this is the problem.

But the age gap is meaningless towards two consenting adults.

 

[dabig2]

Woody Allen levels of creepy that it was is why people were put off.

 

[Zero-ELEC]

You don't date your son's ex who is also your friend's daughter and worked under you for a while. It's creepy and the power dynamic is fucked up.

Remember when he got her pregnant and went to Dick told him? Man, DCAU Bruce was a arsehole. No wonder he ended old and alone.

 

[Puck Beaverton]

Bruce Wayne finally has something in common with Woody Allen.

 

[spindashing]

Cause it is fucking creepy, she was a kid when they met

There we go.

 

[Zelias]

Age gap and the whole friend's daughter thing. Always came off as weird and out of left-field for me.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

DC has trend

Hal Jordan is the worst.

 

[ArgyleReptile]

Cause it is fucking creepy, she was a kid when they met

Yep.

 

[Sephzilla]

Man, DCAU Bruce was a arsehole.

Bruce turning into an asshole is probably the only major flaw I find in the DCAU. Early TAS Bruce feels like an entirely different person

 

[Kevinroc]

DC has trend

I knew there was a reason they basically skipped this guy in favor of Jon and (for a few brief cameos) Kyle in the old Bruce Timm cartoons.

Spoiler

I'm aware we had Hal in an episode involved with time travel shenanigans.

 

[spindashing]

Everytime I see that Hal Jordan pic, I want to ask for the context but I'm pretty sure even with context the dude's still a creep.

 

[NeonBlack]

Cause it is fucking creepy, she was a kid when they met

But we're all cool with his child soldiers?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I don't need Bruce Wayne emulating Woody Allen.

That's fucking stupid.

But we're all cool with his child soldiers?

Have been since before your Granpa was born.

 

[NumberTwo]

The relationship between Bruce and Barbara is that of father and daughter (ostensibly). It's incestious and gross.

 

[Goodstyle]

Personally, I think it makes perfect sense. Yes, Barbara and Dick dated, but he...

This isn't something that a lot of us can get past so easily. I'm not knocking the writers though, after what happened with the Joker I'd imagine they were both in a very dark place and things kind of took off from there...

 

[Kevinroc]

Everytime I see that Hal Jordan pic, I want to ask for the context but I'm pretty sure even with context the dude's still a creep.

http://goodcomics.comicbookresource...e-relationship-between-hal-jordan-and-arisia/

 

[Slayven]

Everytime I see that Hal Jordan pic, I want to ask for the context but I'm pretty sure even with context the dude's still a creep.

The fuckery of Hal Jordan is long and varied. At least Barry just sticks to being boring as fuck

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

Bruce turning into an asshole is probably the only major flaw I find in the DCAU. Early TAS Bruce feels like an entirely different person

Yeah. I hayed how they made him such a cold person in TNBA and Justice League (though he has his moments).

 

[Gentleman Jack]

DC has trend

Jesus shit was Luc Besson writing their comics for a spell there?

 

[WrenchNinja]

I dont really have a problem with it. I actually kind of like it conceptually as it leads to failure and is a representation of all of his relationships going down that path. It harms Dick, it harms Barbara, I'm sure it affected Jim too. It's fucked up and makes Bruce fallible and more human and makes Barbara wake up from what she thought was this romantic adventure and realising that Bruce is just a bitter old man.

 

[Tripon]

Cause it is fucking creepy, she was a kid when they met

Reed Richards met Sue storm when she was 12.

 

[Parallax]

Oh, and for the record, I'm so thankful that I grew up watching these cartoons before shipping was a thing. Can you imagine the Tumblr art that would've been spawned from Roxy Rocket ALONE?

Roxy should have been a bigger character. Hell she should still be.