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[Donnie]

To get to that 2x number, that would be throwing out the early dev specs and using the latest and greatest gpu design from amd.

Now how likely they went from a four year old card to a 2012 is another topic. I was giving best case.

I've said this to you before and I'll say it again. Developing a custom GPU isn't a process of starting at one retail GPU and moving to others along the way. GPU7 (I suppose I might as well use that name now ) started based on the R700 architecture (much like the HD5xxx and HDX6xxx are ultimately based on R700) but its been customised over a period of over 3 years now. By the time it was completed it'll be a different GPU, not a R700, not a R800 or any other retail part. It also won't use the same manufacturing process obviously.

 

[walking fiend]

2x ps360 in gpu performance is very powerful, I would agree.

I'd say it depends on the final price of the system.

If for example it is 299, that is only $50 more than the base PS3 model, I would say considering the added cost of GamePad, being 2x more powerful is really quite good for what one can realistically expect.

I've tried to explain this before but for some reason you aren't getting it. Developing a custom GPU isn't a process of starting at one retail GPU and moving to others along the way. GPU7 (I suppose I might as well use that name now ) started based on the R700 architecture (much like the HD5xxx and DX6xxx are ultimately based on R700) and was customised over a period of over 3 years. By the time it was completed it'll be a different GPU, not a R700, not a R800 or any other retail part. It also won't use the same manufacturing process obviously.

to support your point, again from Totilo's sources, they have said that WiiU DOES have DX 11 'capabilities'

 

[nordique]

2x ps360 in gpu performance is very powerful, I would agree.

You bring some good critical discussion up regarding the Wii U and its potential on term of its capability, and to that extent your points are welcomed for discussion sake.

But you should really drop this "definitive knowledge" about the GPU approach. None of the links you've provided, None of your "proof" or statistics regarding what the GPU is spec-wise are currently (100%) accurate. You do not know with absolute certainty how powerful the GPU is.

So definitive statements such as "its 2x as powerful" or "it has x y z" or "it is incapable of a b c" are all flawed because it is implied you know exactly what the GPU spec is

... which you still have yet to share.

 

[JordanN]

I've said this to you before and I'll say it again. Developing a custom GPU isn't a process of starting at one retail GPU and moving to others along the way. GPU7 (I suppose I might as well use that name now ) started based on the R700 architecture (much like the HD5xxx and DX6xxx are ultimately based on R700) but its been customised over a period of over 3 years now. By the time it was completed it'll be a different GPU, not a R700, not a R800 or any other retail part. It also won't use the same manufacturing process obviously.

This is very true and AMD said the same thing in their press release.

"The AMD custom graphics processor features a modern and rich graphics processing core, allowing the new console to shine with new graphics capabilities."
http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases/Pages/amd-and-nintendo-join-2011june07.aspx

The same couldn't be said if it was [strictly] R700 or even the later GPU's.

Also, in the same press release it mentions "multiple display support". An obvious nod to eyefinity which is beyond R700.

 

[Glorified G]

Here's one metric people can agree with!

It will be the most powerful gaming platform Nintendo has released by far!

You could have said that about the Wii in 2006.

 

[Hakai]

You could have said that about the Wii in 2006.

And Mario Galaxy was there to show that Art > graphics specs! =D

 

[nordique]

I've said this to you before and I'll say it again. Developing a custom GPU isn't a process of starting at one retail GPU and moving to others along the way. GPU7 (I suppose I might as well use that name now ) started based on the R700 architecture (much like the HD5xxx and DX6xxx are ultimately based on R700) but its been customised over a period of over 3 years now. By the time it was completed it'll be a different GPU, not a R700, not a R800 or any other retail part. It also won't use the same manufacturing process obviously.

Exactly. Even if it is similar to the 360 GPU on a raw performance level, GPUs don't work like that. What they can do is just as important; their feature sets are equally important.

I think most of us, who have been realistic about the Wii U in graphical expectations, expect a pretty lenient card in terms of performance, but something that is up-to-date in terms of feature-set.

This is very true and AMD said the same thing in their press release.

"The AMD custom graphics processor features a modern and rich graphics processing core, allowing the new console to shine with new graphics capabilities."
http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases/Pages/amd-and-nintendo-join-2011june07.aspx

The same couldn't be said if it was [strictly] R700 or even the later GPU's.

AMD will sell their product however they must. They hyped the original Wii GPU up beyond what they should have. Its their business; its business sense 101 so its not a knock against them.

That said, I do agree it will be a "2012" card. I think that press release is not the place to look for, for proof however. They could specifically be looking at the Wii U under the context of the previous console, the Wii, for instance.

 

[Donnie]

You could have said that about the Wii in 2006.

I wouldn't have agreed if you had..

I don't consider 50% more to be far more powerful, especially with exactly the same architecture.

 

[axisofweevils]

Team Ninja talks about the chances of a Dead Or Alive 5 Wii U version:

Right now, we’re doing our best to get the game ready for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360. After players get their hands on Dead or Alive 5 we want to hear what they think and based on that we’ll see if we should make a Wii U version.

http://www.siliconera.com/2012/06/2...on-virtua-fighter-collaboration-danger-zones/

 

[Hakai]

Team Ninja talks about the chances of a Dead Or Alive 5 Wii U version:



http://www.siliconera.com/2012/06/2...on-virtua-fighter-collaboration-danger-zones/

Lol, so they are testing the game out in the Ps3/Xbox360 and then taking notes to make the perfect version for the Wii U?

 

[Gahiggidy]

Compared to what I'd have liked to see Nintendo have in a next gen console. What I think a next gen console should look like wouldn't work in that case. And even that GPU on a 28nm process would push it too close for Wii U's case as is.

How much larger, in cubic inches, would you have liked the wii u to be?

 

[USC-fan]

You bring some good critical discussion up regarding the Wii U and its potential on term of its capability, and to that extent your points are welcomed for discussion sake.

But you should really drop this "definitive knowledge" about the GPU approach. None of the links you've provided, None of your "proof" or statistics regarding what the GPU is spec-wise are currently (100%) accurate. You do not know with absolute certainty how powerful the GPU is.

So definitive statements such as "its 2x as powerful" or "it has x y z" or "it is incapable of a b c" are all flawed because it is implied you know exactly what the GPU spec is

... which you still have yet to share.

of course we don't 100% of the specs but we have a great idea. 2x gpu flop performance is best case. This is using the latest gpu designs from amd. From every design back from current the performance gets worse.

Given the power range it pretty easy to guess performance given we know its an amd gpu.

I've said this to you before and I'll say it again. Developing a custom GPU isn't a process of starting at one retail GPU and moving to others along the way. GPU7 (I suppose I might as well use that name now ) started based on the R700 architecture (much like the HD5xxx and HDX6xxx are ultimately based on R700) but its been customised over a period of over 3 years now. By the time it was completed it'll be a different GPU, not a R700, not a R800 or any other retail part. It also won't use the same manufacturing process obviously.

That is not true. Different gpu design do not just base it on pass design. They are redesigned, some may be just improvements but gnc for example is not.. Now for the wiiu to start at a 4 year old design doesn't make much sense when better design were already out. I have yet to hear a good argument to why they would start t r700 if they plan to move to evergreen or whatever new design.

This is very true and AMD said the same thing in their press release.

"The AMD custom graphics processor features a modern and rich graphics processing core, allowing the new console to shine with new graphics capabilities."
http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases/Pages/amd-and-nintendo-join-2011june07.aspx

The same couldn't be said if it was [strictly] R700 or even the later GPU's.

Also, in the same press release it mentions "multiple display support". An obvious nod to eyefinity which is beyond R700.

that doesn't mean anything. Muitiple display support been in amd gpu years before eyefinity.

My x800 from before the x360 launch supported this...

 

[Glorified G]

Except I wouldn't have agreed if you had..

I don't consider 50% more to be far more powerful, especially with exactly the same architecture.

Whether it was far more powerful or not, It still was the most powerful console Nintendo released at the time, which says that talking point doesn't mean much.

 

[Ala Alba]

How much larger, in square inches, would you have liked the wii u to be?

Surely you mean cubic inches?

 

[D-e-f-]

Take this with a grain of salt, but here's a supposed feature set for NiN

Free Online Services
DLC
Online Shop containing Virtual Console, Indy, Freeware and Full Retail Titles
Weekly Discounts
Cross Platform Communication with 3DS, PC, Smartphones and Tablets (at later date)
Video Chat with friends
Account System
Message Boards
Achievements (will be posted on Miiverse, not mandatory)
Multiple Levels of Security*
Web Browser w/flash support, private browsing, on (controller)screen keyboard
Multimedia services including Netflix and Hulu
in-game access to Miiverse and Browser

There's no source listed other than it from the Investor meeting.
http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/t...k-achievements-virtual-console-etc.452555920/

Where have you been sense E3? Only thing on this list that hasn't been confirmed is Freeware.

yup, that's all old news. stuff we've learned in January when Nintendo Network got revealed (account system), bits from interviews (achievements not mandatory), the pre-E3 Nintendo Direct (PC/3DS/Phone access), E3 itself (Netflix, etc).

freeware and the weekly discounts are what's new. they've done freeware before though (swapnote, flipnote studio, pokédex 3D, Wii browser etc) and they're currently introducing their customers to the concept of sales (... err ...yea) on the 3DS eShop.

 

[blu]

Gpu 7 equal r700. Which is the gpu code name from amd. Wiiu only have one gpu.

AMD's codename of the U-GPU is most definitely not "r700".

 

[Linkhero1]

Team Ninja talks about the chances of a Dead Or Alive 5 Wii U version:



http://www.siliconera.com/2012/06/2...on-virtua-fighter-collaboration-danger-zones/

I'll only buy this version if it features some exclusive content from Nintendo.

 

[Donnie]

That is not true. Different gpu design do not just base it on pass design. They are redesigned, some may be just improvements but gnc for example is not..

Yes it is true, plenty of "new" GPU's are heavily based on past GPU's from the same company. Most others only use past GPU's as some kind of base even if they're highly modified. If you think any company throws away everything they've done in the past and creates entirely new chips every couple of years you're completely incorrect.

Now for the wiiu to start at a 4 year old design doesn't make much sense when better design were already out. I have yet to hear a good argument to why they would start t r700 if they plan to move to evergreen or whatever new design.

Again GPU7 started development in early 2009. Unless you think that R700 was around in 2005 then they didn't start with a 4 year old design did they?

You're also just not getting the whole development process again. Why do you keep talking about moving to Evergreen ect? We're talking about a 3-4 year design process for a custom GPU. That means starting with a certain architecture and adding to and removing from it until its the chip you want. It doesn't mean starting with one retail GPU and then moving to another whenever AMD release a new graphics card.

 

[snowdog1971]

Are all of you guys still buying the Wii U at launch?

Yup, definitely. ZombiU is enough for me to justify a day one purchase. I've been waiting for bloody years for a proper Resident Evil game...still find it difficult to believe that it's coming from Ubisoft of all publishers! Resident Evil Revelations came close but there was still too much ammo for my liking and it was a bit too easy.

Lego City Undercover is also a system seller for me personally, I love those Lego games and a Lego GTA is instantly full of Instant Win with Awesome Sauce.

 

[USC-fan]

AMD's codename of the U-GPU is most definitely not "r700".

Of course not. Never said that...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon_R700

Again GPU7 started development in early 2009. Unless you think that R700 was around in 2005 then they didn't start with a 4 year old design did they?

You're also just not getting the whole development process again. Why do you keep talking about moving this evergreen ect? Do you seriously think Nintendo are created a custom chip over a 3-4 year period by starting with one AMD design and then just changing it every time AMD bring out a new chip and then finally sticking with one of them? That's not how you create a custom GPU designed specifically to do what you need for your console. That's not what you spend millions in R&D on.

that is how the ps3 and x360 design their gpu. They based the final off of a future design and updated the dev kits with the latest gpus design from nvidia/amd.

And I agree with you that I believe they stay with a r700 gpu core. I don't believe they move to a different core. People have been throwing out the new gpu core because the performance is a lot per watt.

Also the reason you go with an amd gpu because you don't have to spend millions on r&d.

 

[Donnie]

Whether it was far more powerful or not, It still was the most powerful console Nintendo released at the time, which says that talking point doesn't mean much.

If you change his words then no they don't mean much..

 

[blu]

Of course not. Never said that...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon_R700

It's none of those either.

 

[Donnie]

It's none of those either.

He can't grasp the idea of developing a custom part. He's got it stuck permanently in his head that GPU development means choosing a GPU from ebuyer, then if something newer comes out, buy that instead, finally stick with one and use it for your console.

 

[Adeshina365]

1. If Durango and Orbis end up using Jaguar cores, just howmuch more capable are lets say 4 of them in comparison to Xenon and Cell?

2. If the Wii U's CPU ends up being less capable than Xenon and Cell as several sources have said now what would be the difference in power between the Wii U's CPU and 4 Jaguar cores?

3. If Durango's final GPU is 1.5 Tflops and Orbis's 2Tflops, would the fact that the Wii U would have a significantly weaker CPU and 3X+ weaker GPU (assuming the Wii U's GPU is 500GFlops) in addition to more RAM (Durango to have 2GDDR5+4DDR3) make ports designed for Durango and Orbis unportable?

4. With a potentially large powergap, even if ports are possible just howmuch do you think the Wii U version would have to be scaled down? Since Durango and Orbis games will likely all be 720p just howmuch geometry, lighting ect. would have to be scaled down?

 

[axisofweevils]

WayForward talk about their Wii U plans in a Nintendojo interview:

ND: Speaking of Shantae, is there anything coming down the pipeline that you can talk about?

Voldi: Um, I mean, I wish I could say something specific, but we are working on it. Like I would expect to see it on, you know, Wii U, uh, it’s just, I don’t want to commit to a time because it always gets– even though we have been working on it, you know, like I said it gets pushed to the back burner, so um, originally we were hoping to have something for launch, but that’s clearly not going to happen. But yeah, Shantae is definitely in the works, and the last one, Risky’s Revenge, kind of left off on, like, a down note, so we have to address that, right? So yeah, definitely more Shantae, for sure.

ND: Now regarding something like BloodRayne, do you know what the possibility is of bringing that to Wii U?

Voldi: Um, well, tech-wise, totally, we’re all set, so I guess that’s up to them. You know what? You should bug them about it, and we’ll bug them, you know, because I don’t know why that one didn’t come up. I mean, they talked about putting it on Steam and stuff like that, but now that you mention it, they haven’t mentioned Wii U yet, and it should be on it.

http://www.nintendojo.com/features/interviews/e3-2012-interview-with-wayforward

Link via RMC.

 

[DeviousAngel]

Do you guys think I'm weird?

I think you're a fascinating creature.

Lol, so they are testing the game out in the Ps3/Xbox360 and then taking notes to make the perfect version for the Wii U?

Using WiiU for damage control, huh? I don't really know if I'm ok with this on principle. :/

But I dunno if that's what Shimbori meant. To me that statement is just another way of saying "we'll take the wait-and-see approach with WiiU." Pretty much the same old story.

 

[Donnie]

1. If Durango and Orbis end up using Jaguar cores, just howmuch more capable are lets say 4 of them in comparison to Xenon and Cell?

2. If the Wii U's CPU ends up being less capable than Xenon and Cell as several sources have said now what would be the difference in power between the Wii U's CPU and 4 Jaguar cores

A 4 core Jaguar CPU would actually be weaker than Xenon and Cell in the same way WiiU's CPU is weaker (floating point performance). But for most things all three CPU's (WiiU/XBox3/PS4) will be stronger. How much so isn't something we can know currently.

3. If Durango's final GPU is 1.5 Tflops and Orbis's 2Tflops, would the fact that the Wii U would have a significantly weaker CPU and 3X+ weaker GPU (assuming the Wii U's GPU is 500GFlops) in addition to more RAM (Durango to have 2GDDR5+4DDR3) make ports designed for Durango and Orbis unportable?

4. With a potentially large powergap, even if ports are possible just howmuch do you think the Wii U version would have to be scaled down? Since Durango and Orbis games will likely all be 720p just howmuch geometry, lighting ect. would have to be scaled down?

Unportable no, not with a similar architecture. But how much things would need to be downscaled is almost impossible to say at this point. It looks like PS4 will have somewhere between 2-4GB of RAM, so at most twice WiiU. XBox3 may be the odd one out if it really does end up with 8GB, though it could also be the case that a huge amount of that 8GB will go towards media functions. Again, its all speculation.

 

[USC-fan]

He can't grasp the idea of developing a custom part. He's got it stuck permanently in his head that GPU development means choosing a GPU from ebuyer, then if something newer comes out, buy that instead, finally stick with one and use it for your console.

Too funny. That is exactly what I said.

You believe this means they starting with an amd design and Nintendo redesign to make it 10x powerful. Got it...

Hardware runs on magic and fairy dust after all.... too true!

 

[snesfreak]

Too funny. That is exactly what I said.

You believe this means they starting with an amd design and Nintendo redesign to make it 10x powerful. Got it...

...

 

[Sadist]

Sweet, it's a thunder monkey thread now

I like it

 

[japtor]

Also, no replies to my post on CPU threading?

I did...part of it at least:
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=39349930

But what about its actual dimensions of the case? It's not much thicker than the Wii, yet much longer and quite a bit wider. I think I understand why Volume is a big deal, but from a scientific point of view, in the hypothetical scenario where you have two consoles with the same volume but different case dimensions, they would dissipate heat differently. I know very little about tech so the same principles may not even apply here.

From some quick searching (inches, cubic inches):
Wii:  8.48x6.18x1.73 = 90.67
U:  10.5x6.8x1.8 = 128.52
360 S:  10.6x10.4x2.9 = 319.70

Of course the 360 has a funky shape so that's overstating the volume a bit, more so if you assume everything fits in a rectangular shape like a flat motherboard (i.e. in a rectangular volume within).  If you measure from the thinnest points in the case that'd give you the most ideal comparison point.

And if you're curious, the DVD drive itself appears to be 54.5 cu.in.

But thats not the concept behind consoles is it?
Consoles tend to be highly specialized designs that require developers to put extra work in to get interesting results out.
See PS3 with the Cell, See Wii & GC with TEV, etc.

I could see that changing moving forward, entirely because the console generational changes tend to be a bitch.  I mentioned a few times before that I wouldn't be surprised if they adopt the computer model to an extent, like keep long cycles with generational power leaps, but compatible hardware/software.

yup, that's all old news. stuff we've learned in January when Nintendo Network got revealed (account system), bits from interviews (achievements not mandatory), the pre-E3 Nintendo Direct (PC/3DS/Phone access), E3 itself (Netflix, etc).

freeware and the weekly discounts are what's new. they've done freeware before though (swapnote, flipnote studio, pokédex 3D, Wii browser etc) and they're currently introducing their customers to the concept of sales (... err ...yea) on the 3DS eShop.

Freeware was sort of implied I thought, Iwata said they'd allow free to play a little while back at least.  The only one that seems completely new to me is Flash support.  I'd be a little surprised cause Adobe already gave up on mobile development, and Flash itself tends to be a hassle from a security standpoint.

 

[DynamicG]

Too funny. That is exactly what I said.

You believe this means they starting with an amd design and Nintendo redesign to make it 10x powerful. Got it...

Hardware runs on magic and fairy dust after all.... too true!

He never said it was 10X more powerful. Customization is a more complicated process that is more about features than a raw power multiplier. Nobody said it runs on magic or fairy dust either nor that it was some sort of hardware beast that will be close to PS4 or 720. You are being obtuse about this and people have been very patient with you in this thread.

*Edited because I vaguely misunderstood what Donnie was discussing with USC

 

[Glorified G]

If you change his words then no they don't mean much..

I think you should read it again.

Here's one metric people can agree with!

It will be the most powerful gaming platform Nintendo has released by far!

 

[Donnie]

Of course not. Never said that...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon_R700



that is how the ps3 and x360 design their gpu. They based the final off of a future design and updated the dev kits with the latest gpus design from nvidia/amd.

And I agree with you that I believe they stay with a r700 gpu core. I don't believe they move to a different core. People have been throwing out the new gpu core because the performance is a lot per watt.

Also the reason you go with an amd gpu because you don't have to spend millions on r&d.

The XBox 360 GPU was actually a separate project but the process of developing it ended up being used in future AMD parts. PS3's GPU is a different case, its barely custom at all. Its completely untrue to say that going with AMD means you don't spend R&D money, not if you're designing a custom part over a long period of time.

Again, you keep ignoring the fact that they've been developing GPU7 for 3-4 years. What would be the point of that development process if you were going to:

A: Leave the GPU the same as it was in 2009
B: Just keep moving to whatever AMD brings out up until you release your consoles.

There wouldn't be any point.

If by staying with the R700 core you mean VLIW then yes that's very likely. If you mean it will actually be a R700, well then I don't know what I can say because I think I've made it clear to you why that's a ludicrous idea.

 

[blu]

Sorry, I missed this part previously..

that is how the ps3 and x360 design their gpu. They based the final off of a future design and updated the dev kits with the latest gpus design from nvidia/amd.

The development of the RSX and Xenos are so different in evolutionary aspects that they're like the opposite case studies in the industry.

RSX was a part that was literally a (down-) tuning of a consumer market sibling part that was aimed at the same timeframe.

Xenos was a branch-off from a paradigm-shifting design that had been too long in development, and whose other branch led to the R600 consumer lineup. The Xenos branch in its turn led to the creation of the Yamato series, which eventually ended up as QCOM's Adreno.

And I agree with you that I believe they stay with a r700 gpu core. I don't believe they move to a different core. People have been throwing out the new gpu core because the performance is a lot per watt.

You might need to derigidify your beliefs ; )

 

[Gahiggidy]

USC-fan, do you think the Wii U will be powerful enough to allow for great 3rd party support?

Can we reasonably expect the hardware to be apart of the mix of 720/ps3/pc multiplatform projects?

 

[Donnie]

I think you should read it again.

No I shouldn't mate, you basically just said you're ignoring the "by far" part of his comment. Its quite an important aspect of what he said to be honest..

 

[D-e-f-]

I did...part of it at least:
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=39349930

Freeware was sort of implied I thought, Iwata said they'd allow free to play a little while back at least.  The only one that seems completely new to me is Flash support.  I'd be a little surprised cause Adobe already gave up on mobile development, and Flash itself tends to be a hassle from a security standpoint.

you're right. for some reason, I didn't make a connection between freeware and free-to-play (probably because freeware sounds soooo 2002^^)

that "message board" bit could also be kinda new depending on what it refers to. are there full on message boards integrated, effectively marking the comeback of the official nintendo forums that closed a few years back but integrated into the console OR is that referring to the twitter-style messages we've already seen.

supporting Flash is a good move, I think. If they want to hype up the web browsing with the tablet then Flash for videos is kinda big since that's still everywhere.

 

[Glorified G]

No I shouldn't mate, you basically just said you're ignoring the "by far" part of his comment. Its quite an important aspect of what he said to be honest..

Yeah I was, I was more focused on the "most powerful" part, nvm.

 

[USC-fan]

USC-fan, do you think the Wii U will be powerful enough to allow for great 3rd party support?

Can we reasonably expect the hardware to be apart of the mix of 720/ps3/pc multiplatform projects?

Hardware has little to do with this. As you see even current gen games are not getting wiiu versions.

But i really dont see the need of multi-platform games. Unless they look way better than the ps360 version i dont see many people buying then on this console.

It would be better just to get game that take advantages of the wiiu tablet.

If you are asking from a tech level, I would say yes there will be a problem porting games from the rumor ps4/720. When we have better details we can give a better answer. But I dont feel this would be the biggest problem.

Sorry, I missed this part previously..


The development of the RSX and Xenos are so different in evolutionary aspects that they're like the opposite case studies in the industry.

RSX was a part that was literally a (down-) tuning of a consumer market sibling part that was aimed at the same timeframe.

Xenos was a branch-off from a paradigm-shifting design that had been too long in development, and whose other branch led to the R600 consumer lineup. The Xenos branch in its turn led to the creation of the Yamato series, which eventually ended up as QCOM's Adreno.


You might need to derigidify your beliefs ; )

The point was that either console started with one gpu design throughout the dev kits. They went from sud-6800, 6800 to 7800 to RSX. Xbox 360 did the same. He was making the point that they started with r700 beacuase it was the only one out at that time and it didnt make sense to move to evergreen or another core because it already a custom part. His understanding of what makes it a custom part is wayyy out there I believe.

The XBox 360 GPU was actually a separate project but the process of developing it ended up being used in future AMD parts. PS3's GPU is a different case, its barely custom at all. Its completely untrue to say that going with AMD means you don't spend R&D money, not if you're designing a custom part over a long period of time.

Again, you keep ignoring the fact that they've been developing GPU7 for 3-4 years. What would be the point of that development process if you were going to:

A: Leave the GPU the same as it was in 2009
B: Just keep moving to whatever AMD brings out up until you release your consoles.

There wouldn't be any point.

If by staying with the R700 core you mean VLIW then yes that's very likely. If you mean it will actually be a R700, well then I don't know what I can say because I think I've made it clear to you why that's a ludicrous idea.

When you say designing a "custom part" what do you think it means? Are you saying they started with a r700 core and then completely redesign it and made it completely custom? That is why you think they spent 4-5 year designing this gpu?

And really it doesn matter, amd VLIW designs is what I been basing every statement on. You have performance per watt for every different VLIW design. It really doesnt change much until you get into GCN. Even using GCN performance per watt put us a little over 550 gflops at 35w or double the raw performance of ps360. That is best case for whatever crazy theory you go by even if they spend 10 more year "designing" this gpu.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

You could have said that about the Wii in 2006.

Whether it was far more powerful or not, It still was the most powerful console Nintendo released at the time, which says that talking point doesn't mean much.

I wouldn't have agreed if you had..

I don't consider 50% more to be far more powerful, especially with exactly the same architecture.

If you change his words then no they don't mean much..

I think you should read it again.

No I shouldn't mate, you basically just said you're ignoring the "by far" part of his comment. Its quite an important aspect of what he said to be honest..

Yeah I was, I was more focused on the "most powerful" part, nvm.

Damn you guys can kill a joke can't you?

I still <3 both of you though.

 

[AJSousuke]

I'll only buy this version if it features some exclusive content from Nintendo.

A ninja Samus

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Sweet, it's a thunder monkey thread now

I like it

It was DealwithitMoto.

Now they're arguing with USC again.

I like him... but I like everyone. He gave me a cookie once. Give a monkey a cookie or acknowledge him in any way and you've got a friend for life.

I'm trying to get you to give me a cookie now.

 

[Fourth Storm]

I did...part of it at least:
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=39349930

Totally missed that! Thanks, that is a useful analogy.

 

[snesfreak]

It was DealwithitMoto.

Now they're arguing with USC again.

I like him... but I like everyone. He gave me a cookie once. Give a monkey a cookie or acknowledge him in any way and you've got a friend for life.

I'm trying to get you to give me a cookie now.

*holds out a cookie but snatches it back before you can take it*

 

[Sadist]

Sigh... the DoA 5 comment.

It going to be a loooooooong year.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

*holds out a cookie but snatches it back before you can take it*

TAUNTING THE MONKEY LEADS TO BITES AND SEXUAL BASED ASSAULTS! MAYBE FECES IF I ATE ENOUGH COOKIES!

You're on thin ice mister.

*icy glare*

 

[snesfreak]

TAUNTING THE MONKEY LEADS TO BITES AND SEXUAL BASED ASSAULTS! MAYBE FECES IF I ATE ENOUGH COOKIES!

You're on thin ice mister.

*icy glare*

Oh you silly monkey.

 

[japtor]

you're right. for some reason, I didn't make a connection between freeware and free-to-play (probably because freeware sounds soooo 2002^^)

that "message board" bit could also be kinda new depending on what it refers to. are there full on message boards integrated, effectively marking the comeback of the official nintendo forums that closed a few years back but integrated into the console OR is that referring to the twitter-style messages we've already seen.

supporting Flash is a good move, I think. If they want to hype up the web browsing with the tablet then Flash for videos is kinda big since that's still everywhere.

The thing they showed (in the Nintendo Direct video) seemed more like a message board than Twitter, although I'm thinking it might be automatically tied to points in games/context aware or something (I guess vaguely like Dark Souls' messages?).

And yeah I wouldn't mind Flash, but lack of it can be overcome, like it's not like it's been a huge hinderance for the iPhone and iPad.  (That said I miss it for questionable legitimacy TV show websites, and a few legitimate ones here and there like Hulu, otherwise not much)

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Oh you silly monkey.

I was really mad for a minute there.

Then someone in another thread distracted me.