-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Wii U Community Thread
- Thread starter Metroid Hunter
- Start date
- Status
metalslimer
Member
Exactly its bad comparison. Also where did that screen come from because I don't remember L4D2 looking nearly that good on 360.
JordanN
Banned
MadeInBeats
Banned
Lol, yeah, come on now lads you've got to come up with something better than that. Not a bad looking game but looks more like a DD title compared to today's Zombie U extravaganza. And if it is easily done on current gen, then you shouldn't have to struggle finding something ;-)
You can't even spell "juxtaposition" in scrabble, though
Fancy joining the team? Dude who speaks 3 languages, 2 of them better than English and someone who knows how to play it... I'll just shake the bag.
bgassassin
Member
I think it's a part of the psychological aspect in the game. Like how we see the teacher's "ghost" run in front of the character. Well that and how that teacher as the boss "goes ghost" after a few shots and then reappears somewhere else in the room. Makes me wonder what else they have in store along those lines.
I like it. It reminds me of an old Twilight Zone episode where a woman hears a child singing "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star" - and the child isn't really there. It adds a nice creepiness factor to the setting.
nordique
Member
L4D comparison isn't very fair. That game utilizes the technology elsewhere and frankly graphics was never its strong suit.
Condemned 2 is a more fair comparison. I feel the lighting in ZombiU is superb, but the character models are weak. Compared to these PS3/360 shots (which has at least half the ram of the Wii U) it leaves something to be desired. My opinion.
Condemned 2 is a more fair comparison. I feel the lighting in ZombiU is superb, but the character models are weak. Compared to these PS3/360 shots (which has at least half the ram of the Wii U) it leaves something to be desired. My opinion.
Ewwww.. those are hideous! (just kidding!)
Seeing nice screenshots like that leaves me wondering - precisely how are the PS720 machines going to "blow them out of the water?" When we're pausing in order to examine stillshots in search of differences, that speaks volumes to Iwata's assertion that the big hardware differences are going to matter less and less.
Kinda makes all of this FLOPs and gigs discussion seem a bit silly to me.
But I've gotta admit.. it's going to be very entertaining when we see folks making the argument with a straight face that this level of visual capability is "not good enough" for them, haha! : P
Seeing nice screenshots like that leaves me wondering - precisely how are the PS720 machines going to "blow them out of the water?" When we're pausing in order to examine stillshots in search of differences, that speaks volumes to Iwata's assertion that the big hardware differences are going to matter less and less.
Kinda makes all of this FLOPs and gigs discussion seem a bit silly to me.
But I've gotta admit.. it's going to be very entertaining when we see folks making the argument with a straight face that this level of visual capability is "not good enough" for them, haha! : P
bgassassin
Member
Yeah. If ED2 still comes out, it may not have much originality to it, haha.
MadeInBeats
Banned
Not a bad looking game. Better example than L4D2 but still isn't touching ZU. I was going to say not native 720, but apparently it is, so say B3D (Condemned 2 = 1280x720 (no AA)) Still no comparison overall.
Nostremitus
Member
My thoughts exactly. I personally don't think we're gonna see a huge jump again. At least not until new imaging technology emerges, and I'm not talking about higher resolutions... We are reaching a point where it's gonna be all about art direction and visual style....
darkness_s
Member
Lighting does seem to be very good in a lot of WiiU games, I wonder why.
lostinblue
Banned
I always though of ZombiU as a Condemned style of game, it's not open space and it's not about overwhelming enemy numbers either. So it's hard to judge against those titles.
Also, the demo I played last month was very glitchy (it froze more than once) and I don't know if it was the game code itself, but it was running very slow, like 10 frames per second slow in the buckingham palace entry zone. Again, the test unit could be tripping.
Apart from some high polygon objects and some crisp textures (for 7th generation console's standards) it didn't look that hot. This build is a different story altogether.
I like the modeling on ZombiU, reminds me of House of the Dead Overkill. But yeah, it's certainly not "AAA", to me it has the equivalent feeling to a B-movie, hard to explain. Also still needs some work.
As for Crysis 2, I gotta say the game didn't impress me that much. I mean it's scope destroyed the realism it strived for. Good tech demo for an engine and huge levels, but not much "real detail" on the way things destroy themselves, ground textures, etc. It short circuited my brain in a way because it was killing the illusion.
(of course, they still had the balls a lot of developers lack, but still)
Also, the demo I played last month was very glitchy (it froze more than once) and I don't know if it was the game code itself, but it was running very slow, like 10 frames per second slow in the buckingham palace entry zone. Again, the test unit could be tripping.
Apart from some high polygon objects and some crisp textures (for 7th generation console's standards) it didn't look that hot. This build is a different story altogether.
I like the modeling on ZombiU, reminds me of House of the Dead Overkill. But yeah, it's certainly not "AAA", to me it has the equivalent feeling to a B-movie, hard to explain. Also still needs some work.
I'm sure it could, albeit scaled down considering where it's headed.
As for Crysis 2, I gotta say the game didn't impress me that much. I mean it's scope destroyed the realism it strived for. Good tech demo for an engine and huge levels, but not much "real detail" on the way things destroy themselves, ground textures, etc. It short circuited my brain in a way because it was killing the illusion.
(of course, they still had the balls a lot of developers lack, but still)
GiantEnemyGoomba
Member
What exactly hasn't looked consistently good in the games we've seen? I know nothing has really looked obviously better than last gen, but there hasn't been a specific graphical feature that's looked underwhelming to me. On a launch game standard at least.
On a side note, I really like the gasps you hear from the character in ZombiU. It gave off a feeling of desperation. I think there's some other interesting bits about this game we've yet to see.
On a side note, I really like the gasps you hear from the character in ZombiU. It gave off a feeling of desperation. I think there's some other interesting bits about this game we've yet to see.
So far I've heard the consensus is that the difference between wii U and PS4/720 is going to be like low to high settings on PC, but given that low settings on the PC are not optimized to the hardware is running it. Do you think that the difference is going to be more like Crysis 2 on consoles vs PC at max settings? Cause I'll definitively would be ok with this.
http://amtech.vn/threads/140759/
And I think mainstream market including those not tech savvy hardcores would be too.
http://amtech.vn/threads/140759/
And I think mainstream market including those not tech savvy hardcores would be too.
chertipros
Member
LEGO city undercover and Batman arkham City armored edition both look like they could be better. worst looking wii u games IMO
Nostremitus
Member
Have there been direct feed videos of either of those, or did you see them at an event?
Barack Lesnar
Banned
The lighting is definitely nice but I don't consider ZombiU a next-gen game in the graphical sense. Crysis 2 on consoles is comparable, as well as the Sony exclusives. Halo 4 as well. And none of them are next-gen games, they're all on current gen consoles. Watch_Dogs, Star Wars 1313, those have next-gen visuals. ZombiU looks great for a Wii U launch game but let's not get carried away. I mean I've only seen like 3 or 4 characters on screen at once.
Probably its quicker and easier to implement and doesn't require the design time of say high quality textures.
Watchdogs is releasing on ps3 and the 360
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Ubi's been kinda weird about it when asked. The version we saw footage of certainly won't be.
Clairvoyance
Member
Cool story.
bgassassin
Member
I think I see where you're going with this, but if I understand you correctly the same benefits apply to the next PS and Xbox keeping the range the same.
As for the link, I don't see why Wii U couldn't have a better looking version than that.
After all Wii U is supposed do better than seven-year old hardware. >_>
nordique
Member
Agree very much. I think Epic's UE3 and UE4 comparison (a few pages back I linked two shots) speaks volumes on how close that gap can be.
Its going to be more of what we have, and more of an evolution than a full leap; at the same time as similar as the UE3 and UE4 shots are, I also thought there was a very clear difference, and a markedly strong difference. Most of that would be due to new features.
Keep in mind the Wii U purportedly has a modern graphics card, and Iwata himself said we've only seen "half" of its potential. So there is room to grow.
ZombiU is great, and the lighting is excellent but it should not be used as a barometer for anything other than a launch game. The gap will be better later on in the Wii U's life.
Think Resistance 1 vs Killzone 3 as that gap.
You saying what we've seen of 1313 and Watch_Dogs is what 720 and PS4 will be like? 1313 especially was on top end pc hardware.
JordanN
Banned
Technically, the Wii U can cheat next gen. Developers could just make games for the controller. Fewer resources are consumed. Boom.
I can see this being popular with the Jap devs as a way of getting the handheld audience (biggest market there) to move over.
Disclaimer: The last sentence is purely theoretical and not researched.
I can see this being popular with the Jap devs as a way of getting the handheld audience (biggest market there) to move over.
Disclaimer: The last sentence is purely theoretical and not researched.
So I was looking forward to Zombie U before but now now it's a day 1 buy.
Anyway, it seems like the E3 build's textures were muddy compared to this current build. My question is what could have happened in a month to remedy this? Is it something simple like... I dunno, putting better textures in the build package. I feel like this is the build that should have been shown at e3.
****edit***
I am genuinely asking. Not try to sound snarky.
Anyway, it seems like the E3 build's textures were muddy compared to this current build. My question is what could have happened in a month to remedy this? Is it something simple like... I dunno, putting better textures in the build package. I feel like this is the build that should have been shown at e3.
****edit***
I am genuinely asking. Not try to sound snarky.
Pretty sure that has more to do with the vibe of the game, rather than some tecnical limitation of the system. There are going to be other games with a lot more going on. Survival horror has never been about quantity.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Yeah I'd like to think so, hopefully within 2 years of their launches.
Good point.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
The Zelda demo but better, in an open environment not a room, and more characters. I wouldn't be surprised if that Zelda demo is surpassed on WiiU within 2 to 2 1/2 years. I'm just guessing, I don't know anything.
My point is precisely across all consoles including PC. I have no doubt we will get better graphics on Wii U than what crysis look on consoles right now but as far as the las part of this generations has showed us, differences between PC and consoles is not that much even with seven years old hardware. I think next gen differences between Wii U, other consoles and PC would be equivalent to what games like BF3 and Crysis 2 has showed us this gen. Not like minimum to maximum settings on PC wich IMO is a lot more noticeable. (This given developers place equal effort on all versions).
I think this would also lead to more people owning only one console unlike this gen.
bgassassin
Member
Yeah I don't think you want to take on a horde of zombies if it only takes one bite to die. The game already seems unforgiving as it is.
This, scaled down somewhat
Are you being serious or just joking? lol.
bgassassin
Member
Including PC kills the original purpose of the analogy though as that was just to look at the consoles alone.
Also there are differences and there are very clear differences at times between PC and PS360. Devs have gotten good with how the console hardware works first, and second they have gotten good at faking things by knowing what can't work. So now when we're seeing the first iterations of real graphically next-gen games, some are having a tough time telling the difference because of how good devs are in general at masking the weaknesses of the console versions.
However I have also said the gap between Wii U and the other two next gen consoles will be smaller than the current gap between PS360 and current high end PCs so in essence I agree with you.
Joking, somewhat. I do think when the Wii U is fully utilized we will see some really nice lighting which is probably 90% of the improvement well see next gen IMO.
You are telling something that IMO is a key point to this discussion. The "masking" that developers have created within this years has become very effective so even while the other consoles will be more powerful, in practical terms and for the biggest audience this will not translate in major "OMG!"improvements. To be honest I think very few will sit ten minutes watching at a rock to see if their shadow is real time or baked, including some of those who are right now discussing how the Wii U is underpowered. I think that a pretty word to describe the power under the Wii U is "serviceable" at least for the next 5 years.
Was looking for a place to chime in for a few days now, every time I checked in it seemed like tech talk was going on, and unfortunately I am oblivious to such things...
Anyways! Glad to be a Jr. finally! Quick question. I feel like I always hear that Nintendo has the best water effects and lighting (not sure if true). Did this hold true for the current generation, and can we expect it in the next?
Anyways! Glad to be a Jr. finally! Quick question. I feel like I always hear that Nintendo has the best water effects and lighting (not sure if true). Did this hold true for the current generation, and can we expect it in the next?
nordique
Member
We won't see it for a while, but I'm willing to bet Retro Studios will have a looker, even if its not a "realistic" or "mature" style game
For the games we know of, my vote goes to Pikmin 3. Not everyone will agree with that, but I think its the most beautiful game on the Wii U, overall.
Assassins Creed III, Aliens, Rayman and P-100 all look terrific as well (in a complete package type of way) though the art styles really help.
bgassassin
Member
This is NeoGAF (and the Internet). We'll be inundated with people nitpicking all the differences between the PS4/Xbox 3 version of a game vs the Wii U version while still not seeing any between Wii U and PS360.
JordanN
Banned
Water and lighting effects aren't exactly exclusive to Nintendo so I'm going to have to say no.
Especially not this gen when the Wii was based around a 1999 graphic's set and before that, the Xbox and PC were ahead of GCN technically.
2D graphics reached a point where art and talent became more important than tech. The jumps from generations were huge - Atari to NES to SNES were all huge jumps. SNES to Saturn was still a pretty big jump, though not nearly the same as NES to SNES. Saturn to present day has not been much of a jump at all, Saturn-era tech is in many ways "good enough."
Similarly the jump from PS1 to PS2 was huge. In terms of tech the PS1 didn't even have a z-buffer! PS2 to PS3 brought programmable pipeline etc. PS3 to PS4...I don't see anything equivalent to that.
PS4 is going to be bigger, better and more badass but changes like tessellation are not nearly as fundamental as stuff like a z-buffer or programmable shaders. (Without going off on a tangent I think tessellation is highly overrated)
This gen brought us stuff like bloom, HDR, specular highlights, motion blur, DOF - the next gen is going to bring us all those same things again, only higher quality.
I spent some time the other night reading through information on Samaritan. It's really not that exciting. A post-process fake subsurface scattering effect, Bokeh DOF via canned textures..zzz. I'm not seeing any fundamental shift there.
IMO the next big graphics leap is going to be real-time ray tracing. All the effects today that are faked or done in screen space, including refraction, smoke, SSS, GI, various heat / distance distortions etc - all those things should go from fake to less-faked and get a big boost in quality. Until then it's mostly incremental improvements.
I mean, Unreal Engine 3 looked amazing. Unreal Engine 4...looks pretty cool I guess?
Similarly the jump from PS1 to PS2 was huge. In terms of tech the PS1 didn't even have a z-buffer! PS2 to PS3 brought programmable pipeline etc. PS3 to PS4...I don't see anything equivalent to that.
PS4 is going to be bigger, better and more badass but changes like tessellation are not nearly as fundamental as stuff like a z-buffer or programmable shaders. (Without going off on a tangent I think tessellation is highly overrated)
This gen brought us stuff like bloom, HDR, specular highlights, motion blur, DOF - the next gen is going to bring us all those same things again, only higher quality.
I spent some time the other night reading through information on Samaritan. It's really not that exciting. A post-process fake subsurface scattering effect, Bokeh DOF via canned textures..zzz. I'm not seeing any fundamental shift there.
IMO the next big graphics leap is going to be real-time ray tracing. All the effects today that are faked or done in screen space, including refraction, smoke, SSS, GI, various heat / distance distortions etc - all those things should go from fake to less-faked and get a big boost in quality. Until then it's mostly incremental improvements.
I mean, Unreal Engine 3 looked amazing. Unreal Engine 4...looks pretty cool I guess?
chertipros
Member
This definitely wasn't the case this gen but last gen nintendo games did have some amazing water effects for their time like mario sunshine, wave race, and even the wind waker to an extent.
When my daughter was little she had a toy that sounded just like that. It was a Little People Ferris Wheel. Seriously, it was the exact same laugh.
JordanN
Banned
I disagree.
An often underlooked part about Samaritan was the fact there were individual hairs being rendered in real time.
Most games today don't come anywhere near that. Instead, we see stuff that's either "ribbon" like (ex: think Dead or Alive or Star Ocean 4), chunks of polygons textured over (ex: Uncharted), or just plain fake (bald character or a simple texture).
Edit: There's also shaders although the results aren't as good as the real thing.
- Status