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[sonycowboy]

OK.

The next-gen arguments are getting into full swing and we're hearing people champion each developers sequels as "being absolutely" incredible for the next generation.

Everybody's all excited about:
----------------------------------------
Halo 3
Madden 2006/2007
GTA Next
Gran Turismo 5
Mario Next
Zelda Next
Final Fantasy XIII
Mistwalker game
etc, etc.

However, where are the developers going to be putting those development dollars to use? If this generation is any guide, it's going to go 90% into the graphics end to give it a new fresh coat of paint. And the remaining time will be spent to put loads and loads of content in.

Is this enough for you?

I think most games are currently restricted not by graphics, but by their design. Madden hasn't really changed all that much in 10 years, Halo 2 isn't much different from Halo 1, GTA:SA is certainly much bigger than GTA 3 and has more diversity, but at it's heart it's the same game and parts of it are broken.

Will developers actually take the time to redesign the elements that are broken, or even more, to truly take advantage of the CPU capability, storage space, advanced middleware tools that will be available to them, to truly have a game worthy of the "next-gen" moniker?

It seems to be it's looking to be endless sequels with a new coat of paint and a killer marketing budget.

 

[Deg]

Are you turning into a Nintendo fan?

 

[Folder]

All developers want to inovate.
It's bean-counting publishers that won't.
Sometimes for better, usually not.

 

[Redbeard]

How did Mistwalker's games find their way into your list?

 

[sonycowboy]

All developers want to inovate.
It's bean-counting publishers that won't.
Sometimes for better, usually not.

I agree. We know all about the publisher sequel checklist:

1) Better grahics - check
2) More cars/fighters/weapons - check
3) Hard edge - check
4) Licensed music - check
5) Throwaway "Innovative" feature that doesn't actually do anything for the gameplay, but looks good for marketing - check

 

[Mr Nash]

The sooner there is a well-established system of downloading games so that developers can distribute their games without having to deal with a publisher to get the game on store shelves, the sooner we'll see innovation. Publishers are more worried about how profitable a game is than whether or not it brings anything new to the table, which seems kinda silly since it will only stagnate the market in the long run, hurting their bottomline anyway.

 

[Blimblim]

How did Mistwalker's games find their way into your list?

I was wondering about this too. Sonycowboy is on roll tonight with trolling the Xbox with everything he can.

 

[SantaC]

It's harder than ever to innovate these days. The leap from 2D to 3D generation is long gone, and I don't know any more dimensions it can be done in unless you support the string theory.

Next-gen should be very interesting to see what kind of ideas developers can come up with that hasn't been implemented in the past.

 

[Ranger X]

The sooner there is a well-established system of downloading games so that developers can distribute their games without having to deal with a publisher to get the game on store shelves, the sooner we'll see innovation. Publishers are more worried about how profitable a game is than whether or not it brings anything new to the table, which seems kinda silly since it will only stagnate the market in the long run, hurting their bottomline anyway.

If it's the devellopers themselve that make the money, they will want to make more money just as the publishers. Money itself is the problem and we can't do anything about. Don't even begin to think about humans becoming more resonnable - they are cowards.

 

[Monk]

The problem is that casual gamers suck. *points to RE4 sales*

 

[android]

I think most games are currently restricted not by graphics, but by their design. Madden hasn't really changed all that much in 10 years, Halo 2 isn't much different from Halo 1, GTA:SA is certainly much bigger than GTA 3 and has more diversity, but at it's heart it's the same game and parts of it are broken.

I notice you forget to include Gran Turismo and Final Fantasy here which haven't changed at all beside better graphics. Guess theres to much Sony in these.

 

[rastex]

Well, looking back on PS->PS2 generation we've seen quite a few new blockbuster franchises. Sony first parties are responsible for a pretty big number of them, Capcom has reinvented RE, and introduced new franchises such as DMC and Onimusha, Sega has released a ton of new things (on DC and on other consoles), then we have the awesome RPGs from Bioware.

People are wrong in expecting a fundamental shift in the way games are played, because if there was one they wouldn't be games anymore, or at least games that we've known for the past 30 years. I mean, can people truly not see the innovation in the jump from Halo->Halo 2? Sure the core gameplay is the same, but that's what makes it Halo, if you want different core gameplay look to Ghost Recon, or Rainbow Six, or Socom or whatever, that's why there are different franchises to give variation to different types of games.


Next gen will see great refinements and polish to established genres with a couple of new genres being created. Franchises will be born and die, and others will keep on trucking.
People who proclaim lack of innovation are simply portraying their own lack of understanding of games.

 

[Mr Nash]

It's harder than ever to innovate these days. The leap from 2D to 3D generation is long gone, and I don't know any more dimensions it can be done in unless you support the string theory.

Next-gen should be very interesting to see what kind of ideas developers can come up with that hasn't been implemented in the past.

It's not a matter of what you're seeing that lacks innovation, it's that there isn't much effort out there to innovate what players are doing that is the problem. Once one franchise becomes popular, we see a bunch of "me too" games hit the market that do more or less the same thing (despite what the PR spin doctors would like us to believe). Publishers are by and large only concerned with exploiting "winning formulas", with very few actually trying to bring something new to the table. Many developers complain that when they want to pitch a new game to a publisher these days, they have to explain how the title is similar to something that is popular and already on the market, as opposed to simply explaining what their own game is all about. This further shows how publishers are not concerned with innovation, but instead want to milk what is already selling well.

If it's the devellopers themselve that make the money, they will want to make more money just as the publishers. Money itself is the problem and we can't do anything about. Don't even begin to think about humans becoming more resonnable - they are cowards.

I'm sure there will be plenty out to make a fast buck, but leaving more money in the developers' hands in the very least opens the door to their being more of a well-funded indie scene. A lot of companies may still make legions of sequels, but even if a few make something new and different, and can afford to do so since they keep a larger chunk of the profits, that would be a huge step forward for games.

 

[Monk]

People who proclaim lack of innovation are simply portraying their own lack of understanding of games.

Thats complete and utter crap. The problem with innovation is that no one buys innovative games anymore. People just want more of the same trash they play all the time with better graphics.

The real irony is when a truly nnovative game comes out and people but it because it offers something new and every addon and sequel after that do nothing inventive at all. *points to The Sims*

The biggest crime of this gen is that Dragon Quarter bombed hard.

 

[Jotaro]

The biggest crime of this gen is that The Sims succeeded too much.

Fixed.

 

[Blimblim]

Fixed.

Yes and no. As much as I disliked The Sims as a game it was still quite innovative. Of course the incredible milking of the franchise is another story. Also one positive effect of The Sims is that it introduced a lot people (mostly girls) to videogames. I know quite a few friends who never touched a game before this one, and are now hooked to games like World of Warcraft.

 

[Borys]

I was wondering about this too. Sonycowboy is on roll tonight with trolling the Xbox with everything he can.

Since when bad Xbox news = trolling? (Wedbush thread?)
Take those X-glassess off for a moment, blimblim.

Nintendo tried to innovate with Wind Waker (new graphics style, new gameplay mechanics - water + wind) and Super Mario (again water).

Sadly, it did them more bad than good

 

[sonycowboy]

I was wondering about this too. Sonycowboy is on roll tonight with trolling the Xbox with everything he can.

I notice you forget to include Gran Turismo and Final Fantasy here which haven't changed at all beside better graphics. Guess theres to much Sony in these.

Way to completely miss the point of the topic. Congradulations. My first list was just of highly anticipated games. Then I talked about how sequels in general were being churned out.

I was making absolutely no comment at all regarding the Mist Walker game or it's quality, which I'm quite sure will be excellent. I also believe that Final Fantasy and GT are definite cantidates in the lack of innovation talk.

Perhaps both of you can drop you're preconceptions of what my intent was and actually read the thread. It was solely regarding the hope that this generation we would see developers be able to fully reexplore thier franchises and perhaps make new ones. It's true of ALL developer across ALL systems.

 

[Andrew2]

I'll say this,but I'm glad Sony and Nintendo would be providing a means for developers to further innovate thier games in new ways with new consoles. Yamauchi I know have talked about incorporating the Eye Toy technology into Gran Turismo 5 and because of that I see something "new" coming from Gran Turismo.


btw,this where Yamauchi talks about the eye toy and Gran Turismo 5(last two paragraphs)

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/564/564826p1.html

 

[Blimblim]

I was making absolutely no comment at all regarding the Mist Walker game or it's quality, which I'm quite sure will be excellent. I also believe that Final Fantasy and GT are definite cantidates in the lack of innovation talk.

Well, you put Mistwalker in the middle of sequels of succesful games. That is, you put games from a known game producer who pretty much will start everything from scratch in the middle of games that just *can't* innovate too much without taking the risk to alienate (is that a word ?) the fans.
Sorry, but coming from you this just was highly suspicious.

 

[Jotaro]

Yes and no. As much as I disliked The Sims as a game it was still quite innovative. Of course the incredible milking of the franchise is another story. Also one positive effect of The Sims is that it introduced a lot people (mostly girls) to videogames. I know quite a few friends who never touched a game before this one, and are now hooked to games like World of Warcraft.

I liked the Sims, it was fucking innovative, I was so happy when I saw the game for the first time in PC Gamer. I tought: Will Wright is gonna be on the mark this time, this game is going to change the industry forever. In the same mag there was Sim Mars. I wonder why it got canned? I know alot of Maxis titles really stinked, but this one looked really good, I guess Sims was the milk cow and that other cow got killed. Then I played the game, I tought: Will has got it, I was right. I saw the sales, they were incredible! I was happy, finally, some truly innovative games succeed. I continued to be happy, but less and less as months went by. And then, the gazillion expansions. And then, the copycats. I remember my grandmother wanting to play this game, who thinks Solitaire is sometimes too rough. So yes, it did appeal to a lot of females, and that's a good thing. In a sense.

I remember my sister being glued to her PC to play the game still, I had great games, I would be the sole one to play them. She still has the old PC, and STILL plays the same goddamn game. Girls and The Sims stick like glue! So then, a demographic target was them. It screwed up everything. As there was no place in my sister's time to play all the other great videogames (I tought it woud be a good time to introduce her to gaming, silly me), there was no place in the center stage for other PC Games. I remember seeing month after month the top 10 filled with the sims, the repackaging, and the expansion packs. All those great games gathered dust, I was infuriated, literally.


I think people who became interested in videogames because of the Sims, are not really gamers who will do much good to our industry. I cannot even ponder the damages done to the adventure genre.

It's fun you mention Worlds of Warcraft, because MMORPGs are yet another videogame genre I loathe. Mostly each new one (Worlds of Warcraft I have not played, it seems better than the others) is becoming crappier and less innovative. It's amazing not a single one is as thrilling, as deep, as tight of a community as Ultima Online, when it was maintained by Origin. But they continue, you have to pay every month, so I guess it's easier to get continous profits from your game. I also hate paying for a videogame. Once I have bought it, I consider it mine. And if the game service shuts down, how am I going to play Need for Speed online?

I am getting fucking tired of series turning into MMORPGs. Shenmue online, Heroes of Might and Magic online, Phantasy Star Online, The Sims Online (this one I am happy it bombed, girls were too afraid to give out their credit card, or did they had any? I remember like, 12% of the people who bought the game never activated their free account.) So many great franchises, based on innovative concepts, now a former shelf of that they used to be, because MMORPGs are safer in a financial way.

 

[Blimblim]

I mainly agree with you, but I do not think The Sims killed the PC market. It just created another market, which incidently was bigger than the older PC market. That's why you would see only The Sims and expansions on top of the charts. If the PC market is in decline it's mostly because it's become a very closed market very only 3 (4 if you count the sims) genres actually selling really well, FPS, RTS and MMORPG. The day these 3 genres are actually as playable on a console as on a PC (not gonna happen in the next few years I guess), the PC market may as well be dead.

 

[Jotaro]

I mainly agree with you, but I do not think The Sims killed the PC market. It just created another market, which incidently was bigger than the older PC market. That's why you would see only The Sims and expansions on top of the charts. If the PC market is in decline it's mostly because it's become a very closed market very only 3 (4 if you count the sims) genres actually selling really well, FPS, RTS and MMORPG. The day these 3 genres are actually as playable on a console as on a PC (not gonna happen in the next few years I guess), the PC market may as well be dead.

Well Blimblim, I did not stated that it killed the PC market. I know my post was heavily PC Games-oriented, and I did not even meant the PC game market, but the whole market, it got the industry stale. The PC games market also had to take into account shovelware cheap games, next-generation consoles, high costs of hardware versus the graphics' quality on the consoles, etc etc ad nauseam.

The three genres you mentioned I really hate them. FPSes, most are not worth crap. MMORPG, I already stated what I tought. But I got sick and tired of RTSes, frankly to me Starcraft put a bar that no one else could ever top, not even Blizzard. Nowadays, if I'd want to have fun with an RTS, I'd stick with something simple and funny like Warcraft 2, and not one of the gazillion copycats. If only EA had not killed Westwood. I find this analogy quite amusing in a sense, because Command and Conquer games, while retaining their gameplay, lost their souls with no Westwood, no interesting characters, no FMVs with real actors, no Kane.

Do people only really want to be able to click or tap a button as often and quickly as possible, or to blow up things in games? I want great games where it's not just skills that are involved.

FPS because of the mouse, I think it's always going to be better on a PC than on a console. Same for RTS. And considering what happens to this genre, not to mention to adventure gaming. I'm not quite sure I want console makers to find a chimeric controller that will make them as much fun as on a PC.

 

[Odnetnin]

well, they don't have to innovate imo. Just as long as the game plays fine and doesn't feel stale. A lot of existing genres work just fine as they are. There's only so much you can do. The only game I've played in ages which feels brand spanking new is RE4 but I expect that to change as it gets sequels, me too clones. RE4 really isn't even that innovative but its the polish and the way it was put together that makes it great. That said, a lot of the games we play now are sequels as SONYCOWBOY stated but they're also mostly importantly, fun.

That said, innovation isn't a bad thing; I'm just not sure if there's a rampant need to innovate. (that's my perception on nIntendo's mistake; I like playing games just as they are... its not the input method, its the experience).

And I wouldn't say the sims killed the PC market. It brought in female gamers + is accessible to all because of its subject matter. I think its the other titles that killed it. Games that are clones.. me too me too.. FPS.. MMRPG. Only the devout gamer would get into these. Also the specs needed for titles like HL2 + FC + Doom3, means that not everyone will play them. They also don't appeal to as wide a demographic

 

[Gaia Theory]

Stereo video. It's coming.

 

[android]

Way to completely miss the point of the topic. Congradulations. My first list was just of highly anticipated games. Then I talked about how sequels in general were being churned out.

I was making absolutely no comment at all regarding the Mist Walker game or it's quality, which I'm quite sure will be excellent. I also believe that Final Fantasy and GT are definite cantidates in the lack of innovation talk.

Perhaps both of you can drop you're preconceptions of what my intent was and actually read the thread. It was solely regarding the hope that this generation we would see developers be able to fully reexplore thier franchises and perhaps make new ones. It's true of ALL developer across ALL systems.

Everything you type seems to be a troll about the other two systems so I get your meaning quite clearly. Sony is as guilty as everyone else of not pushing the genre foward, but someone like sonycowboy isn't expected to admit that I guess. I didn't say Mistwalker, but you sure mentioned how Halo 2 isn't much different from 1, without saying GT 1 is the same as 2 and as 3.

 

[Kon Tiki]

How did Mistwalker's games find their way into your list?

Everybody's all excited about:
----------------------------------------
Halo 3
Madden 2006/2007
GTA Next
Gran Turismo 5
Mario Next
Zelda Next
Final Fantasy XIII
Mistwalker game

 

[rastex]

Thats complete and utter crap. The problem with innovation is that no one buys innovative games anymore. People just want more of the same trash they play all the time with better graphics.

All those games I mentioned in my original post are all brand new, fresh, innovative franchises that have sold a butt-load of copies. Sorry, but just because the games YOU like don't sell well just means exactly that.

 

[Monk]

All those games I mentioned in my original post are all brand new, fresh, innovative franchises that have sold a butt-load of copies.

All those games are "original" not "innovative". There is a big difference. RE4 is seen as innovative because it took a whole new direction to the cramped gameplay of the series.


EDIT: I thake the RE4 comment back, while it was made a huge impact, they did innovate with the subtlies.

 

[Redbeard]

Everybody's all excited about:
----------------------------------------
Halo 3
Madden 2006/2007
GTA Next
Gran Turismo 5
Mario Next
Zelda Next
Final Fantasy XIII
Mistwalker game

Yes, now read the sentence before and after.

It's not a big deal, I just wondered how a brand new game is relevant to a topic about developers innovating with their franchises, especially when the dev has already talked about how he wants to change the formulas of the past.

 

[Odnetnin]

Everything you type seems to be a troll about the other two systems so I get your meaning quite clearly. Sony is as guilty as everyone else of not pushing the genre foward, but someone like sonycowboy isn't expected to admit that I guess. I didn't say Mistwalker, but you sure mentioned how Halo 2 isn't much different from 1, without saying GT 1 is the same as 2 and as 3.

?

With Halo, you can innovate. HL2 and FC has shown that the FPS structure can allow a great diversity of gameplay.. the game just didn't capitalise.

How do you innovate a racer? and a sim one at that? I think the GT line can't be faulted for that because of what it is.

I see you posted earlier that FF hasn't innovated but you do realise each game has a different gameplay system (junction/companion swap in FFX IS innovative for the RPG genre) and FFX + 2 had no world map. Not exactly innovative (but I'd argue the no world map thing for FFX +2 is).

There are only so many ways to innovate. If you were to criticise, you should say what you think is the way forward. Its not like we don't have the best brains out there working on games for us.

Why don't we try to come up with a list of innovative games we've played?


um....



Katamari

I'd say the DS games that use touch.



and Monk. I don't think people think RE4 is innovative.

 

[Kon Tiki]

Yes, now read the sentence before and after.

It's not a big deal, I just wondered how a brand new game is relevant to a topic about developers innovating with their franchises, especially when the dev has already talked about how he wants to change the formulas of the past.

Xbots have called Sakaguchi the Miyamoto of RPGs, it is not like you do know his work. Will his next RPG being innovative compared to his past work?

Then entry makes complete sense to me.

 

[Father_Brain]

"Innovation" is relative. Neither RE4 nor FFXII introduce incredible new ideas that have never been seen in a game before, but they both toss aside many of the series' conventions.

 

[Redbeard]

Xbots have called Sakaguchi the Miyamoto of RPGs, it is not like you do know his work. Will his next RPG being innovative compared to his past work?

Then entry makes complete sense to me.

Q: You have a strong image as a storyteller. Are there any particular rules of thumb or reflections on RPGs that you're using to guide you?

Sakaguchi: Right, well, with each new generation of games my thoughts have changed, so... At the moment, I feel that the sensation of walking among amazing visuals - that's already been done. But however pretty a game's graphics may be, if they can't be touched they're just decorations in the end. So I'm thinking I want to aim for a game world with lots of things you can seamlessly interact with in various ways, for the sense of a world where everything can be touched. Also, as I said before I want to get away from coming-of-age stories, and create comical or tragic scenes unlike any seen in games before. I'm trying to make something that will feel fresh, and explores the possibilities of interactivity.

There's your answer.

 

[Gattsu25]

While it may not be a franchise yet, I hear that God of War has an extremely innovative mini-game unlike any in a commercial console game before...that GoW thread mentions it

 

[Monk]

and Monk. I don't think people think RE4 is innovative.

Rastex called his entire list innovative.


Anyway, I am just saying that there is a big difference between being "original" and "innovative". Sadly most of the innovative games I have played have bombed or very little people know of it. I admit I mainly play RPG games, but there have been some games that blew me away by the innovation.

Evil Islands
Gothic 2
Breath of Fire V

 

[Kon Tiki]

There's your answer.

I did not ask the question. Just clarifying SonyCowbot's question.

 

[Foobar]

Everybody's all excited about:
----------------------------------------
Halo 3
Madden 2006/2007
GTA Next
Gran Turismo 5
Mario Next
Zelda Next
Final Fantasy XIII
Mistwalker game
etc, etc.

Madden and GT5 can only grow in small ways, it seems. Just look at the Madden 2005 and GT4, they're not that much different that what came before. But ONLINE is where these games should be growing. Fantasy Football leagues, arcade modes, AI player profiles and downloadable ghosts... oh wait, Sega and Bizzare Creations already did all that. EA, Sony, you're falling behind.

GTA, Mario, Halo, Zelda - its risky to take the formula that made these games great and change it. The freeform play of GTA, the platforming of Mario and the exploration and puzzle solving of Zelda are things you can't really screw around with and change. What's needed here is to build on and expand the existing gameplay mechanics. Some of these games can enter new time periods or art styles, but its hard for people to accept any artistic changes to a game like Halo, especially given how picky they were when it came to Zelda.

Final Fantasy has always had a new cast of characters, new world, new story, the art direction changes every few installments, how stats are improved and managed is always changed, new minigames and gameplay aspects. FFXII is totally different from your average single-player FF game, FFX tossed out levelling, FFX-2 was like FFVI with ADD. The most "traditional" FFs of recent memory are FFIX and FFXI in terms of classic elements.

What Mistwalker has to do with any of this, I don't know. New company headed by Sakaguchi, who created Final Fantasy and they're working on two RPGs for Xbox, a horror game for PS2 and an SRPG for Nintendo DS. We don't really know anything about these games or what they'll have in common with what the teams at Mistwalker have done before. But the mere fact that Sakaguchi is not just relegated to a producer role is exciting to know.

 

[Phoenix]

Innovation is a VERY loaded term. The only way to reply to this is innovate HOW? What would you consider an innovation in game design?

I find it very odd that people even bring up games like Madden and then say that they aren't innovative. Its football - its a sport that doesn't really change much so the only places where you CAN innovate are in the presentation. Established franchises rarely make large changes, because people like the franchise the way it is. In fact one way to kill a franchise is to make substantial changes to it so that it is no longer familiar. If you have a popular franchise pulling down millions of units per SKU - change is something to avoid as you don't want to lose your audience. (Not to mention that sometimes there is no innovation is that you're already doing it the best way)

So lets leave aside established franchises 'taking significant chances' or static domains (like sports) having significant changes because that's not realistic (to the extent you're saying Madden has been the same for 10 years). That leaves us with truly unique ideas to the space. The problem with truly 'unique' ideas is that now you're taking a risk with 10s of millions of dollars as to whether or not anyone will be interested in the game. Lets look at one of the more popular 'sleepers' of last year Katamari Damacy. An interesting game idea that sold reasonably well. There was Rez, which however didn't. There were a couple of Mosquito simulators on the Playstation - which sold like nude jim carey posters.

Being innovative is cool, but if you need someone to give you money - you can bet that they will demand you still to some well defined franchises/genres/designs so they can best determine how to target and sell through to that market. When you're really out there - you can lose you marketing department and become a generic 'sleeper' title and your parent company/investor will take a several million dollar bath.

 

[nathkenn]

publishers are also going to want the games to come out in the same amount of time which really sucks for next gen. overtime here we come!

 

[MoxManiac]

Heroes of Might and Magic online

What? Please god, tell me this wasn't announced. Part 4 was bad enough!!

 

[Jotaro]

What? Please god, tell me this wasn't announced. Part 4 was bad enough!!

Sorry. For the asian market target demography, if I recall correctly.

 

[FeedMeAStrayCat]

Hasn't Nintendo done enough innovation already with the Mario Party series? There's enough innovation there to last a lifetime..

 

[Andrew2]

In fact one way to kill a franchise is to make substantial changes to it so that it is no longer familiar.

Not true and Champions of Norrath is a good exsample what good can come out of change.

Now I know there's alot EverQuest fanboys out there would simipily frown on Champions of Norrath saying SOE slapped the "EverQuest" name onto the game to garner sales from console gamers,but I don't think its so. If you ask me, Champions of Norrath was a blessing to this EQ fan as it gave me a "new way" at experiencing a franchise I like rather than regulating it to just a MMORPG. The same can be said about the RTS Lords of EveQuest. If anything,I would say SOE is on a roll and I hope they continue exploiting EverQuest in this sense. This is also my exact feeling towards Baldurs Gate: Dark Alliance;I'm glad Interplay took the chance of re-renvisiong Baldurs Gate in another style,cause it kept the franchise fresh with me and gave me a new experience.

Speaking of further exploitation of EverQuest,I personally think it would be awesome if SOE tapped BioWare for a KOTOR-like EverQuest RPG.

 

[Gazunta]

TY 3 will feature BOOBIES AND GUNS

How's THAT for innovative, innovation fans?

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

You can't innovate in something that already has a set guidelines for rules and parameters. Sports are a main thing. Only thing you can constantly improve upon is the realism factor

 

[boutrosinit]

All developers want to inovate.
It's bean-counting publishers that won't.
Sometimes for better, usually not.

A lot of truth in this sentence. Don't expect to see anymore innovation on current gen machines. No one's signing shit unless it's attached to a licence or dirt fucking cheap.

 

[Do The Mario]

Bioware are innovating like it’s 1979.

 

[boutrosinit]

Bioware got the chance to innovate with one of the world's biggest licenses and a licensor that's starting to understand that having one of the world's most important licenses is all well and good, but strapping well-designed games to it brings forth more cash than making a turkey. Now Bioware has a pile of 'fuck you' cash and the balls to use it wisely. Very few companies are in this position.

 

[Rahul]

But the mere fact that Sakaguchi is not just relegated to a producer role is exciting to know.

Actually, yes he is. His role on the Xbox 2 RPGs is of "executive producer", with Mistwalker acting as the design company (eg. basic design and then consultancy). Dunno about the DS and PS2(?) games, but I'd guess the same there.