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Will PS4 Pro actually be worth it without a 4K TV?

It will be worth it in 1080p too, the Pro is not only for 4k tv owners.

Off the top of my head these games have confirmed 1080p specific modes:

Rise of the Tomb Raider
The Witness
Mass Effect Andromeda
Paragon

Probably more that I'm forgetting. Bottom line is that devs are catering to both 4k and 1080p owners. Even if a game only renders internally above 1080p, then that will give you automatic downsampling benefits.
 
For the people saying it will provide clean IQ and better AA, etc., I have a question I can't seem to find an answer to.

The majority of the (AAA) 4K content will be upscaled, right? Not native? If so, how can upscaled 4K provide better IQ? Won't it be exactly the same, meaning that if you upscale from 1080p to 4K and then downsample from 4K to 1080p, wouldn't you end up with exactly the same thing?

Not talking about native 4K of course, just upscaled (which to my understanding was the majority of the PS4 Pro content).
 
Inuhanyou said:
I was asking seriously OP, what do you want from the device, and what are you expecting that you are concerned about?
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Better image quality and more stable framerates would be nice. But that has to be like the bare minimum for expectations, right?
I guess I just need to see some screens or footage of supported games running in 1080 on the Pro. But I guess we won;t know until it's released. That's unfortunate.

Sorry for the useless thread.
 
0racle said:
Are you saying every game is 1080p down sampled even without patches ?
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as far as i'm aware every game going forward needs to have a pro-mode (see: a 4k mode) you would assume, if the dev hasn't made any additional benefits for 1080p gamers, then it would simply take that 4K version, and down sample for cleaner IQ? i'd be shocked if it didn't at least do that by default. anything else though (better framerates, textures, assets etc will need specific modes (see tomb raider)
 
Dee Dah Dave said:
The main push will be for '4K', same as Microsoft. You will get some nice down-sampling I suppose to improve image quality, so it wouldn't be all to waste.

I can't see too many devs going full on though in optimising for 3 modes. '4K' Pro, 1080p Pro and OG PS4. I think the 'middle' option will be largely ignored.

Hell most games are hardly well optimised right now. Expecting them to get it right for basically 3 hardware specs is wishful thinking IMO.
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See, I think the opposite. We are all graphic whores in this day and age so games will be shown in their best possible light. Right now not many people own 4k TVs with HDR so consider the following;

4k and HDR are impossible to market to non 4k HDR TV owners. Improved image quality and graphical features can be shown off very easily. This is what the PS4 pro will need to do and I feel that is what will happen. This will force MANY people to upgrade. Why cater to the 5% of the 4k TV owners vs 95% 1080p owners? Resolution is all the pro has going for it in that case since HDR is available in the base ps4.
 
Movalpolos said:
Better image quality and more stable framerates would be nice. But that has to be like the bare minimum for expectations, right?
I guess I just need to see some screens or footage of supported games running in 1080 on the Pro.
Click to expand...

You are getting both of those then. I posted some ps4 pro screens downscaled to 1080p in the last page which have much better image quality than their ps4 versions.
 
Regginator said:
For the people saying it will provide clean IQ and better AA, etc., I have a question I can't seem to find an answer to.

The majority of the (AAA) 4K content will be upscaled, right? Not native? If so, how can upscaled 4K provide better IQ? Won't it be exactly the same, meaning that if you upscale from 1080p to 4K and then downsample from 4K to 1080p, wouldn't you end up with exactly the same thing?

Not talking about native 4K of course, just upscaled (which to my understanding was the majority of the PS4 Pro content).
Click to expand...

Most are not native 4k, but upscaled from a resolution close to it. It's not just upscaled from 1080, it's from a higher resolution.
 
Regginator said:
For the people saying it will provide clean IQ and better AA, etc., I have a question I can't seem to find an answer to.

The majority of the (AAA) 4K content will be upscaled, right? Not native? If so, how can upscaled 4K provide better IQ? Won't it be exactly the same, meaning that if you upscale from 1080p to 4K and then downsample from 4K to 1080p, wouldn't you end up with exactly the same thing?

Not talking about native 4K of course, just upscaled (which to my understanding was the majority of the PS4 Pro content).
Click to expand...

The upscaling to 4k is from a resolution way above 1080 in the games we know details about.
 
BigTnaples said:
Yes. Even with pure downsampling, the effect on IQ is tremendous. Plus many games are adding additional features for 1080p.
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Yeah, I'd go as far as to say the benefits are probably higher for 1080p, especially if more devs follow Tomb Raider's example and add additional effects and/or higher frame rates for 1080p.
 
Regginator said:
For the people saying it will provide clean IQ and better AA, etc., I have a question I can't seem to find an answer to.

The majority of the (AAA) 4K content will be upscaled, right? Not native? If so, how can upscaled 4K provide better IQ? Won't it be exactly the same, meaning that if you upscale from 1080p to 4K and then downsample from 4K to 1080p, wouldn't you end up with exactly the same thing?

Not talking about native 4K of course, just upscaled (which to my understanding was the majority of the PS4 Pro content).
Click to expand...

they're not upscaling from 1080p. they're upscalling from. for instance 1800x3200. so, that non-native 4k render can still be downsampled to 1080p for a good IQ boost
 
Regginator said:
For the people saying it will provide clean IQ and better AA, etc., I have a question I can't seem to find an answer to.

The majority of the (AAA) 4K content will be upscaled, right? Not native? If so, how can upscaled 4K provide better IQ? Won't it be exactly the same, meaning that if you upscale from 1080p to 4K and then downsample from 4K to 1080p, wouldn't you end up with exactly the same thing?

Not talking about native 4K of course, just upscaled (which to my understanding was the majority of the PS4 Pro content).
Click to expand...

the native resolution for upscaled 4K games, will be way above 1080p

also beaten lol
 
bombshell said:
It will be worth it in 1080p too, the Pro is not only for 4k tv owners.

Off the top of my head these games have confirmed 1080p specific modes:

Rise of the Tomb Raider
The Witness
Mass Effect Andromeda
Paragon

Probably more that I'm forgetting. Bottom line is that devs are catering to both 4k and 1080p owners. Even if a game only renders internally above 1080p, then that will give you automatic downsampling benefits.
Click to expand...

For Honor as well, based on the reveal.
 
Cerbero said:
this not at all the same thing actually, if a game doesn't have Pro support (The Witcher 3 for example) it will run exactly like on the OG PS4, frame rate issues included, if it does have a Pro mode with checkerboard you will get a image composed by two 1080p framebuffers, so 2X SSAA, if it also has a specific mode for 1080p displays with higher settings you will have that
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Kinyou said:
Just saying that it's not quite comparable to a pc upgrade where the advantages are more guaranteed.
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The premise is getting a 4K TV right? You know, to reap the "benefits" of the PS4 Pro. What's the point of discussing unpatched games when we're working on the premise that the PS4 Pro is being taken advantage of?
 
Do all games get any better of pro or is just the games announced specifically. None of the games announced interest me so pro is a skip right now.
 
Wishmaster92 said:
You are getting both of those then. I posted some ps4 pro screens downscaled to 1080p in the last page which have much better image quality than their ps4 versions.
Click to expand...

Ahhh yeah just saw those, sorry I just caught em. Looks really good, I just hope that will be the actual quality on release.
 
Movalpolos said:
Better image quality and more stable framerates would be nice. But that has to be like the bare minimum for expectations, right?
I guess I just need to see some screens or footage of supported games running in 1080 on the Pro. But I guess we won;t know until it's released. That's unfortunate.

Sorry for the useless thread.
Click to expand...

On pro supported titles, you will see significantly better visuals on a 1080p screen, and better FPS regardless of what devs do.

If they support checkerboard rendering, the game's base internal res will be downsampled to your screen. if the game supports a 1080p enhanced mode, you will obviously benefit with better visuals. if the game is native 4K, you will see major downsampling benefits.

Understand now?
 
I will buy the PS4 pro because of below points. I will be gaming only in 1080p at my Panasonic VT60 50" plasma TV:

- More stable FPS with fewer dips (in selected games)
- Improved image quality (in selected games)
- Larger drive (1TB, as I currently has the launch 500 GB version)
- Hopefully a quieter machine compared to my launch unit
- Hopefully running cooler and therefore more quiet when down-clocked to run in "normal PS4 mode"

Even though above may only be minor improvements in FPS and image quality it is still worth the upgrade for me.

You will have to decide for yourself what is important to you. We are not all equal and some dosent care about a few extra fps here and there. For me, I enjoy games much better if they have a stable FPS therefore this upgrade will be crucial for me.
 
Frostman said:
It varies across the dev teams. I think the most common seems to be 1800, but DE:MD I think is using 2160? Not 100% on that though.
Click to expand...

Deus ex is using dynamic resolution in addition to checkerboard rendering. They start at 1800p with checkerboarding, but depending on the scene, the game will scale to native 4K.
 
Inuhanyou said:
I feel like i've said it like a billion times already, people can't be doing this without knowing..

It depends on what you want from the machine OP, just like any other console.

What do you expect from it and what are you worried is the reality?
Click to expand...

I'm not the OP, but I fear that one or two years from now PS4 Pro will be the baseline for first and second party games with vanilla PS4 owners getting watered down versions of the games. They may speak of their shared ecosystem where no one gets left behind now, but that's PR talk because they just released the Slim and want to sell that too. I expect the same thing from MS when Scorpio rolls around btw.
 
Inuhanyou said:
On pro supported titles, you will see significantly better visuals on a 1080p screen, and better FPS regardless of what devs do.

If they support checkerboard rendering, the game's base internal res will be downsampled to your screen. if the game supports a 1080p enhanced mode, you will obviously benefit with better visuals. if the game is native 4K, you will see major downsampling benefits.

Understand now?
Click to expand...

Yes, that makes sense. Thank you for taking the time to explain.
 
AALLx said:
The premise is getting a 4K TV right? You know, to reap the "benefits" of the PS4 Pro. What's the point of discussing unpatched games when we're working on the premise that the PS4 Pro is being taken advantage of?
Click to expand...

The premise in this topic is without a 4K TV, also you compared to a pc gpu upgrade, wich is not the way this thing works.
 
PSVR is the only reason I have it pre-ordered, hopefully it's worth it.

Still I'm looking forward to Horizon for example, because I think the experience will be a lot crisper on PS4 Pro compared to the OG one. Even when you don't have a 4k tv.
 
I think yes and if you consider that more graphical effects will be available in 1080p than in 4k mode, it might even happen than in some games some people with a 4K TV might opt for the other mode.
 
OrochiJR said:
I'm not the OP, but I fear that one or two years from now PS4 Pro will be the baseline for first and second party games with vanilla PS4 owners getting watered down versions of the games. They may speak of their shared ecosystem where no one gets left behind now, but that's PR talk because they just released the Slim and want to sell that too. I expect the same thing from MS when Scorpio rolls around btw.
Click to expand...

There's no point in de-prioritizing the base hardware of 40 million.

The fact that they are releasing the slim shows that they are NOT abandoning the original PS4, not the other way around.

The fact of the matter is, PS4 is PS4. Pro is a PS4 and will never be the lead platform for anything.

You don't have to worry.
 
The answer is currently nebulous. We really won't know for sure until the console hits and games are tested. Digital Foundry save us all!

Preorders are readily available still so I am not in day one. I want to see actual reports for 1080p and PSVR users before I upgrade. For example if only 1-2 games support 1080p enhanced modes and I don't care for those games I don't see the point of upgrading right away.

For PSVR the only game confirmed to be enhanced for PS4Pro is Eagle Flight.
 
I really hope so because I do plan on getting a PS4 Pro but not a new 4K TV, I just don't watch much TV ( maybe couple hours a week) so it's definitely not worth upgrading to me since I think most games look pretty good now on my 1080p TV.
Still waiting to see how this plays out.....
 
Doesn't seem like they'll be doing much work beyond cleaner IQ and more stable 30fps, so if you're not very sensitive to those, i don't think so.

I am though, so i'd probably get it either way.
 
Cerbero said:
The premise in this topic is without a 4K TV, also you compared to a pc gpu upgrade, wich is not the way this thing works.
Click to expand...

Okay, fine, it's "without" a 4K TV, the point still stands that the thread is about reaping the benefits of a PS4 Pro, if the game in question is Pro enabled (there's no point in mentioning the worthiness of the PS4 Pro if this is not the premise...).

It's literally a PS4 with a faster GPU. That is exactly how this thing works. Rendering techniques that you are mentioning are benefits of having a faster GPU. Higher resolution, multi-sampling, higher framerates. What exactly are you arguing?
 
DrunkShogun said:
Do all games get any better of pro or is just the games announced specifically. None of the games announced interest me so pro is a skip right now.
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well all games from October and many previous games. We will know exact details when Pro comes out and we try it out... but at minimum downsampling alone will be huge boost to overall IQ.

For instance in GT Sport, it will likely fix that edge aliasing issues racing games have had forever.
 
I'm torn. One the one hand my og ps4 has that lovable quirk of spitting out discs so if I plan on staying ps4 then getting a new one might be of benefit. I am not planning on buying a 4K hdr TV though. Not soon anyway. If it was crystal clear that any and all ps4 games ran better on pro in 1080p then I would do it but having it be up to devs - I don't know. Probably be best to wait until I need a new TV first and then decide.
 
This depends from person to person but for me i don't think the differences will be enough to justify paying another 400 euros for Pro. I'd prefer to wait for PS5 instead.
 
SJRB said:
Downsampling and [big] improvements for PSVR are reasons for me to get one.
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Xdldl.gif
 
Clear said:
If I didn't own a PS4 already, I'd consider the Pro to be a no-brainer simply on the grounds that its more future proof than the OG model, and that you get a lot more potential power and performance (not to mention a bigger HDD) for a relatively small premium.
Click to expand...

Indeed. I have the PS4, but I have it since day one so I feel it's a good investment to get the Pro anyway at this point. Hopefully I can sell the standard to a friend. If not, I'll move it to my bedroom against my wife's will.
 
AALLx said:
Okay, fine, it's "without" a 4K TV, the point still stands that the thread is about reaping the benefits of a PS4 Pro, if the game in question is Pro enabled.

It's literally a PS4 with a faster GPU. That is exactly how this thing works. Rendering techniques that you are mentioning are benefits of having a faster GPU. Higher resolution, multi-sampling, higher framerates. What exactly are you arguing?
Click to expand...

because it's up to the developers, they choose how you benefit from the extra power, higher resolution (so downsampling) or higher detail settings, i also think that higher frame rates is out of the question.
 
Unaha-Closp said:
I'm torn. One the one hand my og ps4 has that lovable quirk of spitting out discs so if I plan on staying ps4 then getting a new one might be of benefit. I am not planning on buying a 4K hdr TV though. Not soon anyway. If it was crystal clear that any and all ps4 games ran better on pro in 1080p then I would do it but having it be up to devs - I don't know. Probably be best to wait until I need a new TV first and then decide.
Click to expand...

any and all games will be better on PS4 Pro... question of how much is same as question of how games look on PS4 OG... some will look better than others, it is competition between devs on to make it look even nicer on Pro, just like they do on OG. Just like there will always be difference between different games on OG, there will be difference between different games on Pro.

I guess even the crappy looking games on PS4 OG will look better on Pro (from October on) so there is that, even more reason to get Pro.
 
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