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Windows 8 Tablets/Laptops/Laplets Cross Shopping Thread of Most Confusing Launch |OT|

Nero3000

Member
More apps when you're using it as a tablet only?

Better user experience. Quick app switching. Useful dashboard with live tiles. Snapping apps like twitter or mail to the left. Quicker browser. OneNote with an active stylus. Superior networking capabilities. Increased speed due to proper support of sata SSDs. Full blown office for when i need to do some number crunching. Viewing documents doesn't bastardize the formatting. CIV V.

EDIT: Woops, i went off the deep end there. When i first read your reply i took it as a flippant remark. On second viewing it clearly wasn't. Sorry about that.
 

maeh2k

Member
Hope someone there'll be a couple of devices that follow Intel's North Cape reference design (see here).

So far OEMs have really let me down with Windows 8. Lenovo hasn't even managed to release the Helix yet.

There are some really nice notebooks like the new Zenbook and the Acer S7, but I'm not sure I want either of those as my next machine. I was hoping for something more hybridy.
 

Milchjon

Member
Better user experience. Quick app switching. Useful dashboard with live tiles. Snapping apps like twitter or mail to the left. Quicker browser. OneNote with an active stylus. Superior networking capabilities. Increased speed due to proper support of sata SSDs. Full blown office for when i need to do some number crunching. Viewing documents doesn't bastardize the formatting. CIV V.

EDIT: Woops, i went off the deep end there. When i first read your reply i took it as a flippant remark. On second viewing it clearly wasn't. Sorry about that.

Haha, no problem :)
 

Blackhead

Redarse
Dell XPS 11: Coming later in the year. Dell's version of the Lenovo Yoga. QUAD HD screen as standard is nice.
The Dell XPS 11 is the first that ticks all the boxes for me:
11.6-inch laptop touts an outstanding 2560 x 1440 resolution

The hinge on the XPS 11 allows the screen to flip nearly a full 360 degrees, turning the workaday laptop into a fun-filled tablet

sub-15mm thickness with the keyboard included

and an active stylus. There'll be a stylus-holding attachment that plugs into the Kensington lock.

Oh yes. :O
 

maeh2k

Member
The Dell XPS 11 is the first that ticks all the boxes for me:


Oh yes. :O

Nice machine, but I'm not sure how I feel about that keyboard. Maybe it could work for me since at home I use a mechanical keyboard, anyway. But I'm not sure I'd want to risk having to use that keyboard for years if I don't like it.
 

Blackhead

Redarse
Nice machine, but I'm not sure how I feel about that keyboard. Maybe it could work for me since at home I use a mechanical keyboard, anyway. But I'm not sure I'd want to risk having to use that keyboard for years if I don't like it.

The implementation of the haptic feedback wil be key. I couldn't stand the Surface Touch Cover but haptic might make this one tolerable (somewhere inbetween the Touch and Type Covers). The bigger trackpad should be an improvement over the nonsense Microsft put on the Surface keyboards.

I want to use it as a tablet so, assuming there are no alternatives, I might still get it even if the included keyboard is shit. There's always the possibility of an external keyboard.
 

Ziltoid

Unconfirmed Member
Anyone here own a Transformer Book? My laptop is on it's last legs and I'm kind of torn between getting either a Transformer Book or a Zenbook.

I'd like a hybrid PC, but I'm a bit uncertain when it comes to the dock on the transformer. The tablet itself is kind of heavy, and I can see the hinge on the dock becoming a problem after a while.
 

AnkitT

Member
Can't understand the distinction you're making here.

Sorry. I mean I dont see current touchscreen devices with w8 as devices with powerful GPUs to power modern games. I want basically the hardware of the razer blade with a lenovo yoga/whatever kind of touchscreen form factor.
 
My wishlist:

~13" laptop
8 hours real world battery life
Hi-res matte screen (minimum 1080p)
Light, relatively thin
Good standard warranty
Good keyboard/trackpad

This would finally allow me to upgrade from my 2007 Dell Latitude D630!
 

yogloo

Member
Is there any app that works with the on board gps on windows 8? My map app is useless.
My tablet is the asus ME400. There's supposed to be a gps on board, but there's no app that is able to utilize it.
 
Is there any app that works with the on board gps on windows 8? My map app is useless.
My tablet is the asus ME400. There's supposed to be a gps on board, but there's no app that is able to utilize it.

How do you like the Asus? I almost snagged one for $350 but got cold feet.
 

maeh2k

Member
Good. Considering what Intel is doing, [Windows RT] makes zero sense and only confuses people.

No! They need Windows RT and OEMs should start supporting it.

OEMs are focussing on Android. Just look at the new Transformer Pad and the Memo: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=574981

Asus has just announced a refresh to last year's Transformer Pad Infinity, with a much-improved display and processor. The new Android tablet has a 10.1-inch 2560 x 1600 IPS display, a Tegra 4 processor, and 2GB of RAM. Asus promises the tablet will have enough power to output 4K video through its HDMI-out port. It also has a USB 3.0 port, 32GB of storage, an SD card slot in its base, a 5-megapixel camera, and a 1.2-megapixel front-facing camera


This thing should be able to run Windows RT (assuming MS/Nvidia get Windows RT to support Tegra 4). People should be able to choose between an Android version and a Windows RT version which costs maybe $70 more (Windows RT license) but comes with Office.
Then you could make a compelling case for choosing Windows over Android.

Instead, Windows tablet tend to come with unappealing specs and higher prices...


Just look at the newly announced Acer 8" tablet. It's a $370 tablet with a bad 1280x800 screen. The Transformer Tab without the dock costs $400. How many people are going to choose the Windows tablet?

Maybe OEMs think the only ones buying Windows tablets will be businesses anyway and are trying to keep the price high for those while focussing on Android for comsumers.

They are not going to suddenly shift their attention to affordable Windows tablets. Microsofts best approach is making sure all those Android tablets could just as well run Windows RT so that it becomes trivial for OEMs to just put out both versions. Otherwise OEMs are basically deciding that Android is winning over Windows.
 

Wiktor

Member
No! They need Windows RT and OEMs should start supporting it.
.

Nobody wants those Win RT tablets and no matter how much they try they will always be more expensive than Android ones, so MS can never win the race to the bottom.

All WinRT is doing now is damaging the whole Windows 8 platform by making people terribly confused. The only worse idea than making Windows RT was sticking Windows name on it.
 

Wiktor

Member
I could see Surface RT as the only RT device if the OEM situation still remains the same.

The thing I'm most surprised about was the lack of Nook RT. When they announced WinRT I thought the sole purpsose of it was to stick it on sub $200 tablets. But instead they tried to go after high-end market.
 

yogloo

Member
How do you like the Asus? I almost snagged one for $350 but got cold feet.
I really liked it. If you plan to use it as a portable Windows machine, it is awesome. Extremely light and battery life is amazing. I usually get up to 8 hours of usage in a single charge. But if you plan to use it more as a consumption machine (similar to android or ios usage pattern), don't. It is awful in that regard. The appstore is dead and you can buy other tabs with better screen for cheaper.
 

maeh2k

Member
Nobody wants those Win RT tablets and no matter how much they try they will always be more expensive than Android ones, so MS can never win the race to the bottom.

All WinRT is doing now is damaging the whole Windows 8 platform by making people terribly confused. The only worse idea than making Windows RT was sticking Windows name on it.

They wouldn't be much more expensive. Even the rumored $95 license wasn't that expensive. Now there are rumors RT is getting cheaper and there are also costs for licensing Android. Windows RT wouldn't add more than $70 I guess. Possibly less. For that you get the full Office which is a pretty good value.
When OEMs sell an Android tablet, all the hardware design is already done. Getting Windows RT on it shouldn't be that hard or costly and might lead to a better product than releasing a half-assed, overpriced Windows tablet later on.


I disagree with no one wanting Windows RT tablets (though technically it might be true since people have no clue about operating systems and just buy what they are being sold).
Most people who buy Android tablets (or even lots of people who buy PCs in general, since they don't use much more than IE and maybe Office) would be fine with RT. I think the effect of that confusion is exaggerated.

The apps may not be there yet and the first-gen Windows RT devices may have made a bad impression to people who closely follow this stuff, but you shouldn't write off RT just yet.


This year's Nexus 7 will probably cost around $200 again, come with a faster CPU such as Tegra 4 and a high-res screen. If I could get the same device for $270 running RT, I would.
But that's not going to happen. Instead we'll see worse tablets at a higher cost like that 8" Acer.

As long as OEMs aren't trying harder and no one can't compete on price, Windows can't compete with Android. Of course OEMs don't really care. They'll sell tablets regardless of the OS.
 

tino

Banned
Its not the OEM's fault that the Surface RT cost more than the 10" Nexus tablet. The only reason was that MS got greedy.

If MS want to compete at the 7" market, they better make a $199 Surface RT.
 

maeh2k

Member
Its not the OEM's fault that the Surface RT cost more than the 10" Nexus tablet. The only reason was that MS got greedy.

If MS want to compete at the 7" market, they better make a $199 Surface RT.

Microsoft can't and shouldn't just undercut OEMs. Especially with a premium product (in terms of design and hardware quality).
 

tino

Banned
Microsoft can't and shouldn't just undercut OEMs. Especially with a premium product (in terms of design and hardware quality).

Nobody else will bother to make a RT tablet MS is not undercutting anyone. Look forward to MS's hilarious overpriced 7" Surface.
 

Wiktor

Member
They wouldn't be much more expensive. Even the rumored $95 license wasn't that expensive.
95$ is small number when tablet costs $700-800. At the bargain bin 7 inch market that license means 50% higher price.

Now there are rumors RT is getting cheaper and there are also costs for licensing Android. Windows RT wouldn't add more than $70 I guess. Possibly less. For that you get the full Office which is a pretty good value.

Office has pretty small value in RT. People who are willing to only pay little won't care and will use free alternatives. While people who recognize value of Office are likely willing to pay more and get full blown Windows 8 machine. The ammount of people who don't fit into either one of those groups is pretty small.

When OEMs sell an Android tablet, all the hardware design is already done. Getting Windows RT on it shouldn't be that hard or costly and might lead to a better product than releasing a half-assed, overpriced Windows tablet later on.
So you will have two tablets that look the same..only one will be noticably cheaper and will actually have decent apps for it. Why would anyone get Windows RT tablet when they can get cheaper and more supported Android one with exactly the same hardware?

Samsung did what you suggest in their phone line up with WP and nobody cared, while people bought Android versions like crazy.



though technically it might be true since people have no clue about operating systems and just buy what they are being sold)
That's a big problem. Because people like those might feel cheated when they buy Windows RT device and realize it's not real Windows and they can't run all their old software on it. The problem is that few people know the difference between RT and Windows 8. RT has been absolute diseaster when it comes to marketing. All it did was confuse people and scare them away from buying any Windows 8 devices.


Most people who buy Android tablets (or even lots of people who buy PCs in general, since they don't use much more than IE and maybe Office)
People like that don't need RT device, all of that can be done on much cheaper Android devices. And for everybody else RT won't be enough




As long as OEMs aren't trying harder and no one can't compete on price, Windows can't compete with Android. Of course OEMs don't really care. They'll sell tablets regardless of the OS.
The only way for RT devices to compete on price would be for Microsoft to stop charching for it. Untill they do, WinRT has no future.
 

maeh2k

Member
95$ is small number when tablet costs $700-800. At the bargain bin 7 inch market that license means 50% higher price.

Well, with the rumored price reduction and considering costs for Android the difference wouldn't be that high. Of course it's higher and you wouldn't see a Windows Asus Memo, but it would still be close enough in price. $400 Asus Transformer vs $470 Asus Transformer running Windows. (esp. when you buy the dock too, you'd have the better notebook with Windows)


Office has pretty small value in RT. People who are willing to only pay little won't care and will use free alternatives. While people who recognize value of Office are likely willing to pay more and get full blown Windows 8 machine. The ammount of people who don't fit into either one of those groups is pretty small.

I think there are enough people who would be interested in Office. Would be especially compelling for students and in schools. At college I see a lot of students use tablets and Office would be great for that.


So you will have two tablets that look the same..only one will be noticably cheaper and will actually have decent apps for it. Why would anyone get Windows RT tablet when they can get cheaper and more supported Android one with exactly the same hardware?

Without Windows RT things aren't really better. The released Windows tablets are more expensive than the Android ones (and not just by $70) and OEMs seemingly don't put that much effort into designing and selling them. The ones they want to sell and advertise are things like Galaxy tabs, Xperia Zs, ...

Getting Windows versions of the same devices would bring Windows closer in quality, price, and exposure.

And if Android is not only cheaper, but also better, then Windows tablets don't stand a chance anyway. x86 apps on the desktop won't make Atom tablets that much more compelling either.




Samsung did what you suggest in their phone line up with WP and nobody cared, while people bought Android versions like crazy.

The Galaxy brand is ridiculously strong. Hard to compete with that. Besides, phones like the Ativ S were basically sent to die.
HTC's 8X would be a better comparison and I don't know how that and the One X sold.

But the alternative to Samsung and HTC not reusing Android phones for Windows Phone is basically not making Windows Phones at all. So even in this case I'm all for releasing multiple versions of one phone.




That's a big problem. Because people like those might feel cheated when they buy Windows RT device and realize it's not real Windows and they can't run all their old software on it. The problem is that few people know the difference between RT and Windows 8. RT has been absolute diseaster when it comes to marketing. All it did was confuse people and scare them away from buying any Windows 8 devices.



People like that don't need RT device, all of that can be done on much cheaper Android devices. And for everybody else RT won't be enough



The only way for RT devices to compete on price would be for Microsoft to stop charching for it. Untill they do, WinRT has no future.


The way you say that, the only reason for anyone to ever get a Windows tablet is x86 software. I think for the vast majority of people who buy tablets (nearly everyone except business users and those who'd consider the Ultrabook-level tablets) x86 applications don't really factor into the consideration.

If that's the case then Windows 8 doesn't stand any chance whatsoever. It can't possibly compete on price or apps. iOS and Android will catch up in functionality before Windows catches up in apps.
 

maeh2k

Member
Some nice new Sony devices:

Sony Vaio Pro 11 and 13

Sony Vaio Pro 11 review

Sony Vaio Duo 13 review


Looks like Haswell is delivering on battery life:
While the original Duo only lasted 4 hours and 47 minutes on our battery test, Sony says the Duo 13 will endure for up to 10 hours. This longevity is achieved by adding a much bigger power pack -- the company says it's the equivalent of the Duo 11's normal battery plus its optional sheet attachment. When we ran our battery test (playing a video on loop with display brightness set to 65 percent and WiFi on), the device lasted an impressive 9 hours and 40 minutes, much longer than the current Ultrabook average.
 

Totakeke

Member
Engadget said:
During today's Computex keynote, Microsoft Windows chief Tami Reller just announced that new x86 Windows 8 tablets will include Office in the box. The executive didn't detail the software offering, beyond mentioning that Word, Excel, PowerPoint and OneNote will all be included. Windows RT devices, for their part, will now also include pre-installed Outlook, beginning with the Windows 8.1 update.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/05/microsoft-office-free-with-windows-8

Outlook for Windows RT! Nice.

They still need to make the Mail app more feature-rich and less shitty. Why can't it download emails in the background?
 

Wiktor

Member
Well, with the rumored price reduction and considering costs for Android the difference wouldn't be that high. Of course it's higher and you wouldn't see a Windows Asus Memo, but it would still be close enough in price. $400 Asus Transformer vs $470 Asus Transformer running Windows. (esp. when you buy the dock too, you'd have the better notebook with Windows)
The problem with that is that those $400 Android tablets are selling pretty badly. Most of Android tablet market is driven by really cheap tablets. And there you would have $200 vs 270. That's quite significant price hike for device without good app support
The way you say that, the only reason for anyone to ever get a Windows tablet is x86 software

Yes. That's the only reason to get Windows tablet over Android or iOS one. Windows 8 at least offers something extra over competition - much more powerful tablet that can double as PC when needed. WinRT mechines on the other hand are just Android tablets with bigger price and without apps. I honestly don't see why anyone would buy one over Apple/Google or Windows 8 products
 

Wiktor

Member
Because the basic user experience is superior. You know, like the things the OS is responsible for?

The basic tablet user experience is mostly centered around apps, which often either don't exist on RT or exist in inferior form. Sure, there are people who care the most about live tiles, but looking at how those RT tablets are selling, they're not a big audience
 

Totakeke

Member
The basic tablet user experience is mostly centered around apps, which often either don't exist on RT or exist in inferior form. Sure, there are people who care the most about live tiles, but looking at how those RT tablets are selling, they're not a big audience

Sales =/= review of product. I'd say the basic tablet user experience is mostly centered around the browser and internet services.
 

Wiktor

Member
Sales =/= review of product.
The reviews of RT tablets haven't been setting the world on fire either.

I'd say the basic tablet user experience is mostly centered around the browser and internet services.[/QUOTE]
And WinRT doesn't really offer anything substantially better in browsing
 

Nero3000

Member
Lol @ the verge Vaio Pro review: The screen resolution is too high to display our for iPad website. The MacBook air had it perfect. I can't zoom in using the touchscreen either. 6.0
 

Nero3000

Member
DO WANT! I love the way light reflects off this lid. Oh it also has a 2560*1440 touchscreen.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7035/...-with-the-most-beautiful-notebook-at-computex

DIhFZ2l.jpg
 

maeh2k

Member
DO WANT! I love the way light reflects off this lid. Oh it also has a 2560*1440 touchscreen.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7035/...-with-the-most-beautiful-notebook-at-computex

DIhFZ2l.jpg

I think the Zenbook will be really great. The current UX31A was already pretty great. It looks outstanding.

But I do have some concerns. First there's the glass. Might be a bit too damageable for my taste. Then there's the CPU. It's not one of those up-to-10-hours ULV CPUs. One article said it'll have a battery life comparable to previous Zenbooks, which might put it in the 4-5 hours category, which everyone deemed too low for the Surface Pro.
Besides, I'm still hoping for some good hybrids.
 
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