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Windows 8 Tablets/Laptops/Laplets Cross Shopping Thread of Most Confusing Launch |OT|

H

hipbabboom

Huh? What did I say? Did I screw up again? :(
I just got the first generation Lynx yesterday.

81D3cR1HwzL._SL1500_.jpg
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Perhaps it was the tapered expectations from al l the mixed reviews I’ve read about it but I have to say I’m honestly impressed. Last night I read two chapters of one of my favorite manga on it and I don’t think I’ve ever been more content with reading something in digital form. As fond as I am with Windows 8 on the desktop, the tablet is where the Modern UI really shines. I purchased it mainly as a content consumption device when I’m away from my desk or out and about but it’s not a laptop replacement as I got it without its mechanical keyboard cover but that doesn’t bother me too much. The Split onscreen keyboard is a godsend when typing in landscape mode; generally, the context sensitive nature of the onscreen keyboard is really pleasant. It feels a lot more solid than I was expecting and the thinness is makes it feel like a really elegant high-end piece of kit despite its low price. It’s definitely worth it for a 64GB tablet and the low 1366 resolution doesn’t bother me as much as I thought it would plus the screen has excellent color quality when viewed from standard viewing angles. I bought this as a stop-gap solution as the $379 price was too good to pass up. If the experience keeps being this good, I look forward to getting a 13” hybrid laptop next year.
 
T

tino

Banned
So the 22nm baytrail Atom chip is coming soon and we can revive this thread some what.

Asus Transformer T100 is first announcement, you can get a 64gb model for 399.
 
T

tino

Banned
Updated my W8 tablets/convertible comparison table with Surface 2, Sony Tab 11 and LenovoHelix.

The Surface Pro 2 spec is exactly the same as Surface Pro 1, I think MS just dropped the new i5 into the current chassis

 
M

maeh2k

Member
The first (?) really detailed Asus Zenbook UX301 (Infinity) review has arrived. So far only in German, though. http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Asus-Zenbook-Infinity-UX301LA-Ultrabook.102304.0.html

It did really well. Good build quality, good keyboard, good trackpad, good performance, good display, solid battery life. The reviewers didn't have many issues with it. The display is a bit too reflective, the webcam isn't great, it has limited upgradeability, and it costs a lot.
In there battery test it managed about six and a half hours. That's pretty decent considering its performance.
The version they tested costs 1800 Euros. That's quite expensive. That's with 256 GB SSD (2 x 128 GB in raid 0), 8 GB RAM, and the 2560x1440 resolution.
 
O

opticalmace

Member
maeh2k said:
The first (?) really detailed Asus Zenbook UX301 (Infinity) review has arrived. So far only in German, though. http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Asus-Zenbook-Infinity-UX301LA-Ultrabook.102304.0.html

It did really well. Good build quality, good keyboard, good trackpad, good performance, good display, solid battery life. The reviewers didn't have many issues with it. The display is a bit too reflective, the webcam isn't great, it has limited upgradeability, and it costs a lot.
In there battery test it managed about six and a half hours. That's pretty decent considering its performance.
The version they tested costs 1800 Euros. That's quite expensive. That's with 256 GB SSD (2 x 128 GB in raid 0), 8 GB RAM, and the 2560x1440 resolution.
Click to expand...
1800 Euros? Holy shit.
 
M

maeh2k

Member
opticalmace said:
1800 Euros? Holy shit.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this year the PC OEMs might be aiming a little too high with their devices. The Vaio Pro 13, Aspire S7, Surface Pro, and now Zenbook 301 seem to have moved up to Apple prices and I don't think many will be willing to pay Apple prices for anything but Apple products. I doubt this move will pay off for them. They have certainly priced themselves out of my budget.
 
M

maeh2k

Member
The new Dell XPS 15 looks very promising: http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/2/4793836/dells-new-xps-15-aims-to-be-the-king-of-portable-windows-machines
It's the company's new flagship laptop, and depending on your bankroll it can practically have it all: a 3200 x 1800 touchscreen display, a full 2.2GHz quad-core Core i7 Haswell processor, game-capable Nvidia GeForce GT 750M graphics, 16GB of RAM, 512GB of solid state storage, a 13-hour battery, and a surprisingly decent array of ports in a 4.4 pound, 18 mm thin package.
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I might even consider this one myself, even though I actually wanted more of a convertible device. But so far none of the convertibles have convinced me. They all have their flaws. Maybe a great regular notebook will in the end be preferable to a flawed convertible.

Hm, well scratch that...
The new XPS 15 will start at $1,499 on October 18th, but that's just for the base model with a Core i5 processor, a 1080p screen, integrated Intel graphics, hybrid storage, and even a smaller battery.
Click to expand...

If I configured it with the specs I'd want it would surely be $2000+. Too expensive.
 
M

maeh2k

Member
That's actually better than I thought it would be. A really compelling 8" device. Seems to have a real active digitizer. Wonder if every unit has the digitizer or just the more expensive ones and I'd like to know how much the pen is.
 
M

Milchjon

Member
Man, it seems like Win8 tablets are finally getting to a point where they're starting to get attractive.

The Venue 8 Pro seems cheaper and more appealing than I expected it to be.

Edit: With the pen and OneNote, this could be really cool for university use.
 
M

maeh2k

Member
Here's a 22 minute video review of the Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro: http://youtu.be/db_exSNtjdk

I think it's a really great device. Unlike most other new machines that appeal to me, the Yoga 2 Pro even seems reasonably priced. So far I kind of really wanted a hybrid with an active digitizer, but I'm not even sure how much I'd actually use a pen. So maybe the Yoga 2 Pro is the way to go.

In the video she spends a weirdly long time on how to basically survive with the 3200x1800 display in Windows. The first thing she did was reduce the resolution ^^. No idea why she didn't use scaling instead.
 
Wiktor

Wiktor

Member
maeh2k said:
Here's a 22 minute video review of the Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro: http://youtu.be/db_exSNtjdk

I think it's a really great device. Unlike most other new machines that appeal to me, the Yoga 2 Pro even seems reasonably priced. So far I kind of really wanted a hybrid with an active digitizer, but I'm not even sure how much I'd actually use a pen. So maybe the Yoga 2 Pro is the way to go.

In the video she spends a weirdly long time on how to basically survive with the 3200x1800 display in Windows. The first thing she did was reduce the resolution ^^. No idea why she didn't use scaling instead.
Click to expand...

Isn't Thinkpad Yoga actually cheaper? And it has digitizer.
 
M

maeh2k

Member
AdrianWerner said:
Isn't Thinkpad Yoga actually cheaper? And it has digitizer.
Click to expand...

The Thinkpad may start at <$1000 in the US, but I think the specs will be pretty low. 1366x768, no SSD. They were talking about bringing it to Europe starting at 1800 Euros (in a different configuration, of course). With similar specs it will probably be more expensive than the Yoga 2 Pro.
Besides, the Thinkpad Yoga isn't perfect, either. It's an S series Thinkpad, not an X series one. It doesn't have the 'real' docking port. The OneLink dock only has one HDMI out (if I were to buy a dock, I'd prefer one with two DisplayPorts). The RAM is only single-channel.
So at the presumed prices of the Thinkpad Yoga it might be more expensive than the higher quality T440.

That said, I'll still consider the Thinkpad Yoga when they release all the prices and when I see some reviews.
 
B

Blackhead

Redarse
maeh2k said:
In the video she spends a weirdly long time on how to basically survive with the 3200x1800 display in Windows. The first thing she did was reduce the resolution ^^. No idea why she didn't use scaling instead.
Click to expand...

I've been ignoring all the resolution talk in the reviews and waiting until Windows 8.1 is out.
 
M

maeh2k

Member
Greyface said:
I've been ignoring all the resolution talk in the reviews and waiting until Windows 8.1 is out.
Click to expand...

The real issue isn't solved with 8.1. The problem is that virtually no one supports the high-dpi measures that have been part of Windows for years. If not even Google bothers to get high-dpi right in Chrome, while they had no problem putting in the effort for their high-dpi Chromebook Pixel, then I doubt we'll see much improvement anytime soon.
 
B

Blackhead

Redarse
maeh2k said:
The real issue isn't solved with 8.1. The problem is that virtually no one supports the high-dpi measures that have been part of Windows for years. If not even Google bothers to get high-dpi right in Chrome, while they had no problem putting in the effort for their high-dpi Chromebook Pixel, then I doubt we'll see much improvement anytime soon.
Click to expand...

Well they won't support it if it's not out yet. Apple announced Adobe would support high-dpi when they released the MBP retina last year and that still took a couple months before the update was available.

What I want to see in Windows 8.1 is complete high-dpi support from Microsoft in all the default apps and system UI. I'll be using a windows tablet primarily for pdfs, photos and other consumable content which should be manageable without waiting for third party apps to add support. I don't need photoshop, games etc and can ignore those developers that are dragging their feet. I know this isn't true for many people but for me it is.
 
N

Nero3000

Member
Greyface said:
Well they won't support it if it's not out yet. Apple announced Adobe would support high-dpi when they released the MBP retina last year and that still took a couple months before the update was available.

What I want to see in Windows 8.1 is complete high-dpi support from Microsoft in all the default apps and system UI. I'll be using a windows tablet primarily for pdfs, photos and other consumable content which should be manageable without waiting for third party apps to add support. I don't need photoshop, games etc and can ignore those developers that are dragging their feet. I know this isn't true for many people but for me it is.
Click to expand...

Which one's from microsoft don't? As far as im aware all of Microsofts applications (office, IE, control panel, file explorer, task manager, resource monitor etc.) are all DPI aware and scale brilliantly.
 
B

Blackhead

Redarse
Nero3000 said:
Which one's from microsoft don't? As far as im aware all of Microsofts applications (office, IE, control panel, file explorer, task manager, resource monitor etc.) are all DPI aware and scale brilliantly.
Click to expand...

I was under the impression (anandtech) that only Metro scaled perfectly and the desktop had some glitches... good to hear everything is already working well; Microsoft needs to lead by example if they want third-party developers to support scaling properly.
 
M

maximum360

Member
I like the Dell Venue 11 Pro approach where you have the option of Atom through Haswell i5 processors. Microsoft should have gone this route and just completely ditched Windows RT.
 
M

maximum360

Member
After doing some more research it looks like the Bay Trail M line [Pentium, Celeron] coming in Q1 of next year supports 64 bit Windows [I think the current version does as well but this is a Microsoft problem with drivers] and 4 GB RAM. Coupled with a 128 GB SSD [at minimum for me] would make this a viable laptop replacement for me. I won't be gaming on the laptop so I could probably do without the Haswell processors.

I really like the surface Pro 2 and glad that they made improvements in battery life and other things but I'm still disappointed in the thickness and weight. A slightly thinner, slightly lighter 256 GB SSD verision would be ideal for me but the price does sour things a bit.
 
A

a secret-boss

Banned
the new Atom processor would have good battery life but I wonder how the performance is when using painting programs like ArtRage or photoshop.
 
T

tino

Banned
a secret-boss said:
the new Atom processor would have good battery life but I wonder how the performance is when using painting programs like ArtRage or photoshop.
Click to expand...

Photoshop isn't very cpu hungry. But you only have 2GB to work with.

At the end of the day its better than any Android or iOS photo editing program that's one of the main reasons people put up with a slow Windows 8 tablet.
 
M

maximum360

Member
a secret-boss said:
the new Atom processor would have good battery life but I wonder how the performance is when using painting programs like ArtRage or photoshop.
Click to expand...

Baytrail-M vs Ultrabooks
Looking at performance figures for Baytrail-T that were revealed last week we can expect good performance increases over the Atom Clovertrail generation but performance will not get near that of Ultrabooks based on Core i3, i5 and i7 CPUs where the GPU and CPU architecture is better and clock-rates are higher. At this stage the figures indicate a differential of 2X – 3X performance on an Ultrabook versus a Baytrail-M device. In real-world terms the Baytrail-M based products should feel acceptable for most people. 720p video editing should be quick but 1080p editing could be too slow for productive use. Graphics performance will be similar to what we saw on the first generation of Ultrabooks in 2011 which just about covers some non-intensive games. The best, fast SSD-based Baytrail-M designs should make comfortable desktops for the home user.
The most confusing aspect of Baytrail-M designs will be that they will be slimmer, lighter and cheaper than low-cost 4th-Gen Core designs. Ultrabook branding will be important in order to differentiate the higher-power Core-based designs.
Click to expand...

http://www.umpcportal.com/2013/09/baytrail-m-small-screen-touch-and-the-399-detachable/
 
Z

Zeknurn

Member
tino, your spreadsheet lists that the Dell Venue 8 Pro has a mHDMI when it does not have one. It's a shame that Dell decided to not include it as it seems like it's otherwise the best 8 inch tablet available at Win8.1 launch.

Also, I'm wondering if you could add confirmed/projected release dates for every tablet. It would be very useful to know which tablets are out close to launch.
 
T

tino

Banned
Zeknurn said:
tino, your spreadsheet lists that the Dell Venue 8 Pro has a mHDMI when it does not have one. It's a shame that Dell decided to not include it as it seems like it's otherwise the best 8 inch tablet available at Win8.1 launch.

Also, I'm wondering if you could add confirmed/projected release dates for every tablet. It would be very useful to know which tablets are out close to launch.
Click to expand...

Its not? I copied from one of the blog report. Ok fixed.
 
T

tino

Banned
Updated spreadsheet with Lenovo Miix 2.

Its basically a Dell Venue 8 Pro with lighter weight and...still no slot in type keyboard.
 
T

tino

Banned
Acer W4 is also another 8" Atom tablet. I can't tell the difference until somebody look at all 3 8" tablets and comment on the screen.
 
S

SonofdonCD

Member
Here is the first review for the Asus Transformer Book T100, from Anandtech:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7428/asus-transformer-book-t100-review

It is mostly positive, with the negatives mostly being that the size might be too cramped for some, and obviously if you want real power you gotta go with a Haswell powered tablet. The reviewer didn't have enough time with the product to thoroughly test the battery life yet. Overall though, nothing too surprising with this review.

I am really, really interested in this tablet. I do some writing while on the go, and my Nexus 7, Nook HD+ and HTC 8X smartphone just don't do it for writing. This Tablet/Notebook combo having a keyboard included AND MS Office '13 Home/Student edition for $350-400 is sooooo tempting. But I will also wait for more reviews for both this tablet and the Dell Venue 8 Pro & 11 Pro before taking the plunge.
 
P

-Pyromaniac-

Member
So the Surface 2 disappointed me. Still not into RT and I'm done waiting another year lol. What's the best 8.1 tablet that can run full windows (either atom or higher) at a good price but is still high quality.

The Lenovo Miix 2 seems promising on that front...? The Dell Venue 8 is a new one too but looks...meh to me. Acer W3 was garbage so I'm not sure about the W4. The Asus one seems interesting becomes it comes with a keyboard dock, but dat resolution. Even the 8 inch ones have better resolutions on smaller screens. I know it's entry level but still.

edit: oh wait the lenovo doesn't have a usb port? lulz. Cross that out. Same with the 8 inch venue. I guess the Asus one is looking like the best bang for buck. Would hate to have to keep my eye on a micro USB adapter every time I wanted to use that. Also it kind of sucks that on the Asus the usb port is on the keyboard and not the tablet.
 
T

tino

Banned
-Pyromaniac- said:
So the Surface 2 disappointed me. Still not into RT and I'm done waiting another year lol. What's the best 8.1 tablet that can run full windows (either atom or higher) at a good price but is still high quality.

The Lenovo Miix 2 seems promising on that front...? The Dell Venue 8 is a new one too but looks...meh to me. Acer W3 was garbage so I'm not sure about the W4. The Asus one seems interesting becomes it comes with a keyboard dock, but dat resolution. Even the 8 inch ones have better resolutions on smaller screens. I know it's entry level but still.

edit: oh wait the lenovo doesn't have a usb port? lulz. Cross that out. Same with the 8 inch venue. I guess the Asus one is looking like the best bang for buck. Would hate to have to keep my eye on a micro USB adapter every time I wanted to use that. Also it kind of sucks that on the Asus the usb port is on the keyboard and not the tablet.
Click to expand...

All 3 are meh with giant bezels but I would pick the Miix2 out of them (assuming the Acer W4 doesn't have noticeable better screen).

I seriously think you can hack the aftermarket iPad mini bluetooth keyboard to use on these.
 
P

-Pyromaniac-

Member
tino said:
All 3 are meh with giant bezels but I would pick the Miix2 out of them (assuming the Acer W4 doesn't have noticeable better screen).

I seriously think you can hack the aftermarket iPad mini bluetooth keyboard to use on these.
Click to expand...
ughh if microsoft released an 8 inch surface with atom for 350 I'd be in heaven. I just don't want to make the pro jump because I don't need another computer, but I also don't want to settle for RT, and the surface 2 is just too expensive and the one is...lulz. This is why I can never decide on a windows tablet. There's never a clearcut thing. It's always like which one sucks the least for me.
 
T

tino

Banned
-Pyromaniac- said:
ughh if microsoft released an 8 inch surface with atom for 350 I'd be in heaven. I just don't want to make the pro jump because I don't need another computer, but I also don't want to settle for RT, and the surface 2 is just too expensive and the one is...lulz. This is why I can never decide on a windows tablet. There's never a clearcut thing. It's always like which one sucks the least for me.
Click to expand...

8" and 10.5" tablets are different sizes and have completely different use case, why the hell are you comparing them.
 
P

-Pyromaniac-

Member
tino said:
8" and 10.5" tablets are different sizes and have completely different use case, why the hell are you comparing them.
Click to expand...
not really. I don't consider the asus 10.1 inch one to be THAT different from the 8 inch ones. I agree that i3/i5/i7 models have completely different use cases, but as for the rest I don't see that big a gap.

I just want something that isn't missing something at a decent price. Everything is pretty obvious. Android = nexus 7. iOS = ipad mini or ipad 4. Here it's like....lolwut. So many negatives on so many products that I'm not sure which to just say fuck it and bite the bullet on. Though I know I want one. Bahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Indecisive when it comes to windows. I guess I'll just wait for reviews to come out for all the newly announced stuff, should be very soon since they're all launching around now right? Then I'll just pick whichever is best.
 
P

-Pyromaniac-

Member
The Venue 8 Pro has a keyboard attachment? Where's dat at? Unless you mean any bluetooth keyboard.

Also that one has better battery life than the Lenovo right? I'm torn between the two but they seem like the best of the 2 options at the 8 inch size. The Asus being the third option. Reviews should be out any second now considering it's out...
 
S

SonofdonCD

Member
Another Asus Transformer Book T100 review:

http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/tablets/asus-transformer-book-t100.aspx

Very good review. Said the battery life is really very good, like iPad 4 good (about 12 1/2 hours). Still complaining about a cramped keyboard, but said the keys were easier to hit than the Touch or Type Cover keyboards on the Surface, for what that's worth. They also say that it takes quite a while to charge the tablet. Not a deal breaker, but something to know.

I really want to use the thing before I buy it. But it is currently on the top of my list of Windows tablets to buy, followed by the Dell Venue 8 Pro and Surface 2 (God, I wish I could afford the Surface Pro 2!). Just looking for more reviews, which are coming out very slowly, unfortunately.
 
P

-Pyromaniac-

Member
SonofdonCD said:
Another Asus Transformer Book T100 review:

http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/tab...book-t100.aspx
Click to expand...
thanks for that. Bah. For me it's a toss up between this and the venue 8 pro. The transformer looks like better value for everything you get overall, but the venue 8 pro is attractive in terms of size and all that. Both at great prices. And yeah I'm stuck waiting for the reviews too. Thought there'd be more by now but I guess sites had to buy theirs like everyone else?
 
Z

Zeknurn

Member
-Pyromaniac- said:
The Venue 8 Pro has a keyboard attachment? Where's dat at? Unless you mean any bluetooth keyboard.

Also that one has better battery life than the Lenovo right? I'm torn between the two but they seem like the best of the 2 options at the 8 inch size. The Asus being the third option. Reviews should be out any second now considering it's out...
Click to expand...

Venue 8 Pro is the only 8" tablet with an active digitiser (note: Synaptics) so if using a pen is more important for you than having a keyboard attachment it's your only choice.

The first generation 8" tablets seems to be about trade-offs. You need to decide what's the most important thing for you.

Or you could wait until spring and hope that the Lenovo Miix 8 is still coming and does everything.
 
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