names2hard4you
Member
I'm a little bit confused here too. From the very first week I was simply blown away by the animation quality in Mob. I would understand not liking the artstyle, but the animation? Idk.
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Winter Anime 2017 |OT| John Wick cleaning up KyoAni's mess
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GoldCrusader
Member
Mob psycho episode 4 is still the best of the whole bunch. While episode 5 did look amazing I felt the narrative was missing something and it made the actions, while cool, less impactful
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Also it's pretty clear the guy just doesn't like the artstyle and he must just connect it to the animation.
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Also it's pretty clear the guy just doesn't like the artstyle and he must just connect it to the animation.
Cornbread78
Member
IDK man. I don't buy a ton of "new" games and this year proves why you shouldn't because chapter 11-13 of XV kinda dropped it down for me. I still have to finish the story though. I'm going back to finish up some side quests and hunts before doing the final mission. The beginning was really fun, but you can see where they cut themselves short story wise; it's like Jun Marda showing 24 episodes of Charlotte content ibto 13 episodes....
Now SO5. Yeah, it had some big issues, but the story wasn't half bad. They just trimmed do much fat from what a "Star Ocean" game should be... I still liked the characters and especially the battles. I've been in love with that SO/Tales/Radiata Stories battle system since SO3.
My favorite games this year have been on Vita with Trails of Cold Steel II and World of Final Fantasy. I have to think about it a little bit more though.
I didn't think to try it that way. I have to edit the whole list on Monday, lol.
KazenY2J
Member
Have you seen OPM?
The styles are pretty similar, just Mob is more sketchy looking.
Dedication Through Light
Member
At least opm used industry standard and familiar character designs.
That's not a positive.
Cornbread78
Member
At least it's not me in the frying pan for once..
victreeb3l
Member
Thats fair. Maybe I'm getting my dislike for the art style influence my feelings for the animation. Like that Reigen example he highlights in that blog post, I appreciate the expressiveness and dynamic angles but I guess I'm not a big fan of the scribbles or how limbs turn into smears. Its too noticeable and feels like the actions should be smoother. Does that make sense? Is that more of an art style issue?
Yup. I liked it.
Dedication Through Light
Member
Funi will still have ToX tomorrow morning
The second season of Tales of Zestiria the X launches TOMORROW at 9:30 AM ET! See both the 1st and 2nd seasons on funimation.com/talesofzestiria!
The second season of Tales of Zestiria the X launches TOMORROW at 9:30 AM ET! See both the 1st and 2nd seasons on funimation.com/talesofzestiria!
GoldCrusader
Member
DTL my man you bring the best of news! I was sure I would have to sub to Daisuki.
Shame I am working when it airs tho :/
Cornbread78
Member
hosannainexcelsis
Member
The One Punch Man anime looks very different from the Mob Psycho 100 anime. Of course, OPM was adapting Murata's designs as well as using middle-of-the-road art design, whereas Mob adapted ONE's original designs and had more unconventional and creative art design.
That would be more of a style issue, yes. Rough and loose animation with heavy deformation isn't going to be appreciated by everyone, but it is a legitimate form of animation with artistic merit (see also The Tale of Princess Kaguya or Shinya Ohira's work).
That's not a negative either.
Dedication Through Light
Member
How? Industry standard looks great these days and certainly better than all the old animes I see as well as all the experimental drawn ones. Servamp, Puzzle & Dragons X, and like Battery looked far better than Mob Psycho.
It is when you are using Murata tho'.
victreeb3l
Member
Gotcha. Okay then, I'll concede. I shouldn't judge animation quality solely based on the art style.
How do you determine what's good animation and what isn't, even if the art itself isn't appealing? What do you look for?
Aaronrules380
Member
Fluidity of motion?
GoldCrusader
Member
Look at something like the outcast, that's what bad animation looks like.
But bad animation is usually really stiff looking.
That's the big one. Having a camera actively moving throughout a scene can also be pretty impressive in traditional animation. Another one I can think of is things having a sense of weight to them; for example, in EoE when Asuka is fighting the Mass-Production Evangelions and swinging that huge blade around, you can tell how heavy it is from the way Unit-02 is moving when using it. That's impressive to me, at least.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Yeah that scene is what I think of, the way things stagger and move really conveys the weightiness
victreeb3l
Member
How fluid does the animation have to be to be considered good? Sometimes choppiness can be a stylistic choice right?
When I think of good animation, its something that has smooth and understandable transitions between motions, has weight and adheres to some physics rules. However I've seen stuff that doesn't fit all of that and still looks good and I cant describe why.
Does anyone have any well written critiques of bad animation? I'd love to learn more.
Hey so if you're planning on ever watching Toradora and you haven't before, you should probably skip this post.
Toradora 19 -rewatch-
Ryuuji's still trying to convince Minori to come to the party, but Taiga interrupts his call to bestow a present upon him: a suit. Ryuji's a little ticked off it belonged to her shitty old man, but takes it anyway after disembroidering it.
Ryuuji looks like a yakuza in the black and red, but Ya-chan gifts the two of them with items of worth; her perfume for Taiga, and a watch of Ryuuji's grandfather to him (revealing that she ran away from home and stole a bunch of things). He doesn't look thrilled about it, but takes it anyway.
Yuri-sensei mentions she's going to a real estate seminar and trundles off. The party starts with Kitamura in full comedy mode. Still no sign of Minorin. Some comedy bits with those Two Guys and Kitamura before Taiga and Ami surprise everyone with a christmas song.
Ryuuji wonders briefly when they had time to practice it before we begin to montage to absent characters - crucially, Minorin.
The song ends and cut to Minorin listening to Ryuuji's message, which Taiga interrupts. Even when he's telling Minori he wants to see her, he's already going to Taiga.
Back to the party. Kitamura and the rest of the class goof off while Ami comes over to see Ryuuji. When Ryuuji asks where Taiga is, Ami, surprised he doesn't know, tells him that she went to drag Minorin to the party and stalks off. "I did warn you," she says, stalking off.
Her words finally stir Ryuuji to finally realise that this is hurting Taiga greatly and resolve to deal with it somehow. He runs off.
We flip perspective into Taiga's head to find her reflecting on what she's just done, send Minorin to Ryuuji by telling her that he was prepared to wait at the party until she came. She looks utterly defeated, sprawling in her chair, Ryuuji's scarf still over her shoulders.
Taiga reflects that Santa isn't coming, and thinks to herself to what extent it's her fault - to to what extent does she feel like she actually deserves to be loved? And then tells herself that Santa doesn't exist anyway. And thinks to herself that she'll be alone forever.
Santa arrives in the form of a localised comedy sequence. For a moment, we are unsure if Taiga has actually figured anything out or not, but her uninhibited joy shines through.
They drop the scarf as Taiga removes the head and shows she knew the whole time it was Ryuuji, trying to give her some joy - a "Make believe Santa coming to a make-believe good girl". (He even left his phone and Minorin's present behind to cheer her up. Seriously, this guy.) She reverts temporarily to the normal fireball Taiga as she tries to convince him that meeting Minorin is what he wants to do. I'm fairly certain she literally kicks him out the door.
Going back inside she finds Ryuuji's scarf and has a realisation.
As usual, realisations are punctuated by action as Taiga runs to chase after him, but can't find him. This sequence is frantic, desperate, a kind of raw animal pain set to the same elegant, calm music that plays when Taiga is protecting Ryuuji back in episode 8.
She is observed:
Minorin proceeds to find Ryuuji at school, but still can't bring herself to be direct, hiding her face as she rejects him and runs away.
Ryuuji's had just about all he can take for today and faints.
Merry Christmas, ya filthy animals!
---
Kugimiya delivers a seriously stellar performance here, flipping between Taiga's childish glee and her heartfelt despair. The episode is a whole heap of characters sacrificing themselves for other people, with the end result that everybody loses. BUT at the same time, our characters have finally stumbled into a few key realisations: Taiga finally admits to herself she loves Ryuuji, and Ryuuji has conclusively been rejected by Minorin.
I remember the first time I saw this episode it hit me like a goddamn truck. In many ways the conclusion is inevitable - the signs are all there throughout the series - but I think the average viewer hopes against hope that it will turn out well for all involved and is absolutely flattened when it doesn't. The rolling emotional turnabouts from the second half of the episode onwards are really incredible.
Also, have a gallery of animation cels!
Toradora 19 -rewatch-
Ryuuji's still trying to convince Minori to come to the party, but Taiga interrupts his call to bestow a present upon him: a suit. Ryuji's a little ticked off it belonged to her shitty old man, but takes it anyway after disembroidering it.
Taiga doesn't change hairstyles often, but when she does, it's lovely.
Ryuuji looks like a yakuza in the black and red, but Ya-chan gifts the two of them with items of worth; her perfume for Taiga, and a watch of Ryuuji's grandfather to him (revealing that she ran away from home and stole a bunch of things). He doesn't look thrilled about it, but takes it anyway.
Ryuuji again wrapping Taiga in his scarf. If you pay attention, she actually wears his scarf a few times in previous episodes, ever since their talk under the stars during Kitamura's arc.
Yuri-sensei mentions she's going to a real estate seminar and trundles off. The party starts with Kitamura in full comedy mode. Still no sign of Minorin. Some comedy bits with those Two Guys and Kitamura before Taiga and Ami surprise everyone with a christmas song.
Ryuuji wonders briefly when they had time to practice it before we begin to montage to absent characters - crucially, Minorin.
Empty eyes.
The song ends and cut to Minorin listening to Ryuuji's message, which Taiga interrupts. Even when he's telling Minori he wants to see her, he's already going to Taiga.
Minorin's usual presentation is her bombastic facade, so this quiet, sullen tension is still shocking and alien.
Back to the party. Kitamura and the rest of the class goof off while Ami comes over to see Ryuuji. When Ryuuji asks where Taiga is, Ami, surprised he doesn't know, tells him that she went to drag Minorin to the party and stalks off. "I did warn you," she says, stalking off.
Ami spends most of the conversation literally separated from Ryuuji by the table and with her back to him.
Her words finally stir Ryuuji to finally realise that this is hurting Taiga greatly and resolve to deal with it somehow. He runs off.
We flip perspective into Taiga's head to find her reflecting on what she's just done, send Minorin to Ryuuji by telling her that he was prepared to wait at the party until she came. She looks utterly defeated, sprawling in her chair, Ryuuji's scarf still over her shoulders.
See Taiga hiding Ryuuji's scarf behind her back?
Minorin looks like she doesn't believe Taiga at all.
Taiga reflects that Santa isn't coming, and thinks to herself to what extent it's her fault - to to what extent does she feel like she actually deserves to be loved? And then tells herself that Santa doesn't exist anyway. And thinks to herself that she'll be alone forever.
Even as Taiga tells herself she's alone, she clings to the most obvious symbol that she isn't alone.
Santa arrives in the form of a localised comedy sequence. For a moment, we are unsure if Taiga has actually figured anything out or not, but her uninhibited joy shines through.
Throughout this scene Taiga acts like a joyous child, clutching and smiling and hopping around. Santa obliges by twirling her around in his arms. She's so happy that he made her dream come true, even for this little while.
They drop the scarf as Taiga removes the head and shows she knew the whole time it was Ryuuji, trying to give her some joy - a "Make believe Santa coming to a make-believe good girl". (He even left his phone and Minorin's present behind to cheer her up. Seriously, this guy.) She reverts temporarily to the normal fireball Taiga as she tries to convince him that meeting Minorin is what he wants to do. I'm fairly certain she literally kicks him out the door.
She even reverts to their earlier dog-coded language, though softer.
Going back inside she finds Ryuuji's scarf and has a realisation.
As usual, realisations are punctuated by action as Taiga runs to chase after him, but can't find him. This sequence is frantic, desperate, a kind of raw animal pain set to the same elegant, calm music that plays when Taiga is protecting Ryuuji back in episode 8.
She is observed:
If Minorin is going to school, she doesn't pass by Taiga or Ryuuji's building, so the only reason she would be here is to see Taiga first.
Minorin proceeds to find Ryuuji at school, but still can't bring herself to be direct, hiding her face as she rejects him and runs away.
It's not even that she doesn't believe in love/UFOs, it's that she's decided not to look for them, or that she doesn't deserve to look for them.
Even now she tries to cover up her feelings with her facade, but her heart's not in it as she literally rushes off.
Ryuuji's had just about all he can take for today and faints.
Classic dissonance as the Christmas music kicks in.
Merry Christmas, ya filthy animals!
---
Kugimiya delivers a seriously stellar performance here, flipping between Taiga's childish glee and her heartfelt despair. The episode is a whole heap of characters sacrificing themselves for other people, with the end result that everybody loses. BUT at the same time, our characters have finally stumbled into a few key realisations: Taiga finally admits to herself she loves Ryuuji, and Ryuuji has conclusively been rejected by Minorin.
I remember the first time I saw this episode it hit me like a goddamn truck. In many ways the conclusion is inevitable - the signs are all there throughout the series - but I think the average viewer hopes against hope that it will turn out well for all involved and is absolutely flattened when it doesn't. The rolling emotional turnabouts from the second half of the episode onwards are really incredible.
Also, have a gallery of animation cels!
Maybe you're not used to the concept of limited animation.It can be jarring coming from something animated on 1s but it's been it's own approach for awhile now and endemic in anime. Old sakuga panel iso vid might help illustrate where some are coming from here.
What a garbage list. *smug*
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
It has my GOTY from this past year, and my #2 from 2015 on it, so it can't all be bad.
Although I do question some of the other inclusions.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Where's Doom?
I don't think fluidity is really the best consideration for quality of animation when it comes to appreciation, especially in anime. Anime by nature of the industry and the culture over the decades relies on more limited and and by definition less fluid animation compared to western animation principles.
With regards to logical transitions and good physics, I agree this is far more important. But I think I can express it in a more general way that applies to all art styles. The importance isn't how realistic something is, because animation tends to explore the more fantastical. So when it comes to animation transitions and properties of physics, we don't necessarily want to compare it to the ones in reality. But it is very important to convey the feeling that the animator does understand how these properties work, before they take advantage of it create something outside of natural rules.
So what we can look for is elements of reality applied in things which might have no grounding in reality, if the scene calls for it. If two superhuman dudes are brawling it out in the sky and they are flying around with the aid of powers or whatever and blasting beams while swinging swords, the important part is not "damn, this makes no sense how are they even defying gravity?" because that's honestly a stupid question and doesn't matter. What would matter would be the nuances in the movement and seeing how the animator has chosen to convey the subjects defying gravity and what impact this has on the momentum of their movements. When they use energy blasts, is there a satisfying sense of feedback to show the strength of the blast? As their swords clash does it feel like there is real impact and strength behind the motions? All the little things make the animation feel more exciting and add weight to the movement of characters.
Another interesting form of fantastical animation is morphing. Look at this example: https://sakugabooru.com/post/show/4625
There is zero basis in reality in terms of whatever that thing is transforming into a person. We don't know what properties the matter has and why it behaves the way it does. But yet it looks great because it shows a great understanding of human anatomy and how things "feel". Every little subtle movement as part of the transformation looks like a person breaking out of some weird gooey shell of sorts.
But I don't think any of this really answers the question you want to ask which is "what is bad animation and why is some things which look bad to me considered really good to other people" and this is where I'm going to point something out: Animation is art, and as such art is in the eyes of the beholder. When it comes to technical elements, as long as there is a good amount of talent and effort shown, it's not "objectively bad" animation. Most animation isn't. The ones which are objectively bad are incomplete animation or just bad looking stuff which was clearly rushed and pretty much everyone will agree. When it comes to people arguing over whether stylized types of animation are "good" or "bad" it is very subjective, and even the people who love it should recognize that there is no objective truth. The purpose of art is to express yourself and to also communicate something to an audience. If someone doesn't like what is communicated, that is also a fair response.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Man Soul Eater was a great looking show. Kishin was a creepy asshole.
I think this episode hits everybody like a truck. Those screams by Kugimiya are heartbreaking. She really did an exceptional job for that sequence. That's actually what impressed me the most about that scene, the VA work. That's just pain in its purest form.
I think of all the scenes in the show, this is probably the most charged one. Truly the worst Christmas episode ever.
It's ironic that the show has become something of a "thing to rewatch on Christmas" deal for some people when literally nothing good happens to anyone involved in the episode when Christmas actually takes place!
On a side note replacing the ED with the christmas song is so blatantly cruel and manipulative I'm convinced it was Okadabot's idea.
It's so absolutely savage that it probably was Okada's idea. shiiiiiiiiiiiitttttttt
Merry Christmas motherfuckers!!!
KazenY2J
Member
I think BONES President Minami-san probably convinced me to finish all the shows aired in this catchup month.
Now make more Space Dandy, pretty please.
Now make more Space Dandy, pretty please.
Admiral Woofington
Member
This is probably the perfect encapsulation of the Toradora Christmas arc:
Everybody ends up wrecking themselves. Taiga ends up screwing herself over. Ryuuji accidentally ruins his chances with Minorin. Minorin due to her edge phase winds up hurting everybody including herself. Ami does Ami things. Okada couldn't have written this better.
Everybody is fucking miserable at the end of this shit.
Everybody ends up wrecking themselves. Taiga ends up screwing herself over. Ryuuji accidentally ruins his chances with Minorin. Minorin due to her edge phase winds up hurting everybody including herself. Ami does Ami things. Okada couldn't have written this better.
Everybody is fucking miserable at the end of this shit.
Cornbread78
Member
Well, I don't buy a ton of new games, so I made it work for me. I'm much more tolorable with my games and anine than most, but I have to really think about FF after the story presentation for chp. 10-13..
Admiral Woofington
Member
Has nobody done a Manga or Anime where theres a school full of main characters? Not even a short running gag Manga?
I'd read that. Imagine, the lead character joins a school as a transfer student, he bumps into a girl on the way there. He joins the class and the girl and him go eeeeeeeeh as they point at each other. Then they ask him to take a seat and he wants to sit next to the window by the back, but every chair is next to a window and at the back with every chair being taken by a detailed character looking out the window.
Then another transfer student joins in and the girl and him go eeeeeeeeh. That's when it's revealed every student in the class was a transfer student that joined that day. When they go to lunch to eat in the roof, every single student is in the roof.
Id read a one shot over that.
I'd read that. Imagine, the lead character joins a school as a transfer student, he bumps into a girl on the way there. He joins the class and the girl and him go eeeeeeeeh as they point at each other. Then they ask him to take a seat and he wants to sit next to the window by the back, but every chair is next to a window and at the back with every chair being taken by a detailed character looking out the window.
Then another transfer student joins in and the girl and him go eeeeeeeeh. That's when it's revealed every student in the class was a transfer student that joined that day. When they go to lunch to eat in the roof, every single student is in the roof.
Id read a one shot over that.
The law ending of Apocalypse is fucking hilarious.
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