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[citrus lump]

Residents in 51 Wisconsin counties (there are 72 total) approve of a plan to shoot feral cats. Feral cats are defined as any cat outside of city limits without a collar. So that means if your little fuzzy friend escapes for a weekend jaunt, he can be shot on sight. Their arguement is that the feral cats are killing millions of songbirds annually, and endangering them. If this passes, then they should also introduce a bill to kill beebee gun wielding children.

Discuss.

 

[bjork]

don't let your cat saunter out for the weekend jaunt naked, simple.

 

[ManDudeChild]

Inbred trailer trash. That definition is fucking mental.

 

[citrus lump]

don't let your cat saunter out for the weekend jaunt naked, simple.

Yes, but living with the hillbillies in Wisconsin, I know that they will shoot a cat with a collar and simply take it off the dead animal. It will almost be like some sort of trophy for them.

 

[explodet]

 

[Orin GA]

Who then will protect wisconsins greatest treasure? Cheese?!?!?!

 

[ManDudeChild]

Yes, but living with the hillbillies in Wisconsin, I know that they will shoot a cat with a collar and simply take it off the dead animal. It will almost be like some sort of trophy for them.

... that's horrible.

I remember a few months back one of my four cats (who WONT wear a collar) went on "walk about" for roughly two months. Although I live up in B.C., just the thought of someone with a missing pet that's like mine without a collar pisses me off to no end. I really hope something horrible happens to each and every person that voted for that bullshit.

 

[demon]

 

[Fragamemnon]

I'm mixed here-as a near-obsessive birdwatcher I understand why there is support for this, but it is inhumane.

Anyway, crossposted from a discussion a dkos where we got into this (quote below by me):

Feral cats are a big problem to songbird populations. That being said, the way to control the populations is to spay/neuter and increase funding for animal shelters and infuse money into cash-strapped humane societies, where, if the cat isn't adopted, it can at least die a nonviolent, painless death.

Even the head of the Wisconson Audubon Society doesn't think this is a good idea. As an avid (or obsessive, even) birdwatcher, I can understand the rationale behind the quick-fix, cost-free solution that this provides. Many millions of birds die slow, painful deaths from infected wounds inflicted by cats. That doesn't mean that cats should have to die the same way from gunshot wounds-it's just not right.

and later

Habitat destruction is a much more understood thing in these days than it once was. Yes, it's a big reason for long-term songbird population drops in some areas/species over the past 20 years. Protecting existing habitat is important and we have some damn fine groups and agencies doing that work in a responsible manner-and yes, they could do better, but that would mean more public cost to do so.

Feral cat kills, however, happen in urban/suburban/exurban areas, where designated wildlife areas like parks, greenways provide suitable habitat for the birds. Often times extraordinary measures like birdbox trails are in place to assist cavity nesting songbirds (such as the beloved Eastern Bluebird, in Wisconson's case) by providing the nesting habitat that is no longer readily available. In rural areas, it's all about the sheer scale of feral cat colonies-hundreds of cats are going to need to eat lot of stuff. And that means birds, mammals, reptiles, whatever they can eat.

So you go through all that work-setting aside parks and greenareas, building and monitoring birdboxes (tossing out starlings and house sparrows), etc, and then some feral cat comes and eats the songbirds. Bleh. Or entire rural areas are depopulated of small wildlife due to feral cat colonies (remember, feral cats are an INVASIVE PREDATORY SPECIES on ecosystems). Double bleh.

Let me stress that remark-feral cats, when introduced to an ecosystem, are an INVASIVE SPECIES. If you look at it that way, you can see why just shooting them has some merit in law-invasive species are generally considered detrimental to ecosystems, especially ones that introduce such remarkable predators as feral cats do. They are also systematically eliminated.

Again, I want to say that there has to be a better way. I'd say that the issue should be one of county and municipal law, though-a rural county might want to give that privlidge to landowners with feral cats on their property. Muncipalities might want to take a more "humane" approach through systemic spaying/neutering and accelerated termination of strays.

From a biologist/ecologist perspective that I'm approaching it in, they are no different than any other prolific invasive species, and should be contained and eliminated ASAP. I'm just not convinced that shooting is the right way to do it in all cases. I believe it is probably a good idea for larger rural colonies of cats, but not for urban/suburban cats, where animal control and neuter-and-release techniques can be used to reduce populations without killing someone's pet.

 

[Mrbob]

Is there a county by county breakdown on this?

 

[ManDudeChild]

I'm mixed here-as a near-obsessive birdwatcher I understand why there is support for this, but it is inhumane.

Anyway, crossposted from a discussion a dkos where we got into this (quote below by me):



and later



From a biologist/ecologist perspective that I'm approaching it in, they are no different than any other prolific invasive species, and should be contained and eliminated ASAP. I'm just not convinced that shooting is the right way to do it in all cases. I believe it is probably a good idea for larger rural colonies of cats, but not for urban/suburban cats, where animal control and neuter-and-release techniques can be used to reduce populations without killing someone's pet.

I can agree they need to be controlled, but murdering them just isn't the way, especially given the fact that even thsoe without collars could easily have other forms of identification (eg: inner ear tatoo, tag, etc). I think that more shelters and such, and perhaps more careful screening of pet owners and increased awareness of spaying and neutering is a far better solution than a bunch of slack jawed assholes shooting cats.

 

[citrus lump]

Is there a county by county breakdown on this?

Not that I could find, but I didn't look too hard either.

 

[Cauliflower of Love]

... that's horrible.

I remember a few months back one of my four cats (who WONT wear a collar)

*Mandude tries to put on collar

<cat> MEOW!

*Mandude walks away feeling defeated.

 

[ManDudeChild]

Yeah, pretty much. :lol All four are like that. I have two small ones that are only a couple pounds, and two large ones that are in the 24 - 26 pound range. One that went on walk about was the largest of the four.

 

[borghe]

I live in Wisconsin. I am in the southeastern part of the state but also visit relatives regularly in the central and northern parts of the state...

the cat situation is out of hand in those parts (thanks to heavy traffic, overdeveloped land, and the weight of a ton plus car it is quite under control in the southeastern portion of the state ) I mean you guys are thinking about your poor precious wittle putums.. that isn't what this bill is about. it's about the freaking farm cats who are breeding like 5 times a year, and those offspring who are breeding like 5 more times a year, etc. you go in some fields in rural central wisconsin and you can come across spots in fields with like 30-50 cats in a very small area. It isn't really anyone's faults, as the cats don't really belong to anyone (note, a farm cat isn't necessarily a cat owned by a farmer but just a cat who has taken up residence on the farm and the farmer is legally unable to "get rid of" it).

much like a rat owner is outraged to hear it is ok to kill rats, nevermind the city which is overrun with thousands of them, this is the same thing. It is one thing to sit here and look at your little precious wagging his tail and rubbing up against your leg. It is another thing to see about 20 of them run through the back yard at night and wiping out an entire tree of birds.

Fragamemnon is right. this isn't the most humane way to take care of the problem. unfortunately, my sister-in-law works for the milwaukee humane society and funding is way low at those and other area animal shelters. get out in the rural areas where a shelter might only have a dozen workers tops and capacity for less than 50 animals and it is pretty much left to either allow people to kill the cats, or pay someone to find the cats and then have nowhere to put them, thus pretty much having to euthanize them as well (which will cost yet even more money).

Also understand that like all such laws, this is only a temporary suggestion. After such time as it takes to get the population under control of course the bill would be repealed, as it has been in other areas and similar situations.

 

[Fragamemnon]

I can agree they need to be controlled, but murdering them just isn't the way, especially given the fact that even thsoe without collars could easily have other forms of identification (eg: inner ear tatoo, tag, etc).

I can understand this concern in suburban/urban areas. I don't think it applies well to one of the bigger problems in rural states, and that is feral cat colonies. Those animals were born feral and have no owners, and are an invasive predator species in the rural, undeveloped land that fosters wildlife. In those cases, they aren't much different than kudzu, and culling their populations and replacing the rodent control they provide with owl boxes or raptor platforms is a good idea.

 

[borghe]

frag - thanks for adding some sense into this thread. this isn't about rednecks wanting to kill cats. it is a serious problem. and as you are saying, it isn't about irresponsible owners. there are cats in the wild (thousands of them in wisconsin) just the same as squirrels and raccoons. and it is getting pretty serious here.

 

[ChronoMagnus]

I happen to live in Milwaukee, WI. There is no big cat problem here but when you get to the farm land (anything west of of Milwaukee) the cat problem is big. But the situation can get out of control. In Hartland (in waukesha county, just west of Milwaukee) my friends get cats and bury all the way up to their necks. They turn on their lawnmowers and go over the cats. Yes its cruel, but they say they were marked for death anyways.

As long as Wisconsin has Brett Favre, we'll be o.k

 

[borghe]

woot.. tosa here. lol..

anyway, no, it isn't that big of a problem in milwaukee, but we also have the shelter capacity (and road kill) to handle most feral cats.. but yeah, west of here and pretty much enything north and it is insane.

 

[Gek54]

I have a real hard time believing that "millions" of song birds are being killed every year in Wisconson.

 

[borghe]

I have a real hard time believing that "millions" of song birds are being killed every year in Wisconson.

it really doesn't matter what you believe though, does it?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...&u=/ap/20050413/ap_on_re_us/killing_wild_cats

Some experts estimate that 2 million wild cats roam Wisconsin, and the state says studies show feral cats kill 47 million to 139 million songbirds a year.

2 million cats. a cat can eat 2-5 birds a day and probably averages 1-5 a week. you do the math.

I am not saying this is the best way to handle it, but unless some of you guys can figure out how to infuse the shelter system with millions of dollars for added capacity and workstaff, there really are not a whole lot of other options.

 

[Instigator]

it really doesn't matter what you believe though, does it?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...&u=/ap/20050413/ap_on_re_us/killing_wild_cats



2 million cats. a cat can eat 2-5 birds a day and probably averages 1-5 a week. you do the math.

I am not saying this is the best way to handle it, but unless some of you guys can figure out how to infuse the shelter system with millions of dollars for added capacity and workstaff, there really are not a whole lot of other options.

How can they kill that much? Are those songbirds big, clumsy, flightless birds like the dodo or what?

 

[fennec fox]

As far as I am concerned, less cats is a wonderful thing and should immensely increase the quality of life across our great Midwest.

I would like to volunteer the services of my ferrets to aid in the hunting down of alien cats, if a call for such help is ever made.

 

[Vormund]

How can they kill that much? Are those songbirds big, clumsy, flightless birds like the dodo or what?

Feral cats can be bloody strong and swift. Also those songbirds might be clumsy or whatever...they're not used to the introduced species.

 

[borghe]

How can they kill that much? Are those songbirds big, clumsy, flightless birds like the dodo or what?

take your pick. could be chicks, could be clumsy, or could be off gathering when a cat happens upon the nest and waits.

the main problem here is you guys keep thinking about the cats in a domesticated situation. even outdoor cats are still generally domestic cats. we are talking about predatory feral cats here. not cats who happen to kill that bird and bring it to your doorstep, but cats who hunt and kill just like every other primarily carnivorous omnivore.

and vormund is right. housecats are not really native to the area.. at least wild feral ones. technically they aren't native to any of the US. So when you have housecats essentially becoming a wildlife species in an area, they don't have any natural predator and are now a natural predator to an animal that really didn't have a natural predator before either.

this is all pretty basic ecology..

but if you guys want to avoid this, here is a tip. donate to your local animal shelters. and not just a buck or two but lots of money. buy all of your animals from your local shelter. all of your supplies and food from your local shelter. etc. because the shelters are really the only other way these cats are going to be taken care of, though most shelters will probably euthanize the cats anyways..

 

[ManDudeChild]

take your pick. could be chicks, could be clumsy, or could be off gathering when a cat happens upon the nest and waits.

the main problem here is you guys keep thinking about the cats in a domesticated situation. even outdoor cats are still generally domestic cats. we are talking about predatory feral cats here. not cats who happen to kill that bird and bring it to your doorstep, but cats who hunt and kill just like every other primarily carnivorous omnivore.

and vormund is right. housecats are not really native to the area.. at least wild feral ones. technically they aren't native to any of the US. So when you have housecats essentially becoming a wildlife species in an area, they don't have any natural predator and are now a natural predator to an animal that really didn't have a natural predator before either.

But that's just it, I'm not thinking about the cats in a domesticated situation. I know feral cats can be down right evil. The problem is:

1. CLEARLY seperating domestic from feral. It's not as simple as a collar
2. Humans would be killing a species that it introduced to the area.

I can sympathise with the birds. They don't deserve to get slaughtered, but do the cats deserve to be blown away by a gun because of another one of our blunders? Now I can even support (albeit grudgingly) that some euthanasia might be needed, but surely something other than shooting. Reminds me of the shit shit that went on up here with the seals. If you HAVE to kill them, at least do it in a humane way. As said before, I think that some lives could be saved with more funding to shelters and neutering awareness programs, as you can atleast submit that the population of feral cats can most likely be linked up in some fashion to humans not more care to control breeding).

 

[borghe]

I can sympathise with the birds. They don't deserve to get slaughtered, but do the cats deserve to be blown away by a gun because of another one of our blunders? Now I can even support (albeit grudgingly) that some euthanasia might be needed, but surely something other than shooting. Reminds me of the shit shit that went on up here with the seals. If you HAVE to kill them, at least do it in a humane way. As said before, I think that some lives could be saved with more funding to shelters and neutering awareness programs, as you can atleast submit that the population of feral cats can most likely be linked up in some fashion to humans not more care to control breeding).

I get what you're saying, and I agree that this isn't the most humane way to deal with it, and agree that this is certainly our mistake and the cats are paying for it. and working with animal shelters is certainly the best way to deal with it... unfortunately it requires more than just talk and good wishes. These shelters are already severely underfunded and understaffed. This isn't just rhetoric or second hand news, this is direct from my sister in law who works at the Wisconsin Humane Society. They already don't have the manpower to keep up with things and now in even smaller parts of the state we expect those underfunded and understaffed shelters to go out and round up cats. Not only do we have to pay for that, then we have to pay for either sheltering these cats or euthanizing them, both of which are even further costly actions.

I am not insensitive to the dilemma of needing to clean up a mess that we caused. However, as people bicker and complain and fight, more songbirds are being killed. and the end result is either extinction (unlikely) or the birds leaving the area (likely) which then introduces even further ecosystem woes to the state.... so basically long story short, there needs to be something done NOW. If it is funding and whatnot to shelters, so be it.. but then where does that money come from?

 

[FightyF]

I think some people would be less averse to this if it didn't allow the everyday person to carry out population control. If there was an organization that did it in a controlled humane manner (Aushwitz for felines?), I'm thinking more people would support it.

Next thing you know some hick Wisconsinite will bar-b-q cats "because they can".

 

[ManDudeChild]

If there was an organization that did it in a controlled humane manner (Aushwitz for felines?), I'm thinking more people would support it.

... um ... I don't know what to say to this really. :lol

 

[borghe]

Next thing you know some hick Wisconsinite will bar-b-q cats "because they can".

this is moronic. first, there is no law saying you can't ewat a cat, and aside from the mung population(?) we don't do it regardless.

second, the fact alone that you brought auschweitz into this shows your relative ineptitude and ability to understand the scope of the situation.

 

[Drozmight]

they just need to introduce something to kill all the cats. Snakes!

 

[borghe]

they just need to introduce something to kill all the cats. Snakes!

lol... what the hell was that.. I think a simpsons episode where they kept introducing things to kill off the introduced wildlife.. lol....

pretty soon we have dinosaurs running around to kill off the elephants!!

 

[Spike Spiegel]

*plans stop in Wisconsin for next vacation*

...

Joking, of course. Really.

 

[FightyF]

MDC: Yeah I totally butchered it. Couldn't be bothered.

[quot]this is moronic. first, there is no law saying you can't ewat a cat, and aside from the mung population(?) we don't do it regardless.[/quote]

Actually I didn't mean for them to eat cats, but to torture them via a bar-b-que (note the 2 different ways I spell it).

second, the fact alone that you brought auschweitz into this shows your relative ineptitude and ability to understand the scope of the situation.

My comment about Awshvits has nothing do to with the situation, please read my post again! Maybe even 3 times!

 

[borghe]

lol.. I love how a law that has no more real impact than say, raising game limits on ducks or deer in a given season or putting down rat poison to curb varmint populations, now has people envisioning mobs of mongoloids out hunting and torturing cute little kitty cats who have strayed from home and now assuming other methods to torture and violate them.....

and you comment about auschweitz was inapprpriate just for the simple fact that you are comparing an ecological danger to the attempted genocide of hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

geez.. snakefish endanger the wildlife in northeastern america and it is ok to poison entire lakes.. but feral cats endanger the wildlife in the midwest and it is inhumane to do anything about it aside from put them in shelters and put them into good homes (which you can't do with feral animals by the way).

but yeah, I can see how wild animals being coralled up and gassed to death in a box is much more humane than putting them down with a single rifle shot to the head. :\

 

[citrus lump]

I dunno, I live in south central wisconsin- in green county to be exact - and it's just as

rural as any county in wisconsin. I certainly don't see gangs of feral cats around. In fact,

I would say the ratio for every one cat seen, I see thousands of birds. Birds that poop on

my car!!!!!!!!!! Plus, if anything the cats give hawks something else to eat. ;p

 

[FightyF]

and you comment about auschweitz was inapprpriate just for the simple fact that you are comparing an ecological danger to the attempted genocide of hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

Ok, read it a 4th time.

 

[Flynn]

*plans stop in Wisconsin for next vacation*

...

Joking, of course. Really.

I've got my eye on you, cat killer.