Witcher 3 downgrade arguments in here and nowhere else

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orochi91 said:
There seems to be a disconnect here.

The detractors aren't saying the game doesn't look good, it really does.

However, they are pointing out blatant downgrades, which runs contrary to CDPR claim of no downgrades.

CDPR lied and mislead.

It's literally that simple.



SaberEdge doing that pointless damage control.

The game still looks good, but CDPR straight up lied.
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You mean blatantly minor and highly localized changes that only arguably can be called downgrades at all.

And these same people are completely ignoring all the evidence of the larger number of areas that look the same in the recent builds, let alone the aspects that can arguably be called upgrades.

I'm still waiting on any evidence showing a generalized or overall downgrade.
 
dakun said:
all the years of seeing pre-alpha videos of games in development proves that wrong.. Games start out simply in graphical fidelity and are improved over time. Usually through improvements in hardware (PC) or just simple optimization
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This is complete rot for a number of companies. The way the industry works now is that you aim unbearably high for your VS, often scripting it so tightly that you can push it to look like a cutscene. Then you try and replicate that with actual gameplay. This is what happened with Bioshock Infinite. It's what's happened here.

And again: they owe you nothing. They changed it to make it actually run. It doesn't say FINAL FOOTAGE on the early videos - it says WORK IN PROGRESS. That's true. Ergo, stop whinging and just don't buy it if you hate the idea of it so much. But there's not a game in history that hasn't been downgraded slightly at some point in the process.
 
SaberEdge said:
You mean blatantly minor and highly localized changes that only arguably can be called downgrades at all.

And these same people are completely ignoring all the evidence of the larger number of areas that look the same in the recent builds, let alone the aspects that can arguably be called upgrades.

I'm still waiting on any evidence showing a generalized or overall downgrade.
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Saber, you've been shown several comparisons so far, yet the mental gymnastics you've employed to discard or discredit them is unreal.

Congrats, you aren't able to distinguish the downgrades in the game (to your credit, the game still looks good), that doesn't change the fact that there are some significant downgrades present in the game, which run contrary to what CDPR said.

There's no need for you to defend CDPR so vigorously, devs mislead all the time.

We just weren't expecting CDPR to do it this time.
 
Valnen said:
The reveal footage counts as advertisement.
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They even reused old footage in their recent trailers (like the burning village with the supposedly old design of the wild hunt king). Yeah it looks damn good but if it is not what I'm getting come May 19th stop using it as promo footage.
 
I didn't care about Watch Dogs and I won't care about Witcher 3's "downgrades." The fact games can look like this is just insane and satisfies my very low bar of graphical needs. I'm a gameplay fan for the most part and this is ticking those boxes.

That isn't to say don't call out developers and publishers for pulling bullshots but it doesn't need to be a centric point of discussion. If the game plays like it was billed then it's all good in my books.
 
Denton said:
I dunno, the game looks great to me.
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No, you do know; the downgrade is as plain as day.

NO ONE is arguing that the game doesn't look good, as that is not what this thread is about.

All these posts circumventing the topic and asserting that "it still looks awesome, yo" are about as relevant as a crudely drawn penis.
 
It still looks great, but things like this should always be pointed out to raise awareness.
This is no different than Watch Dogs or Dark Souls 2 to me.

And people who are writing "not this shit again" should be glad, that there is now a thread for this discussion and they can ignore this thread.
 
the foliage, lod, effects and lighting all look substantially worse now. no amt of compression/non identical images/diff TOD change that.

ozAzLD2.jpg


that is the exact same location at the exact same TOD and the difference is ginormous
 
mickcenary said:
No, you do know; the downgrade is as plain as day.

NO ONE is arguing that the game doesn't look good, as that is not what this thread is about.

All these posts circumventing the topic and asserting that "it still looks awesome, yo" are about as relevant as a crudely drawn penis.
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Why 'crudely' drawn though? Even a well drawn penis is not relevant, because none of the characters have it in-game. That pisses me off more than these downgrades! Arrrrrrgh!
 
This thread just proves that once again, as long as you personally like the game the people putting it out could shit on your face and people would let them off for it.

See: Dark Souls 2 false advertisement thread
 
I'm gonna have to fall on Chinner's side.

The art style changed drastically from reveal to release, which makes the technical differences (of which there are many) even more blatantly obvious. Lighting took a huge nosedive, the shading on assets almost appears nonexistent.

I still think it looks pretty good, but it's not in question that the game took a severe hit on the technical side during the development process.
 
Remij said:
People also need to remember that the PS4 and Xbox console specs most likely were not finalized when TW3 began development. PC being the lead platform with which the game began development resulted in the early trailers looking better. Things change during development, and it looks to me like the made appropriate sacrifices to have the game look and play well enough on consoles.

The game is still a beauty, and will most likely be the best looking game out (of it's kind for sure)

The screenshot thread will be glorious for sure

rejoice.png





It's not a counter argument... it's acceptance. People who are mad just need to get over it.
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So if some reviews tell you about the game's shortcomings or don't hand out 10/10 will you get over it or come here and discuss it in threads considering this is a forum?

Watch the people trying to squash this very topic be the first to come whining on the forums when their favorite game doesn't get the praise it deserves.
 
plasmawave said:
So now the argument is "I can't believe people care about the extra details"?
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No, it's like pointing to the following two screenshots and saying the game is massively upgraded because the old version lacks most of the flames, the specular highlights and vegetation.
m4I8BAi.jpg
fn2IttA.jpg


These kinds of incidental artistic changes are not grounds for downgrade claims and certainly not for the kinds of claims of a generalized downgrade we're hearing from some of you.

At best you could argue that that one particular corner in this massive open world is downgraded. But then you'd also have to recognize that areas like the one above have been upgraded. Another example would be the one below in which the newer version has adornments missing in the older version (such as the golden post cap on the throne):
Q1GyXYy.jpg
noKtOPQ.jpg


That's an "extra detail" missing in the old version that has been added to the new version. Going by the sloppy standards of the downgrade crew we could easily start a thread showing such localized upgrades and follow up by screaming "the game has been massively upgraded...the game has been massively upgraded...the game has been massively upgraded!"...ad infinitum.
 
icecold1983 said:
the foliage, lod, effects and lighting all look substantially worse now. no amt of compression/non identical images/diff TOD change that.

ozAzLD2.jpg


that is the exact same location at the exact same TOD and the difference is ginormous
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Same area but not the exact same spot as the trailers.
 
mickcenary said:
No, you do know; the downgrade is as plain as day.

NO ONE is arguing that the game doesn't look good, as that is not what this thread is about.

All these posts circumventing the topic and asserting that "it still looks awesome, yo" are about as relevant as a crudely drawn penis.
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Nah, some of the comparisons in the OP are moronic, with completely different scenes and daytime.
There is maybe one scene that has evidently changed geometry, the Novigrad one. But who knows how recent the nvidia screenshot was.
I will wait for the final game running on my PC and then make judgements.
 
Can't believe people thought CDP were above this, even when the signs were shown pre-release.

It's alright I'm sure the gameplay is fine, right?
 
Yeah, it doesn't look insanely good like those early shots, but as I'll be playing the game and not nitpicking every tiny detail, I really don't care.

D9JeUYT.jpg
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Oh God, since when does that asshole work at CD Projekt RED? Such in incredible dick back at the BioWare forums. He sure does know something about devs lying about their product (ME3). I can't take this guy seriously.
 
pa22word said:
This thread just proves that once again, as long as you personally like the game the people putting it out could shit on your face and people would let them off for it.

See: Dark Souls 2 false advertisement thread
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That kind of argument is always so stupid. All that has happened with this game is the visuals have been downgraded, nothing else has changed gameplay wise. So what if people like the game and don't really get bothered by these types of changes? Are we suppose to be so anal about game development and get upset and curse the pre-order gods?

People like games, and even with changes they like the games. It doesn't hurt you.
icecold1983 said:
so fire changes from 3d to 2d and smoke disappears if you look at a burning house from a different angle? plz aware me on where i can experience such a phenomenon in real life.
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I never said anything about the downgrade, just pointing out that the trailer screenshots were from a further distant of the burning villages.
 
There is a clear difference from the reveal trailer and what we got when it comes to atmosphere, draw distance and foliage in the game. Cdpr have done some improvements when it comes to models and the horse in the final version, i give them that. The game looks good no doubt but to say there is no downgrade is BS!
 
SaberEdge said:
No, it's like pointing to the following two screenshots and saying the game is massively upgraded because the old version lacks most of the flames, the specular highlights and vegetation.


These kinds of incidental artistic changes are not grounds for downgrade claims and certainly not for the kinds of claims of a generalized downgrade we're hearing from some of you.

At best you could argue that that one particular corner in this massive open world is downgraded. But then you'd also have to recognize that areas like the one above have been upgraded. Another example would be the one below in which the newer version has adornments missing in the older version (such as the golden post cap on the throne):


That's an "extra detail" missing in the old version that has been added to the new version. Going by the sloppy standards of the downgrade crew we could easily start a thread showing such localized upgrades and follow up by screaming "the game has been massively upgraded...the game has been massively upgraded...the game has been massively upgraded!"...ad infinitum.
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Um what? You realise you provided screenshots showing it was downgraded right? The trailer looks 100x better. Right down to the lighting
 
I can't be the only one that saw the early trailers and thought "There's no way the final shipping game will look that good, especially on consoles."
 
CryptiK said:
Um what? You realise you provided screenshots showing it was downgraded right? The trailer looks 100x better. Right down to the lighting
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Wtf, the new build clearly is upgraded in those shots unless you're blind in both eyes. Maybe you got mixed up about which ones are the old ones? I hope so.
 
icecold1983 said:
the foliage, lod, effects and lighting all look substantially worse now. no amt of compression/non identical images/diff TOD change that.

ozAzLD2.jpg


that is the exact same location at the exact same TOD and the difference is ginormous
Click to expand...

Although the scenes are not 100% like for like, the difference in visuals is very, very apparent.
 
I find it odd how NeoGAF is ultra defensive when it comes to this stuff. Its a huge downgrade that I have been afraid to bring up because of the culture of this site. The knee jerk (well don't buy it-still looks awesome to me-you are nitpicking) responses seem so out of place for a videogame forum. I mean this is the stuff we obsess and like to talk about. The game looks no where near the original reveal trailors, and that effects the immersion and draw of the game for everyone. Glad there is a thread.
 
nick nacc said:
I find it odd how NeoGAF is ultra defensive when it comes to this stuff. Its a huge downgrade that I have been afraid to bring up because of the culture of this site. The knee jerk (well don't buy it-still looks awesome to me-you are nitpicking) responses seem so out of place for a videogame forum. I mean this is the stuff we obsess and like to talk about. The game looks no where near the original reveal trailors, and that effects the immersion and draw of the game for everyone. Glad there is a thread.
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Brand loyalty, same people might have jumped on Dark Souls 2 or Watch Dogs downgrades like nobodies business.
 
Always find it strange what people get mad at. Seems like this game and Watchdogs got tons of hate but just about every AAA game gets a downgrade
 
In my opinion, after seeing as many screenshots and videos as possible, the only area where I can argue CDPR actually scaled back the tech for tech reasons is maybe the foliage. Pretty much every other visual difference I've seen between 2014 and now has been an artistic decision, and that'as AFTER you ignore the dubious comparisons.

Most of the comparison screenshots I've seen compare one slightly compressed screenshot to a heavily artifacted YouTube capture, or compare two shots in the same location but at completely different times of day. Just the addition, removal, or change of a single light source can completely change a scene to the point where a 1:1 comparison is impossible.

Aside from that, the one really obvious change you can see between 2014 and now is that sometime late last year CDPR got rid of the sharpening filter, which was a very unpopular feature of Witcher 2. That alone gives Witcher 3 a much softer, almost painting-lite look. I consider that a purely artistic choice, and a matter of preference. Some people seem to prefer the heavily sharpened look. Aside from that CDPR probably also did a lot to the color balance. The shot of Novigrad from the E3 2014 gameplay reveal trailer almost looks like it has a green filter all over it.

I'm also gonna throw this observation out there: The gameplay reveal, VGX, and Sword of Destiny trailers are all mostly made up of extremely short, likely heavily cherry-picked shots. Like half the shots were of real-time cut scenes too. The Elder Blood trailer is ALL real time cut scenes. We have no way of knowing what kinds of flaws the actual gameplay graphics had back then. Judging by the original 2013 screenshots it probably looked very similar to how it does today.

Lastly, I think a guy from CDRP, maybe during a Gamescom or something a while back, let it slip that the old builds we saw around E3 2014 were running on a Titan.

In any case, the changes we've seen here are nothing like Dark Souls 2, which undeniably had an entire dynamic lighting system removed from it (and that was one of my most hyped games of last year).
 
nick nacc said:
I find it odd how NeoGAF is ultra defensive when it comes to this stuff. Its a huge downgrade that I have been afraid to bring up because of the culture of this site. The knee jerk (well don't buy it-still looks awesome to me-you are nitpicking) responses seem so out of place for a videogame forum. I mean this is the stuff we obsess and like to talk about. The game looks no where near the original reveal trailors, and that effects the immersion and draw of the game for everyone. Glad there is a thread.
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While I try not to place that great of an emphasis on graphics, I do think that downgrades should be called out whenever they happen. Publishers need to stop being in the habit of falsely marketing to consumers and winning pre-orders from it. Controversies like this are necessary so to dissuade publishers from repeating their bullshots next time they advertise their games.

From what I've seen of Witcher 3, I remain excited and I'm positive it's going to be a great game. But that doesn't mean I'm ignorant to the downgrade. Hopefully people won't feel the need of obsessively defending a game they love simply out of some misplaced sense of loyalty. It's possible to criticize and look forward to a game at the same time.
 
I'm a little amazed at the mental gymnastics that are going on in this thread. Saying "there was no downgrade" or "this comparison is stupid" doesn't change the evidence I see provided through screenshots. I love the Witcher and I will gladly play 3, but come on now, there obviously either was a downgrade or the game never looked that good and this is basically WatchDogs all over again.
 
enigmatikone said:
I can't be the only one that saw the early trailers and thought "There's no way the final shipping game will look that good, especially on consoles."
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I thought it looked great but completely plausible on a high end PC.

What made me expect the PC version would ultimately maintain that graphical level is CDProjekt Red's own insistence that it would and because of their own reputation as being honest and transparent.
 
scoobidoo112 said:
I'm a little amazed at the mental gymnastics that are going on in this thread. Saying "there was no downgrade" or "this comparison is stupid" doesn't change the evidence I see provided through screenshots. I love the Witcher and I will gladly play 3, but come on now, there obviously either was a downgrade or the game never looked that good and this is basically WatchDogs all over again.
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This shit will continue to happen, as long as people continue to turn a blind eye.
 
Whether there is an actual downgrade or not, the difference in tone and attitude between accusations toward this game and something like Watch Dogs is like night and day. When the downgrade for the latter happened, people were practically baying for blood, but when it happens to CD Projekt it's met with a response of mass denial and agitated "oh ffs" comments. I guess the determining factor for how highly a downgradathon rates on the Holy Fuck Shitstorm scale is which developer is making the game.
 
Yep. That's a fucking downgrade alright. But I am looking forward to it anyway.
Everyone wanting people to stop mentioning downgrades, I don't get it. If you're looking forward to a game this much, what should it matter that people are seeing downgrades from the original showcased version of the product?

Yes there are downgrades. Yes this should be discussed; no downgrades is always better than downgrades. Yes the developers should be put on the spot for it.

Does this change how much I'm looking forward to it? Absolutely not.
 
Acquiescence said:
Whether there is an actual downgrade or not, the difference in tone and attitude between accusations toward this game and something like Watch Dogs is like night and day. When the downgrade for the latter happened, people were practically baying for blood, but when it happens to CD Projekt it's met with a response of mass denial and agitated "oh ffs" comments. I guess the determining factor for how highly a downgradathon rates on the Holy Fuck Shitstorm scale is which developer is making the game.
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so we should start sending death threats then?
 
HowZatOZ said:
http://i.imgur.com/ozAzLD2.jpg
Same area but not the exact same spot as the trailers.
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That doesn't look like the same area at all. Just because there are burning buildings in both shots does not mean it's the same area. He's making a huge assumption there and I'd be willing to bet he's wrong. The buildings look completely different and when you see what is happening in that segment of the trailer it does not at all appear to be the same burning village with the Wild Hunt that we have already compared. This is almost certainly a different area with burning buildings.

In any case, it's easy to see that the lighting is different between the two. The sky and the entire scene is brighter in the newer shot, which absolutely is going to affect the way the fire looks. I think this will become plainly obvious once people play the game and see these kinds of scenes under different lighting conditions.
 
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