entremet
Member
So it took electing an egomaniac from their own party them to finally consider governing?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/04/...n-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
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With Few Wins in Congress, Republicans Agree on Need to Agree
- Thread starter entremet
- Start date
So it took electing an egomaniac from their own party them to finally consider governing?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/04/...n-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
Electric Eye
Banned
Translation: We over exposed ourselves on just how useless and lousy a party we really are and have run out of people to blame because we hold all chambers of government. Help.
The democrats aren't going to just up and help you when you'll be back to demonizing the left the first chance you get. Get bent.
The democrats aren't going to just up and help you when you'll be back to demonizing the left the first chance you get. Get bent.
Really, the issue isn't that the GOP can't agree per say, it's that they push agendas that are widely unpopular and unwanted. They've managed to gather a lot of power by demonizing the opposition, but now that they're in power people are like, "Woah, you want to do what!?"
They are great marketers for a product that few actually want
They are great marketers for a product that few actually want
PeakPointMatrix
Member
Yeah I'm sure the dems can't wait to sign tax cuts for the wealthy.
Turns out when your entire existence is based on opposing all forms of progress, you tend to attract a rogue's gallery of bigots who (gasp) don't actually like or respect one another, and can't agree on anything.
And then you realize you might need to work with the other 50% of your colleagues who you have blamed for everything for the last decade and a half.
If they're serious it's gonna take more than just being like "ok let's work together." They need to make genuine reparations to restore trust because if I was a democrat I wouldn't trust the GOP as far as I could throw them. That party will throw anyone under the bus any time, and it's going to take a lot for their efforts at bipartisanship to appear genuine.
Oh and maybe while they're at it, they could stop proposing such obviously hostile legislation if they want level-headed lawmakers to take it seriously.
And then you realize you might need to work with the other 50% of your colleagues who you have blamed for everything for the last decade and a half.
If they're serious it's gonna take more than just being like "ok let's work together." They need to make genuine reparations to restore trust because if I was a democrat I wouldn't trust the GOP as far as I could throw them. That party will throw anyone under the bus any time, and it's going to take a lot for their efforts at bipartisanship to appear genuine.
Oh and maybe while they're at it, they could stop proposing such obviously hostile legislation if they want level-headed lawmakers to take it seriously.
Evil Monkey DTT
Banned
I wouldn't be so sure, democrats have a history of sucking up to people they dont have to.
I find this hard to believe while their stance continues to be "Democrats have always been partisan and never bipartisan" especially in regards to healthcare. Hell even McCain had to get that jab in there while preaching about the need for bipartisanship. Republicans looking to seem like the reasonable party comes across as nothing but a play. They can't get anything done while having the most power to do so in decades. So what really is their options here but this?
Man Called Aerodynamics
Member
This. I don't care if it's hypocritical, Republicans spent 8 years being the party of nothing but obstruction, now it's our turn. Until Trump is out of the White House, Dems' answer to every overture should be an unequivocal No.
I care. Not that you asked. But we need a functioning government. The GOP is pondscum. But, they represent a % of morons that also pay taxes. We need to compromise, which is what democracy is, to get legislation passed.
It is so pathetic that dems are actually proving to have more power, with Republicans in control. I just hope that along with compromise, they make it well known how useless the Republican party is at every step.
Don't just agree to sit down and move on. We need the morons that the GOP represents to fully understand their party is dog shit and that their values have no place in a civil world.
I disagree. If Republican's truly are interested in governing in a responsible, adult manner, I fully support bipartisan work in making our country better.
chekhonte
Member
I agree. More than ever we need to find common ground. This partisan standoff needs to be addressed.
genericsuperhero
Member
Maybe this is just the beginning. Having such a polarizing president is bringing a new era in bipartisan politics to the table. Maybe.
Aw, who am I kidding. The GOP will stab the dems in the back first chance they get.
chekhonte
Member
It's genuinely my hope. The next person to run for president who emphatically talks about the need to reach across the isle has my vote presuming I believe them.
Gentleman Jack
Member
"Oh right there are midterm elections..."
TheCochese
Banned
I agree. If we can come to some sort of solution where ACA is mended and better, I don't care about tallying wins and losses.
Man Called Aerodynamics
Member
I'd love to live in that world too. But this possibility is fundamentally incompatible with a party led by the current occupant of the White House.
BronsonLee
Member
Yeah I'm not sure they're going to be able to agree on much
An oxymoronic statement if I've ever seen one. Also a succinct description of the problem with the Republican Party.
Electric Eye
Banned
They want Dems to work with their leaders? One is a Randian psychopath and the other a sewer tortoise that made it his mission to obstruct the last competent leader this country has had in a very long time and just spends the past 6 months trying to make it easier for Americans to die. It was the republicans that broke government under this leadership. Replace those leaders or you will get nothing from Dems because they will catch hell from their voters.
Political used carsalesman tactics. Same way Trump go the presidency overly being positive to their base and not telling the truth which they have done for a long time.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
That's exactly the problem, the vast majority of things the GOP wants are literally opposite.
I don't know of any current widely supported moderate positions in the GOP.
It's currently all talk.
So you have to meet in the middle. And work on a strategy to get the majority again. And push their ass backwards ideas away for good.
We aren't going to get 0% discrimination for example. But a lowered % will be doable, for now, along with riders of progress along the way. Plus a heavy propaganda campaign to illustrate why the gop is harmfull to its base around the clock. Bots, trolls. Everything.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Fuck off GOP. You put yourselves in this situation.
Widdle Puppy
Banned
Don't trust the gop
Let them own it, win 2018 and steamroll single payer.
Let them own it, win 2018 and steamroll single payer.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
You could technically get 3 'moderate' GOP senators on board and pass something. But that requires Turtle being replaced first. Then you have to deal with the clusterfuck in the house that passed the disaster of a healthcare bill.
Edit: Trump probably won't sign anything passed by a majority of Dems anyway. Would look bad to his shrinking base.
jimmypython
Member
Trump: I did what Obama failed to do. I unified the congress and turned this dysfunctional mess around. #TiredofWinning #DrainTheSwamp #MAGA
LOL
LOL
Electric Eye
Banned
They want to cooperate after failing to ruin people's lives...
They have gotten so bad at their jobs that they don't even know how to ruin lives anymore and so they are reaching across the isle for help on ruining lives. That's what this is. They will never allow a single progressive idea be part of their agenda their party over country mentality won't allow it. They just want a few extra votes to get their agenda done with the fake cover of "cooperation".
They have gotten so bad at their jobs that they don't even know how to ruin lives anymore and so they are reaching across the isle for help on ruining lives. That's what this is. They will never allow a single progressive idea be part of their agenda their party over country mentality won't allow it. They just want a few extra votes to get their agenda done with the fake cover of "cooperation".
Obama constantly "reached across the aisle" and you see where that got him. The problem is the minute there's a Democratic President all of these overtures of bipartisanship from even small numbers of GOP members (none of which were willing to talk this way when Obama was still in office btw) will go out the window for the GOP to accomplish the goal of that President having only one term . . . because the GOP has no interest in governing and are bold-faced liars, hypocrites, and assholes.
Barack Obama ran on this. He then wasted a ton of time trying to work with a bunch of people who were hellbent on fucking him over.
Do you really want legislation passed that discriminates and hurts poor people. Because that's what's being proposed.....
All valid points. I just can't swallow paying my hard earned money to these fucksticks for not doing their jobs.
For the greater eventual good, dems need to fight for decent compromise that kills less people than the gop wants to. It's fun to say obstruct them like they did us! But again, we are paying these jackoffs. Why are we if they aren't doing what they are elected to do?
Now if dems really try, and trump doesn't move on it because he's a manchild, why are we funding the government with our money?
Without the shadow of a doubt yes. Democrats too, have passed laws that discriminates and hurts poor people. No one values poor people. This isn't a both sides argument, it's the state of things in our nation right now. GOP wants to hurt a large number. If we can get legislation functioning with a lesser number, combined with a serious strategy to weaken the Republican party, it will be well worth it. That specific combination. Not just compromising values. It's a long game, politics. And unfortunately we have other tax payers that want to hurt their own poor selves and others. The Republicans base, wants them to destroy lives. They cheer about it.
If compromise is impossible, then let me ask you, why do we have this government? It is clearly broken, and you're sinking billions into it as a tax payer. We all are.
I agree the republican views don't operate well for the health of people. But that is exactly why they got voted into office. We can't just ignore that, or we can. And nothing gets done while they try every cheap trick to kill healthcare.
Im totally open to other ideas to get legislation passed, and our government functioning. I'm just throwing this out as a option, that has a goal of enhancing the quality of life later down the line. We ducked ourselves this election. There has to be some pain before we realize what not to do next time. That compromise seems like the pain to endure.
Compromising with a shithead's opinions just makes them seem reasonable.
Clearly the Democrats should not provide one vote for any healthcare bill that results in less people being covered than the ACA.
Obama bent over in ways that only Steve Bannon could to appease the GOP and reach a compromise and they told him to get lost. Hell Michelle was like what are you doing with (I can't find the interview but Obama gave an interview where he mentioned offhand that Michelle wondered why he felt the need to reach across the aisle). I hope the next Dem president is competent and gets pretty much unfettered power and gives the GOP the middle finger they deserve.
Man Called Aerodynamics
Member
Right now I am paying my representatives to defend me, and this country, from Trump. If the best they can do is run out the clock until we have a president (of either party) who is not a dangerous incompetent at best and a collaborator with a hostile foreign government at worst, then I'm all right with that. No normalization.
They can provide nothing. And the GOP will continue to ruin lives in every imaginable way possible. If it's a numbers game, and compromise reduces the numbers. I think it's worth a shot. Their base is delusional. Anything makes them seem reasonable with a 247 propaganda network. So I can't worry about that perception. I can worry about an actual functioning government that I'm paying for.
The alternative of fuck them, I'm afraid fucks us.
We don't have to use loaded phrases like normalizing. This is politics. This is our country. Pretending these things aren't a palpable reality got us a surprise victory for bigots. These are the people who elect represenation. They are hateful.
Running the clock allows them to harm more people by their action, and inaction. I hope I am wrong about that bit. But they've got too much to actually do, to provide for this nation. It's hard to just see nothing happen except negative options for 4 to 8 years, as a good thing. Meanwhile, other nations will develop their economies and quality of life exponentially.
It's a tough decision for sure when you really think about it. But as a minority, I know the world isn't going to be perfect for me or people like me. I just think it will hurt less folks, and illustrate that even with opposing views, the Democrats saved the country from disaster for the non GOP morons who didn't show up to vote, etc.
I could be wrong about it.
My opinion on any proposals to fix the ACA, be they conservative or democrat is this: does it reduce the number of unemployed and reduce or at least keep premiums on the same track they have been.
I don't care who sponsors a bill like that be they Republicans, Democrats or whoever. Will that happen? Doubtful. But that's my position.
What, are we gonna fall for this shit again? Since the 80s Democrats have been trying to meet Republicans in the middle and they just push all of us to the right. Anytime we give them an olive branch, they chew it up and spit it back at us. The spent nearly a decade obstructing our government and downright calling Democrats as anti-american and Terrorist sympathizers, even going as far as pushing violent rhetoric against us. They made it their goal to smear Obama over every little thing and are constancy trying to destroy his legacy.
Now they want to work with us, after they failed to pass a law that was going to kill and uninsured millions of Americans? After they placed their full support on an orange thin skinned neo-fascist lite? After the years of failure to work with us and painting us like a cancer, the anti-christ, the literal incarnation of evil itself?
No. Just no. This has gone on far enough and I refuse to let them walk all over us again, for the umpteenth time, for the sake of bipartisanship and moral high ground. They make the first move this time; no lip-service, no promises, nothing but pure action, then we can talk.
Now they want to work with us, after they failed to pass a law that was going to kill and uninsured millions of Americans? After they placed their full support on an orange thin skinned neo-fascist lite? After the years of failure to work with us and painting us like a cancer, the anti-christ, the literal incarnation of evil itself?
No. Just no. This has gone on far enough and I refuse to let them walk all over us again, for the umpteenth time, for the sake of bipartisanship and moral high ground. They make the first move this time; no lip-service, no promises, nothing but pure action, then we can talk.
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
But they have also proven they will continue to push those agendas just like they did with healthcare regardless of public opinion changing.
I mean healthcare basically went like this:
GOP: We'll repeal Obamacare!
*People use Obamacare for a bit*
People: Actually this isn't that bad.
GOP: We'll repeal it! We promised you!
People: No, honestly, it's fine, maybe just add some improvements.
GOP: No we promised you we're going to repeal it and we will.
People: No, seriously, we don't...
GOP: NO WE'RE GOING TO FUCKING REPEAL IT WE PROMISED YOU WE WON'T GO BACK ON THAT.
It is such an absurd situation I still don't believe it's reality. The GOP apparently can't come to grips with the fact that the public mostly favors the ACA. It just hurts their egos that much.
They spent so long playing obstructionist and trying to abolish it that they forget this was the plan they originally championed.
Don't worry.
The Republicans don't plan on working with the Democrats.
They plan on blaming the Democrats. They have no answers so you go back to what works for you and got you where you are.
I can see the ads now. We wanted to save you from Obamacare but the Democrat Communists insisted on including access to abortion clinics and insurance for people of color! We had to take a stand to protect the people who got us here!
Passing a healthcare bill that covers less people is more harmful than passing no healthcare bill.
The Public hated the ACA BECAUSE of the GOP. They made the public hate it by associating with Obama and it became a rallying point to get the GOP back in office. Though obviously there are some concerns about premiums, but again, the GOP made sure of higher premiums when they kept undermining the program.
Then people were left with the reality once Obama was gone that the GOP's real goal was just to take insurance away from the people, it had nothing to do with the ACA and this caused people to realize that maybe the ACA isn't all that bad compared to basically nothing.
It's like the GOP was playing a game, then they forgot that it was supposed to be just a game. You got their votes which was the point. Then they for some reason became convinced that the people actually wouldn't mind if healthcare was taken or way or replaced with a facade. They bought their own shit. You can get people riled up but if you start actually messing with their lives, they are going to notice.
Yup, they're just frantically trying to get "wins" so they don't appear to be complete failures to their constituents.