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With Rare coming back in a big way recently, what do you think they are doing next?

SimonM7

Member
I wonder if switching Rare's status back to making traditional games and the drumming up of excitement for their past franchises necessarily means they'll work on those themselves.

Killer Instinct started happening when Rare was still the designated Kinect driver, but it turned out very successful. If it still holds true that Rare want to look forward and create new games rather than re-tread their steps, something like a Battletoads - if given a traditional revival - could probably be better served in someone else's hands.

There are just so many properties at Rare that don't necessarily need Rare to develop them. Especially if they're looking to be more of the same. That's almost smarter to make a Retro Studios/Metroid Prime style proposition, really.

But for Rare themselves, I think Microsoft had it all wrong when they made them explicitly be the "family/kid" developer initially. I don't think kid games play to kids now anyway, at least not in a way MS need to invest in. I think Rare's games always have an approachability about them, but at Nintendo they were still an ever so slightly more "edgy" alternative. I think they have two games going for them still, and that's a flexibility and somewhat inherent charm, and some IP that really strike a chord with ~25-30 year olds now.

I think it's important that MS don't try to pigeonhole them into filling a "kid demographic", but rather letting them do basically whatever they want. It may not make short term financial sense, but I think it's a great resource for just scoring a lot of points with gamers if Rare just get to make compelling games, whatever that may entail.

And again. As long as quality is kept high, if Rare don't feel excited about making a traditional sequel to an old game, have some sort of back and forth with them and let someone else develop it. People like Killer Instinct thanks to a mix of liking KI from before, and liking KI now because it's a really solid fighting game. I think the same would hold true for a Banjo that someone else does.
 

Maximilian E.

AKA MS-Evangelist
I think and hope that Rare can function as a counter weight the heavy focus on FPS that MS has.

I mean, yeah, Halo 5 is looking nice and Gears has some followers etc etc but also all the 3rd party stuff like CoD, rainbow six and etc. Sometimes it feels like there are too many FPS and that the focus is mostly on these types of games.

It would be nice to see if Rare can work on other stuff than FPS (or at least, try another take on it, if Rare wanted to do it).

So for me, I would like Rare to do Rare stuff :)
 

RK128

Member
I wonder if switching Rare's status back to making traditional games and the drumming up of excitement for their past franchises necessarily means they'll work on those themselves.

Killer Instinct started happening when Rare was still the designated Kinect driver, but it turned out very successful. If it still holds true that Rare want to look forward and create new games rather than re-tread their steps, something like a Battletoads - if given a traditional revival - could probably be better served in someone else's hands.

There are just so many properties at Rare that don't necessarily need Rare to develop them. Especially if they're looking to be more of the same. That's almost smarter to make a Retro Studios/Metroid Prime style proposition, really.

But for Rare themselves, I think Microsoft had it all wrong when they made them explicitly be the "family/kid" developer initially. I don't think kid games play to kids now anyway, at least not in a way MS need to invest in. I think Rare's games always have an approachability about them, but at Nintendo they were still an ever so slightly more "edgy" alternative. I think they have two games going for them still, and that's a flexibility and somewhat inherent charm, and some IP that really strike a chord with ~25-30 year olds now.

I think it's important that MS don't try to pigeonhole them into filling a "kid demographic", but rather letting them do basically whatever they want. It may not make short term financial sense, but I think it's a great resource for just scoring a lot of points with gamers if Rare just get to make compelling games, whatever that may entail.

And again. As long as quality is kept high, if Rare don't feel excited about making a traditional sequel to an old game, have some sort of back and forth with them and let someone else develop it. People like Killer Instinct thanks to a mix of liking KI from before, and liking KI now because it's a really solid fighting game. I think the same would hold true for a Banjo that someone else does.

I have that thinking too; Replay was to highlight games that created their legacy while their future project of Sea of Thieves is a mixture of new ideas they have alongside capturing the dream of, well, Project Dream from decades back :).

With Killer Instinct and Conker in Project Spark alongside the Battletoads stage/boss in Shovel Knight, its clear that Microsoft and Rare are more then okay with giving the keys to their IP to other studios interested in working with them.

That is why I listed in the OP a number of team-ups; 343 would give Perfect Dark a very interesting perspective while allowing that team to take a break from Halo for a bit, Insomniac/Sanzaru would be a solid pick for a new Banjo game, Battletoads would be an amazing fit with Yatch Club Games or WayForward, ect.

That's why I'm so positive for Rare's future; not just because they have more freedom to make the stuff they want to make but also due to other studios having shots at making games using Rare IP.

If the pitches are great and Rare is cool with it, why not let other studios play with Rare IP :)?
 

SimonM7

Member
I think and hope that Rare can function as a counter weight the heavy focus on FPS that MS has.

Yeah, totally. Once I'm actually playing something, the fact that games feel different alleviate this, but watching an MS conference.. there.. there ssssure is a lot of shooting.

To tie in with what I was rambling about in the other post, I think something like Perfect Dark could do well going to another developer, too. There are some really obvious great ideas in PD that carry over into the somewhat unfortunate PDZ but remain good there. The weapons and gadgets unlocking different paths through a level, getting a late game item and replaying an earlier mission in a new way. Difficulty modes adding objectives in addition to modifying enemy behavior and gear. Those things you could just throw at a different developer and have them make a great Perfect Dark.

There are some bordering on sweatshoppy things that would be genuinely cool to have, but mmmay be a little wasted on Rare unless they genuinely want to do them. Especially with their tendency to overreach and maybe miss the thing people go into a new "Banjo" or "Perfect Dark" expecting.
 

Shang

Member
I definitely think we're getting a new Battletoads game. MS has been pushing it in a big way.

Rare Replay spoiler
Kevin Bayliss suggests they should make a new Battletoads game at the end of the "Making of Battletoads" video.

Someone also mentions in the Conker feature that
they are not the people to make a game like Conker's Bad Fur Day, as their tastes have changed and they don't want to retread the first game
 

Shiggy

Member
Are we sure they have 4 teams? A look at the Rare Replay credits would then imply that the Sea of Thieves team must be very small, which I personally doubt.
 

SimonM7

Member
Someone also mentions in the Conker feature that
they are not the people to make a game like Conker's Bad Fur Day, as their tastes have changed and they don't want to retread the first game

I think Conker's Bad Fur Day is a pretty singular game anyway. Perhaps a Grabbed by The Ghoulies style port of Live & Reloaded with the censorship removed and missing sequences added back in could be a compelling enough move to sate some of the modern Conker demand.
 
Are we sure they have 4 teams? A look at the Rare Replay credits would then imply that the Sea of Thieves team must be very small, which I personally doubt.

they said it in a video of a tour of their building.


OT: JFG reboot/remake made by the Coalition/Rare
 

Shiggy

Member
they said it in a video of a tour of their building.


OT: JFG reboot/remake made by the Coalition/Rare

I remember Craig Duncan mention that the two teams are in two different barns, but not that they have four teams. Care to send me a direct link?

It's true that they have 4 barns, but they are also much smaller than at their peak.
 
Rare made a come back with a collection of old games and an unproven IP?

Probably should hold your horses and see if Sea of Thieves is actually good first.
 
I remember Craig Duncan mention that the two teams are in two different barns, but not that they have four teams. Care to send me a direct link?

It's true that they have 4 barns, but they are also much smaller than at their peak.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLi_-3ldug4

all he really says is that they got 4 development studios if they do got 4 teams then the other 2 teams that arent working on SoT and Rare Replay must be really small.
 

Maximilian E.

AKA MS-Evangelist
Yeah, totally. Once I'm actually playing something, the fact that games feel different alleviate this, but watching an MS conference.. there.. there ssssure is a lot of shooting.

To tie in with what I was rambling about in the other post, I think something like Perfect Dark could do well going to another developer, too. There are some really obvious great ideas in PD that carry over into the somewhat unfortunate PDZ but remain good there. The weapons and gadgets unlocking different paths through a level, getting a late game item and replaying an earlier mission in a new way. Difficulty modes adding objectives in addition to modifying enemy behavior and gear. Those things you could just throw at a different developer and have them make a great Perfect Dark.

There are some bordering on sweatshoppy things that would be genuinely cool to have, but mmmay be a little wasted on Rare unless they genuinely want to do them. Especially with their tendency to overreach and maybe miss the thing people go into a new "Banjo" or "Perfect Dark" expecting.

I agree! Just too many shooters..
Those Rare concepts made me a bit "sad" because they looked interesting but also a bit different from what others were doing.

And somehow it feels like this is what Rare wants to do, they want to be different, do different stuff. And the fact that they are european, helps also I think.. with other mentality, other mindset.. no need to make shooters the whole time unless there is a different twist to it.

The in the end, MS first party needs diversity and I hope that Rare can be that group that expands gaming genres for MS.
 

daTRUballin

Member
Some Kinect nonsense whilst Microsoft farms out the ip they got from the Rare acquisition to other more capable studios.

Edit: Oh in addition to Kinect nonsense they will probably make some Xbox One/Windows 10 F2P nonsense.

Is this a post from 2012?

You Kinect Sports 2.0 and Rare Replay count as a "big way?"

Rare is an also-ran feeding of nostalgia right now.

What about Sea of Thieves? And what the hell is Kinect Sports 2.0?
 

RedAssedApe

Banned
aB3drKL.png

michaelangelo's a party dude
 

He doesn't mention what the other two teams are doing. I would imagine that one of them is doing production work on Killer Instinct and possibly functions as an outsourcing studio. But there's no mention at what the other studio is up too.

Rare did have a mobile studio for quite a few years throughout Microsoft's ownership, and that studio did work with Nintendo on some DS titles. But is that studio still around?

As for Rare... I wouldn't say that they are back in a big way yet, but the change in direction that their studios have been going in is encouraging. I was really hoping for a Banjo or Battletoads remake announcement this year, but I guess that is not going to happen. But who knows if these games may still be in development?
 

Alx

Member
I remember there were crazy rumours near the X1 launch of Rare developing a racing game, because they were hiring people from Codemasters and other teams specialized in the genre. Do we know what happened to those ?
 

Tntnico

Member
The pirate MMO is pretty much the last thing any Rare fan was asking for so I don't see how they're back at all.

I remember reading the same comments when Viva Pinata was announced and it ended up being one of their greatest game !

That fact is that Rare isn't very good with their sequels, but all their new IP are always great new experiences.

So I'm happy they work on something they really want to do with Sea of Thieves ! Just look at the @AskCaptainBones Twitter account, it's pure Rare fun everyday !

And if it ends up being a F2P, I'm not worried at all because Killer Instinct and Fable Legends handle that in a good way. Rare and Microsoft are always listening their fans if they go the F2P route, it won't be Farmville or Pay2Win nonsense.
 

Leflus

Member
My wish is that the Rare Replay team moves on to work on retro revivals of some of the IPs in the collection. They don't need a massive AAA team to make a new Battletoads sidescroller, for instance.

I remember there were crazy rumours near the X1 launch of Rare developing a racing game, because they were hiring people from Codemasters and other teams specialized in the genre. Do we know what happened to those ?
It was speculation based on Lucid dreams with Rare side effects.

Rare should make a mascot racer though. Either as a revival of The Fast and the Furriest or as a reboot of R.C. Pro-Am.
 

Shiggy

Member
He doesn't mention what the other two teams are doing. I would imagine that one of them is doing production work on Killer Instinct and possibly functions as an outsourcing studio. But there's no mention at what the other studio is up too.

Rare did have a mobile studio for quite a few years throughout Microsoft's ownership, and that studio did work with Nintendo on some DS titles. But is that studio still around?

As for Rare... I wouldn't say that they are back in a big way yet, but the change in direction that their studios have been going in is encouraging. I was really hoping for a Banjo or Battletoads remake announcement this year, but I guess that is not going to happen. But who knows if these games may still be in development?

The mobile studio was disbanded after Viva Pinata DS. For KS2, the entire studio was put into a single team.

With Rare having 4 studios, that may imply that the scope of Sea of Thieves is much smaller than expected.

Also, do they still have the Fazeley Studios team that worked on avatars and production assets? Seems that was quietly shut down.
 

Pudge

Member
HD Blast Corps.

Small budget $15 project to put out between releases, just like Jetpac Refueled back i nthe day. That would be a real treat.
 

daTRUballin

Member
The mobile studio was disbanded after Viva Pinata DS. For KS2, the entire studio was put into a single team.

With Rare having 4 studios, that may imply that the scope of Sea of Thieves is much smaller than expected.

Also, do they still have the Fazeley Studios team that worked on avatars and production assets? Seems that was quietly shut down.

Is Rare's management better now? I keep on reading stories that Rare's internal management has always been pretty bad in general. I remember you stated in another Rare related thread that their management has been bad up to Kinect Sports 2. So does that mean their management has improved since then?

I'm asking you this because I know you're an expert on anything Rare related, and you always post in these topics. :p
 

Shiggy

Member
Is Rare's management better now? I keep on reading stories that Rare's internal management has always been pretty bad in general. I remember you stated in another Rare related thread that their management has been bad up to Kinect Sports 2. So does that mean their management has improved since then?

I'm asking you this because I know you're an expert on anything Rare related, and you always post in these topics. :p

You can draw your own conclusions. The management team that came from within Rare in 2007 was replaced by Microsoft staff around Kinect Sports. Since then, there have been a few changes. Most notably, Scott Henson is at Lionhead now I believe. Not sure how their management is performing now, but since Microsoft took over they at least produce a steady stream of games.
 

Leflus

Member
I think that most of Rare is going to be busy with Sea of Thieves for the forseeable future tbh. It seems interesting to me, but hopefully their next game after SoT won't be an "always online" game.
I was afraid that most of MS' UK efforts were going in that direction (FL, CD3, SoT), but then they announced that Crackdown 3 wouldn't require an online connection. Gives me hope that the future won't be DolanEverythingWasOnline.jpeg.

Here's what I think they should do:

Sea of Thieves (in-house)
Keep a small team on it to work on patches and new content. I assume this is already their plan for the game.

Greenlight smaller (and preferably experimental) games (in-house)
Battletoads and Blast Corps are good suggestions. New IPs would be welcome as well.

Banjo-Nextie (in-house)
It's time. We have asked for this for years. New Banjo (and Conker and Viva Pinata) is one of the most popular suggestions on the Xbox feedback site. They would have to release it close to....

Rare's mascot racer (external dev. Sumo Digital?)
I think it's important that they have the combo of a colourful platformer and colourful racing game at the same time to cross-promote the IPs. The mascot racer could also serve as a vehicle (tee hee) for other MS properties like Splosion Man, Voodoo Vince and Max. Oh, and it would be fun to see Clippy in a game. He'd fit right in with Rare's characters. :p Plus guest characters from third parties like Sonic, Rayman and Yooka & Laylee.

Jet Ski Pro-Am (external dev)

Rip the jet ski minigame out of Kinect Sports Rivals, give it traditional controls and "Rarify" it with some of Rare's more realistically designed characters such as Joanna Dark and Jago. Sell it for 15$.

You can draw your own conclusions. The management team that came from within Rare in 2007 was replaced by Microsoft staff around Kinect Sports. Since then, there have been a few changes. Most notably, Scott Henson is at Lionhead now I believe. Not sure how their management is performing now, but since Microsoft took over they at least produce a steady stream of games.
Scott Henson is a "partner studio manager" nowadays. Lionhead has a new Studio Head.
 

MaxiLive

Member
I'm guessing just Sea of Thieves which has a chance of selling reasonably poorly which will probably mean Rare working on smaller titles/re-releases or avatars :p

Probably more likely some dedicated Hologames for Hololens or whatever tech Microsoft is working on for the next 3+ years.
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
I think it's a bit early to proclaim with fanfare that the king is back. Replay is just a collection of stuff the old Rare (the one that doesn't exist anymore) did, and we really have no idea how Sea of Thieves is gonna turn out.
 

Leflus

Member
I'm guessing just Sea of Thieves which has a chance of selling reasonably poorly which will probably mean Rare working on smaller titles/re-releases or avatars :p

Probably more likely some dedicated Hologames for Hololens or whatever tech Microsoft is working on for the next 3+ years.
Microsoft already has the Hololens Studios umbrella in Redmond with five (or is it six?) different teams. I believe Lift London is experimenting with Hololens as well.

It doesn't sound like more Hololens teams are needed at the moment.
 

Fantastapotamus

Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Maybe we should wait until Rate actually puts out a new good game before we start sayi g that "they are back"?
 
back in a big way.... what are you talking about?
A collection of old games and a new multiplayer game nobody has played that could either be good or bad..
how exactly are they back in a big way?
 

Leflus

Member
back in a big way.... what are you talking about?
Oh come on.

-Rare Replay
-Sea of Thieves
-Rebranding of Rare with a logo that harkens back to the classic logos.
-Official Rare merchandise
-Collaborations like Killer Instinct, Battletoads in Shovel Knight, Conker in Project Spark and Rash in Killer Instinct.

It doesn't mean that everything Rare or Rare/MS' partner studios puts out will be good. It means that Rare and Rare's IPs are being given a lot more attention than they were 3 years ago.
 
I guess I made this thread a year too early with all the good points you guys are making; they haven't release Sea of Thieves yet (so we have no idea if they can make 'big' games anymore) and we have no footage of the likely new Battletoads to judge anything off of.

I'm just happy they are doing something they want to as from 2008/2009-2011/2012, they were forced onto the Kinect and many, many great prototypes were scrapped :(.

Just take a look at Rare's Unseen 64 page; 16+ pages of scrapped ideas, games and concepts from the Xbox and 360 era shut down for various reasons and its a shame they couldn't make the games they really wanted to make.

That is why I'm so happy with them now; they got a new logo showing hope for the studio (very similar to the look from their 90's era), working on big game again in decades (last big project for them was Nuts & Bolts) and celebrating their legacy through Rare Replay.

I might be a bit nostalgic for their good ol' days but I am really looking forward to their future products.

Mods, feel free to lock the thread if this subject is too early to judge.

Why do people accept this revisionist history? All sources point to Rare not being forced down the Kinect rabbit hole, but choosing to go that way. Not being micromanaged by Microsoft, but being given too much creative freedom.

Seriously, put in some sources, some citations - or stop spewing bullshit.

Rare's downfall is on them and them alone.
 
Im almost positive we will be getting a new Battletoads.

Im actually happy theyre doing a New ip in Sea of Thieves. Looks interesting :)

As for games id like to see returned. Kameo 2, Banjo 3, Conker 2, Jet Force Gemini 2, and Viva Pinatas.
 

Azzawon

Member
I get the feeling Rare Replay was done partly so that the newer people working there today could capture some of that old Rare magic when going through their catalogue and bringing it to Xbox One. If anything, it could inspire them to create some great sequels to their classic IPs or even some great new ones.
 
Rare's mascot racer (external dev. Sumo Digital?)
I think it's important that they have the combo of a colourful platformer and colourful racing game at the same time to cross-promote the IPs. The mascot racer could also serve as a vehicle (tee hee) for other MS properties like Splosion Man, Voodoo Vince and Max. Oh, and it would be fun to see Clippy in a game. He'd fit right in with Rare's characters. :p Plus guest characters from third parties like Sonic, Rayman and Yooka & Laylee.

they don't have the cast to pull this off and i doubt there's much of an audience for that on the XB1.
 

Newlove

Member
Perfect Dark is due big time. It's been pretty much 10 years since PDZ came out. And that came out only 5 years after Perfect Dark.

As much as I loved the original Perfect Dark and would like to see another, I don't think they would be in a rush to make a shooter at this stage when they've been revitalized to create or continue other IPs. If I was at Rare, Battletoads, Banjo or new IP would be first choice. Don't get me wrong, Perfect Dark has personality, but personally I think Rare will want to avoid going up against the shooter market for the time being when they have this really fun backlog to explore that is quite unique. Unless of course, they develop Perfect Dark alongside other Rare games which is win-win.
 
I really hope Sea of Thieves and the possible Battletoads game are a step in the right direction. It won't be the golden age Rare we had in the 90's, but I think it'll be a lot better than the Rare we got in the last decade (I did like Kameo, Viva Pinata and Nuts & Bolts though).
 

KingBroly

Banned
I think Microsoft needs a Platformer, and if Rare's going to do one, it should be Conker.

I know people are screaming at me furiously because I didn't say Banjo-Kazooie (Hi guys), but I think Conker, and how Bad Fur Day did it, fits in more with Microsoft's motif of video game making, meaning it's more in line with what you get out of a Halo, Gears or Killer Instinct.

I think the ship has unfortunately set sail on Banjo-Kazooie from Microsoft after the Nuts and Bolts experiment that was baffling, to say the least.
 
they don't have the cast to pull this off and i doubt there's much of an audience for that on the XB1.

A bit outside-the-box here, but why not make it multiplat?

It'll sell more (as far as I'm aware, SEGA's All Stars Racing games did fine), and could act as a little bit of a trojan horse. Get people playing as Master Chief, Conker, Jago, Rash, Cuphead, Happy Wars Guy, Sabrewulf, Banjo-Kazooie, Ori, Alan Wake, Marcus Fenix. Fable Hero, Reaver and co., Microsoft properties only. Get them attached to the characters, then use that to fuel hype for future releases.

Only downside is you're literally plugging a gap in a competitor's lineup - but anyone that really wants a kart racer will go for Mario Kart every time anyway.
 

Leflus

Member
Why do people accept this revisionist history? All sources point to Rare not being forced down the Kinect rabbit hole, but choosing to go that way. Not being micromanaged by Microsoft, but being given too much creative freedom.

Seriously, put in some sources, some citations - or stop spewing bullshit.

Rare's downfall is on them and them alone.
I agree that MS isn't the only cause of Rare's "downfall", but isn't this a bit revisionist as well? It's not like MS is completely innocent. We've heard stories about MS wanting Rare to only work on family friendly games, for instance. The fact that they made a MS dude the new head of the studio for a few years reeks of interference as well.

Then there's the stuff that was out of both MS and Rare's hands: Rising dev costs.
Conker's Bad Fur Day was a retail title that was made by less than 20 people. Can you imagine how much manpower it would require to make a modern AAA Conker game?

they don't have the cast to pull this off and i doubt there's much of an audience for that on the XB1.
I disagree.

Banjo-Kazooie characters:
-Banjo & Kazooie
-Gruntilda
-Tooty
-Bottles
-Klungo
-Mumbo-Jumbo
-Humba-Wumba
-King Jingaling
-Lord of Games

Other Rare characters:
-Rash
-Conker
-Kameo
-Mr. Pants
-Sabreman
-Horstachio
-Avatars (male/female)

Microsoft guest characters:
-Voodoo Vince
-Blinx
-Steve from Minecraft
-Max
-Splosion Man/Ms. Splosion Man
-Maw
-Ori
-Clippy

Third party guest characters:
-Sonic
-Rayman
-Castle Crashers knight
-Yooka & Laylee

It could easily work in my opinion. They could even add in a bunch of other characters from the non-BK series (Berri, Tediz, more pinatas, etc.).
 
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